The date of the destruction of Israel and the USA!

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Ronald D Milam

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Hello, I have found out at what time approximately Israel and the USA will perish together. I am confident that Babylon the Great from Revelation is Israel and that the USA will be influenced by Israel. God wants and will destroy Israel according to Revelation. But when will this happen? I asked myself that question and after hours of research I am sure I have figured out the timing.
This is totally false, you do not understand Prophecy it seems. Zech. 13:8-9 says that 1/3 of the Jews will repent whilst 2/3 refuse to repent and will perish. This 1/3 will be roughly 3.5-5 million Jews. They flee to the Petra/Bozrah area where God Himself protects them for 1260 days, they are the "144,000" CODE, they are the 7000 CODE God has saved unto Himself. Jesus will set up a 1000 year Kingdom Age Reign in Jerusalem.

You literally know nothing about Prophechy my friend, do not embarrass yourself, and show yourself worthy of Christ Jesus.
 
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David in NJ

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Hello, I have found out at what time approximately Israel and the USA will perish together. I am confident that Babylon the Great from Revelation is Israel and that the USA will be influenced by Israel. God wants and will destroy Israel according to Revelation. But when will this happen? I asked myself that question and after hours of research I am sure I have figured out the timing.

Let's start with the month, on which month will their downfall come? To find out, I analyzed God's judgments on Israel, I asked myself at which times calamities happened to Israel and if there might be a connection and I noticed something very interesting. Great disasters of Israel always happened on the same month, on the Hebrew month Av (July-Aug). These disasters took place on the month of Av: The first destruction of Jerusalem and the First Temple (586 BC), the second destruction of Jerusalem and the Second Temple (70 AD), the crushing of the Bar Kohba revolt and the destruction of Betar (135 AD), and the start of the Holocaust (1941 AD). There were other calamities that took place on this month but these I consider the worst. No one can tell me that it is just a coincidence that disaster always befalls Israel exactly on this month. Therefore, I am sure that the final destruction of Israel as prophesied in Revelation will take place on a hot summer, on the month of Av, which corresponds to the months of July and August in the Gregorian calendar.

Now the year, on which year is the fall? I believe in the theory that Jesus will return 2000 years after his ascension, there are references to this theory in the Bible and books have been written about it. It makes sense to me. So if we assume that Jesus died in 30 AD, then it means that Jesus will return in 2030 at the latest. With this information we can limit the destruction of Israel. If Jesus returns in 2030, it means that Israel's fall must happen before 2030, because Revelation makes it clear that this event will take place before Jesus' arrival.

In conclusion, this means that the fall of Israel and the USA will happen between 2023 and 2030 in the summer month of Av (July-Aug).

So we are nearing the destruction of Babylon the Great, which has caused much disaster in the world, murdered the prophets and Christ, poisoned the world with its music and film industry, and committed other atrocities. God will destroy these two countries and it will be a mighty destruction.

But through whom will God destroy Babylon? The Bible says it will be the Muslims. The Antichrist is a Muslim and his kingdom is Islamic. Through their hands, God will bring justice to the Christians. God says we should rejoice at her downfall.
i believe you have some good points here concerning the sins of Israel and the USA.

However, many nations have been committing atrocities and are in collusion with the Babylonian Harlot.

USA is in a very bad place for some time now and it is getting far worse, same with Israel and SAME with most of the world.

God will definitely judge according to His Complete Knowledge of the hearts of men = worldwide.
 
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Gandalf-

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Part Five : So we have gone thru all that is false and demonic about the RCC from it's False Pedigree as per Galatians 2:7-8, thru to it's demonic doctrines of how it falsely defines what is a saint, to committing acts of Necromancy thru praying to it's false alleged dead saints, to the false immaculate conception and false doctrine of the Assumption of Mary, to again the nothing but 100% Blasphemous Doctrine of Praying To Mary, For Any Reason At All, to the Clearly Antichrist Doctrines Of Making Mary The Ark Of The Covenant, To Making Mary Thus .... The Queen Of Heaven, To Making Mary again the Co-Redemptrix, to the Antichrist And The Clearly Damnable Doctrine Of Transubstantiation, etc.., etc.., etc..,

And now we will only briefly mention the Demonic
Inquisition, in all of it's forms, and manifestations, on how Christian it was to Torture and Murder all of those people, whether they were innocent, or not. There is No Excuse For The RCC At All For Any Of Their Lying Reasons Whatsoever. Remember Galatians 2:7-8 Where God Never Made Peter The First Poe, Or Any Pope At All.

The RCC Is Nothing But A Demonic Lie. And Let Us Not Forget the Over 1 Million Children Worldwide The Roman Catholic Church Has Molested. The Power Of The RCC Tries Still To Cover This Up, So One Has To Research Per Country, Where The Number Of RCC Child Molestation Cases In France Alone Is Just Over 333,000 Known Cases So Far.

