The Deity of Jesus under attack on this forum.

[APAK]

Apak, I wouldn't interprety Romans 1:19-20 as you have.

Another subject we definitely need to get right GG, and not just the two of us...

GG, I deliberately did not address Romans 1:19-22, and not just 19-20 as you have it. It was to be ignored. It was added in as a reference point only, as a point of discussion of yours and Pearl's in your previous post.

And yes, Romans 1:19-22 is about all people having no excuse as they all have the ability to seek God, although they suppress it and eventually worship idols and theories of their own choosing and making, all from their own limited 'free' will. This again supports Romans 3:10-11. No one seeks God's righteousness, no one. Our free will only leads to self-righteousness.

And then your added in six new single verse scripture that seems to suggest that seeking God we can always find him and his righteousness. Of course they do not really mean such a thing. Remember these verses are attached to other verses and context. You have neglected to write the other verses and words of context. We must include them if it is truth in scripture we are seeking and not just our own imaginations and theories. We cannot generally gauge truth just from a single verse now can we?.

Going back to Romans 3:10-11 again. No one seeks God for his righteousness GG, no one! And then in John 1:10 again. The light that Christ carried into this fallen world, the gospel, that no one can understand, allows God, his Father, to prepare the heart for righteousness and salvation. We cannot begin to comprehend let alone think we can do this for ourselves. Our limited will is not equipped to perform this entire miracle although we do have a vital input.

Romans 1:16-17 says the gospel contains the power of God - for his righteousness and for our salvation sustained in the power of faith and not of ourselves of our so-called 'free' will GG.

John 17: 25: Jesus say to his righteous Father that the (fallen) world has not recognized or understood you (also in John 1:10). That kind of sums it all up.

Hope this clears things up a bit

 

[stephen64]

There's something wrong here, very wrong here.
You have a blessed day.
αγαπητοιG27 A-VPM μηG3361 PRT-N παντιG3956 A-DSN πνευματιG4151 N-DSN πιστευετεG4100 V-PAM-2P αλλαG235 CONJ δοκιμαζετεG1381 V-PAM-2P ταG3588 T-APN πνευματαG4151 N-APN ειG1487 COND εκG1537 PREP τουG3588 T-GSM θεουG2316 N-GSM εστινG1510 V-PAI-3S οτιG3754 CONJ πολλοιG4183 A-NPM ψευδοπροφηταιG5578 N-NPM εξεληλυθασινG1831 V-RAI-3P ειςG1519 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM κοσμονG2889 N-ASM
J.

Can I give you some advice? Put away the following:
αγαπητοιG27 A-VPM μηG3361 PRT-N παντιG3956 A-DSN πνευματιG4151 N-DSN πιστευετεG4100 V-PAM-2P αλλαG235 CONJ δοκιμαζετεG1381 V-PAM-2P ταG3588 T-APN πνευματαG4151 N-APN ειG1487 COND εκG1537 PREP τουG3588 T-GSM θεουG2316 N-GSM εστινG1510 V-PAI-3S οτιG3754 CONJ πολλοιG4183 A-NPM ψευδοπροφηταιG5578 N-NPM εξεληλυθασινG1831 V-RAI-3P ειςG1519 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM κοσμονG2889 N-ASM

 

[Johann]

Can I give you some advice? Put away the following:
αγαπητοιG27 A-VPM μηG3361 PRT-N παντιG3956 A-DSN πνευματιG4151 N-DSN πιστευετεG4100 V-PAM-2P αλλαG235 CONJ δοκιμαζετεG1381 V-PAM-2P ταG3588 T-APN πνευματαG4151 N-APN ειG1487 COND εκG1537 PREP τουG3588 T-GSM θεουG2316 N-GSM εστινG1510 V-PAI-3S οτιG3754 CONJ πολλοιG4183 A-NPM ψευδοπροφηταιG5578 N-NPM εξεληλυθασινG1831 V-RAI-3P ειςG1519 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM κοσμονG2889 N-ASM

Why, can't you read it?
J.

 

[stephen64]

Why, can't you read it?
J.

