The Desecration of the Second Temple.

[Keraz]

Which temple did Herod the great build because it obviously wasn't the first or the second?

That Temple is still referred to by scholars as the Second Temple.
Even though Herod did virtually rebuild it.
The Romans totally destroyed it in 70 AD.

This is part of the reason that the reformers concluded that the Pope is Antichrist. In my mind, the jury is still out.

The Pope has never fulfilled what is Prophesied about the yet to come Anti-Christ.
The Pope and the RCC will be destroyed by the end times Anti-Christ. Revelation 17:16-18

 

[michaelvpardo]

That Temple is still referred to by scholars as the Second Temple.
Even though Herod did virtually rebuild it.
The Romans totally destroyed it in 70 AD.

The Pope has never fulfilled what is Prophesied about the yet to come Anti-Christ.
The Pope and the RCC will be destroyed by the end times Anti-Christ. Revelation 17:16-18

I never thought that the Pope "fit" the description, but I can't see any priesthood or priestly "class" as a faithful expression of Christianity.

 

[Earburner]

I never thought that the Pope "fit" the description, but I can't see any priesthood or priestly "class" as a faithful expression of Christianity.

The priesthood is described in John 3:3-8, Luke 11:9-13, Romans 8:8-9, Revelation 3:20.

Jesus reveals that when the KoG was taken from Israel, It would be given to the saints, who are Born Again of the Holy Spirit, and are peppered among the "tares" of "church-ianity" (the visible churches).
Matthew 21:43.

So, for one to say that everyone in a church, or a particular church, is "chosen", just because they are signed up as members, is sadly mistaken.
Jesus DID SAY: "Ye MUST BE born again [by the Spirit of God]".
Therefore, for all who ARE Born Again, they ARE members of that "chosen generation", aka the "royal priesthood".
1 Peter 2[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

 

[Heart2Soul]

do you mean they are going to build a temple and they don't know why/what its purpose is?

The Jewish people are still waiting for the Messiah to come (since they disregard Jesus as the messiah)....so according to prophesy there has to be a temple for him to enter and sit upon the throne.
Believers know better but still prophesy MUST be fulfilled even when done in ignorance and unbelief.

 

[michaelvpardo]

The priesthood is described in John 3:3-8, Luke 11:9-13, Romans 8:8-9, Revelation 3:20.

Jesus reveals that when the KoG was taken from Israel, It would be given to the saints, who are Born Again of the Holy Spirit, and are peppered among the "tares" of "church-ianity" (the visible churches).
Matthew 21:43.

So, for one to say that everyone in a church, or a particular church, is "chosen", just because they are signed up as members, is sadly mistaken.
Jesus DID SAY: "Ye MUST BE born again [by the Spirit of God]".
Therefore, for all who ARE Born Again, they ARE members of that "chosen generation", aka the "royal priesthood".
1 Peter 2[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

I'm familiar with the "priesthood of the saints",but if all saints are priests do we take turns receiving the tithes of other priests? Do we sit in confessional hearing each other's sins? Do we place ourselves in the seat of God or make ourselves intercessors for other saints?
Hogwash.

We are priests only by virtue of Christ and in receiving His Spirit have power to intercede for those "outside" the church, though these may be sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, coworkers on our vocations, our doctors and dentists, our political leaders, or anyone who doesn't know Christ.

 

[Davy]

24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. Acts 17:24-25
This is part of the reason that the reformers concluded that the Pope is Antichrist. In my mind, the jury is still out.

Yes, the Protestant Reformers thought in their day that the pope was the Antichrist, because of how the then RCC killed many protestants whom they deemed as heretics. Yet the Biblical prophecy did not pan out like they thought. The pope was not the Antichrist, and still isn't.

But there still is a 'political movement' within Protestant Christianity today that still sees the pope as the Antichrist. It's a 'political' movement, because the fact that we are centuries past the 15th-16th century Protestant movement, and the Bible prophecy they thought was coming to pass then did not pan out, you'd think they'd have learned their lesson that the pope was not the Antichrist. To keep pushing the idea even after it failed, shows a political agenda.

The only Bible prophecy I see they may be hanging their political movement against a pope on, is the Daniel 2 Scripture about the piece of 'iron'.

The Daniel 2 piece of the beast statue, the "legs of iron", represented the old pagan Roman empire. That pagan empire basically ended with the conquering of Rome, and eventually by Constantine declaring Christianity the national religion.