So The RCC Has Molested Over 1 Million Children Worldwide As Is Known So Far, And Is Known To have Paid Out Settlements Totaling $4 Billion Dollars As Is Known So Far. But What Is Worst Of All, Is Since Most Of Those Cases Were homosexual Child Molestations, That Many Of those Boys Grew Up Really Messed Up. And Mixed Guilty Over What Happened To them, That We Know More Than A Few Have Commited Suicide Over This, And We Just Don't Know How Many?



please allow me time to complete / I need to sleep for a bit
 
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David in NJ

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Part Five : So we have gone thru all that is false and demonic about the RCC from it's False Pedigree as per Galatians 2:7-8, thru to it's demonic doctrines of how it falsely defines what is a saint, to committing acts of Necromancy thru praying to it's false alleged dead saints, to the false immaculate conception and false doctrine of the Assumption of Mary, to again the nothing but 100% Blasphemous Doctrine of Praying To Mary, For Any Reason At All, to the Clearly Antichrist Doctrines Of Making Mary The Ark Of The Covenant, To Making Mary Thus .... The Queen Of Heaven, To Making Mary again the Co-Redemptrix, to the Antichrist And The Clearly Damnable Doctrine Of Transubstantiation, etc.., etc.., etc..,

And now we will only briefly mention the Demonic
Inquisition, in all of it's forms, and manifestations, on how Christian it was to Torture and Murder all of those people, whether they were innocent, or not. There is No Excuse For The RCC At All For Any Of Their Lying Reasons Whatsoever. Remember Galatians 2:7-8 Where God Never Made Peter The First Poe, Or Any Pope At All.

The RCC Is Nothing But A Demonic Lie. And Let Us Not Forget the Over 1 Million Children Worldwide The Roman Catholic Church Has Molested. The Power Of The RCC Tries Still To Cover This Up, So One Has To Research Per Country, Where The Number Of RCC Child Molestation Cases In France Alone Is Just Over 333,000 Known Cases So Far.

So The RCC Has Molested Over 1 Million Children Worldwide As Is Known So Far, And Is Known To have Paid Out Settlements Totaling $4 Billion Dollars As Is Known So Far. But What Is Worst Of All, Is Since Most Of Those Cases Were homosexual Child Molestations, That Many Of those Boys Grew Up Really Messed Up. And Mixed Guilty Over What Happened To them, That We Know More Than A Few Have Commited Suicide Over This, And We Just Don't Know How Many?



please allow me time to complete
Excellent Post
 
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The Light

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This is totally false, you do not understand Prophecy it seems. Zech. 13:8-9 says that 1/3 of the Jews will repent whilst 2/3 refuse to repent and will perish. This 1/3 will be roughly 3.5-5 million Jews. They flee to the Petra/Bozrah area where God Himself protects them for 1260 days, they are the "144,000" CODE, they are the 7000 CODE God has saved unto Himself. Jesus will set up a 1000 year Kingdom Age Reign in Jerusalem.

You literally know nothing about Prophechy my friend, do not embarrass yourself, and show yourself worthy of Christ Jesus.
Instead of a private interpretation of a 144,000 CODE, why not use the actual interpretation that is already provided. The 144,000 are first fruits, meaning there is a coming harvest of the 12 tribes. It's simple. We don't need to make anything up. The answer is already given. :cool:
 

Ronald D Milam

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Instead of a private interpretation of a 144,000 CODE, why not use the actual interpretation that is already provided. The 144,000 are first fruits, meaning there is a coming harvest of the 12 tribes. It's simple. We don't need to make anything up. The answer is already given. :cool:
They are First-fruits, they are the First-fruits of the Fathers Bride, you do understand the Three Harvests right? The Barley, the Wheat and the Grapes. Barley can be sifted without being crushed, thus the Barley is ready for Harvesting and is harvested first, the Church is ready for harvesting, Israel (the Wheat) is not ready, it not only comes in after the Barley but it needs to be CRUSHED before it can be sifted. As a matter of fact we get our English word for tribulation from a Greek word used to describe a machine that crushes wheat called the Tribulum, did you know that? So, Israel has First-fruits just like Wheat has FIRST-FRUITS, and so does the Barley. The Grapes are representing the Wicked, they are placed in the Wine-press of God's Wrath.

I don't need to have a private interpretation, I am just called unto Prophecy it seems and you are not. It amazes me at the so called message board warriors who really think they know prophecy but don't. Across three or more boards the only thin g you get correct is the Pre Trib Rapture. Check yourself, and start listening. So as I have told you before, you can UNDERSTAND the 10 Virgin Brides = the COMPLETE Church, and are not all Female Virgins, but you can't understand the 144,000 is a CODE ALSO !!

That is on you.
 

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The RCC is not Babylon. Babylon is Israel and no other. The RCC didn't kill the prophets and Christ. And the RCC isn't the most powerful in the world. Israel has killed the prophets and Christ and is the most powerful nation of the world. It is Zionsim that causes trouble in the world. But of course, people who have not the Holy Spirit don't believe me, they didn't believe Christ and Paul either.
 

David in NJ

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The RCC is not Babylon. Babylon is Israel and no other. The RCC didn't kill the prophets and Christ. And the RCC isn't the most powerful in the world. Israel has killed the prophets and Christ and is the most powerful nation of the world. It is Zionsim that causes trouble in the world. But of course, people who have not the Holy Spirit don't believe me, they didn't believe Christ and Paul either.
Babylon clothed herself with purple, scarlet and gold and renamed herself as "the queen of heaven" = RCC

Israel committed harlotries with Babylon and that is why she was judged by Babylon and why God, again, will gather the nations against her.

