The Decline of Christian America

[freedom7]

"'This is a Christian nation,' said the Supreme Court in 1892. 'America was born a Christian nation,' echoed Woodrow Wilson. Harry Truman affirmed it: 'This is a Christian nation.' But in 2009, Barack Hussein Obama begged to differ: 'We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation'....
"Whereas 86 percent of Americans in 1990 identified as Christians, by 2007, that was down to 78 percent. Today only 7 in 10 say they are Christians. But the percentage of those describing themselves as atheists, agnostics or nonbelievers has risen to 23.... 'Those in the mainline Protestant churches — Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians — have plummeted from 50 percent of the U.S. population in 1958 to 14 percent today....
"The decline in Christian identity is greatest among the young. While 85 percent of Americans born before 1945 still call themselves Christians, only 57 percent of those born after 1980 do."

http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/patrick-j-buchanan/decline-christian-america

 

[pom2014]

No nation is Christian as all are fallen and in rebellion of the King.

I can say I'm an apple tart for twenty years but I'll never be one.

The actions of a nation or a person state what they are.

 

[aspen]

Why does it matter if we live in a Christian nation or not; Heaven is our home

 

[[email protected]]

America was never a Christian nation. It was, however, founded on Christian principles that secular portions of the culture generally accepted. All of those principles have today been abandoned. Most adults do not even know what kind of government was established by the ratification of the constitution in 1788. It wasn't a democracy. (Hint - If you want to know, recite the pledge of allegiance.)

The nation of America is in decline according to any definition one wishes to consult. The only debate that remains is the rapidity of the process. We are today witness to the stench of the rotting corpse of a once great civilization. Much has been written about the constitution, which is generally accepted to be an obsolete document. Much has also been written about "getting our country back". It is an ironic sign of the times that those who cry loudest are those who most adamantly refuse to acknowledge the reasons for the decline of the nation. Everyone is pointing the finger of guilt elsewhere. The truth is that we need to point it at ourselves.

America has forgotten God.

In fact, America is very busy thumbing its nose at the Almighty. We are very busy telling God and anyone who represents Him that our lives are none of His business and to leave us alone.

and so He has.

"So do not pray for this people nor offer any plea or petition for them; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you."
- Jeremiah 7:16/11:14

Henceforth judgment has been proclaimed against America. We will not see blessings from heaven for a very long time. Watch the TV reports and read the newspapers. America is being thrashed by one disaster after another - one terrible tragedy after another - one scandal after another. One does not have to be a prophet or rocket scientist to see it, but one does have to be a fool to ignore it. The very fabric of our country is being ripped apart even as we cry out against the power of heaven which alone can save us.

It has been said that people get the government they deserve. They also get the judgment they deserve too.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[pom2014]

It never had Christian principles.

they never followed the two great commands.

So no Christian principles were observed. This is a myth.

But don't worry no government has. So the states are not alone.

I wish Christians would stop lying about their nation being even remotely Christian.

 

[DogLady19]

"'This is a Christian nation,' said the Supreme Court in 1892. 'America was born a Christian nation,' echoed Woodrow Wilson. Harry Truman affirmed it: 'This is a Christian nation.' But in 2009, Barack Hussein Obama begged to differ: 'We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation'....
"Whereas 86 percent of Americans in 1990 identified as Christians, by 2007, that was down to 78 percent. Today only 7 in 10 say they are Christians. But the percentage of those describing themselves as atheists, agnostics or nonbelievers has risen to 23.... 'Those in the mainline Protestant churches — Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians — have plummeted from 50 percent of the U.S. population in 1958 to 14 percent today....
"The decline in Christian identity is greatest among the young. While 85 percent of Americans born before 1945 still call themselves Christians, only 57 percent of those born after 1980 do."

http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/patrick-j-buchanan/decline-christian-america

I don't know how a nation can be a Christian anyway... Only individual people can accept Christ as Lord and Savior... nations cannot. And if we want God to heal our nation, it is up to the Christians in it. No amount of laws or creeds can improve on the moral and social plight of a country. Only those who are called by His name, when they humble themselves and pray, and seek His face, can change the moral course of a nation. (2 Chronicles 7:14)

