The Desecration of the Second Temple.

[Earburner]

Those is Revelation 6 are getting their personal spirit returned to them. Paul explains that the Holy Spirit is given to Adam's flesh and blood, because our spirit has always been with God. So when we put on that robe of white at the Second Coming, we no longer need the Holy Spirit, because we are now complete.

Are you believing that the Gift of God of Eternal Life shall be sustained by you, after your bodily resurrection?
I say, it cannot and will not, except by the PERMANENT INDWELLING of God Himself.

I perceive you are of those that believe that man is born with/given "an eternal soul", that was supposedly "BREATHED" into Adam, and since then, you conclude that every mortal person is likewise of your belief.

A simple factual and truthful study in Biology 101 will tell you differently. Unfortunately for Moses, the author of Genesis, that course was not available to Him. So, in and by his own limited mind, he called it for what he thought "breathing oxygenated air" was. However, in the end of his description , he did safely conclude that "man BECAME a livng soul, as do all air breathing animals.
Please see KJV-Genesis 7:21-22 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
[22] All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died

 

[Timtofly]

Are you believing that the Gift of God of Eternal Life shall be sustained by you, after your bodily resurrection?
I say, it cannot and will not, except by the PERMANENT INDWELLING of God Himself.

I perceive you are of those that believe that man is born with/given "an eternal soul", that was supposedly "BREATHED" into Adam, and since then, you conclude that every mortal person is likewise of your belief.

A simple factual and truthful study in Biology 101 will tell you differently. Unfortunately for Moses, the author of Genesis, that course was not available to Him. So, in and by his own limited mind, he called it for what he thought "breathing oxygenated air" was. However, in the end of his description , he did safely conclude that "man BECAME a livng soul, as do all air breathing animals.
Please see KJV-Genesis 7:21-22 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
[22] All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died

Science is based on the fallen corruptible dead body of flesh. Genesis 1 claims we are in God's image, body, soul, and spirit. Adam was all that then he physically died. Adam passed the dead image of sin and death onto Seth. Seth was not in the image of God. The sons of God created on the 6th day were still in the living breathing, fully functional image of God. They did not die, because of Adam's sin. Their offspring died, because they followed the wickedness of fallen sinful descendants of Adam's flesh and blood.

So science has no clue whatsoever what the image of God actually is. That image will be restored to the church at the Second Coming. That is what putting on the robe of white symbolizes. That is the change Paul declares at the Second Coming. The soul puts on a permanent sin free incorruptible physical body. Then the spirit is put on over that physical body, and we put on immortality or the full image of God. That does not make us God. That makes us sons of God in God's image. The Holy Spirit is just conforming the soul in preparation of the final restoration.

 

[Earburner]

We are in agreement. Our Treasure of the Promise of immortality is laid up in heaven; Written in the Book of Life.
That Book will be opened after the Millennium and if your name is found in it, then immortality is yours.

The treasure referred to in 2 Corinthians 4:7, is told to us in verse 6, is; ...the knowledge of the glory of God, thru our Lord Jesus.

Actually, the Glory of God is the Lord Jesus Himself, and through faith in Him, we all who believe, have now been granted access to the Throne of God Himself.
Through the shed Blood of Christ, He has made available to all, the Gift of God's very own Holy Spirit. To us-ward, He alone is the Vehicle by which God's Righteousness is NOW deposited within us.
For without Him, no man shall perceive the KoG, nor shall they be allowed to enter into it. Romans 8:8-9.

So then, for all who have not received the Gift of God's Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13), to enter into the KoG, the best that they can ever do, is to run parallel with it, observing it FROM THE OUTSIDE.

In Revelation 3:20, Jesus invites all who are of faith to do so. It is the very act of being "Born Again".

 

[Abigail]

I reject your position, because the Prophecy of Ezekiel 43:1-4 says that the Shekinah Glory of God will enter the new Temple.
Your belief is wrong, as a new Temple is plainly prophesied for the end times and for the Millennium. Zechariah 6:15

This rather wackadoodle idea conflicts with Revelation 20:12. A literal Book, literally opened and actual names found Written in it.

The souls kept under the heavenly Altar, are all the Christian martyrs.
Jesus opened the first five Seals at His Ascension. Revelation 5:7 Stephen was the first and their number is still being added to today.

Yes: that prophecy of Jesus was allegorical for His human body. It was rebuilt in 3 days; to a Spiritual body.
At this time, we Christians are the Spiritual Temple of God, on earth. That doesn't change, even though a new actual Temple will be built in Jerusalem.

Great! Thanks. I thought so but I wanted to be sure. Thanks again.

 

[Keraz]

There is no future "millennium" of your teaching, that is to come. The correct understanding, if I must use your term, is that we have been in a "millennium" of an undisclosed amount of time, ever since Pentecost.

