THE DAY OF THE LORD

[Ronald D Milam]

Prophe

Okay, "dude". It's quite clear that you can't be reasoned with. Jesus said "Elijah has already come" and that it was John the Baptist and you say he has not come yet. I will side with Jesus on this.

Prophesy has been my calling for 38 years, its quite clear Israrl repents just before the DOTL, its clear (to me) that the Agreement (Covenant means agreement) in Dan. 9:27 is simply Israel joining the E.U. Its clear that the False Prophet is a Jewish High Priest gone rouge whose archetype was Jason (real name Yeshua) under Antiochus who was the archetype A.C.

This Elijah stuff is just stuff most everyone already understands, there is no debate on it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Prophe

Prophesy has been my calling for 38 years,

What was your point in mentioning this? Do you think the length of time you study prophecy determines whether your doctrine is true or not? I hope not because there are people who have studied prophecy for just as long and disagree with you. So, you saying this seems rather pointless.

its quite clear Israrl repents just before the DOTL, its clear (to me) that the Agreement (Covenant means agreement) in Dan. 9:27 is simply Israel joining the E.U. Its clear that the False Prophet is a Jewish High Priest gone rouge whose archetype was Jason (real name Yeshua) under Antiochus who was the archetype A.C.

This Elijah stuff is just stuff most everyone already understands, there is no debate on it.

And it's clear to me that you're wrong about all of this and that the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is the new covenant that Jesus established with His sacrifice and His blood long ago which did away with the need for the old covenant animal sacrifices and offerings. It's ridiculous to say "there is no debate on it". Yes, there is. And you're on the wrong end of it.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

"And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."

Its an IDIOM !! Look up the word. No man can be born unto two different mothers. Good grief man. Read Luke 1, the angel clearly says John has come in the Spirit of Elijah. Jesus is saying this man, John's mission and calling, was the same as Elijah's, BUT............We know Israel refused to repent via John, but will turn back unto God via Elijah during the end times. The fact that you guys can't understand that Israel as a nation have not yet repented, thus Elijah could not have been John because Elijah turns Israel back unto God just tells me that you do not grasp what Jesus is saying here.

As proven by the lie you just told.

As proven by the fact you can't decipher Prophesy.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

What was your point in mentioning this? Do you think the length of time you study prophecy determines whether your doctrine is true or not? I hope not because there are people who have studied prophecy for just as long and disagree with you. So, you saying this seems rather pointless.

Well, if we are discussing painting a house and you come up with an all together bad formula for doing so and try to teach people that no primer is needed or that its OK to put inside paint on the outside or mix in varnish half and half (Whatever it is matters not) and I want to assure everyone else these are bad ideas, and I have been a professional painter for 40 years, I think that would be what is called germane information to the subject. As a man called to preach and specifically unto Prophecy, it matters that that is my calling, that is a fact, of course a man called unto Prophesy its going to be given a far greater understanding, if he yields unto the holy spirits voice. Those not called probably need to listen more.

Length doesn't matter per se, but the calling does matter. God an chose to give it all in 5 years, Jesus changed the world in 3 years, via his ministry, but he was the Sn of God on this earth for 33ish years and is eternal like the Father. It in no wise is pointless, anyone who doesn't understand no man is born twice to a human mother needs to be snapped back into reality brother, Elijah has not yet turned Israel back unto GOd, go look at Zech. 12, its END TIMES, so is Zech. 13, so is Zech. 14, Israel repents at the VEEY END, thus Elijah has not been sent back yet. Just because so post tribber told you that long ago doesn't mean you should continue believing that.

And it's clear to me that you're wrong about all of this and that the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is the new covenant that Jesus established with His sacrifice and His blood long ago which did away with the need for the old covenant animal sacrifices and offerings. It's ridiculous to say "there is no debate on it". Yes, there is. And you're on the wrong end of it.

Oh my, one of those who thinks Jesus died in the middle of the week. You need to give up on Prophecy sir, you are never going to understand it by believing such, its not even a close call.

 

[QuantumBit]

Its an IDIOM !! Look up the word.

No, it is literal.

No man can be born unto two different mothers.

Of course they can. The Saved get a new Heavenly Mother...

Galatians 4:26
"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

The Unsaved get a new Earthly Mother...

Galatians 4:25
"For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children."

