The Deity of Jesus under attack on this forum.

[marks]

Don't defend. I'm only stating what is true. Taking things personally is from the outer man...defending the "purity" of your intentions from the inner man.

What I'm saying here is that you can share our personal opinions of me, and my posts, Like, You're taking this personally, You're getting defensive, That's pagan thinking, things like that, but that's off topic, and a distraction. It's just sharing negative opinions. We all have opinions, but that's all they are. When you look at this in logical terms, it's a fallacy in the context of debate.

I would very much like to stay with a discussion of the Bible, what it says, teaches, and not about your opinions of me. That's where we've gotten derailed in the past, I'd like to change things.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

The thing is, excepting the personal comments, you may be surprised to know that I agree nearly everything you say here. And emphatically so.

I think there is more to be said than that putting on Christ is putting on a covering, in that we are transformed ourselves to His image.

And concerning "with the premise of protecting something pure in themselves", perhaps, but I generally think that what happens is there is a knee-jerk flesh reaction, and we simply fail to stop it. This baby "new man" isn't too good at that yet. When he is more mature, he is better at stopping fleshy behaviors.

As I understand things, all that is not of faith is sin, and there is no faith in the outer man, only sin. Failing to impose the new man, our inner man, over the outer man, our body of flesh with it's mind descendant from Adam, results in sin, and all the difficulties we see on these threads.

Much love!

Mark, this is good! You know I don't say things lightly.

The is no baby "new man" however...but I know what you mean. Putting on Christ is putting on a fully grown Christ....in purity. However, our lack of maturity spoils things. So then WE are the babe in Christ...the spiritual infant (even if we are old) until we can joyfully suffer and not care that our outer man is beaten and crucified for the good of the inner man. A mature disciple doesn't flinch as His carnal essence is put to death...whether that be by character assassination or bodily. A "witness" of Christ is a martyr.

I have tried relating to you that we are not saved as an entire person until we are dead and broken in the outer man. Too often people will encourage the wrong part of us...for religious beliefs...rather than discerning what is to be torn down and what is to be built up.

Peace.

 

[Episkopos]

What I'm saying here is that you can share our personal opinions of me, and my posts, Like, You're taking this personally, You're getting defensive, That's pagan thinking, things like that, but that's off topic, and a distraction. It's just sharing negative opinions. We all have opinions, but that's all they are. When you look at this in logical terms, it's a fallacy in the context of debate.

I would very much like to stay with a discussion of the Bible, what it says, teaches, and not about your opinions of me. That's where we've gotten derailed in the past, I'd like to change things.

Much love!

Actually I'm trying to help you to see the inner man in yourself...which I want to rejoice in...and the outer man in you that reacts. What makes it difficult is that this forum is public. I meant no disrespect to you at criticizing your previous behaviour...I tend to forget what its like to care about those kind of things.

I need to be more careful.

 

[marks]

The is no baby "new man" however...but I know what you mean.

I agree, I could have worded that better.

"Unformed" would be the better term I think.

This is one of the reasons I love a good forum is to help me catch these things.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Sharing my experience: I firmly believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He’s always been God and will always be. He created the world. He + the Father + the Spirt are 3 persons in 1 God. But I do not ratify the Creeds, nor consider myself a Trinitarian because I cannot accept the Athanasain Creed’s statements of them being one through a shared substance, I just don’t find support for that. However, I love Christ, my Savior, wit every fiber of my being.

But because I do not ratify the Creeds, I am frequently branded a “cultist” by so many people whom just want to label others. They don’t want to talk with me about my love of Christ, they just want to tell me I’m dammed for a bunch of false accusations. It doesn’t matter what I say.

I don’t see Christ treating anyone that way, so neither do I. I welcome all, tell me of your love of Christ, let’s celebrate that, and see if we can learn / grow more.

Don't be concerned @Jane_Doe22, since I have joined this forum daily I hear strange terminologies, for example these creeds, I have to look them up on Google.
But like you, I have a hunger, a pathos and zeal to share the love of our Lord Christ Jesus unto all who would listen, to be mutually edified, to grow in the knowledge of Christ, more and more.
You are in safe hands.
I need a Aaron, since I am a man of stuttering lips and my metaphors are sometimes scrambled, hence misunderstanding over and over again.

