The Desecration of the Second Temple.

[1stCenturyLady]

It's a hard thing for most professing Christians to accept, that ONLY those Jews who put their faith in Jesus as their Savior, and receive His Holy Spirit shall be saved. God cannot and will not save someone against their will. Nor does He save them in spite of themselves.
Romans 8:8-9 is very clear on that, and what it is exactly that we MUST BE in possession of.
Religious activity, correct doctrine and/or copying and mimicking Christ, is not the requirement that makes us to be one of His.

I was in church for 30 years without the indwelling of Christ's Spirit on the inside of me. That is where most Christians are today. It wasn't until 45 years ago that I finally received the Spirit and my old nature was physically taken out of me and it was replaced with a divine nature of Christ. Wow, what a difference abiding in Jesus and He in me makes!

 

[Keraz]

I was in church for 30 years without the indwelling of Christ's Spirit on the inside of me. That is where most Christians are today. It wasn't until 45 years ago that I finally received the Spirit and my old nature was physically taken out of me and it was replaced with a divine nature of Christ. Wow, what a difference abiding in Jesus and He in me makes!

So: are you immortal now?
Your 'old nature' physically removed? Like an appendectomy?

I suggest that you and all who have fanciful notions of 'holier than thou', rethink your beliefs in the light of reality.
Paul said that people would fall for fables in the end times; 2 Timothy 4:3-4

 

[Earburner]

We have the Promise of Eternal Life. John 3:16 does not say it comes immediately.
We receive Eternal life when the Book of Life is opened and our name is found in it. Revelation 20:12

Everlasting righteousness is also a part of the Eternal life, not our situation at present.
Your theories are refuted by the facts of our mortal life and prevalent unrighteousness.

It is quite evident that you cannot discern my words of meaning.
Therefore, you should go to God and ask Him what the following means:
Matt.6[19] Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:[20] But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
[21] For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

John.3[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
2Cor.4[7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Earburner]

I was in church for 30 years without the indwelling of Christ's Spirit on the inside of me. That is where most Christians are today. It wasn't until 45 years ago that I finally received the Spirit and my old nature was physically taken out of me and it was replaced with a divine nature of Christ. Wow, what a difference abiding in Jesus and He in me makes!

Amen! Thanks for sharing your personal testimony of being born again of/by His Holy Spirit.

Yes, I agree. There are many professing Christians, in the visible churches, of whom I classify as being "half baked".

They have come to God, through faith in Jesus, and have had their sins forgiven of them through His Blood, but then they STOP right there and proceed no further. In essence they are the "many called", but have fallen short of becoming the "few chosen".
They neglect and/or refuse to ask for and receive the Free Gift of His Holy Spirit. Luke 11:13.

In all actuality, that is a dangerous situation to be in. Jesus refers to it as one who is "lukewarm".
Rev.3[16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

The sure cure for that situation, is John 3:3-8 and Luke 11:13. By following through, they can be assured that Romans 8:9 won't happen to them.
But, if they do not receive His Holy Spirit, then by their neglect, should they die in that state/condition, they remain to be "the workers of iniquity".
They were never "sealed unto the day of redemption" by His Holy Spirit.

It really is a serious situation in the visible churches. Quite a number of Pastors and Bible Teachers, behind the pulpits, don't know that they themselves may also be "lukewarm".
Jesus revealed all of that in the parable of the Ten Virgins.

 

[Keraz]

It is quite evident that you cannot discern my words of meaning.
Therefore, you should go to God and ask Him what the following means:
Matt.6[19] Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:[20] But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
[21] For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

John.3[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
2Cor.4[7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

We are in agreement. Our Treasure of the Promise of immortality is laid up in heaven; Written in the Book of Life.
That Book will be opened after the Millennium and if your name is found in it, then immortality is yours.

The treasure referred to in 2 Corinthians 4:7, is told to us in verse 6, is; ...the knowledge of the glory of God, thru our Lord Jesus.

 

[Earburner]

We are in agreement. Our Treasure of the Promise of immortality is laid up in heaven; Written in the Book of Life.
That Book will be opened after the Millennium and if your name is found in it, then immortality is yours.

The treasure referred to in 2 Corinthians 4:7, is told to us in verse 6, is; ...the knowledge of the glory of God, thru our Lord Jesus.

We are not in agreement yet.
John.14[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Luke.17[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Church-ianity = the Holy Spirit dwells outside their bodies.
Christ-ianity = the Holy Spirit dwells within their bodies.

Luke 11:13, Romans 8:8-9, Revelation 3:20
John 3:3-8.