Your AMill belief simply contradicts reality.
I posted the proof of a future Millennium in another thread. Here it is again:

The AMill false teaching:
Hosea 6:2 prophesies the 2000 year Christian age, our revival, then the 1000 years when we will live in His sight.
The formula for a day in heaven, being the equal to 1000 years earth time, is in: Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8

There is also the prophecy of Jesus in Luke 13:32, where He says: Today and tomorrow I shall be working...and the next day I shall come into My reward.
He then says: Nevertheless, [notwithstanding, or in spite of this...] I must go on today and tomorrow and the following day, for I must perish in Jerusalem. Luke 13:33
Jesus is NOT talking about the same time periods in both of these verses. If people like to think that; they make Him to be rather confused and unnecessarily repetitive.
No; He Prophesied in verse 32, how He will work for the Christian age of 2000 years. Now at 1991 years since He said that. Jesus does answer prayers, He does cure some people, He does appear to those who cry out to Him, etc.

The 'next day' is Gods reward to Jesus for His sacrifice, His reign over the world for the next thousand years, Psalms 2:7-9 Revelation 20:1-7 backs these scriptures up!
The AMill belief is illogical and unscriptural. It is a lie that denies Jesus His reward.

 

[Earburner]

Your AMill belief simply contradicts reality.
I posted the proof of a future Millennium in another thread. Here it is again:

The AMill false teaching:
Hosea 6:2 prophesies the 2000 year Christian age, our revival, then the 1000 years when we will live in His sight.
The formula for a day in heaven, being the equal to 1000 years earth time, is in: Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8

I do support some of that Amil belief, but I am in more of an upto date, hybrid belief system about it.
As I have said before, you won't be able to classify me by church-ianity's religious terms, or by their traditional concrete doctrines.

Yes, I am well aware of the scripture references you
posted, however churchianity's view of that position is in need of better understanding, in that perspective. They totally miss on their comments about the 3rd day.
Hosea 6[2] After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up,
and we shall live in his sight.
[3] Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
> Jesus Resurrected on the morning of the 3rd Day.
Therefore, prophetically speaking, so shall we be resurrected on the early part of the 3rd day.

For 1989 years of the prophetic 2000 years, we are in the Age of God's Grace through His Son. We have been, and are being "revived" and restored back to God in those prophetic 2 days.

Our bodily resurrection, into the likeness of Christ's immortality, will take place in the morning of the 3rd day, at the start of the 3000 years, having NO END.
From that moment on, we will forever be with the Lord, but we will not be coming back here on this OLD run down depleted earth. We will be where He is now, in Heaven with His Father. WE WILL BE IN the New heavens and the New earth, of which shall bear NO resemblance to this type of "earth" whatsoever, or how we live and exist in it today.

We ARE the "mansions" in His Father's House, which is Heavenly Jerusalem. Jesus is NOW, and has been "placing" us there, In Heavenly Jerusalem, one by one. God's Born Again Saints ARE the Heavenly Jerusalem, the very House of God.

I pray, that you are of the group in 2 Peter 3:13, that is not selling themselves out for the Jewish sham of a millennium on earth, which is now in the hands of their making.
2Pet.3[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

"Look up, your redemption draweth nigh", but it won't be here, to where He will take us!

Edit: Oh! I just realized that that I didn't mention the
Lord coming unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain, which is the out pouring of His Holy Spirit, since Pentecost, to all who ask for His free Gift in every generation, during the 2 Days/2000 yrs. Of God's Age of Grace.

 

[Keraz]

[3] Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
> Jesus Resurrected on the morning of the 3rd Day.
Therefore, prophetically speaking, so shall we be resurrected on the early part of the 3rd day.

This is a stretch!
Hosea 6:3 says nothing about resurrection. Neither does Revelation 20:1-10; only the GT martyrs, who are brought back to life, NOT yet made immortal.

Plain understanding of Hosea 6:2, is the 2000 year gap, in which we are revived, then the thousand year reign of King Jesus, where we will live in His Presence.
Proved by the hindsight of the 2000 years nearly past and the imminent end times events, culminating with the glorious Return of Jesus.

 

[Earburner]

This is a stretch!
Hosea 6:3 says nothing about resurrection. Neither does Revelation 20:1-10; only the GT martyrs, who are brought back to life, NOT yet made immortal.

Plain understanding of Hosea 6:2, is the 2000 year gap, in which we are revived, then the thousand year reign of King Jesus, where we will live in His Presence.
Proved by the hindsight of the 2000 years nearly past and the imminent end times events, culminating with the glorious Return of Jesus.

There is no stretch there. I have shown the difference between the two words of "revive" and "raise". For 2 days people are to be revived, but on the 3rd day, right at the start, people will be "raised", as in resurrected. Maybe it's simply the fact, that you can't spiritually discern the difference between those two words in the real life of a Christian.