The final Daniel 2 beast piece is the feet of ten toes of part clay mixed with iron. Because 'iron' is mentioned again for this final piece of the beast statue, some believe it means a revival of the old 'pagan' Roman empire. Thus those deceived still trying to follow the old reformer's ideas that the pope is the Antichrist. They won't admit that the pope claims to be a Christian and recognizes Jesus as The Christ. They instead choose to believe the pope and the RCC represent pagandom.

 

[Davy]

I'm familiar with the "priesthood of the saints",but if all saints are priests do we take turns receiving the tithes of other priests? Do we sit in confessional hearing each other's sins? Do we place ourselves in the seat of God or make ourselves intercessors for other saints?
Hogwash.

We are priests only by virtue of Christ and in receiving His Spirit have power to intercede for those "outside" the church, though these may be sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, coworkers on our vocations, our doctors and dentists, our political leaders, or anyone who doesn't know Christ.

Might want to study Ezekiel 44 about the "Zadok" (The Just). Only they will be allowed to approach Jesus in that world to come, which reveals His faithful Church of both elect Israelites and Gentiles as one body.

Only... those of Christ's 'faithful' Church that do not fall away will be made priests and kings in His future Kingdom here on earth.

One of the duties Lord Jesus showed His elect faithful Church of Philadelphia is how He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come worship at their feet (Revelation 3:9). One of the priest's main duties is to teach God's Word to the people.

The "many mansions" of John 14 are those priest's chambers mentioned in the Ezekiel 40 thru 47 chapters of Christ's future Millennial reign on earth.

 

[Earburner]

The Jewish people are still waiting for the Messiah to come (since they disregard Jesus as the messiah)....so according to prophesy there has to be a temple for him to enter and sit upon the throne.
Believers know better but still prophesy MUST be fulfilled even when done in ignorance and unbelief.

Israel lived under God's "If/then" prophecies.
IF they were obedient in faith, THEN God would grant to them, that which God said that He would do for them.
However, IF they were disobedient with no faith, THEN God would not fulfill that which He said He would do for them.

As for the prophecies about Jesus, they are of the Everlasting Gospel, aka "the Promise", that God would fulfill, with Israel or with out it.
Matthew 21[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Luke 19[41] And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
[42] Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
> As went the KoG away from them, so also did His "If/then" prophecies, of His good will towards them.

> So now, being judged as disobedient, and being without faith, God divorced them as their Husband, and they are now equally "desolate' with the Gentiles.
Luke 13[35] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see [perceive] me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
> We who are Born Again, are they that come to the Jews in the name of the Lord, as ambassadors in His stead.
2 Cor. 5[20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Israel lived under God's "If/then" prophecies.
IF they were obedient in faith, THEN God would grant to them, that which God said that He would do for them.
However, IF they were disobedient with no faith, THEN God would not fulfill that which He said He would do for them.

As for the prophecies about Jesus, they are of the Everlasting Gospel, aka "the Promise", that God would fulfill, with Israel or with out it.
Matthew 21[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Luke 19[41] And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
[42] Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
> As went the KoG away from them, so also did His "If/then" prophecies, of His good will towards them.

> So now, being judged as disobedient, and being without faith, God divorced them as their Husband, and they are now equally "desolate' with the Gentiles.
Luke 13[35] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see [perceive] me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
> We who are Born Again, are they that come to the Jews in the name of the Lord, as ambassadors in His stead.
2 Cor. 5[20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Daniel’s interpretation of Nebechudnezzar's dream was about a future event without an if/then condition.
The prophesy of a Messiah was not an if/then condition.
All instruction given us as to how or what to do in our daily lives has an if/then condition.

 

[Earburner]

Daniel’s interpretation of Nebechudnezzar's dream was about a future event without an if/then condition.
The prophesy of a Messiah was not an if/then condition.
All instruction given us as to how or what to do in our daily lives has an if/then condition.

Yes, in regards to Jesus, I did show that here:
"As for the prophecies about Jesus, they are of the Everlasting Gospel, aka "the Promise", that God would fulfill, with Israel or with out it."

As for Neb's vision, I don't know what you are speaking to. Do you have a scripture verse?

You were focused on the prophecies concerning the Jews and Israel as a nation. So was I.
My conclusion is, corporately they are now equal to a Gentile nation. However, each Individually, if they do not accept Jesus as their Savior before death or before He returns, they are just as lost as any unbelieving Gentile.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yes, in regards to Jesus, I did show that here:
"As for the prophecies about Jesus, they are of the Everlasting Gospel, aka "the Promise", that God would fulfill, with Israel or with out it."