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well, if we are discussing painting a house and you come up with an all together bad formula for doing so and try to teach people that no primer is needed or that its OK to put inside paint on the outside or mix in varnish half and half (Whatever it is matters not) and I want to assure everyone else these are bad ideas, and I have been a professional painter for 40 years, I think that would be what is called germane information to the subject. As a man called to preach and specifically unto Prophecy, it matters that that is my calling, that is a fact, of course a man called unto Prophesy its going to be given a far greater understanding, if he yields unto the holy spirits voice. Those not called probably need to listen more.

You are not called to that any more than I am. Get off your high horse and humble yourself if you want to actually learn anything. You clearly have learned nothing after all of these years.

Length doesn't matter per se, but the calling does matter.

We both believe we are called to teach prophecy, so that is not the difference between us.

God an chose to give it all in 5 years, Jesus changed the world in 3 years, via his ministry, but he was the Sn of God on this earth for 33ish years and is eternal like the Father. It in no wise is pointless, anyone who doesn't understand no man is born twice to a human mother needs to be snapped back into reality brother, Elijah has not yet turned Israel back unto GOd, go look at Zech. 12, its END TIMES, so is Zech. 13, so is Zech. 14, Israel repents at the VEEY END, thus Elijah has not been sent back yet. Just because so post tribber told you that long ago doesn't mean you should continue believing that.

You have proven your ignorance here. The reason that you have learned NOTHING after all of these years is because you take a biased approach to interpreting scripture. All of this is based on your ASSUMPTIONS. You did not do your due diligence when studying Zechariah. You say Zechariah 12 and 13 are end times? Have you never read the New Testament?

Zechariah 12:10 is quoted here by Jesus in John 19:37:

John 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,” 37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

Jesus applied Zechariah 12:10 to His time, not future "END TIMES".

Zechariah 13:7 is referenced here in the context of Jesus's time as well:

Matthew 26:31 Then Jesus told them, “This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: “‘I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’ 32 But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.”

Jesus applied Zechariah 13:7 to the disciples being afraid and running away when they came to arrest Him. So, Zechariah 13 applies to His time, not future "END TIMES".

Your doctrinally biased approach caused you to miss things like this. You are not allowing New Testament scripture to interpret Old Testament scripture for you, which is a common mistake.

Oh my, one of those who thinks Jesus died in the middle of the week. You need to give up on Prophecy sir, you are never going to understand it by believing such, its not even a close call.

Your arrogance is your downfall. You think you know it all because you have been around a long time, but you are proving that you know NOTHING. You didn't even know that Zechariah 12 and 13 are referenced in Matthew in the context of Jesus's time. If you can't even understand things like that, what CAN you understand? Nothing as long as you continue to not be objective and instead look at everything with doctrinal bias.

 

[Timtofly]

I am a rare Chrisitan that believes that the Spirit of a person can literally come back as a new baby.

That is the problem. The soul is the part in the body, not the spirit. A spirit is not a person. A spirit does not have a soul. A soul can put on the spirit like the soul puts on the body.

When Adam disobeyed God, he remained the soul, but was given a dead physical body, called mortal. His spirit was taken away that belongs to God, and is the direct image of God.

God is a spirit and those that worship Him must do so in spirit and truth.

The spirit is one's image of God.

The soul is the image of the Holy Spirit as the "software" (the mind) in the "machine" (the body).

The body is the image of the only begotten son.

Yes I am weird like that stating Jesus, after the Cross always existed in eternity, as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. That resurrection body has always existed, though born at a certain point within creation itself.

So we were formed in the image of the resurrected Christ, body wise.

We are the soul, and we put on a physical body, and after that the spirit, as a robe of white, although more a bright light as seen physically.

That is why Paul said this corruption puts on incorruption, the body. This mortal puts on immortality, the spirit. This death literally puts on God, the spirit image of God. Only God was described in Scripture as immortal.

Immortality is one of those words like Amil with a prefix meaning without. In this case without death, athanasía "without" and thánatos, "death" The literal word immortal is translated from a different Greek word, which means imperishable, and the same word used first. Aphthartos meaning imperishable thus immortal.

Some interpret the verse to just be repeating the same thing twice. Obviously the soul is twice dead, body and spirit. The body and spirit are not dead, the soul is just lacking the body and spirit in death. Instead God substituted a dead, mortal body, and gave us the Holy Spirit as a substitute for our spirit.

Ephesians 1:13-14

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

2 Corinthians 1:21-22

"Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts."

An earnest (a part payment in advance for security) an earnest, earnest-money, a large part of the payment, given in advance as a security that the whole will be paid afterwards.