On a side note, atheists and non-Christians fool themselves when they declare that morals can exist without God. They are denying the source of the moral code, that God wrote His laws on the hearts of every person... (Romans 2:14-15)

This just goes to show that God is always sovereign, no matter the gov't or society in which someone lives... Rulers think they are in control, but this is foolish on their part to think such... Daniel 2:20-21

 

[newlife]

There is definite decline in the number of people who identify themselves as Christian in the West. The trend toward secularism amd the denial of the supernatural began with the Enlightenment and now underpins Western thought. We are increasingly becoming a post- Christian society. This trend has accelerated recently. The decline is not only evident among nominal Christians and liberal churches but among evangelicals as well. People are not gravitating by and large toward New Age belief systems but are increasingly becoming indifferent to Christianity and also turning toward humanistic phlosophy, atheism/ agnosticism. Although I don't agree completely with its conclusions the Great Evangelical Recession by John Dickerson (2013) published by Baker Books provides considerable documentation of these trends. Another book which documents these changes and includes current as well as historical information is One Naion Without God: The Battle for Christianity in an Age of Unbelief by David Aikman (2012) also by Baker Books. There has been considearble growth of Charismatic/ Pentecostal Christianity in Latin America, Subsaharan Africa and parts of Asia however.

According to the 2010 Eurobarometer poll 40 percent of the population of France denies the existence of God, Spirit or any form of life force, the highest rate of atheism in Europe, while 27 percent said that they believe there is a God. In Sweden 34 percent did not believe in God, Spirit or a life force while 18 percent believed in God. Overall among Euro Member states 51 percent affirmed a belief in God, with the highest rate of theism in Malta at 94 percent. Quite extraordinary numbers for a continent long considered to be at the center of Christian belief. The United States tends to be much more religous then Europe but delcline is evident here as well. In the US Gallup, Pew Research and the General Social Survey have noted a dramatic rise in the number of people with no religious affiliation placing that number between 16-18 percent of the general population with close to quarter of the population between 18-29 in that category.

The acceptance of cohabitation and homosexuality as alternative lifestyles, the increasing crudity on television all reflect changes in mores among the public and a movement away from Biblical Christianity in the West.

 

[pom2014]

Christianity in the west is different than in the states.

On the whole there is no decline as central and south America is doing fine. As well as many Pacific island nations.

It is the states and Canada where the decline is, due in large part to disappointment in the levitical churches.

 

[HammerStone]

I'm not sure we want (or should) to include all of the various more radical forms of Pentecostalism and syncretism in the Southern hemisphere in the umbrella of Christianity. There are a number of very good and orthodox Pentecostals and so on in that part of the world who I look to for leadership and help, but let's be honest in that even excluding the US, there is no true "norm" for Christianity. It's a very diverse faith, and to speak of it any large cross section of it as monolithic is vast oversimplification. One of the great strengths of the gospel of Christ is that it tends to transcend all cultures, regions, and time. That doesn't mean that there won't be unhealthy emphases and failings by its adherents, but that's another matter.

That said, I do think it's a little dubious for a Brit to lecture Americans on the history of our government. Yes, in a very real sense there is not an explicit Christian government, but in deference to passages in works like the Federalist Papers, most to all of the founders understood the necessity of a unifying moral fabric to keep a melting pot country united. No one understood this fabric to be anything but what we have come to call Judeo-Christian values, most explicitly seen as Christian values. Like our DogLady already said, I believe this to very much be a manifestation of Romans 2:14-15. These things will bubble to the surface.

So in a secondary sense, yes this was intended to be a Christian nation in one sense of the term. A statement otherwise is just plan disingenuous or simply seeks to define Christian in their own preferred light.

 

[DogLady19]

...

It is the states and Canada where the decline is, due in large part to disappointment in the levitical churches.

Very true. The age of Phariseeism in the US has had a very negative impact... Ask the average Joe in the US why they don't go to church, their first response will be the legalism... the long list of don'ts, the ugly looks, and snarky judgment from pew warmers... Ask them about grace, and they lack a solid grasp of the concept.

When will Christians and church-goers finally grasp that the law was already fulfilled? Why is there still an obsession with Levitical law among Christians and non-believers alike?