Nope, and I'm glad I cannot read it. Many like to study, study and study. They pour over the greek, or aramaic, or hebrew. They believe it better enlightens them concerning the message. They go to concordances and anything else they can get their hands to try and better understand with their academic minds. And where does all this tireless effort lead? So many end up questioning whether a person can truly be saved if they accept what is written in the bible concerning a particular matter. You end up contradicting the plainest of scripture all over the place
You learn much, much more if you seek to learn a different way

 

[stephen64]

Why, can't you read it?
J.

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1Cor1:19-21
Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 26-29
Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”; 20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile 1Cor3:18-20

 

[Johann]

Nope, and I'm glad I cannot read it. Many like to study, study and study. They pour over the greek, or aramaic, or hebrew. They believe it better enlightens them concerning the message. They go to concordances and anything else they can get their hands to try and better understand with their academic minds. And where does all this tireless effort lead? So many end up questioning whether a person can truly be saved if they accept what is written in the bible concerning a particular matter. You end up contradicting the plainest of scripture all over the place
You learn much, much more of the real truth if you seek to learn a different way

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Act_17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Exactly what I'm doing Steven since we are to redeem the time and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. And the studying and searching the scriptures is a daily vocation.
J.

 

[stephen64]

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Act_17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Exactly what I'm doing Steven since we are to redeem the time and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. And the studying and searching the scriptures is a daily vocation.
J.

Study by complete reliance on the Holy Spirit to learn, any other way will lead you into error. The academic who reads, and reads and reads, and goes to the greek, aramaic or hebrew and concordances and then ends up contradicting the words of Christ when he walked this earth, and will not accept the biblical requirement for salvation has wasted all that time and effort, for they have not been led of the Holy Spirit into truth

 

[stephen64]

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Act_17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Exactly what I'm doing Steven since we are to redeem the time and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. And the studying and searching the scriptures is a daily vocation.
J.

This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 the person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1Cor2:13&14

 

[Johann]

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1Cor1:19-21
Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 26-29
Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”; 20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile 1Cor3:18-20

And I fully concur, what Bible version are you using?
Just be careful you are using the scriptures
and not like a hammer since you think I am 'philosophizing'
At least you quoted a scripture, highlighting the parts addressed to me, and you don't know me from a bar of soap Steven.
This is the classic example of 'Christian" against 'Christian' and our warfare is not against flesh and blood...
I'll stand alone and won't engage in dialogue with you again.
My English is not that bad for a Afrikaaner who studied in English, dis as jy my kan verstaan.
Shalom to you and family
J.

 

[stephen64]

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Act_17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Exactly what I'm doing Steven since we are to redeem the time and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. And the studying and searching the scriptures is a daily vocation.
J.

The Holy Spirit does not rely on you reading the Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew texts to reveal to you spiritual truth. The best way, is to simply get down on your knees in prayer, ask God to show you the truth through His Spirit as you read your bible and trust him to do it.

 

[Johann]

This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 the person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1Cor2:13&14

Are you inferring that you have the indwelling Holy Spirit and I am void of Him, again, what Bible version are you using?
J.

 

[stephen64]

Are you inferring that you have the indwelling Holy Spirit and I am void of Him, again, what Bible version are you using?
J.

In the above? NIV. No, I am not inferring the Spirit is not in you, for you could not be a Christian if he wasn't. But if we do not rely on him to learn, we are only left with our academic minds, and they will not lead us into spiritual truth. Therefore, at the council of nicea, they were led by their academic minds, not the Holy Spirit for the reasons I have already clearly spelt out to you

 

[Johann]

In the above? NIV. No, I am not inferring the Spirit is not in you, for you could not be a Christian if he wasn't. But if we do not rely on him to learn, we are only left with our academic minds, and they will not lead us into spiritual truth. Therefore, at the council of nicea, they were led by their academic minds, not the Holy Spirit for the reasons I have already clearly spelt out to you

That was the council of Nicene's against the Arminians Steven, with good reason.
J.

 

[stephen64]

That was the council of Nicene's against the Arminians Steven, with good reason.
J.

