The Crucified Life

[stunnedbygrace]

Hi stunnedbygrace,

I'd have to say, it is not you who lusts, the flesh does that, and you are the spirit child of God. The new creation desires the things of God.

It is by faith in Christ that we enter into the grace in which we stand. It is yours for the believing.

Much love!

The apostle did say something that I never quite grasp when I read it, but it sort of agrees with you...he said something like, when he does what he doesn't want to do, he is agreeing with God, so then it is not him sinning but sin in him.

I agree it is by trust that we enter in. It is by trust that He transforms us. Everything is by trust.

 

[marks]

The apostle did say something that I never quite grasp when I read it, but it sort of agrees with you...he said something like, when he does what he doesn't want to do, he is agreeing with God, so then it is not him sinning but sin in him.

I agree it is by trust that we enter in. It is by trust that He transforms us. Everything is by trust.

Hi SBG,

He said, therefore it is no longer I that sin, but sin that lives in me. No longer me. I don't sin. The flesh - I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh - my flesh sins, but I do not.

Therefore there is no condemnation.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And I normally ignore you for your false doctrines, and your attempts at being super-spiritual while abandoning fundamental Bible truths.

Getting back to SBG, she was trying to be super-spiritual with marks, instead of addressing her own issues.

If we all must be perfect in every way before we speak with each other about the way, you better shut up!

 

[marks]

I agree it is by trust that we enter in. It is by trust that He transforms us. Everything is by trust.

What is trust if not the reliance upon a certain truth? I rely on this. I am not condemned, being in Christ. I am a new creation, being in Christ. My flesh has been made powerless, being in Christ.

I'm under no obligation to do what my flesh wants. I'm the one that lives forever, not the man of flesh, born from Adam.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

And I normally ignore you for your false doctrines, and your attempts at being super-spiritual while abandoning fundamental Bible truths.

Getting back to SBG, she was trying to be super-spiritual with marks, instead of addressing her own issues.

Anything over your head...which is anything spiritual...seems super-spiritual to you. It's like never-never land to you. But your honesty is so lacking in that you don't understand half or more of what Paul is saying. But your religious posturing compels you to judge others who do. Paul is not talking about religious bible doctrines to believe in...but a life lived in the love of Christ. That's something that is beyond your understanding at this time.

Look at what the common witness of Christ and His apostles is...

Be filled with love....are you filled with love?

Be gentle and kind to others...would people say this describes you and your behaviour on this forum?

Be patient with others...do your posts show any patience?

And that is just attitude never mind actual understanding of God's ways...

And what I teach is exactly biblical and of the Spirit. Talk to God about it...seriously. You don't know what you really are doing. You don't know yourself.

 

[marks]

The apostle did say something that I never quite grasp when I read it, but it sort of agrees with you...he said something like, when he does what he doesn't want to do, he is agreeing with God, so then it is not him sinning but sin in him.

I really think a good understanding of this part of Scripture is very important.

In Romans 7 God teaches us about how the Law, rather than motivating us to good works, actually empowers sin, since the Law is given to the unlawful, that is, the man of flesh, the Adamic creation, and that man of sin responds with disobedience.

Then He goes on to explain how we are really two people, one who agrees with God's Law, and one who does not. These are different, and the sins are by the one who disagrees, not the one who agrees. So with the mind, I serve the law of God, and with the flesh, the law of sin.

The body of flesh will always and only sin. The new creation will always and only do righteousness. You are the new creation. If you do not control your body, it will do the same sins it always has, and think them in thougts that sound like yours but they aren't.

You can reject them as being from the flesh that is made powerless, and continue to walk in the Spirit.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I really think a good understanding of this part of Scripture is very important.

In Romans 7 God teaches us about how the Law, rather than motivating us to good works, actually empowers sin, since the Law is given to the unlawful, that is, the man of flesh, the Adamic creation, and that man of sin responds with disobedience.

Then He goes on to explain how we are really two people, one who agrees with God's Law, and one who does not. These are different, and the sins are by the one who disagrees, not the one who agrees. So with the mind, I serve the law of God, and with the flesh, the law of sin.

The body of flesh will always and only sin. The new creation will always and only do righteousness. You are the new creation. If you do not control your body, it will do the same sins it always has, and think them in thougts that sound like yours but they aren't.

You can reject them as being from the flesh that is made powerless, and continue to walk in the Spirit.

Much love!

I don't know mark, this sounds like a mind over matter idea to me. And that didn't work for me for years. The only way I became any better - humbler, gentler, more forgiving, (which IS control over our flesh) was to give up trying and trust God to do what He promised.