Argue with an American atheist, and the first thing they bring up is Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Even Jesus had contempt for the Pharisees... calling them a brood of vipers, bleached out tombstones made of dead men's bones, blind guides, fools and hypocrites... When an atheist says that about the pharisaical churches and Christians they've encountered, I don't argue with them. I agree with them!

Our mission is to share the Good News of God's grace. If our churches focused more on that, we'd have more people attending church and accepting that grace.

"...the ministry Jesus has received... is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another... By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear." -Hebrews 8:6,7 & 13

 

[DogLady19]

...in deference to passages in works like the Federalist Papers, most to all of the founders understood the necessity of a unifying moral fabric to keep a melting pot country united. No one understood this fabric to be anything but what we have come to call Judeo-Christian values, most explicitly seen as Christian values...

So in a secondary sense, yes this was intended to be a Christian nation in one sense of the term. A statement otherwise is just plan disingenuous or simply seeks to define Christian in their own preferred light.

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." -John Quincy Adams

 

[pom2014]

I'm not sure we want (or should) to include all of the various more radical forms of Pentecostalism and syncretism in the Southern hemisphere in the umbrella of Christianity. There are a number of very good and orthodox Pentecostals and so on in that part of the world who I look to for leadership and help, but let's be honest in that even excluding the US, there is no true "norm" for Christianity. It's a very diverse faith, and to speak of it any large cross section of it as monolithic is vast oversimplification. One of the great strengths of the gospel of Christ is that it tends to transcend all cultures, regions, and time. That doesn't mean that there won't be unhealthy emphases and failings by its adherents, but that's another matter.

That said, I do think it's a little dubious for a Brit to lecture Americans on the history of our government. Yes, in a very real sense there is not an explicit Christian government, but in deference to passages in works like the Federalist Papers, most to all of the founders understood the necessity of a unifying moral fabric to keep a melting pot country united. No one understood this fabric to be anything but what we have come to call Judeo-Christian values, most explicitly seen as Christian values. Like our DogLady already said, I believe this to very much be a manifestation of Romans 2:14-15. These things will bubble to the surface.

So in a secondary sense, yes this was intended to be a Christian nation in one sense of the term. A statement otherwise is just plan disingenuous or simply seeks to define Christian in their own preferred light.

Brits MADE your American history.

You were by and large mostly British. When Paul Revere made his ride he did not say, as the myth goes, the British are coming, why you were British.

The British were the ones that made the Mayflower Compact and it was British citizens that made the Federalist Papers, of which those papers had no real significance outside of New York toward the ratification of the Constitution. Already states had ratified it before they were published based on their own debates on the matter.

I will admit that Jewish values were in the states beginnings. But not Christian. Not once did they mention the two great commands, which are the very foundation of all law by Jesus. Nor do they once mention Jesus Christ specifically in any of these works, nor in the declaration of independence or the constitution. A rather strange thing to omit IF you are Christian, hence a follower of Christ.

So yes a brit has every ability and right to lecture US Citizens on their history if they forget crucial parts of it and then gloss it over with mythology created in the 19th and 20th centuries.

The United States was never a Christian nation, nor was meant to be Christian and never WILL be a Christian nation. It HAS Christians in it, but has no laws, no codes and shown no actions that make show it follows Christ.

It is a fallen, secular nation that regards God little more than a lucky charm they can hold up on their currency or wish things from like a jinn when things go pear shaped. It is the height of hypocrisy when a popular war song was praise the lord and pass the ammunition.

But do not fear. You are NOT alone. ALL the world has fallen and secular nations, filled with fear, anger, hate, hypocrisy and arrogance when it comes to elitist, insular and jingoist behaivour. Often with a dash of theism to justify their inhumanity.

 

[DogLady19]

Brits MADE your American history.

...
The United States was never a Christian nation, nor was meant to be Christian and never WILL be a Christian nation. It HAS Christians in it, but has no laws, no codes and shown no actions that make show it follows Christ.

...

I agree. Europeans (including UK) have a better grasp of American history than most Americans. I was raised in Europe and attended British and International schools, and I was astounded at how much more I know about our founding history than my fellow countrymen... For more than century now, US school text books adhere to legendary myths as truth, and this really perverts what really happened.