Israel will be judged as the Prophet Zechariah declared.

RCC will burn with fire as the LORD Jesus Christ has declared = every bit that she deserves, along with the kings of the earth who commit fornication with her.

If you were to believe the Apostles Peter, Paul and John you would run from RCC - fast as you can!
 
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user-1

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Babylon clothed herself with purple, scarlet and gold and renamed herself as "the queen of heaven" = RCC

Israel committed harlotries with Babylon and that is why she was judged by Babylon and why God, again, will gather the nations against her.

Israel will be judged as the Prophet Zechariah declared.

RCC will burn with fire as the LORD Jesus Christ has declared = every bit that she deserves, along with the kings of the earth who commit fornication with her.

If you were to believe the Apostles Peter, Paul and John you would run from RCC - fast as you can!
Who said I am Catholic? I am not.

That Babylon is calling herself Queen means that she is rich and powerful. And who is the most powerful nation in the world? USA/Israel.

The Catholic Church is like the rest of the world evil, but she isn't Babylon. Babylon is only Israel.

Babylon has killed Christ and the prophets (Rev 11:8, 18:24). Now who killed Christ and the prophets? Let the Bible answer:

1 Thess 2:14-16
The Jews killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and persecuted us. They displease God and are hostile to everyone.

But I say again, if you don't have the Holy Spirit you don't understand.
 

The Light

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They are First-fruits, they are the First-fruits of the Fathers Bride,
They are first fruits of the second bride. Jacob had two brides, Leah, and the chosen bride Rachel.

you do understand the Three Harvests right? The Barley, the Wheat and the Grapes. Barley can be sifted without being crushed, thus the Barley is ready for Harvesting and is harvested first, the Church is ready for harvesting,
The barley harvest is the dead in Christ. The alive Church does not precede the dead in Christ. After the barley harvest Christ will return for the wheat harvest and brings the dead in Christ with Him.

1 Thes 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Israel (the Wheat) is not ready, it not only comes in after the Barley but it needs to be CRUSHED before it can be sifted.
Israel is the figs of the fruit harvest. The grain is harvested first and then the fruit. Grain harvest occurs in the spring and summer and the fruit harvest is in the fall.

As a matter of fact we get our English word for tribulation from a Greek word used to describe a machine that crushes wheat called the Tribulum, did you know that?
Sure. I've watched Perry Stone. He likes to point that out.

So, Israel has First-fruits just like Wheat has FIRST-FRUITS, and so does the Barley. The Grapes are representing the Wicked, they are placed in the Wine-press of God's Wrath.
The fruit harvest is for Israel. God saw the fathers of the Jews as the FIRST FRUITS of the first harvest, but they served other Gods. The Gentiles will be the first harvest.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The fig tree has two harvests. There will be two raptures.

I don't need to have a private interpretation, I am just called unto Prophecy it seems and you are not. It amazes me at the so called message board warriors who really think they know prophecy but don't. Across three or more boards the only thin g you get correct is the Pre Trib Rapture. Check yourself, and start listening. So as I have told you before, you can UNDERSTAND the 10 Virgin Brides = the COMPLETE Church, and are not all Female Virgins, but you can't understand the 144,000 is a CODE ALSO !!
The fact that the fathers of the Jews WOULD NOT BE the first ripe of the first harvest means that they were NOT THE FIRST FRUITS of the first harvest. This is the reason there are 144,000 first fruits which comes AFTER the Church is raptured. Here is the fruit harvest that occurs at the sixth seal.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

We see the twelve tribes across the earth are raptured as they are singing the song of Moses.

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

There are two raptures. One for the Church which occurs before the seals are opened and one for the 12 tribes across the earth which occurs before the wrath of God.

Only the nation of Israel, those that flee to a place of protection, and unbelievers will be on earth during the wrath of God.
 

Ronald D Milam

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They are first fruits of the second bride. Jacob had two brides, Leah, and the chosen bride Rachel.
No, God Married Israel during Old Testament Times (pre Jesus Christ) and Jesus will marry us in Rev. 19, or just after the Rapture of the Church. Thus the 144,000 are the First-fruits of the Kingdom Age. We the Church are the first-fruits of the Church Age. No one goes to heaven begore the Rapture, save Elijah & Moses and maybe a couple others here or there.

The barley harvest is the dead in Christ. The alive Church does not precede the dead in Christ. After the barley harvest Christ will return for the wheat harvest and brings the dead in Christ with Him.
The Church are all Harvested at the exact same time. No people go to heaven before the Rapture, that is why the Dead in Christ arise(as Spirit Men) and we are CHANGED (from Flesh men into Spirit men) so that we can thus enter Heaven because no flesh and blood (sin stained flesh) can enter heaven. The Wheat is Israel, remember the Parable of the Wheat & Tares? Jesus told Israel (Wheat) they would remain on earth with the tares until the VERY END !! Whereas we the Church go to be with the Lord BEFORE the end or 70th week comes. Jesus Harvests the Wheat into his Fathers barn.