 

[marks]

I don't know mark, this sounds like a mind over matter idea to me. And that didn't work for me for years. The only way I became any better - humbler, gentler, more forgiving, (which IS control over our flesh) was to give up trying and trust God to do what He promised.

We're saying the same thing.

But here it is in Scripture:

2 Corinthians 3
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


Romans 6
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Soma = body - body of sin; be destroyed = nullified, rendered powerless;

The body of sin has no power over us. Having died in Christ we are freed from sin. The life we now live we live unto God, having died to sin. Freed from sin.

Now we can examine every thought that comes into our heads and compare it to the Bible, and reject any that don't conform. Although the longer one does this, the better one gets at early recognition, and better at believing this is true.

It is by faith in Jesus that we enter into the grace in which we stand.

By believing what Jesus did is enough that we enter into the grace in which we stand.

By believing what Jesus did is enought that we receive the benefit of His gift in causing us to remain standing even when the flesh/world/devil tries to knock us down.

In believing this is true, that we can reject every evil thing, it is true in our lives.

If we do not believe, we do not do. If we believe, we do. And in doing, God does what He promised. And we live with His nature.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I never said you were deluded or foolish. If nothing we've talked about or discussed or said has helped you in any way, that just kind of highlights my point that I didn't think you would understand yet what we were talking about.

We aren't/weren't just making up stories, mark. We were talking about a very real struggle we've been through.

And for you to think we've been awful to you when we love you, I just...nothing I can say about that really. I mean I'm sorry you feel that way, but I honestly don't know what to say.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That sounds like a really awful childhood. But God is good.

But Mark, I just need to have the freedom to talk with the brothers and sisters who understand me and who God leads the same way as me. We weren't having a doctrinal discussion when you entered. I get that it made you uncomfortable and that you prefer a different kind of conversation, but you can't take away my freedom by always entering whatever thread epi is in to argue with him and keep him from helping and encouraging those of us He can. We get that you disagree with him. We do not disagree with him. What he says resonates deeply with us because it has been our experience and our struggle. ( although, let me just say epi is sometimes wrong, because he's Canadian, how could he not be???)

 

[Episkopos]

I think the difficulty with some here is that we are comparing what is good with what is perfect. There is a clash there. With the idea that there is more than just good.

It's like this idea that we can get progressively crucified...like a finger at a time. But a partially crucified person is just screaming in pain. God is not interested in torturing us. Crucifixion must be to death...a full death. THEN we enter what is perfect.

So it is always death and life...not a partial death and a partial life. I'm speaking here of perfection into HIS life.

But when we are speaking of learning to forsake ourselves...THAT is a partial gradual thing. That is good...although it is by our own strength with a little help here and there from God who wants to encourage us.

So then most people will only ever know the good and fully misunderstand what perfection in Christ is. That's the issue at certain times.

I will say that when I am not walking in HIS perfection...then I seek out the good. (while still praying to be accepted back into His perfection)

The issue then, as I've said many times here, is the contrast between purity and maturity.

We can be mature in our own level of purity. Or we can learn to be mature at His level of purity (learning to remain in His presence)

With our friend marks...he doesn't yet understand the perfect...and the reading comprehension is lacking as well in response to my posts.

A careful reading will make my posts clear enough indeed. :)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hi SBG,

He said, therefore it is no longer I that sin, but sin that lives in me. No longer me. I don't sin. The flesh - I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh - my flesh sins, but I do not.

Therefore there is no condemnation.

Much love!

I've become aware of something over the past year or so. People who've had a traumatic childhood or even great trauma as an adult, cannot understand the way I am led and I cannot totally understand the way they are led. I can sometimes see that they and I are almost saying the same thing but in a different way, but other times, we really can't connect, except to love one another.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That's OK. My heart yearns so much that you could find the freedom I've received. But that is not to be right now.

Much love!

Do you think, possibly, that what I have talked about could actually be freedom too? You may not be as aware of Him working in you as I am and you may not have had my same exact struggle to remain in trust, but I can testify, and have in here, that I am in much peace and rest now, even though a had a lot of turbulence getting there.

 

[Episkopos]

Then I've gotten the wrong idea from what you've said about it being so hard to walk in the Spirit.

I'm simply here to say it's not that way, and the only struggle is really with unbelief. Because greater is He Who is in you.

The flesh may push hard at us, but that doesn't matter.

Anyway, this will be enough.