As for the 2nd statement you made, I will disagree with you... several of our founding fathers made it clear that this nation is to be built on Christian principles. Those principles are indeed codified... Our 1st supreme Court chief justice and author of several Federalist Papers, John Jay said: "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

He shares those same sentiments in Federalist Paper #2: "With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people--a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government..."

Patrick Henry said: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here."

 

[pom2014]

I agree. Europeans (including UK) have a better grasp of American history than most Americans. I was raised in Europe and attended British and International schools, and I was astounded at how much more I know about our founding history than my fellow countrymen... For more than century now, US school text books adhere to legendary myths as truth, and this really perverts what really happened.

As for the 2nd statement you made, I will disagree with you... several of our founding fathers made it clear that this nation is to be built on Christian principles. Those principles are indeed codified... Our 1st supreme Court chief justice and author of several Federalist Papers, John Jay said: "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

He shares those same sentiments in Federalist Paper #2: "With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people--a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government..."

Patrick Henry said: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here."

Jay in this quote was not endorsing a theocracy or any form of Christianity being the hallmark of the nation. Instead he was, as many will correctly note, that the nation had Christians and that in general Christian men and women at his time were the right people to choose as leaders. In no way was he saying that the nation should or is under Jesus Christ.

Your quote from Henry illuminates that concisely.

Sadly both men were optimists when it came to Christian people conducting themselves well even in their time, as is illuminated by slave owners and by those living on the frontiers that, through fear and anger, committed atrocities against aboriginal Americans. Jefferson and Franklin, although at odds sometimes, held firmly that men must be judged by their actions more than their creed. Of which I agree and so does Jesus. Funny that as neither would be titled Christian by most standards.

NOT A Christian nation, just ones WITH Christians.

We must always clarify these things so as not to fuel the mythology of divine right to the US. Trust me in the UK we played that card and it went very badly for us. Even to this day the UK feels its effects. Claiming God on your side is arrogant and down right blaspheme when you do not obey his commands.

 

[DogLady19]

Jay in this quote was not endorsing a theocracy or any form of Christianity being the hallmark of the nation. Instead he was, as many will correctly note, that the nation had Christians and that in general Christian men and women at his time were the right people to choose as leaders. In no way was he saying that the nation should or is under Jesus Christ.

Your quote from Henry illuminates that concisely.

Sadly both men were optimists when it came to Christian people conducting themselves well even in their time, as is illuminated by slave owners and by those living on the frontiers that, through fear and anger, committed atrocities against aboriginal Americans. Jefferson and Franklin, although at odds sometimes, held firmly that men must be judged by their actions more than their creed. Of which I agree and so does Jesus. Funny that as neither would be titled Christian by most standards.

NOT A Christian nation, just ones WITH Christians.

We must always clarify these things so as not to fuel the mythology of divine right to the US. Trust me in the UK we played that card and it went very badly for us. Even to this day the UK feels its effects. Claiming God on your side is arrogant and down right blaspheme when you do not obey his commands.

There is a HUGE difference between a theocracy and establishing a nation on Christian principles. I am in no way equating the two.

I see so many media pundits erroneously do that these days and gullible people will lap it up because it tickles their ears... You're right, it is a myth that we are divinely established, and it appears that only the atheists really believe that. I've yet to meet any Christians who promote such hogwash that our nation is a theocracy. People read what Christians say, then take their words out of context just to cause a media ruckus and make people hate God and/or hate Christianity. And these gullible people would not be so duped if they had a firmer grasp of our nation's history.

I agree with you that Jay, Henry, and the rest of our founders, believed that our republic was set up for a moral godly people. We cannot expect it to work with a nation full of immoral people.

"Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that our national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." -George Washington, 1796

 

[newlife]

There is increasing syncretism in American Christian beliefs, especially a merging of Christian and New Age belief systems. A survey in the US conducted by Pew Research in 2009 found that 20 percent of Protestants, 28 percent of Catholics and 11 percent of white evangelicals said that they believed in reincarnation. Also 18 percent of Protestants, 27 percent of Catholics and 12 percent of white evangelicals believed in yoga as a spiritual practice and not merely as a form of exercise. 49 percent of Americans claimed that have had a personal religious or mystical experience;18 percent claim that they have seen or been in touch with a ghost

 

[pom2014]

You do realise that even more people in the past believed on ghosts or had supernatural experiences?