 

[Earburner]

Our Treasure of the Promise of immortality is laid up in heaven; Written in the Book of Life.
That Book will be opened after the Millennium and if your name is found in it, then immortality is yours.

Who is the Book of Life? Is it not the same person who is the Tree of Life?
And for me to say the following, your human mind won't be able to handle it:
To be "in Jesus", is to be in the kingdom of heaven (KoH), because if a man is not born again of the Holy Spirit, they cannot see (perceive) or enter "into" the kingdom of God, aka the "KoH".

So then to say that my name is written in Heaven and/or the Book of Life, is to say that I am "in Jesus".
And by the way do you see how that is, in understanding what He means?
Isaiah 49[16] Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.

 

[Keraz]

Luke.17[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I have never said this is not the case. WE Christians are the Spiritual Temple of God, for this Church age.
This truth does not preclude a new Temple being built in Jerusalem. We build churches and Cathedrals, a new Temple will be the focal point for Christian worship. It will be dedicated to God, as Paul says in 2 Thess 2:4

Who is the Book of Life? Is it not the same person who is the Tree of Life?

No, that idea is just confusion.
Malachi 3:16-17 mentions a literal Book, where the names of the righteous people are Written.

 

[Earburner]

I have never said this is not the case. WE Christians are the Spiritual Temple of God, for this Church age.
This truth does not preclude a new Temple being built in Jerusalem. We build churches and Cathedrals, a new Temple will be the focal point for Christian worship. It will be dedicated to God, as Paul says in 2 Thess 2:4

But I justified my position with what the prophet said about how and where God WILL NOT dwell.
See Acts 7:48

No, that idea is just confusion.
Malachi 3:16-17 mentions a literal Book, where the names of the righteous people are Written.

Didn't I warn you that "your human mind wouldn't be able to handle it"?
Please re-read lsaiah 55:8-9, and Zechariah 4:6.

The "Book of Remembrance", Malachi 3:16, was for Israel, and not the church of Christ. Only AFTER Pentecost, could they then have their names moved into the Book of Life, who is Jesus.
We see that transition of them being under the altar, and receiving white robes, which is symbolic of the Gift of the Holy Spirit being given to them.
Rev. 6[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
[11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Edit: by the way, the transition was made WHEN they were given the Holy Spirit. One must not forget that in the age of "the transgression" (OC), the Holy Spirit of Christ could not be given to them. They were still waiting for "the Promise to come". Therefore, all Jews who were in the book of Remembrance, died without Christ, but God did not forget them.

 

[Earburner]

^ In regards to the Holy Spirit (white robes), we can know that those under the altar were NOT Christians.
Why?
On this side of Pentecost, people of faith, can only become a Christian, AFTER they have received the Holy Spirit, that is, WHILE they are still breathing, being alive in their mortal flesh.
No one today can receive the Holy Spirit after their physical death.

 

[Timtofly]

^ In regards to the Holy Spirit (white robes), we can know that those under the altar were NOT Christians.
Why?
On this side of Pentecost, people of faith, can only become a Christian, AFTER they have received the Holy Spirit, that is, WHILE they are still breathing, being alive in their mortal flesh.
No one today can receive the Holy Spirit after their physical death.

What proof do you have that a robe of white is the Holy Spirit? You gave no Scriptural support for this alledged doctrine.

 

[Earburner]

No, that idea is just confusion.
Malachi 3:16-17 mentions a literal Book, where the names of the righteous people are Written

I don't see a literal Book in verse 16. Only God would know "who was thinking upon His name".
Therefore, the book is in His domain, not ours, which most likely is in His own Remembrance, and that would be the extent of it.

16 Then they that feared Jehovah spake one with another; and Jehovah hearkened, and heard, and a book of remembrance was written before him, for them that feared Jehovah, and that thought upon his name.
.

 

[Abigail]

I thought the destruction of the temple was a metaphor. Jesus said the temple would be shaken to its foundation but would be rebuilt in three days. That was a allegory(?) about his pending crucifixion and resurrection I thought.

 

[Keraz]

But I justified my position with what the prophet said about how and where God WILL NOT dwell.

I reject your position, because the Prophecy of Ezekiel 43:1-4 says that the Shekinah Glory of God will enter the new Temple.
Your belief is wrong, as a new Temple is plainly prophesied for the end times and for the Millennium. Zechariah 6:15

The "Book of Remembrance", Malachi 3:16, was for Israel, and not the church of Christ. Only AFTER Pentecost, could they then have their names moved into the Book of Life, who is Jesus.