I love you.

Do you have a testimony about the crucified life? This is the right thread for it.

Please share.

We are to always be ready to communicate what the Lord is doing in our lives after all...for the sake of encouraging others into the same walk.

Like...how much time do you spend in the Spirit compared with how much out of the Spirit. What do you do in the Spirit (examples) how do you cope when not in the Spirit (examples) IOW.

Peace

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Then I've gotten the wrong idea from what you've said about it being so hard to walk in the Spirit.

I'm simply here to say it's not that way, and the only struggle is really with unbelief. Because greater is He Who is in you.

The flesh may push hard at us, but that doesn't matter.

Anyway, this will be enough.

I love you.

That's not exactly what I've said or meant. Walking in the Spirit is not hard. Nothing could be easier, really.

I agree that my issues, the reason I struggled for so long, and could not walk in the Spirit for any length of time, all came down to a lack of trust. (Odd, huh? If anything, it seems to me that you would have had a rougher and harder time struggling to remain in trust than me given your awful and abusive childhood, but the opposite seems to be true and you don't have the trust issues with God that I've had, even to the point that you can't understand or relate to me on it. We are odd and incongruous creatures!

 

[Episkopos]

There is a kind of believer out there (and here) who choose to see everything with positivity...even impossible things for the flesh are claimed positively by the flesh.

So then if you ask a person if they walk in the Spirit...they will say...All the time...it's easy! But really these have no testimony of a living Jesus Christ...because it is by choice to see regular life as a spiritual walk. It's just based on positive thinking. There are many authors that relate to how we can live through life positively AND claim to be walking in the Spirit. How to get the most out of YOUR life...the power of positive thinking.

But this is as false as can be...and dangerous to themselves and to others.

But it is easy to see through the facade these try to hide their true selves behind. There is just smiles and lots of "love" references...but nothing of any depth. When asked to describe their walk they will just say..."fantastic"...like any salesperson would do. And that's what this is...sales and salesmanship. The big lie.

So when I offer one of these salespeople to testify of the crucified life and their experience of the heavenly realm...you get a blank stare. :cool:...and no response. There's nothing real there.

 

[Episkopos]

That sounds like a really awful childhood. But God is good.

But Mark, I just need to have the freedom to talk with the brothers and sisters who understand me and who God leads the same way as me. We weren't having a doctrinal discussion when you entered. I get that it made you uncomfortable and that you prefer a different kind of conversation, but you can't take away my freedom by always entering whatever thread epi is in to argue with him and keep him from helping and encouraging those of us He can. We get that you disagree with him. We do not disagree with him. What he says resonates deeply with us because it has been our experience and our struggle. ( although, let me just say epi is sometimes wrong, because he's Canadian, how could he not be???)

Have you any experience with positivism? (I think I have come across every kind of person in my time.) A positivist thinks he/she is always in the Spirit...always abiding...because of a positive attitude. As in..if you believe it hard enough..it's real. So the idea of reckoning yourself as dead in Christ....is taken to mean that if you think you are then you will be. Through the power of positive thinking.

If somebody then says we go in and out of the Spirit to them...this is seen not as an actual walk in a heavenly place...but just not believing hard enough in positivity all the time. The remedy? Go to God? NO! Just be more positive!

That's what mark exhibits and why he "disagrees" with anything that has any truth or reality to it beyond what flesh can promote and support.

There is another poster just like him here....but I won't expose him here. He keeps to his own posts. Harder to detect in that way.

But these can learn...although I have not seen this happen in the real world. Such as these back away after a short while. They leave because they are not of us. Sad to say.

Honesty is always the best policy. I wish these would just come clean and say...I choose to ignore your negativism!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Do you remember joannieMarie? That sounds a bit like a description of her. She was always about "once you know who you are..."

She was a little bit spooky to me, like...brainwashed.

 

[Episkopos]

Do you remember joannieMarie? That sounds a bit like a description of her. She was always about "once you know who you are..."

She was a little bit spooky to me, like...brainwashed.

That's why these back off after a while...unless they be exposed as being in the flesh even as they say how wonderful it is to be in the Spirit. Brainwashed is the right word. There's a LOT of false ministry out there.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I always just give someone the benefit of the doubt and think they might be young. Unless they are just viciously mean. The viciously mean ones mostly seem to think there is no Holy Spirit for us, only scripture. The oddest thing about them is that they accuse others of meanness and arrogance. They are the ones I can literally see are wolves. Their behavior has no love, not for a brother and not for an unbeliever.