As for Neb's vision, I don't know what you are speaking to. Do you have a scripture verse?

You were focused on the prophecies concerning the Jews and Israel as a nation. So was I.
My conclusion is, corporately they are now equal to a Gentile nation. However, each Individually, if they do not accept Jesus as their Savior before death or before He returns, they are just as lost as any unbelieving Gentile.

But the whole purpose of God choosing the Israel people as "His chosen" people is because they are the blood line...geneology...ancestry...that Jesus would come from.
So the focus if Israel in the OT was to show the progression of events that brought us to the point of Jesus birth.

 

[Earburner]

Yes, and we can see that progression, but not from the view that is currently popular among many of the visible churches of today, that hold to the Premillennial view.
I am of the Amillennial view, therefore how I see it, will not line up with your thinking, if you are not.

Not all of Israel is Israel. KJV Romans 6:1-8
[8]They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

In Malachi 3:16, God reveals that He had retained in His memory every OT Israelite who died in faith believing of His Promise to come, which is Jesus the Messiah, the KoG Himself, who came to them in the flesh.

Though many of the Patriarchs, prophets, martyrs and others of Israel were moved and inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, none of them died with the Holy Spirit within them permanently.
That "Promise" could not take place for them, until the shedding of Christ's blood on the cross, for the forgiveness and the removal of sins. Hence the reasoning for what God calls the "book of remembrance".

Those of Israel, who had died in faith, is shown as being those who are "under the altar" in Revelation 6:9-11. Though they were dead, God Gifted them also with the permanency of His Holy Spirit (symbolized as white robes), on the Day of Pentecost. These are they who Paul calls "the Israel of God", of which we Gentiles and a remnant of Israel out of each generation, who are Born Again of the Holy Spirit, are grafted into. Altogether, we are "Heavenly Jerusalem".
Ever since Pentecost, it is that "Jerusalem which is above", that is now being "safely inhabited". Zechariah 14:11.
.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Israel lived under God's "If/then" prophecies.
IF they were obedient in faith, THEN God would grant to them, that which God said that He would do for them.
However, IF they were disobedient with no faith, THEN God would not fulfill that which He said He would do for them.

As for the prophecies about Jesus, they are of the Everlasting Gospel, aka "the Promise", that God would fulfill, with Israel or with out it.
Matthew 21[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Luke 19[41] And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
[42] Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
> As went the KoG away from them, so also did His "If/then" prophecies, of His good will towards them.

> So now, being judged as disobedient, and being without faith, God divorced them as their Husband, and they are now equally "desolate' with the Gentiles.
Luke 13[35] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see [perceive] me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
> We who are Born Again, are they that come to the Jews in the name of the Lord, as ambassadors in His stead.
2 Cor. 5[20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

The New Covenant was actually promised to the Jews as an unconditional Covenant and spoken of as such in both the books of Ezekiel and Jeremiah.

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Jeremiah 31:31-34
This wasn't generally taught by reformation theologians because it contradicts their replacement theology. The covenant is not made with Israel alone, but with Judah as well.

16 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Although I have cast them far off among the Gentiles, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet I shall be a little sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone.” ’ 17 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.” ’ 18 And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there. 19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God. 21 But as for those whose hearts follow the desire for their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their deeds on their own heads,” says the Lord God. Ezekiel 11:16-21
The reformers avoided this passage as well in that it makes little sense to say the gentiles were scattered among the gentiles, but refers to the Diaspora of Israel.

 

[Earburner]

The New Covenant was actually promised to the Jews as an unconditional Covenant and spoken of as such in both the books of Ezekiel and Jeremiah.

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Jeremiah 31:31-34
This wasn't generally taught by reformation theologians because it contradicts their replacement theology. The covenant is not made with Israel alone, but with Judah as well.

16 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Although I have cast them far off among the Gentiles, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet I shall be a little sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone.” ’ 17 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.” ’ 18 And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there. 19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God. 21 But as for those whose hearts follow the desire for their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their deeds on their own heads,” says the Lord God. Ezekiel 11:16-21
The reformers avoided this passage as well in that it makes little sense to say the gentiles were scattered among the gentiles, but refers to the Diaspora of Israel.