This rather wackadoodle idea conflicts with Revelation 20:12. A literal Book, literally opened and actual names found Written in it.

In regards to the Holy Spirit (white robes), we can know that those under the altar were NOT Christians.

The souls kept under the heavenly Altar, are all the Christian martyrs.
Jesus opened the first five Seals at His Ascension. Revelation 5:7 Stephen was the first and their number is still being added to today.

I thought the destruction of the temple was a metaphor. Jesus said the temple would be shaken to its foundation but would be rebuilt in three days. That was a allegory(?) about his pending crucifixion and resurrection I thought.

Yes: that prophecy of Jesus was allegorical for His human body. It was rebuilt in 3 days; to a Spiritual body.
At this time, we Christians are the Spiritual Temple of God, on earth. That doesn't change, even though a new actual Temple will be built in Jerusalem.

 

[Earburner]

What proof do you have that a robe of white is the Holy Spirit? You gave no Scriptural support for this alledged doctrine.

2 Cor. 5:3 is a most crucial verse to understand.
It's not a literal white robe of cloth that shall be given to us, but rather the indwelling presence of God's Holy Spirit within us, will instantly transform/change us into the likeness of Christ's immortality, in the moment of His visible appearance from Heaven.

The words "white robes" is symbolic of the Righteousness of God within us, and the vehicle of His Righteousness to us, is the Holy Spirit given to be WITHIN us.
But if He is not within you, then on the day of Christ's SUDDEN and Glorious appearance, the latter part of Romans 8:9 WILL APPLY!

All Born Again Christians do have God's covering/sealing within them right now. It is the Holy Spirit within us who shall react to Jesus' Glorious presence, thus instantly changing us into His LIKENESS of His immortality. By having Him within us now, WE ARE READY AT ALL TIMES to greet the Savior on that Day.

2Cor.5[2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven [and is right now inside us, waiting to activate our flesh into His immortality]:
[3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
[4] For we that are in this tabernacle [mortal flesh] do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life [Jesus' New life].

Rev.3[4] Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
[5] He that overcometh , the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
[18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire [the baptism of the Holy Spirit BY Christ. Revelation 3:20] that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Rev.7[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb [the Day of resurrection], clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
[13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out OF great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
That is not talking about a specific short window of time, that you surmize. It's talking about ALL Born Again Christians SINCE PENTECOST, who have come out of great tribulation in their lifetime.
All Born Again Saints HAVE washed their robes, and made them white.....IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB.
The only way anyone "washes their robe WHITE", is by the indwelling presence and power of God's Holy Spirit.

God forbid if there be any professing Christian, who doesn't HAVE His power of God's Righteousness (the Holy Spirit) within them. It's the ONLY Righteousness that EXCEEDS that of our own "form of godliness (righteousness)", which is by/through the Law.

 

[Earburner]

I reject your position, because the Prophecy of Ezekiel 43:1-4 says that the Shekinah Glory of God will enter the new Temple.
Your belief is wrong, as a new Temple is plainly prophesied for the end times and for the Millennium. Zechariah 6:15

This rather wackadoodle idea conflicts with Revelation 20:12. A literal Book, literally opened and actual names found Written in it.

The souls kept under the heavenly Altar, are all the Christian martyrs.
Jesus opened the first five Seals at His Ascension. Revelation 5:7 Stephen was the first and their number is still being added to today.

Yes: that prophecy of Jesus was allegorical for His human body. It was rebuilt in 3 days; to a Spiritual body.
At this time, we Christians are the Spiritual Temple of God, on earth. That doesn't change, even though a new actual Temple will be built in Jerusalem.

"Ezekiel 43:1-4 says that the Shekinah Glory of God will enter the new Temple."
> And indeed He has!!
Jesus Himself is the Glory of God, and by His Holy Spirit, He enters the Temple bodies of each of us, who ARE Born again, being baptized by the Holy Spirit. Revelation 3:20.
There are numerous verses describing Jesus Himself, as being "the Glory of God". Here are few to start with:
Hebrews 1:3
John 11:40
John 14:8-9
Luke 2:9
John 1:14
Luke 9:32

 

[Earburner]

The souls kept under the heavenly Altar, are all the Christian martyrs.
Jesus opened the first five Seals at His Ascension. Revelation 5:7 Stephen was the first and their number is still being added to today.

And so those who were of Israel, in the age of "the transgression", who were slaughtered and/or persecuted, are not "remembered" by God, and therefore will have no part in the resurrrection?