Israel is the figs of the fruit harvest. The grain is harvested first and then the fruit. Grain harvest occurs in the spring and summer and the fruit harvest is in the fall.
In the Three Harvest Jesus presents Israel as the Wheat, those who have to go through the tribulation before they can be sifted. Jesus displays the Three Harvests for all to see in The Harvest Chapter (Rev. 14). We see the Wheat awaits Jesus return where they can rule with Jesus during the Kingdom Age, BUT even though they are shown as the 144,000 awaiting in Jerusalem, the are actually awaiting in the Petra/Bozrah area, they are shown in Jerusalem because Jesus rules from Jerusalem with his 3.5-5 million brothers and sisters from Jerusalem for 1000 years. Then we get the Wicked Grapes in verses 17-20, BUT....we also get a FLACHBACK to the Pre Trib Raptured Church in verse 14. Jesus from upon a cloud harvests the Church.

There are Three Harvests that have celebrated Festivals, that is how Jesus is using these to relay a message via the Three different Harvests Festivals.

Sure. I've watched Perry Stone. He likes to point that out.
Never really watch him, but kudos unto him then.

The fruit harvest is for Israel. God saw the fathers of the Jews as the FIRST FRUITS of the first harvest, but they served other Gods. The Gentiles will be the first harvest.
We do not care what the ORIGINAL PURPOSE WAS, when Jesus uses the Three Harvest Festivals to show how 1.) The Church is Harvested before anyone 2.) The Wheat or Israel is the Fathers Harvest, Jesus rules with his brothers from Jerusalem during the Kingdom Age. 3.) The Wicked are placed in the Wine-press of God's Wrath, so we get all three.

Now, the Grape Harvest was also about Israel, but Jesus is using it here to show God's JUDGMENTS against the Wicked men of all the earth. Rev. 14 has all three harvests in it.

The fig tree has two harvests. There will be two raptures.
This has no relevance when Jesus is speaking about the Three Harvest Festivals. Barley, Wheat and Grapes

The fact that the fathers of the Jews WOULD NOT BE the first ripe of the first harvest means that they were NOT THE FIRST FRUITS of the first harvest. This is the reason there are 144,000 first fruits which comes AFTER the Church is raptured. Here is the fruit harvest that occurs at the sixth seal.
True, but there are THREE HARVEST FESTIVALS Jesus is telling us about. Not one. The 144,000 are of the Wheat Harvest, which comes AFTER the Barley Harvest. The 6th Seal DOES NOTHING, no Seals do anything, they are only Prophetic in nature.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
The Wicked are KILLED HERE. It is the same as the TARES being BOUND and SAVED for fire later on.

We see the twelve tribes across the earth are raptured as they are singing the song of Moses.

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

There are two raptures. One for the Church which occurs before the seals are opened and one for the 12 tribes across the earth which occurs before the wrath of God.

Only the nation of Israel, those that flee to a place of protection, and unbelievers will be on earth during the wrath of God.
This is simply telling us of the new birth of Israel, we are shown the Song of their Hearts. They are not in Heaven, how can Jesus rule from Jerusalem if the are all Raptured to heaven? You are taking prose and not realizing that it is merely prose.
 

The Light

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No, God Married Israel during Old Testament Times (pre Jesus Christ) and Jesus will marry us in Rev. 19, or just after the Rapture of the Church.
The Church is raptured BEFORE the seals are opened. The marriage supper of Revelation 19 takes place during the 1 year wrath of God. It is the great multitude that is at the marriage supper. The great multitude includes the dead in Christ, the alive believers that are raptured and the Jews that are raptured at the 6th seal, which I already showed you are singing the song of Moses.

Revelation 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Thus the 144,000 are the First-fruits of the Kingdom Age. We the Church are the first-fruits of the Church Age. No one goes to heaven begore the Rapture, save Elijah & Moses and maybe a couple others here or there.
The 144,000 are exactly what the Word says they are. The are the 1st fruits of the harvest of the 12 tribes across the earth........the seed of the woman, Israel.
The Church are all Harvested at the exact same time. No people go to heaven before the Rapture, that is why the Dead in Christ arise(as Spirit Men) and we are CHANGED (from Flesh men into Spirit men) so that we can thus enter Heaven because no flesh and blood (sin stained flesh) can enter heaven.
No sir, they are not harvested at the same time. This is of course widely accepted, though impossible. Read what the Word says.

Here we see the dead in Christ rise first.

1 Thes 4

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Here we see that the ALIVE REMAIN UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD. How can the alive remain unto the coming of the Lord if He comes for the dead at the same time He comes for the alive? That would make no sense at all.

1 Thes 4

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Here we are told not to be ignorant about the Lord bringing the dead with Him when He comes for the alive.

1 Thes 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

How can what you say be correct? It makes no sense at all. And yet most of the world would agree with what you are saying and few would agree with me. That said, think about it. What I'm saying is the only way it agrees with what Paul says.
 