You and I are in a race, our eyes firmly fixed upon Jesus Christ together with all the saints, laying aside all the impediments and weights...

This precious portion for you


Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

Isa 40:29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.

Isa 40:30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:

Isa 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Shalom
Speak the D'var, in season, out of season
J.

 

[Johann]

I agree, I could have worded that better.

"Unformed" would be the better term I think.

This is one of the reasons I love a good forum is to help me catch these things.

Much love!

Lol!
J.

 

[Johann]

I don’t see Christ treating anyone that way, so neither do I. I welcome all, tell me of your love of Christ, let’s celebrate that, and see if we can learn / grow more.

I'll talk to you all day long about the splendor and beauty of our blessed Lord and great God, Jesus Christ, I even studied the whole Isaiah 53 word for word and I am still stunned.
You are not alone.
J.

 

[marks]

Putting on Christ is putting on a fully grown Christ....in purity. However, our lack of maturity spoils things.

Our lack of maturity, demonstrated by how we can be tossed about by different teachings.

Ephesians 4:13-15 KJV
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

It seems our personal maturing in Christ is intrinsically bound up with those around us, that we will grow in unity of faith and knowledge, the strength and truth of our reliance on Christ, as we come to common understanding and faith.

So we put in the hours hoping to do that!



Much love!

 

[Johann]

So defend it, we don't silence anything related to this but strong condemnation of the trinity doctrine.

And you might want to reconsider your stance against monotheism. The Trinity is a monotheistic doctrine, despite what its detractors say...

Really apologize for coming on too strong
J.

 

[marks]

statements of them being one through a shared substance,

I don't even know what that means. It seems fine to me to leave this with how the Bible speaks of our Godhead, just think and talk the way the Bible does. Maybe I understand this a particular way, but at the heart, we are being conformed to His image, not to the creed's image.

And without the division of each our own opinions, we can join in the communion of the Spirit, and build each other in love, having united in our faith and knowledge of Christ.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Love of Christ is what makes a person a Christian.

Not their ability to pass a theology test.
Not their ability to live a perfect life.

again: focus on helping people grow in faith & knowledge, not flaming.

There you go @Jane_Doe22, in the power and strength of the Holy Spirit, the unction is there, let the lion loose, and step back, the word of our Lord is like a hammer, not to crush, but to heal, to soften calloused hearts.
Shalom
J.

 

[GEN2REV]

So defend it, we don't silence anything related to this but strong condemnation of the trinity doctrine.

And you might want to reconsider your stance against monotheism. The Trinity is a monotheistic doctrine, despite what its detractors say...

This is so refreshing. Thank you, Iforrest.

Though I know you did not intend to, and you are always respectful here, this post really put @Johann in his place.

So many passionate trinitarians don't even know their own doctrine. It is shameful and embarrassing.

Thank you for your tact.

I don't expect a response as I understand that you cannot take sides.

God bless.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Christianity Board Statement of Faith
Christianity Board Statement of Faith

From this link:

The below clearly outlines the core, closed-handed, and Christian orthodox issues that we expect members of Christianity Board to uphold. We accept that this declaration essentially defines Christianity for Christianity Board. Disagreement with the below, we believe, places one outside the realm of reasonable orthodox Christianity.

We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)

We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a completely sinless human life and offered himself freely on the cross as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all, according to God’s plan revealed from the beginning. After three days, Jesus arose from the dead to demonstrate his power over death. He ascended to heaven to await his future return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. (Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 9:6-7, Matthew 1:22-25, John 1:1-5, John 14:10-30, Acts 1:9-11, Romans 1:3-4, I Corinthians 15:3-4, I Timothy 6:14-15, Titus 2:3, Hebrews 4:14-15)

We believe that the Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and Son (Jesus). He is present in this world as an intercessor to make men and women aware of their need for Jesus the Christ. The Holy Spirit resides in every believer from the moment of salvation. He empowers the Christian with strength for living, understanding the truth, witnessing to others, and in doing what is right. (John 14:16-17, John 16:7-13, Acts 1:8, I Corinthians 2:12, I Corinthians 3:16, II Corinthians 3:17, Galatians 5:16-25, Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 5:18-21)

I agree with the above
J.