Let me make this very clear. The bible was inspired by, and the truth that comes from it is from the Holy Spirit. Any contradiction as to the plain words of the bible is NOT Holy Spirit inspired. Therefore, to change the goalposts as to neccessary belief concerning the title of Christ to be saved as is written in scripture is most definatley not Holy Spirit leading. For God has never, from day one changed who you must believe Christ to be to inherit eternal life. You either follow the bible, or a church council 300 years after Christ died at Calvary

 

[Davy]

Good and informative post!

I happen to remember all this. Well, not from 1958 but pretty close.
And, by jove, it worked !!
The US has been ruined from the inside out...just as the plan stated. Including the Christian faith, as you've stated.

I find that Christianity is being diluted.
Jesus said whoever is ashamed of Him, He also will be ashamed of him before the glory of God.
Mark 8:38

Yep! And most Christians are not even familiar with that Communist strategy for the Christian Church. I'm older than many here, so I know what Communism is actually about, and fought against it for my country (U.S.).

Skousen's book The Naked Communist is a must read, all true Christians should read it. Another one is Golitsyn's 1984 book New Lies For Old; Golitsyn is an ex-KGB colonel that defected to the United States in the 1960's. He tried to warn the U.S. State Department about the disinformation strategy the Soviet Communists were working against the West. They wouldn't listen, so he asked permission to print the info in a book, and they OK'd it.

His 1984 book predicted the Soviets would allow the Berlin Wall to come down if it was time for the 3rd phase of their long-range 1958 strategy against the West. He also showed how the Soviet strategy had agents creep into both the Protestant and Catholic Churches, and how Moscow even held councils inviting Western Christian pastors and bishops to religious summits. No doubt, their religious agents work through Christian forums also like this one.

 

[Episkopos]

Yep! And most Christians are not even familiar with that Communist strategy for the Christian Church. I'm older than many here, so I know what Communism is actually about, and fought against it for my country (U.S.).

Skousen's book The Naked Communist is a must read, all true Christians should read it. Another one is Golitsyn's 1984 book New Lies For Old; Golitsyn is an ex-KGB colonel that defected to the United States in the 1960's. He tried to warn the U.S. State Department about the disinformation strategy the Soviet Communists were working against the West. They wouldn't listen, so he asked permission to print the info in a book, and they OK'd it.

His 1984 book predicted the Soviets would allow the Berlin Wall to come down if it was time for the 3rd phase of their long-range 1958 strategy against the West. He also showed how the Soviet strategy had agents creep into both the Protestant and Catholic Churches, and how Moscow even held councils inviting Western Christian pastors and bishops to religious summits. No doubt, their religious agents work through Christian forums also like this one.

Those Commies infiltrated the early church in Jerusalem...people selling all to have all things in common! Very un-American (and therefore evil!)

 

[TLHKAJ]

Let me repeat. I am not that concerned at the name given to the place Christ went to after his death at calvary, no. And that was your initial query. I would add, I hardly think of hell either in respect of where the unsaved go. I trust in my Saviour to keep me safe. Now if you want to discuss this subject more, please find someone who wants to discuss it with you. Or why not start a new thread on the subject. This one is about something else isnt it?

Why are you in this thread if you don't want to discuss anything? lol

 

[stephen64]

Why are you in this thread if you don't want to discuss anything? lol

Read my post again lol. What he wanted to talk about was not the subject matter of this thread

 

[TLHKAJ]

Nope, and I'm glad I cannot read it. Many like to study, study and study. They pour over the greek, or aramaic, or hebrew. They believe it better enlightens them concerning the message. They go to concordances and anything else they can get their hands to try and better understand with their academic minds. And where does all this tireless effort lead? So many end up questioning whether a person can truly be saved if they accept what is written in the bible concerning a particular matter. You end up contradicting the plainest of scripture all over the place
You learn much, much more if you seek to learn a different way

This is the best way of actually misunderstanding and misinterpreting scripture... and being led into false doctrine.

1. Use and put your trust in a version of the Bible that edits out God's Word.
2. Refuse knowledge that comes from knowing the original language.

All accurate Bible translations started with the scriptures in their original languages.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Read my post again lol. What he wanted to talk about was not the subject matter of this thread

This seems like a cop out.
It is his own thread. lol
Take a look for yourself. He can introduce supporting and related topics to his OP if he chooses.