The nation of Israel is exceedingly sinful and is equal to all of the Gentile nations. Without repentance towards God through Jesus, while they still have breath, they are also equally lost as any Gentile. They must now "flee to the valley of the mountains", Who is Jesus.
Zechariah 14:5

 

[michaelvpardo]

The nation of Israel is exceedingly sinful and is equal to all of the Gentile nations. Without repentance towards God through Jesus, while they still have breath, they are also equally lost as any Gentile. They must now "flee to the valley of the mountains", Who is Jesus.
Zechariah 14:5

If you say so, but the promise given by God isn't nullified by poor teaching or lack of understanding, and Judah is one of three tribes referred to as Jews (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi.)

 

[Earburner]

If you say so, but the promise given by God isn't nullified by poor teaching or lack of understanding, and Judah is one of three tribes referred to as Jews (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi.)

"The Promise" of God is the Messiah who came unto them. Unfortunately, they themselves committed the "7th abomination found in
Proverbs 6:16-19.
Can you pick out which one is the 7th abomination, of which caused their desolation?
When the KoG of God was taken from them, and is now within God's Born Again Saints, as the KoG went away from them and to another, so also did God's promises leave them also.
Until they each repent towards God, through the shed Blood of Jesus Christ, they now stand in that spirit of antichrist, denying both the Father and the Son, who came to them in the flesh.

 

[michaelvpardo]

"The Promise" of God is the Messiah who came unto them. Unfortunately, they themselves committed the "7th abomination found in
Proverbs 6:16-19.
Can you pick out which one is the 7th abomination, of which caused their desolation?
When the KoG of God was taken from them, and is now within God's Born Again Saints, as the KoG went away from them and to another, so also did God's promises leave them also.
Until they each repent towards God, through the shed Blood of Jesus Christ, they now stand in that spirit of antichrist, denying both the Father and the Son, who came to them in the flesh.

Actually yes, they turned God's house into their house, a house of greed and hypocrisy, and rejected the owner of the house, as in the parable of the wicked vinedressers. This is what the self righteous consistently do to God's church.

 

[Earburner]

Actually yes, they turned God's house into their house, a house of greed and hypocrisy, and rejected the owner of the house, as in the parable of the wicked vinedressers. This is what the self righteous consistently do to God's church.

YES, aka the tares.

As to the 7th abomination, of Proverbs 6:16-19, which is the shedding of innocent blood, now you can know who it really was that committed "the abomination that maketh desolate [void of God]".
The question is, can you face up to it, and accept it, over and above the denominational indoctrination, that has been going on for years about it.

Jesus knew exactly who it was, that was going to "shed innocent blood", when He told THEM the words of Daniel the prophet.
When you shall see "the abomination that maketh desolate", then let them who are in Judaea flee to the mountains. Mat. 24:15.
Yes, we do know, because of THAT abomination, the KoG was taken from them, thus making them to be void of God. The KoG was then given to that "holy nation" of God's Born Again Saints.
1 Peter 2:9

I'm familiar with the "priesthood of the saints",but if all saints are priests do we take turns receiving the tithes of other priests? Do we sit in confessional hearing each other's sins? Do we place ourselves in the seat of God or make ourselves intercessors for other saints?
Hogwash.

We are priests only by virtue of Christ and in receiving His Spirit have power to intercede for those "outside" the church, though these may be sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, coworkers on our vocations, our doctors and dentists, our political leaders, or anyone who doesn't know Christ.

I agree! We are made, by His Holy Spirit, ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
In essence, all we who are Born Again, are His ambassadors coming out from His "holy nation", carrying forth His Gospel Message to the subjects of the earthly nations.
2 Corinthians 5:20

 

[Earburner]

The Jewish people are still waiting for the Messiah to come (since they disregard Jesus as the messiah)....so according to prophesy there has to be a temple for him to enter and sit upon the throne.
Believers know better but still prophesy MUST be fulfilled even when done in ignorance and unbelief.

When the KoG was taken from them, so also went away the "If/Then" prophecies concerning THEM.
There ONLY recourse, is for each of them to come to God through Jesus. If they don't, then they are just as lost as any Gentile who refuses Him. Romans 8:9
Luke 19[41] And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
[42] Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day [of visitation], the things which belong unto thy peace!
but now they are hid from thine eyes.

 

[Heart2Soul]

When the KoG was taken from them, so also went away the "If/Then" prophecies concerning THEM.
There ONLY recourse, is for each of them to come to God through Jesus. If they don't, then they are just as lost as any Gentile who refuses Him. Romans 8:9
Luke 19[41] And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
[42] Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day [of visitation], the things which belong unto thy peace!
but now they are hid from thine eyes.

You know that and I know that but there are still those in Israel who haven't even read a new Testament bible.