The Divinity in Jesus, and not of Jesus himself

[APAK]

This is a scripture study and commentary of the following.

Philippians, Chapter 2: Verse 1-11:

Key focus: The divinity in Jesus and not of Jesus himself. The obedience and love of his Son, the willing servant that pleased his Father.

Jesus wants all believers to have the same type of humble mind as himself; giving their will over to the Father through him, Jesus’ own spirit dwelling inside them. Even though Jesus projected his Father’s voice (Word) and images through his own spirit or mind into words and actions, he never once ever considered himself equal with his Father. He knew the source of everything he did was because of his Father’s divine nature and will, working inside him. Another popular translation of Verse 6, part b of this scripture suggests that Jesus thought it alright to be considered equal or even suggests than Jesus shared in his Father’s glory. And that Jesus was the one demonstrating his will through his own voice and works of his own hands. Preference is given however, to the former version, as Jesus only thought of glorifying his Father; of a true servant's humble mind.

Nevertheless, Jesus never had a mind of his own because he cleared or put his aside and permitted his Father’s mind to become and take possession of it, beginning at an early age. Jesus learned to have faith in his Father’s will and ways. The Father’s mind and spirit became the Son’s mind and spirit operating within him and especially accented and witnessed from and after Jesus’ baptism.

So, in this way Jesus acquired the image or appeared as the mental form of his Father as he performed his Father’s mission to the cross. He outwardly appeared as if he was his Father, although of course not actually being God, his Father, which would be an impossible feat. Therefore, Jesus never had the same divine nature of his Father at all, ever, or even some impossible version of his own concoction and delusion. He had his Father’s divine nature operating within him, within his mind and spirit. There is a big difference between thinking Jesus has his own natural divine nature and having the only divine nature in existence of the Father operating within you, from birth.

Jesus thus became a natural voluntary servant and humble man. He was begotten with his Father's presence within him and became a possessed (a possession) man and son of his Father as the second and last Adam of his Father’s creation.

God was indeed, with his Son from birth, and all those that believe in his Son at their own rebirth.

Jesus the human being as the son of men was obedient to his Father’s will until his death. He died willingly because he was an obedient Son that loved him Father and us so dearly. And because of his Son’s demonstration of love on the cross, he gave him glory, above all creation. All shall call Jesus, Lord, as his Father desires this as his glory and title.

Jesus was and is never the divine one, his Father was and is today, and forever.


Please feel free to comment and add your views.

Blessings,

APAK

 

[101G]

. Another popular translation of Verse 6, part b of this scripture suggests that Jesus thought it alright to be considered equal or even suggests than Jesus shared in his Father’s glory. And that Jesus was the one demonstrating his will through his own voice and works of his own hands. Preference is given however, to the former version, as Jesus only thought of glorifying his Father; of a true servant's humble mind.

you said inconjunction, with the above quote, "Even though Jesus projected his Father’s voice (Word) and images through his own spirit or mind into words and actions, he never once ever considered himself equal with his Father".

ok, question, "What thype of "spirit" did Jesus have? was it a. the Godly Spirit, with the capitial "S" in Spirit. or b. an angelic "spirit", or c. a human "Spirit".

which one, will be looking for your answer.

PICJAG.

 

[APAK]

@101G why c. a human spirit.
Now in anticipation of another query, Jesus, although having a genuine human spirit as I already eluded to, was in his Father (his Father's mind and spirit). His Father was in his 'face' 24/7 and visa versa. As 'one' mind and spirit, one team. This is what the Father wants us to do, be in Christ 24/7, as he is in us.

Thanks for the question 101G

Blessings,

APAK

 

[101G]

@101G why c. a human spirit.
Now in anticipation of another query, Jesus, although having a genuine human spirit as I already eluded to, was in his Father (his Father's mind and spirit). His Father was in his 'face' 24/7 and visa versa. As 'one' mind and spirit, one team. This is what the Father wants us to do, be in Christ 24/7, as he is in us.

Thanks for the question 101G

Blessings,

APAK

What was he before obtaining the human spirit. and the reason why we ask this is this, Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

ok, if he was "MADE" in the likeness of men what was Jesus "spirit" before he was made in the Likeness of men. AGAIN, was it,
a. the Godly Spirit, with the capitial "S" in Spirit. or b. an angelic "spirit", or c. a human "Spirit".

PICJAG.

 

[APAK]

What was he before obtaining the human spirit. and the reason why we ask this is this, Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

ok, if he was "MADE" in the likeness of men what was Jesus "spirit" before he was made in the Likeness of men. AGAIN, was it,
a. the Godly Spirit, with the capitial "S" in Spirit. or b. an angelic "spirit", or c. a human "Spirit".

PICJAG.