The Light

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The Wheat is Israel, remember the Parable of the Wheat & Tares? Jesus told Israel (Wheat) they would remain on earth with the tares until the VERY END !! Whereas we the Church go to be with the Lord BEFORE the end or 70th week comes. Jesus Harvests the Wheat into his Fathers barn.
The wheat is the alive Church that remains until the coming of the Lord. The dead in Christ is the barley harvest.
In the Three Harvest Jesus presents Israel as the Wheat, those who have to go through the tribulation before they can be sifted
The dead in Christ is the barley harvest. The alive that remain is the wheat harvest. The barley and wheat are the grain harvest and make up the Church. The twelve tribes, the seed of the woman are caught up at the sixth seal which happens at the fall fruit harvest.

Jesus displays the Three Harvests for all to see in The Harvest Chapter (Rev. 14).
No sir. The harvest in Revelation 14 occurs at the sixth seal. IT IS THE COMING OF JESUS IN MATTHEW 24......before the 1-year wrath of God.

This is the gathering from heaven and earth.
Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The Church is gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes, the seed of the woman are gathered from the earth.
We see the Wheat awaits Jesus return where they can rule with Jesus during the Kingdom Age, BUT even though they are shown as the 144,000 awaiting in Jerusalem, the are actually awaiting in the Petra/Bozrah area, they are shown in Jerusalem because Jesus rules from Jerusalem with his 3.5-5 million brothers and sisters from Jerusalem for 1000 years.
The 144,000 are first fruits. This means there will be a harvest. The harvest of the 12 tribes occurs at the 6th seal. This is what you see in Revelation 14 which is why they are singing the song of Moses.

If I told you I went out to field and grabbed the first fruits of the harvest, these would be the first ripe of that harvest. If you saw that the first fruits were pumpkins you would know that the harvest will be pumpkins. Since the 1st fruits, the 144,000 are of the 12 tribes, you know that the harvest is of the 12 tribes.

Then we get the Wicked Grapes in verses 17-20, BUT....we also get a FLACHBACK to the Pre Trib Raptured Church in verse 14. Jesus from upon a cloud harvests the Church.
The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is not a flashback of the pretrib rapture. It is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 which occurs immediately after the tribulation.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This occurs at the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
2 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the seals. Wrath is over at the 7th tumpet. Then you start back in the seals. The 1st 5 seals are the tribulation. Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the fruit harvest which is why you see grapes being tossed into the wrath of God. Then you get another view of the wrath of God.


There are Three Harvests that have celebrated Festivals,
Exactly
We do not care what the ORIGINAL PURPOSE WAS, when Jesus uses the Three Harvest Festivals to show how 1.) The Church is Harvested before anyone 2.) The Wheat or Israel is the Fathers Harvest, Jesus rules with his brothers from Jerusalem during the Kingdom Age. 3.) The Wicked are placed in the Wine-press of God's Wrath, so we get all three.
The dead in Christ rise first and go to heaven. The alive that remain will meet the Lord in the air along with the dead that now have new bodies. The alive Chruch is the wheat harvest. The fruit harvest is in the fall. The grain harvests are in the spring and summer. What will Israel say when they realize that they have missed the summer harvest.

Jeremiah 8
20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.
Now, the Grape Harvest was also about Israel, but Jesus is using it here to show God's JUDGMENTS against the Wicked men of all the earth. Rev. 14 has all three harvests in it.
The wrath of God is getting to happen when you see the harvest of Revelation 14. This occurs at the 6th seal, as we see wrath getting ready to happen at that time. The 7th seal contains the trumpet of wrath. The vials is just addition info of what happens in the wrath of God.

True, but there are THREE HARVEST FESTIVALS Jesus is telling us about. Not one.
Exactly. Barley, wheat and fruit.
The 144,000 are of the Wheat Harvest, which comes AFTER the Barley Harvest.
The alive Church is the wheat harvest. Barley is the dead in Christ. This is the grain harvest.

The 6th Seal DOES NOTHING, no Seals do anything, they are only Prophetic in nature.
The 1st 5 seals are the tribulation. The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus. SEE MATTHEW 24 and Revelation 14. The seventh seal is the trumpets of the wrath of God.

The Wicked are KILLED HERE. It is the same as the TARES being BOUND and SAVED for fire later on.
In the parable of the wheat and tares the tares are gathered first. In Revelation 14 the righteous are gathered first.

This is simply telling us of the new birth of Israel, we are shown the Song of their Hearts. They are not in Heaven, how can Jesus rule from Jerusalem if the are all Raptured to heaven? You are taking prose and not realizing that it is merely prose.
The dead in Christ are raised 1st. This is the barley harvest. Jesus returns for the alive that remain and bring the dead with Him. This is the wheat harvest. Then the seals are opened. The first 4 seals are the beginning of sorrows and the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. The 5th seal occurs in the great tribulation. The sixth seal is the coming of Jesus for the seed of the woman. This is the fruit harvest and the gathering from heaven and earth. The seventh seal is the one year wrath of God. Wrath is over at the 7th trumpet. Jesus has returned and Armageddon is over as Jesus sets up His kingdom on earth. He reigns forever.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the seals. The seals are the final week, though you keep claiming they are nothing, they are EVERYTHING. From the beginning of the week to the end of the week.