Most assuredly, since Pentecost, many have been revived during the 2 prophetic days of God's Grace, but as far as I know, apart from Jesus, no one Has been bodily raised/resurrected into His immortality yet.

Jesus was resurrected on the start of the 3rd day.
If you are going to count the 2 days as 2000 literal years of time by that "formula", then you need to follow through and face the reality, that this world does not have much time left.

 

[Earburner]

Proved by the hindsight of the 2000 years nearly past and the imminent end times events, culminating with the glorious Return of Jesus.

And after the 2 prophetic days, comes the start of the 3rd prophetic day, our immediate bodily resurrection, upon the Glorious Return of Jesus
I hope that is what you are saying.

 

[Earburner]

Oh, and by the way, Jesus plainly describes what takes place in the start of the that 3rd prophetic day in Luke 17[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom
it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Keraz]

Most assuredly, since Pentecost, many have been revived during the 2 prophetic days of God's Grace, but as far as I know, apart from Jesus, no one Has been bodily raised/resurrected into His immortality yet.

Right. No one has become immortal yet. That will happen at the final Judgment, when the Book of Life will be opened; AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15, Daniel 7:9-10

I view the 'raising on the 3rd day', at the Return of Jesus, as the resurrection of the GT martyrs only.
It cannot be every dead or alive Christian, as that contradicts Revelation 20:4-5.

If you are going to count the 2 days as 2000 literal years of time by that "formula", then you need to follow through and face the reality, that this world does not have much time left.

I believe that we have about 10 years +/- 1 or 2.
That time is about right for all the Prophesies between Revelation 6:12 to 19:10 to take place. Commencing in the very near future.
What is certain, is that this world as it is now cannot continue on for much longer.

And after the 2 prophetic days, comes the start of the 3rd prophetic day, our immediate bodily resurrection, upon the Glorious Return of Jesus
I hope that is what you are saying.

I reject this belief. It simply isn't Biblical.
Noah did not become immortal. Lot did not become immortal. Why use them to push a Spiritual change at the Return?

 

[Earburner]

1. Right. No one has become immortal yet.
2. That will happen at the final Judgment, when the Book of Life will be opened;
3. AFTER the Millennium.
4. Revelation 20:11-15,
5. Daniel 7:9-10

1. Agreed
2. Agreed

3. Disagree. I perceive that since Pentecost, the period of a thousand years is spiritual, and because of God's Grace (not willing that any should perish....) that duration of time is what is in the hands of the Father only. It is by His judgment that time shall be shortened or not.
Jesus hinted to it in Luke 18:8 , as to what His Father's "measuring stick" is, and that it is for people to have simple faith to believe "that God is". Hebrews 11:6.
When the MoB is issued on global scale, that simplest of faith shall be sorely tried. Revelation 3:10. It will be that "hour of temptation that shall try all the world", and shall indeed separate the goats from God's sheep.

4. I agree to that scripture, but not in the literal sense. When one truly perceives what is said in John 3:18 and in Revelation 20:15, it will be clearly understood that there will be no literal face to face judgment by God the Father, with anyone.
Why? John 5:22-29
John.5[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.
A similar situation applies for Christians, but in that case, we are in essence face to face with God, because we answered His call to repentance and belief.
However, we must understand how that all transpires, and when.
No Born Again Christian is ever going to be judged in a future appearing before "the judgement seat of Christ". Why? Again John 3:18.
We HAVE already "appeared" before Him, by our repentance through "belief", and did receive the Promise of the Gift of His Eternal Life, being the Holy Spirit of God. As long as we maintain belief/faith in Him, our judgment now is only His chastisement, and never a judgment unto condemnation.

5. I agree with the scripture, but not in the timing or location of how church-ianity interprets it
Daniel 7:13 is a separate vision, of which is taking place in Heaven, before Jesus' first appearance
[13] I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds [angels] of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they [angels] brought him near before him.
[14] And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
> It is in Heaven, at God the Father's Throne, of when Jesus is "brought before Him", that Jesus is then given His kingdom by the Father. That is why and how Jesus could say: "My kingdom is not of this world."
The beginning of it, was in His first appearance.

 

[Earburner]

I reject this belief. It simply isn't Biblical.
Noah did not become immortal. Lot did not become immortal. Why use them to push a Spiritual change at the Return?

??
I never said or implied that Noah, or anyone is immortal, except Jesus.
You have misunderstood what I said concerning what I was pointing to, which I should have referenced.
I said: "And after the 2 prophetic days, comes the start of the 3rd prophetic day, our immediate bodily resurrection, upon the Glorious Return of Jesus
I hope that is what you are saying."
Thus my scripture reference is 1 Corinthians 15
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, [as Noah, Lot etc.] but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we [who are alive and remaining] shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
[56] The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
[57] But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
See also 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 for the details of that event of Christ's return "in flaming fire", in the KJV, and please notice the word "when", and what two situations are being pointed to by it's use. Specifically, see verses- 7 and 10, then compare that with Luke 17:29.