What Adam lacked and all his descendants was the spirit. The Holy Spirit was sent as earnest to every individual at conception. So no such thing as a spirit sneaking into the conception process from a previous sinner. We will not need the Holy Spirit once we put on our spirit, which is the payment in full of being restored to the image of God as sons of God.

The Holy Spirit is the only spirit given by God. And God is the only engineer in the process of conception.

If one is possesed of a spirit, that would be a demon or devil, which is another soul's spirit that has been demonized. That is the result of a reprobate mind. When the sons of God procreated with Adam's dead corruptible flesh they were all made reprobate, because they all were destroyed. Not all the sons of God procreated with Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Ever heard of the rapture before the Day of Judgment?

There is a reason why only Adam's dead corruptible flesh was allowed to remain and there were sons of God raptured who did not become wicked and reprobate. The same reason why the church will not be on earth during the Millennium. The earth is for procreation. Heaven and Paradise is the place humanity waits until the NHNE. The sons of God did rule as council with God over those humans left on the earth after the Flood. We see that in Job.

The Day of the Lord is only a partial restoration for those on earth. They are not glorified, the putting on of the spirit. They are not in Adam's dead flesh, but the original body Adam had before he disobeyed and physically died. There is no sin nor death because of people sinning as sinners. There will be laws to obey and death is still the penalty for disobedience. But one is placed in Death and removed from the earth. They won't live in death like Adam and his offspring.

 

[Timtofly]

Matthew 17:9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.” 10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?” 11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him,

"And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias."

So was it Elijah and Moses that came that day to the place they were?

Or was it Moses and John the Baptist?

Jesus said the prophecy will be fulfulled and was fulfilled in John the Baptist.

Jesus did not say Elijah came and was John the Baptist.

They just saw Moses and Elijah the two OT witnesses. Then they asked about the prophecy knowing full well they just saw Elijah a few minutes ago.


They understood that John the Baptist was the one fulfilling the prophecy and they knew John the Baptist was not Elijah.

Now will Elijah still come, or another one like John the Baptist? What was the point Jesus made by stating:

11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things."

Also looking at the prophecy Gabriel gave:

"And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

John did not restore all things, nor will Elijah as Jesus also said:

"they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them."

The task is to prepare and restore. Who rejected John the Baptist and Jesus?

 

[Davy]

The Day of the Lord.

According to Mal 4:5-6 Elijah is one of the two witnesses who will be sent back before the great and terrible day of the Lord. From Rev 11 we know that the two witnesses will appear during the great tribulation period. From this we can conclude that the day of the Lord occurs after the great tribulation period.
Mal 4:5-6 "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. 6 "And he will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse.”

Acts 2:20 tells us the day of the Lord occurs after the great tribulation period, which is metaphorically described in the phrase “the sun being turned into darkness and the moon into blood”.
Acts 2:20 'THE SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS, AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.

Matt. 24: 15-21 tells us the great tribulation period, begins when the abomination of desolation is set up.
Matt. 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ( let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; 17 let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house; 18 and let him who is in the field not turn back to get his cloak. 19 “But woe to those who are with child and to those who nurse babes in those days! 20 “But pray that your flight may not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath; 21 for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.

2Th 2:2 tells us the coming of our Lord and our gathering together to him or resurrection found in 2Th 2:1 marks the beginning of the day of the Lord.
2 Th 2:1-2 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

According to 2Pet 3:10 the day of the Lord continues until the end of the age when the heavens and earth are destroyed and the judgment of the dead occurs.
2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

Zec 14:6-21 provides a glimpse into what the day of the Lord will be like during the 1000 year reign.
Zech. 14:6 And it will come about in that day that there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. 7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light. 8 And it will come about in that day that living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter. 9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one. 10 All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin’s Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s wine presses. 11 And people will live in it, and there will be no more curse, for Jerusalem will dwell in security. 12 Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth. 13 And it will come about in that day that a great panic from the LORD will fall on them; and they will seize one another’s hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another. 14 And Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance. 15 So also like this plague, will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey, and all the cattle that will be in those camps. 16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18 And if the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 20 In that day there will be inscribedon the bells of the horses, “ HOLY TO THE LORD.” And the cooking pots in the LORD’S house will be like the bowls before the altar. 21 And every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts in that day.