This is the great tribulation which puts you at the 5th seal.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Then Jesus returns at the 6th seal IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
 

The Light

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In the Three Harvest Jesus presents Israel as the Wheat, those who have to go through the tribulation before they can be sifted
The dead in Christ is the barley harvest. The alive that remain is the wheat harvest. The barley and wheat are the grain harvest and make up the Church. The twelve tribes, the seed of the woman are caught up at the sixth seal which happens at the fall fruit harvest.

Jesus displays the Three Harvests for all to see in The Harvest Chapter (Rev. 14).
No sir. The harvest in Revelation 14 occurs at the sixth seal. IT IS THE COMING OF JESUS IN MATTHEW 24......before the 1-year wrath of God.

This is the gathering from heaven and earth.
Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The Church is gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes, the seed of the woman are gathered from the earth.
We see the Wheat awaits Jesus return where they can rule with Jesus during the Kingdom Age, BUT even though they are shown as the 144,000 awaiting in Jerusalem, the are actually awaiting in the Petra/Bozrah area, they are shown in Jerusalem because Jesus rules from Jerusalem with his 3.5-5 million brothers and sisters from Jerusalem for 1000 years.
The 144,000 are first fruits. This means there will be a harvest. The harvest of the 12 tribes occurs at the 6th seal. This is what you see in Revelation 14 which is why they are singing the song of Moses.

If I told you I went out to field and grabbed the first fruits of the harvest, these would be the first ripe of that harvest. If you saw that the first fruits were pumpkins you would know that the harvest will be pumpkins. Since the 1st fruits, the 144,000 are of the 12 tribes, you know that the harvest is of the 12 tribes.

Then we get the Wicked Grapes in verses 17-20, BUT....we also get a FLACHBACK to the Pre Trib Raptured Church in verse 14. Jesus from upon a cloud harvests the Church.
The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is not a flashback of the pretrib rapture. It is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 which occurs immediately after the tribulation.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This occurs at the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
2 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the seals. Wrath is over at the 7th tumpet. Then you start back in the seals. The 1st 5 seals are the tribulation. Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the fruit harvest which is why you see grapes being tossed into the wrath of God. Then you get another view of the wrath of God.


There are Three Harvests that have celebrated Festivals,
Exactly
We do not care what the ORIGINAL PURPOSE WAS, when Jesus uses the Three Harvest Festivals to show how 1.) The Church is Harvested before anyone 2.) The Wheat or Israel is the Fathers Harvest, Jesus rules with his brothers from Jerusalem during the Kingdom Age. 3.) The Wicked are placed in the Wine-press of God's Wrath, so we get all three.
The dead in Christ rise first and go to heaven. The alive that remain will meet the Lord in the air along with the dead that now have new bodies. The alive Chruch is the wheat harvest. The fruit harvest is in the fall. The grain harvests are in the spring and summer. What will Israel say when they realize that they have missed the summer harvest.

Jeremiah 8
20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.
Now, the Grape Harvest was also about Israel, but Jesus is using it here to show God's JUDGMENTS against the Wicked men of all the earth. Rev. 14 has all three harvests in it.
The wrath of God is getting to happen when you see the harvest of Revelation 14. This occurs at the 6th seal, as we see wrath getting ready to happen at that time. The 7th seal contains the trumpet of wrath. The vials is just addition info of what happens in the wrath of God.

True, but there are THREE HARVEST FESTIVALS Jesus is telling us about. Not one.
Exactly. Barley, wheat and fruit.
The 144,000 are of the Wheat Harvest, which comes AFTER the Barley Harvest.
The alive Church is the wheat harvest. Barley is the dead in Christ. This is the grain harvest.

The 6th Seal DOES NOTHING, no Seals do anything, they are only Prophetic in nature.
The 1st 5 seals are the tribulation. The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus. SEE MATTHEW 24 and Revelation 14. The seventh seal is the trumpets of the wrath of God.

The Wicked are KILLED HERE. It is the same as the TARES being BOUND and SAVED for fire later on.
In the parable of the wheat and tares the tares are gathered first. In Revelation 14 the righteous are gathered first.

This is simply telling us of the new birth of Israel, we are shown the Song of their Hearts. They are not in Heaven, how can Jesus rule from Jerusalem if the are all Raptured to heaven? You are taking prose and not realizing that it is merely prose.
The dead in Christ are raised 1st. This is the barley harvest. Jesus returns for the alive that remain and bring the dead with Him. This is the wheat harvest. Then the seals are opened. The first 4 seals are the beginning of sorrows and the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. The 5th seal occurs in the great tribulation. The sixth seal is the coming of Jesus for the seed of the woman. This is the fruit harvest and the gathering from heaven and earth. The seventh seal is the one year wrath of God. Wrath is over at the 7th trumpet. Jesus has returned and Armageddon is over as Jesus sets up His kingdom on earth. He reigns forever.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the seals. The seals are the final week, though you keep claiming they are nothing, they are EVERYTHING. From the beginning of the week to the end of the week.