As do I. I also would like to point out.... "We accept that this declaration essentially defines Christianity" ....I have stated this in the other thread. I believe according to scripture, this is a determining factor as to whether a person is a Christian or not.

 

[marks]

this post really put @Johann in his place.

So many passionate trinitarians don't even know their own doctrine. It is shameful and embarrassing.

I think our posts sometimes reveal more about ourselves then they do others. Something to consider?

Much love!

 

[JunChosen]

Taken from, This Jesus, God resurrected!

I know for a fact from other threads in these forums, the writer of this thread is a JW and from the way he writes, he and his denomination does not believe that Jesus is God, Either Jesus was lying or He was telling the truth when He said in John 2:19-21 as we read:
19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20) Then said the Jews, forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21) But he spake of the temple of his body.
Verse 19 definitely declares JESUS IS GOD, for no mere man/mortal can utter those words spoken above unless HE IS GOD!

In another part of the Bible, Jesus in John 8:23:24 said:
23) And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24) I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.
Note that the word "he" is italicized meaning all italicized words in the KJV of the English Bible, is not in the original manuscript! IOW, Jesus is the "GREAT I AM" of the Old Testament!

Still at it, eh, Robert wanting to destroy God's people?.... Hosea 4:6.

 

[Johann]

You said it well @Ronald David Bruno


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

There's no more I can add but I do pray for unity among the brothers and sisters in Christ.
Shalom to you and family
J.

 

[BarneyFife]

Though I know you did not intend to, and you are always respectful here, this post really put @Johann in his place.

Perhaps we should call down fire from heaven onto him just in case.

 

[marks]

Perhaps we should call down fire from heaven onto him just in case.

Consuming Fire, fan into flame, a passion for Your Name! Spirit of God, fall on this place! Lord have Your way, with me.

Much love!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Sharing my experience: I firmly believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He’s always been God and will always be. He created the world. He + the Father + the Spirt are 3 persons in 1 God. But I do not ratify the Creeds, nor consider myself a Trinitarian because I cannot accept the Athanasain Creed’s statements of them being one through a shared substance, I just don’t find support for that. However, I love Christ, my Savior, wit every fiber of my being.

But because I do not ratify the Creeds, I am frequently branded a “cultist” by so many people whom just want to label others. They don’t want to talk with me about my love of Christ, they just want to tell me I’m dammed for a bunch of false accusations. It doesn’t matter what I say.

I don’t see Christ treating anyone that way, so neither do I. I welcome all, tell me of your love of Christ, let’s celebrate that, and see if we can learn / grow more.

Hi there, we have not shared yet as family.
Nice to meet you,Jane Doe of which you are not. You are a royal child of God, a chosen generation. Identified as a daughter of God!

I adhere to" thus saith the word", all God's doctrines can be found in our bibles. I do not stand in creeds,even though most are backed by the word.

There is coming a time of judgements from Jesus and the Father. Many will be surprised by those whom are welcomed in, and surprised by the many whom are not.

Love God,trust in He and his Son and walk and be led by the Holy Spirit. It matters not of others opinions nor judgements, God has the final say on the state of your soul,whether it is incorruptible or not.

 

[Wynona]

What is under attack is the Father's place in the Godhead. Rather than casting Him aside...we are to worship the Father in the name of the Son in the POWER of His Spirit. Worshiping God's Spirit is like worshiping His hands or His finger...or what He has done. Rather Jesus came to restore us to fellowship with His Father.

It's time that this Triune thing was exposed as based on tradition...NOT the words of God.

Of course Jesus is God...although lesser than the Father who is the MOST HIGH. Jesus is not the MOST HIGH. Again, that would be to take away from the Father.

The Father sent the Son into the world. The greater sends the lesser. And in like fashion Jesus sends us into the world.

Our God is Jesus' God. We call Him Father as Jesus does. Jesus is YHVH...the God of Israel come to earth in order that He might have pre-eminence over all things.

No one is more humble that the Lord Jesus. We learn from Him. He thought equality with being God to be nothing and became as nothing to please His Father.

Are we learning anything by His example?

Let me step into this minefield... Episkopos isn't saying Jesus isn't God, but arguing that the Father is greater: something that Jesus Himself said.

He definitely isn't saying that Jesus isn't God.