If I was going to sum up the Day of the Lord I would say it is when Jesus intervenes in the affairs of mankind and includes the resurrection, Armageddon, the disposal of the Antichrist, False Prophet and his armies, Jesus’s 1000 years reign, the destruction of the heavens and earth, the judgment of the dead, the sentencing of the unsaved to the Lake of Fire and the new heaven and the new earth.

You're close to being on track with God's Word about the "day of the Lord", so don't be swayed by those here who don't really understand enough of the Scriptures you posted.

The 'events' prophesied to happen on the "day of the Lord" involve specific events on the 'last day' of this present world, which is the day of Christ's return to gather His Church, as written there in Zechariah 14. Men's doctrines don't like to include the Zechariah 14 Scripture in their teaching about Jesus' future return.

The 2 Peter 3:10 Scripture about God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth on the "day of the Lord" reveals why it will come "as a thief". It will surprise the whole world. The end of Hebrews 12 also gives a short description of the destruction scheduled on that day that will literally end this present world earth age. It reveals not just God's consuming fire, but also another 'shaking' of this earth similar to the previous one (back in the old world that ended Satan's first rebellion).

In 1 Thessalonians 5, Apostle Paul also showed a destruction on that day upon those who will be deceived with saying, "Peace and safety". He was pulling that from the Old Testament prophets about the "day of the Lord" and God's destruction upon the earth on that day, with it coming at an instant. It will thus end... the time of great tribulation and usher us all into Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

I notice you believe that "day of the Lord" phrase includes the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign, and all the way to the new heavens and a new earth time. Symbolically that could apply to that time after Christ's future return, but the Scriptures (like Zephaniah 1) applies the "day of the Lord" particularly to the 'last day' of this present world, like Apostles Paul and Peter did also.

 

[jamesdalbright]

2 Thess 2:1 does not say anything about resurrection when Jesus Returns. Living humans will be gathered, as 1 Thess 4:17 and Matthew 24:31 tell us. Brought to be with Jesus, in Jerusalem.
I have reported your rude accusation of 'sneaky'

Posting only 1Th 4:17 is a case in point of you being sneaky and trying to separate the dead in Christ rising first found in 1Th 4:16 from those being caught up alive found in 1Th 4:17 by omitting it and then claiming that the phrase "our gathering together to Him", found in 2Th 2:1 is not about the resurrection, but rather a false pretrib rapture, in which only those who are alive are caught up, is what the moderators need to kick you out of here for doing.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
2Th. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him.
According to the parable of the virgins after the resurrection we go to the wedding feast in heaven not Jerusalem.
Matt 25:10 “And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Hi @jamesdalbright .

My views have been called 'unorthodox', so what I believe may sound strange.

I do not want to derail your thread, so I will just state my beliefs.



I believe it was literal. Yes, I am weird like that... lol.



I believe John will come back as Elijah in the future... in another Body.



Indeed, however I believe John either lied through fear of being killed or did not know. To me, Jesus overrules what John said.

Having said all of that, I do not blame you for thinking I am crazy or whatever.

I am a rare Chrisitan that believes that the Spirit of a person can literally come back as a new baby.

Jesus instructed us to use the scriptures to teach and correct and that is what I did. Your outright rejection of the scriptures is your problem and Jesus will deal with you in accordance to how you fit into Dan 12:10.
Dan 12:10 “ Many will be purged, purified and refined; but the wicked will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.

 

[jamesdalbright]

You're close to being on track with God's Word about the "day of the Lord", so don't be swayed by those here who don't really understand enough of the Scriptures you posted.

The 'events' prophesied to happen on the "day of the Lord" involve specific events on the 'last day' of this present world, which is the day of Christ's return to gather His Church, as written there in Zechariah 14. Men's doctrines don't like to include the Zechariah 14 Scripture in their teaching about Jesus' future return.

The 2 Peter 3:10 Scripture about God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth on the "day of the Lord" reveals why it will come "as a thief". It will surprise the whole world. The end of Hebrews 12 also gives a short description of the destruction scheduled on that day that will literally end this present world earth age. It reveals not just God's consuming fire, but also another 'shaking' of this earth similar to the previous one (back in the old world that ended Satan's first rebellion).

In 1 Thessalonians 5, Apostle Paul also showed a destruction on that day upon those who will be deceived with saying, "Peace and safety". He was pulling that from the Old Testament prophets about the "day of the Lord" and God's destruction upon the earth on that day, with it coming at an instant. It will thus end... the time of great tribulation and usher us all into Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

I notice you believe that "day of the Lord" phrase includes the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign, and all the way to the new heavens and a new earth time. Symbolically that could apply to that time after Christ's future return, but the Scriptures (like Zephaniah 1) applies the "day of the Lord" particularly to the 'last day' of this present world, like Apostles Paul and Peter did also.