This is the great tribulation which puts you at the 5th seal.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Then Jesus returns at the 6th seal IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
 

ewq1938

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The RCC is not Babylon. Babylon is Israel and no other.

Israel isn't Babylon either. Babylon in the context of Revelation is a future conjcept, existing during the GT and briefly after. She rides the ten horned beast and it is not even here yet. Nor is she but the world is basically ready for her. She is not an actual woman, nor an actual city. She is all who is religiously confused, confused about the AC/beast and the false claims of being god. Those of Babylon will worship the Ac as a god.


The RCC didn't kill the prophets and Christ.

Nor did Babylon. The bible doesn't say Babylon killed Christ, nor that Babylon killed teh past saints. In context, Babylon doesn't kill anyone. She is only said to be drunken on their blood....not the same as having done the killing. Only the beast is said to kill the saints, and that is the endtimes saints not any saints of any timeframe.

Rev_13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev_17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.



And the RCC isn't the most powerful in the world. Israel has killed the prophets and Christ and is the most powerful nation of the world.

Israel doesn't kill the saints mentioned in Revelation.
 

strepho

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America is fading flower, Isaiah chapter 28:4. America is going into one world political system with all other nations. Our political leaders and Congress have sold our nation out. Revelation chapter 13, the beast is one world political system. Satan is the one who starts wars. Is Putin poster boy for integrity??. MEYSHAR in Hebrew means = Equity. Corruption is rampant in many countries. Clinton was the one who did NAFTA and Gatt. Politicians backed him up. Prophet Isaiah foretold our nation being fading flower. Revelation chapter 13, the one world political system receives deadly wound near future. Satan as antichrist heals deadly wound by establishing world peace. Revelation chapter 7, those who have seal of God won't worship antichrist. Majority are either too lazy to study the bible or listening to misguided preachers. There's too many fluff houses around.
 

Ronald D Milam

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The Church is raptured BEFORE the seals are opened. The marriage supper of Revelation 19 takes place during the 1 year wrath of God.
The Church is Raptured before any seals are opened, but we first see her in Rev. 4:1 and 4:4, but she already has on her White Robes so Rev. 19 shows her before she/we are Married unto the Lamb, thus Rev. 19 happens first. The Marriage takes place after Jesus' Second Coming, Armageddon is the Marriage Supper.

It is the great multitude that is at the marriage supper. The great multitude includes the dead in Christ, the alive believers that are raptured and the Jews that are raptured at the 6th seal, which I already showed you are singing the song of Moses.

Revelation 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
These are one and the same, Rev. 19 is a 7 Year view from 10,000 feet. We see the Church just as she arrives in Heaven with White Robes on yet, she still has to Marry the Lamb. In Rev. 4:4 she already has those White Robes/Raiment on, in Rev. 7 she already has on White Robes, thus both Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 7:9-14 happen AFTER the Rev. 19:6-7 passage. Not understanding that Revelation is not in Chronological Order will have one conflating passages.

The 144,000 are exactly what the Word says they are. The are the 1st fruits of the harvest of the 12 tribes across the earth........the seed of the woman, Israel.
The 144,000 are just like "The Woman" in Rev. 12 ALL Israel who Repents, both Male and Female. They are the 1/3 seen in Zech. 13:8-9 they are 3.5-5 million Jews who repent and then flee Judea at the sign of the AoD. It amazes me that you guys can accept the 10 Virgin Brides stands for the COMPLETE Church but you all refuse to accept that the 144,000 (12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10) can be coded message that stands for ALL Israel who repents. When I see think like this I know they are not called unto Prophecy. We prophecy wonks can not get bogged down on old understandings, you novice prophecy guys always get entrenched on old ideas and refuse to follow where Go leads on fresh revealing's.

No sir, they are not harvested at the same time. This is of course widely accepted, though impossible. Read what the Word says.
The Church DO NOT GO STRAIGHT TO Heaven when we die, 1 Cor 15 makes that VERY CLEAR. So, yes the Pre Trib Rapture Harvest the FULL Church at ONE TIME. The 70th week Remnant Church is of course harvested later. If you think any part of the Church is in Heaven now you are proved 100 percent wrong by 1 Cor. 15. We are raised at the same time, both the Dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain when Jesus blows the Last Trumpet, which raptures us Pre Trib.

Here we see the dead in Christ rise first.

1 Thes 4

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Here we see that the ALIVE REMAIN UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD. How can the alive remain unto the coming of the Lord if He comes for the dead at the same time He comes for the alive? That would make no sense at all.

1 Thes 4

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Here we are told not to be ignorant about the Lord bringing the dead with Him when He comes for the alive.

1 Thes 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

How can what you say be correct? It makes no sense at all. And yet most of the world would agree with what you are saying and few would agree with me. That said, think about it. What I'm saying is the only way it agrees with what Paul says.
Because you do not understand the difference between a Letter by Paul, as a Pastor of a flock, and Prophets of God whose every word was designed to inform us in specifics.