And that at one time Christians believed there was a race of.dog headed men called, dogheads. There is even documentation that a middle ages priest asked a bishop if they should witness to dogheads. To which the bishop replied they must surely be made by God so yes.

 

[newlife]

I was mainly pointing out that there is increasing syncretism in American Christianity which was in response to HammerStone's observation about Christian syncretism in the Southern Hemisphere which is true. Syncretism is also occuring in Western Christianity (in addition to the fact that its influence is in decline) no doubt due in part to globalization and the media. Although there is a remanent of believers, very much on fire, Christianity in the main is increasingly becoming diluted and adulterated in the West. Secularist, humanist and atheistic trends which have been in process for a few centuries also continue to become more pervasive.

I was simply giving some statistics about religious and mystical experiences and belief in ghosts and was not trying to make the point that belief in the supernatural is increasing, although there is evidence of more people reporting supernatural experiences recently. For example according to Pew Research in regard to mystical or religious experiences or "a moment of religious or spiritual awakening" 22 percent of Americans reported having had this experience in 1962, 31 percent in 1976, 33 percent in 1994 and 49 percent in 2009. In 1996 nine percent of the population reported that they had seen or been in contact with a ghost and by 2009 that number had risen to 18 percent. In the past belief in the supernatural was widespread and axiomatic within Western culture and has since been supplanted by materialism, atheism and humanism in the scientific community, the universities and among the cultural inteligentsia. This is not necessarily the case among significant portions of the general population particularly in respect to mystical and supernatural experiences. There is little doubt nevertheless that orthodox Christianity is losing influence and adherents.

 

[pom2014]

I was mainly pointing out that there is increasing syncretism in American Christianity which was in response to HammerStone's observation about Christian syncretism in the Southern Hemisphere which is true. Syncretism is also occuring in Western Christianity (in addition to the fact that its influence is in decline) no doubt due in part to globalization and the media. Although there is a remanent of believers, very much on fire, Christianity in the main is increasingly becoming diluted and adulterated in the West. Secularist, humanist and atheistic trends which have been in process for a few centuries also continue to become more pervasive.

I was simply giving some statistics about religious and mystical experiences and belief in ghosts and was not trying to make the point that belief in the supernatural is increasing, although there is evidence of more people reporting supernatural experiences recently. For example according to Pew Research in regard to mystical or religious experiences or "a moment of religious or spiritual awakening" 22 percent of Americans reported having had this experience in 1962, 31 percent in 1976, 33 percent in 1994 and 49 percent in 2009. In 1996 nine percent of the population reported that they had seen or been in contact with a ghost and by 2009 that number had risen to 18 percent. In the past belief in the supernatural was widespread and axiomatic within Western culture and has since been supplanted by materialism, atheism and humanism in the scientific community, the universities and among the cultural inteligentsia. This is not necessarily the case among significant portions of the general population particularly in respect to mystical and supernatural experiences. There is little doubt nevertheless that orthodox Christianity is losing influence and adherents.

"For example according to Pew Research in regard to mystical or religious experiences or "a moment of religious or spiritual awakening" 22 percent of Americans reported having had this experience in 1962, 31 percent in 1976, 33 percent in 1994 and 49 percent in 2009. In 1996 nine percent of the population reported that they had seen or been in contact with a ghost and by 2009 that number had risen to 18 percent. "

Now put up how many books, TV shows and films have been produced in between those years and presently and how much these forms of fiction have grossed from their publication?

I think you'll find the corollary is actually financial and not heretical.

 

[newlife]

There is no doubt that television, radio programs, movies and books about the occult and New Age phenomena are a lucrative industry and that the media influences the world view of many people. My point is that traditional beliefs are being eroded and transformed even though some of the sources of change may have a mercenary motivation. Side by side with this naturalistic, materialistic, humanistic philosophy and explanations of reality underpin much of the intelectual framework of Western society.