Are you saying that their names are now not written in Heaven? If so, then that means that their names are not wtitten in the book of life EITHER, and they are lost because they never received the Holy Spirit.

Remember, whoever (Jew or Gentile) does not have the Holy Spirit, lS NONE OF HIS.

 

[Earburner]

Your belief is wrong, as a new Temple is plainly prophesied for the end times and for the Millennium. Zechariah 6:15

15 And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of Jehovah; and ye shall know that Jehovah of hosts hath sent me unto you. And [this] shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of Jehovah your God.

Are we not each a temple of the Living God?
1Cor.3[10] According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
[11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
[12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[Timtofly]

2 Cor. 5:3 is a most crucial verse to understand.
It's not a literal white robe of cloth that shall be given to us, but rather the indwelling presence of God's Holy Spirit within us, will instantly transform/change us into the likeness of Christ's immortality, in the moment of His visible appearance from Heaven.

The words "white robes" is symbolic of the Righteousness of God within us, and the vehicle of His Righteousness to us, is the Holy Spirit given to be WITHIN us.
But if He is not within you, then on the day of Christ's SUDDEN and Glorious appearance, the latter part of Romans 8:9 WILL APPLY!

All Born Again Christians do have God's covering/sealing within them right now. It is the Holy Spirit within us who shall react to Jesus' Glorious presence, thus instantly changing us into His LIKENESS of His immortality. By having Him within us now, WE ARE READY AT ALL TIMES to greet the Savior on that Day.

2Cor.5[2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven [and is right now inside us, waiting to activate our flesh into His immortality]:
[3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
[4] For we that are in this tabernacle [mortal flesh] do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life [Jesus' New life].

Rev.3[4] Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
[5] He that overcometh , the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
[18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire [the baptism of the Holy Spirit BY Christ. Revelation 3:20] that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Rev.7[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb [the Day of resurrection], clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
[13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out OF great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
That is not talking about a specific short window of time, that you surmize. It's talking about ALL Born Again Christians SINCE PENTECOST, who have come out of great tribulation in their lifetime.
All Born Again Saints HAVE washed their robes, and made them white.....IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB.
The only way anyone "washes their robe WHITE", is by the indwelling presence and power of God's Holy Spirit.

God forbid if there be any professing Christian, who doesn't HAVE His power of God's Righteousness (the Holy Spirit) within them. It's the ONLY Righteousness that EXCEEDS that of our own "form of godliness (righteousness)", which is by/through the Law.

Stephen was the first martyr. He definitely was already filled with the Holy Spirit.

"But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,"

How can you turn around and claim he was not because he was not wearing a white robe?

You are comparing two different experiences and calling it one and the same.

Those is Revelation 6 are getting their personal spirit returned to them. Paul explains that the Holy Spirit is given to Adam's flesh and blood, because our spirit has always been with God. So when we put on that robe of white at the Second Coming, we no longer need the Holy Spirit, because we are now complete.

The Holy Spirit does work from within. As sons of God in the full image of God, having our spirit around the physical body turns us into lights that shine like the stars. Obviously we do not do that literally now. We shine the spiritual light of the Holy Spirit within us.

 

[Earburner]

At this time, we Christians are the Spiritual Temple of God, on earth. That doesn't change, even though a new actual Temple will be built in Jerusalem.

Because of your belief in the Jewish view of what you think that "a thousand years" is, you are filtering all NT scripture through it, and therefore conclude that the Jerusalem that is now in Israel, is God's greatest concern.
It is quite evident that you have forgotten about Heavenly Jerusalem, or you simply don't understand it.
To be point blank it is NOT a bunch of buildings "made with hands", nor is it similar to how men think of what God is making. Heavenly Jerusalem is God's saved people, in whom He dwells within.

Allegorically, there are only two women, who are "mothers", that is being spoken of in the NT scriptures.

Gal. 4[19] My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
[20] I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
[21] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
[22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
[23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
[24] Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
[25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
[26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
[27] For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
[28] Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
[29] But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
[30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
[31] So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

> Jerusalem, that we NOW see in Israel, has been cast out, aka "is fallen".
It is of the Old Covenant, and though it is rejected (cast out) by God, erroneously church-ianity STILL EMBRACES IT, and therefore blends the two covenants together, fabricating their false religious concepts, theories and doctrines.

There is no future "millennium" of your teaching, that is to come. The correct understanding, if I must use your term, is that we have been in a "millennium" of an undisclosed amount of time, ever since Pentecost.
And the reason for it, is that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should ( might) come to repentance towards God, through His Son.
2 Peter 3:8-13