Here, the Thessalonians were afraid their loved ones had been left behind and forsaken, so Paul has to assure them that when the Lord comes he will not only take the living, but also the Dead in Christ, so he says the Dead will rise first. In 1 Cor. 15 he says the Dead arise and we are CHANGED later on, in the mere blinking of an eye (Psstt, that is at the exact same time, a blink of an eye takes under a mili-second). So, in essence Paul is just trying to keep them in the faith, hey, your dead loved one haven't been forsaken by Jesus, HEY.......They will arise before you are changed !! And you do not understand this? Come on man !!

Likewise these same Thessalonians later on thought they were in God's Wrath so Paul dealt with that in 2 Thess. 2 where he tells them we will DEPART and be gathered unto Christ Jesus BEFORE the Anti-Christ arises to power as the Beast.


My point is NO ONE GOES STRAIGHT TO HEAVEN.............WHEN WE DIE, we are all Raptured at the exact same time by Jesus who calls both the Dead and those who Remain up to be with him in Heaven. If you insist the Dead are raise a blink of an eye sooner, then that is hoot man. Paul is only being a Pastor, he's trying to sooth their fears !! That's all, DEMOSTRATION.

If me and my wife walk hand and hand into a Grocery store and my foot enters a second ahead of her feet did we walk in together? Yu see how silly that argument is? The bad part is you do nor understand why Paul is saying it for starters, then you take a BLINK of an EYE as a serious time difference.
 

BreadOfLife

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Part Five : So we have gone thru all that is false and demonic about the RCC from it's False Pedigree as per Galatians 2:7-8, thru to it's demonic doctrines of how it falsely defines what is a saint, to committing acts of Necromancy thru praying to it's false alleged dead saints, to the false immaculate conception and false doctrine of the Assumption of Mary, to again the nothing but 100% Blasphemous Doctrine of Praying To Mary, For Any Reason At All, to the Clearly Antichrist Doctrines Of Making Mary The Ark Of The Covenant, To Making Mary Thus .... The Queen Of Heaven, To Making Mary again the Co-Redemptrix, to the Antichrist And The Clearly Damnable Doctrine Of Transubstantiation, etc.., etc.., etc..,

And now we will only briefly mention the Demonic Inquisition, in all of it's forms, and manifestations, on how Christian it was to Torture and Murder all of those people, whether they were innocent, or not. There is No Excuse For The RCC At All For Any Of Their Lying Reasons Whatsoever. Remember Galatians 2:7-8 Where God Never Made Peter The First Poe, Or Any Pope At All.


The RCC Is Nothing But A Demonic Lie. And Let Us Not Forget the Over 1 Million Children Worldwide The Roman Catholic Church Has Molested. The Power Of The RCC Tries Still To Cover This Up, So One Has To Research Per Country, Where The Number Of RCC Child Molestation Cases In France Alone Is Just Over 333,000 Known Cases So Far.

So The RCC Has Molested Over 1 Million Children Worldwide As Is Known So Far, And Is Known To have Paid Out Settlements Totaling $4 Billion Dollars As Is Known So Far. But What Is Worst Of All, Is Since Most Of Those Cases Were homosexual Child Molestations, That Many Of those Boys Grew Up Really Messed Up. And Mixed Guilty Over What Happened To them, That We Know More Than A Few Have Commited Suicide Over This, And We Just Don't Know How Many?

please allow me time to complete / I need to sleep for a bit
That was quite a rant. You appear to be a very angry person who has been spoon-fed a LOT of anti-Catholic manure for a long time.

Your complete ignorance of Catholic doctrine aside – you seem to be especially angered by the sex scandal that plagued the Church a few years back. I, too was angered by it.

I was even MORE angered when I found out that the problem was FAR WORDE in the Protestant churches yet ALL of the fingers were pointed at the Catholic Church.

In his nook Pedophiles and Priests, Protestant author Philip Jenkins chronicles the FBI and insurance statistics, police reports and court records and shows WHY the Catholic Church became the public target:
MONEY. It ALL comes down to money.

EVERY Catholic Diocese is insured, whereas MOST smaller Protestant churches are NOT the Lawyers went after the MONEY and largely neglected the molestation problem. There is also the perceived wealth of the Church - which caused the lawyers to see nothing but DOLLAR $IGGNS.

If you don’t believe me - READ some of the articles behind these headlines.
Better yet – pick up a copy of Pedophiles and Priests, and you’ll get a real education . . .
How Protestant Churches Hid Sexual Abuse ...
A History of Sex Abuse in the Protestant Imagination
FAQ: Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy - The Doan Law Firm
1 in 10 Young Protestants Have Left a Church Over Abuse
Evangelicals ‘worse’ than Catholics on sexual abuse
Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson
Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’
Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics
There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic
Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy
Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy
Blogger Who Exposed Protestant Sex Abuse Cover Up Sued By Her Pastor
Denial About Sexual Abuse In Evangelical Churches
Southern Baptists Apologize For Sex Abuse Coverups
U.S. Protestants’ Views Mixed about Extent of Clergy Sexual Abuse
Churchgoers Split on Existence of More Sexual Abuse by Pastors
Confronting Evangelical Enabling of Sexual Abuse
Child abuse a Calvinist problem, podcast says
Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis

As to the Catholic doctrines you listed – I’ll be MORE than happy to educate you about your lack of understanding of ALL of them.
 
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