Zech 14:5 and the scriptures that follow pertain to the 1000 year reign, which is according to 2Pet 3:10, which tells us the destruction of the heavens and earth are part of the day of the Lord, is a continuation of Jesus directly intervening in the affairs of the earth.
Zech 14:5 .....Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him! 6 And it will come about in that day that there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. 7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light. 8 And it will come about in that day that living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.

2Pet 3:10 includes the burning up of the earth in the day of the Lord, which occurs after the 1000 years ends.
2Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

2Th 2:1-2 tells us that the resurrection is part of the day of the Lord and when you compare it with Mal 4;5-6, which tells us the day of the Lord begins after Elijah fulfills his part as one of the two witnesses, you can see that the resurrection of the righteous that occurs right after Babylon the great is judged, marks the beginning of the day of the Lord.
2Th. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
Mal 4:5-6 "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. 6 "And he will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse.”

I lieu of the fact that Mal. 4:5-6 tells us the day of the Lord begins after the two witnesses prophecy during the period of great tribulation 1Th. 5:1 has to be referring to Armageddon, even though we associate everyone thinking Peace and Safety with the period between the time the Antichrist makes a peace treaty between many nations and Israel and the point in time he breaks it.
1Th. 5:1 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “ Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like birth pangs upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 

[jamesdalbright]

You're just not getting it. Of course he was not the literal Elijah and no one is saying that. But, we know from passages like Matthew 11:11-14 and Matthew 17:10-14 that John the Baptist was the fulfillment of the Elijah to come. And we know from Luke 1 that the context was in terms of him coming in the spirit of Elijah (he was like Elijah), so that's how the prophecy should be understood. You are not allowing New Testament scripture to interpret the Old Testament scripture for you.

You are not getting it; John himself said he was not Elijah who is to come. The scriptures are for reproof and correction not opinions.
John 1:19-21 And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?" 20 And he confessed, and did not deny, and he confessed, "I am not the Christ." 21 And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he said^, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."

 

[jamesdalbright]

Who are the rescued believers?

You answered the question in your question; maybe you should explain yourself instead of asking to me to guess what strange idea you have in mind.

 

[Davy]

Zech 14:5 and the scriptures that follow pertain to the 1000 year reign, which is according to 2Pet 3:10, which tells us the destruction of the heavens and earth are part of the day of the Lord, is a continuation of Jesus directly intervening in the affairs of the earth.
Zech 14:5 .....Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him! 6 And it will come about in that day that there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. 7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light. 8 And it will come about in that day that living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.

I think you just confused... that 2 Peter 3:10 Scripture, because it does... happen on the day of Christ's future return on the "day of the Lord". That is when God's consuming fire will burn man's works off the surface of this earth, and usher all into Christ's future 1,000 years reign. But further below in your post, you change that, and say it happens after... Christ's future 1,000 years reign, when no, it doesn't.

I think you are confusing the fire that comes down from God out of Heaven to destroy those nations that Satan will lead against the "camp of the saints" after the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:7-9). That's not the 2 Peter 3:10 consuming fire. One of God's fire events will end this present world, the final one destroys those who come up against the "camp of the saints".

Some preachers are confused about God's consuming fire and the Gog-Magog events. The destruction of the armies of Gog-Magog per Ezekiel 38 & 39 is about the 'last day' of this present world, on the "day of the Lord" with Lord Jesus' return. Note the condition Jerusalem will be in at that event, workings by the unbelieving Jews deceived by a false-Messiah. Is that... the same as the "camp of the saints" which Rev.20:9 points to for after... Jesus' 1,000 years reign? Obviously no. Thus the Gog-Magog event that happens AFTER... the 1,000 years is different, and so is that time of God's fire coming down out of Heaven to burn those nations Satan leads against the "camp of the saints" on earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are not getting it; John himself said he was not Elijah who is to come. The scriptures are for reproof and correction not opinions.
John 1:19-21 And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?" 20 And he confessed, and did not deny, and he confessed, "I am not the Christ." 21 And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he said^, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."

Looks like you didn't read what I said since you didn't address what I said at all, so I'll just repeat it. Please read it this time.