 

[Earburner]

^ KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
What takes place "in that day", are TWO simultaneous events
1. The redemption of ALL the Saints.
2. The destruction of ALL the unsaved wicked, including all the graves.

 

[Keraz]

3. Disagree. I perceive that since Pentecost, the period of a thousand years is spiritual,

It is stated very literally, six times in Revelation 20. An actual thousand years.

4. I agree to that scripture, but not in the literal sense. When one truly perceives what is said in John 3:18 and in Revelation 20:15, it will be clearly understood that there will be no literal face to face judgment by God the Father, with anyone.

Rev 20:11 and Daniel 7:9-10 clearly say it will be Almighty God who sits on the Great White Throne.
However, what happens then, is not a court trial, but simply the opening of the Book of Life. That Book has already had everyone who has ever lived name Written in it. When they were born.
As their life progresses and they make choices; according to what they have been taught or from their own conscience, as Paul tell us in Romans 1:19-23, then the result of the wrong choice; a breaking of the Commandments, will result in their name being erased from the Book of Life. Exodus 32:33, Psalms 69-28 and Revelation 3:5 states that it is Jesus' prerogative to strike a name off the Book of Life.
So; in fact Jesus is the Judge, for all time.

5. I agree with the scripture, but not in the timing or location of how church-ianity interprets it

Daniel 7:9-10 cannot be anything other that the same event as Revelation 20:11-15.
Because it is placed in a different sequence in Daniel, does not mean it fits there. Isaiah 28:13 tells us how Prophecy is a little here, a little there. Only Revelation gives the general, correct sequence.

I never said or implied that Noah, or anyone is immortal, except Jesus.

But you believe in a change; a glorification of our bodies when Jesus Returns.
This means immortality, what else?

Your trotting out of 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, shows how confused you are.
That prophecy is all about what happens after the GWT Judgment. Proved by how it is then that Death is no more. Revelation 21:4

^ KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
What takes place "in that day", are TWO simultaneous events
1. The redemption of ALL the Saints.
2. The destruction of ALL the unsaved wicked, including all the graves.

This prophecy refers to the Sixth Seal event.
Verse 10 says.. He will reveal His glory, NOT that He will glorify anyone.
Many of the ungodly peoples will remain after the Sixth Seal. They will hide under shelter.

I view your beliefs as church-ianity of the worst kind.

 

[Earburner]

Your trotting out of 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, shows how confused you are.
That prophecy is all about what happens after the GWT Judgment. Proved by how it is then that Death is no more. Revelation 21:4

Please compare how complicated it is, that church-ianity has interpreted it to be, as opposed to how one learns "by His Spirit", "His thoughts and ways".
Isaiah 55:8-9, Zechariah 4:6, John 16:13.

Death is no more "in that day" of His Glorious return.
1. Redemption of ALL the Saints = no more death.
2. The destruction of ALL the unsaved wicked, including all the graves = no more death.

 

[Earburner]

It is stated very literally, six times in Revelation 20. An actual thousand years.

And the point of it all, from your perspective is, another thousand years of human suffering and anguish, under a visible, dictatorial kingdom of God, on a refurbished/remodeled earth, with another Jewish temple building to boot.

That sounds strangely synonymous with the present Jewish/Zionist view of "The Great Reset", that is now being orchestrated among all the nations, to "Save The Earth".
Sorry, I can't go there, and I won't.

My thinking is more in line with:
2Pet.3[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements [the earth], shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth [God's] righteousness.

 

[Earburner]

But you believe in a change; a glorification of our bodies when Jesus Returns.
This means immortality, what else?

Of course I do believe that.
I was simply stating, that at the moment, only Jesus has immortality.

However, when He appears from Heaven, we shall BE instantly CHANGED INTO His present likeness.
1Cor.15[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1John.3[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

After Jesus' resurrection, being the Firstborn from the dead, is not Jesus NOW immortal?
Of course He is!! And so shall we be changed also into His likeness, "in that day".

The next event on God's Calendar (not satan's or man's) is Jesus' sudden and Glorious return in flaming fire. So then, who is "ready" and who is not?
Romans 8:8-9 will be the outcome for both.

 

[APAK]

KJV Daniel 9:26-27, in verse 26, which "he" is being talked about in verse 27?
Is it "the prince?
Or is it the Messiah?
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Answer: the Messiah

John.5[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of ME.

Yes to confirm and complete the covenant that already existed, not to create a new one..

 

[Earburner]

APAK, yes you answered and agreed correctly, that it was Jesus, who is the "he" that is being talked about in Daniel 9:27.

"Let scripture define doctrine, and not doctrine define scripture".- Earburner