You're just not getting it. Of course he was not the literal Elijah and no one is saying that. But, we know from passages like Matthew 11:11-14 and Matthew 17:10-14 that John the Baptist was the fulfillment of the Elijah to come. And we know from Luke 1 that the context was in terms of him coming in the spirit of Elijah (he was like Elijah), so that's how the prophecy should be understood. You are not allowing New Testament scripture to interpret the Old Testament scripture for you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Posting only 1Th 4:17 is a case in point of you being sneaky and trying to separate the dead in Christ rising first found in 1Th 4:16 from those being caught up alive found in 1Th 4:17 by omitting it and then claiming that the phrase "our gathering together to Him", found in 2Th 2:1 is not about the resurrection, but rather a false pretrib rapture, in which only those who are alive are caught up, is what the moderators need to kick you out of here for doing.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
2Th. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him.
According to the parable of the virgins after the resurrection we go to the wedding feast in heaven not Jerusalem.
Matt 25:10 “And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.

I agree that it was shameful for him to leave out the actual context of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 which is that the resurrected dead in Christ will be caught up together with those who are still alive at the time Jesus comes to meet Him in the air. And 2 Thess 2:1 is clearly a reference to that same event, so to claim that 2 Thess 2:1 doesn't involve a resurrection is clearly false. That was just a blatant case of twisting scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

2 Thess 2:1 does not say anything about resurrection when Jesus Returns. Living humans will be gathered, as 1 Thess 4:17 and Matthew 24:31 tell us. Brought to be with Jesus, in Jerusalem.
I have reported your rude accusation of 'sneaky'

But, he was right in accusing you of that. You had no basis for reporting him. You referenced 1 Thess 4:17 which has to do with the resurrected dead in Christ being caught up together with those who are still alive at Christ's return. And 2 Thess 2:1 is clearly about that same event. So, to say that 2 Thess 2:1 does not involve a resurrection while referencing a directly related verse (1 Thess 4:17) that talks about the resurrected dead in Christ is a clear contradiction on your part.

 

[jamesdalbright]

I think you just confused... that 2 Peter 3:10 Scripture, because it does... happen on the day of Christ's future return on the "day of the Lord". That is when God's consuming fire will burn man's works off the surface of this earth, and usher all into Christ's future 1,000 years reign. But further below in your post, you change that, and say it happens after... Christ's future 1,000 years reign, when no, it doesn't.

I think you are confusing the fire that comes down from God out of Heaven to destroy those nations that Satan will lead against the "camp of the saints" after the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:7-9). That's not the 2 Peter 3:10 consuming fire. One of God's fire events will end this present world, the final one destroys those who come up against the "camp of the saints".

Some preachers are confused about God's consuming fire and the Gog-Magog events. The destruction of the armies of Gog-Magog per Ezekiel 38 & 39 is about the 'last day' of this present world, on the "day of the Lord" with Lord Jesus' return. Note the condition Jerusalem will be in at that event, workings by the unbelieving Jews deceived by a false-Messiah. Is that... the same as the "camp of the saints" which Rev.20:9 points to for after... Jesus' 1,000 years reign? Obviously no. Thus the Gog-Magog event that happens AFTER... the 1,000 years is different, and so is that time of God's fire coming down out of Heaven to burn those nations Satan leads against the "camp of the saints" on earth.

There is no scripture that says a fire will burn mans works off the face of the earth before the 1000 years. 2Pet 3:10 occurs after the 1000 years. I never made a connection between Rev.20:7-9 and 2Pet 3:10.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Looks like you didn't read what I said since you didn't address what I said at all, so I'll just repeat it. Please read it this time.

You're just not getting it. Of course he was not the literal Elijah and no one is saying that. But, we know from passages like Matthew 11:11-14 and Matthew 17:10-14 that John the Baptist was the fulfillment of the Elijah to come. And we know from Luke 1 that the context was in terms of him coming in the spirit of Elijah (he was like Elijah), so that's how the prophecy should be understood. You are not allowing New Testament scripture to interpret the Old Testament scripture for you.

The scriptures point out that there is no connection between the fulfillmnent of Mal. 4:5-6 and John the Baptist. The scriptures merely pointed out the John had the same effect as Elijah and that Elijah will have the same effect as John when he is sent back as one of the two witnesses after the Antichrist and the False Prophet capture Jerusalem and set up the abomination of desolation.
Mal 4:5 “Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. 6 “And he will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse.”