Now if you read my OP, he 'poured himself out' as in one translation, and as you pointed out in your version," make himself of no reputation" or even in another version 'emptied himself.' The answer to this expression was clearly answered in my OP when I said he cleared his mind and will completely to become a servant to his Father. He gave his all, heart, mind and soul to his Father and thus became a humble and obedient servant to him to his death. In verse 17, outside the contents of the OP, Paul again uses this/these same expression(s) as meaning the very same thing here. He considered 'pouring himself out' or 'becoming of no reputation' as a 'drink' (to become a sacrifice or offering) to those that showed (would show) service and faith etc.


(Php 2:17) Yes, and if I am poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all.


Unfortunately, most translations never kept the same expression in verse 17 as was used in verse 7...most used the word 'sacrifice' or 'offering'...does not change the meaning though.


And then because of 'pouring himself out,' giving his all to his Father as a self-offering, he became an obedient servant of his Father.


Now Paul said this in this place in his writings because he did not want the listener or reader to think that Jesus was not made as any human being and man. Although, as his Father was working on him on the 'inside,' no human could see that he was actually quite different.


And thus, it was important to say he was made just like any ordinary man. I am just like any man. I have been made in the likeness or form of any man, although each of us are different on the inside, inside in our spirit. And Jesus was especially different in that case. He had his Father's spirit within him.


Later of course, folks began to query whether he was just a typical man, on the inside, when he began preaching and performing miracles after his baptism.


There was no 'before' for Jesus. He was born and existed for the first time in Bethlehem, as 100% human being in flesh and spirit. He was however made by his Father, and his Spirit stayed resident within him (with one momentary exception - at his death), even today. Jesus was the first natural born human believer, in his and our Father. Very unique indeed....


Bless you,


APAK

 

[101G]

I said he cleared his mind and will completely to become a servant to his Father. He gave his all, heart, mind and soul to his Father and thus became a humble and obedient servant to him to his death.

First thanks for the reply, second, ERROR, he did not clear his mid, and two this was in reference to his nature, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". here "Form" means NATURE, God is a Spirit. now, if he just cleared his mind, what mind did he have?, Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross". you said, "He gave his all, heart, mind and soul to his Father and thus became a "humble" and obedient servant to him to his death".

so my question still stand, "what was he before he HUMBLED himself as a man?". see verse 6, "being in the Form of God. what "Form" was that, before he "HUMBLED" himself?.

I'll be looking for your answer.

PICJAG.

 

[APAK]

First thanks for the reply, second, ERROR, he did not clear his mid, and two this was in reference to his nature, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". here "Form" means NATURE, God is a Spirit. now, if he just cleared his mind, what mind did he have?, Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross". you said, "He gave his all, heart, mind and soul to his Father and thus became a "humble" and obedient servant to him to his death".

so my question still stand, "what was he before he HUMBLED himself as a man?". see verse 6, "being in the Form of God. what "Form" was that, before he "HUMBLED" himself?.

I'll be looking for your answer.

PICJAG.

VR I cannot answer your question because I believe you have based it on an incorrect reading and setting of this scripture. Jesus existed in the mind of God before he was actually born and became a man who humbled himself...

The 'form' you are referring to in verse 6 is Jesus having the same mental state or attitude as his Father or God because his Father was in his mind and heart (spirit), at his birth because he did not exist before that time. This is the form he had when he was born. Jesus' form => Father's own spirit-mind. Jesus own spirit-mind became for all practical purposes (in the most part), null and void, and it was replaced and became his Father's spirit, active within him all the way to the cross.

Now if you are going to you the word 'nature' for 'form,' which is a leap, and I definitely would not, because first it does not mean that at all in the original Greek word derivative, then you must still be consistent and very careful in using it, without taking liberties in any delusional, or far-flung deductions.

So using your translation then, Jesus was in the nature of his Father. Which would be correct and in-line with my understanding although many will jump to conclusions and say this nature was Jesus' and the same nature as his Father...therefore he is divine and therefore God..then comes racing out is the false support of .John 1:1, John 1:14 and on and on and on...which is ridiculous....it gets uncontrollable at this point..all in knots and confusion.

So if used carefully it still means that Jesus had the Father's nature in him, although it is never Jesus.' Jesus did not have this nature of himself. As my Thread says...The divinity(nature) in Jesus, and not of himself. It was the Father's nature and never Jesus'. I do sound redundant because you have not listened carefully to my words.

If God his Father be in Jesus, of course his nature would be there too, and God's nature is definitely divine. Being in someone or something means just that..it does not mean that the thing or person receiving the thing or person is the same as the thing or person sending it into the one receiving it...get my drift...that make's no sense at all. And yet look at what folks have made or forced themselves to believe in today?

Blessings,

APAK

 

[APAK]

@101G ..one more thing I forgot to mention. You need start reading scripture before verse 6 to know that the context here is about believers being and having the mind of Christ as he did with his Father. Paul was not speaking to the nature of God or even Jesus. Then Paul jumps into verse 6.

I have to say yourself and most others just want to pull out verses that suit themselves for their own purpose, rather than trying to know what the text really says...I do get a bit frustrated when I get accused that I have it all wrong when I know these same folks have not read all the correct or applicable material...yes, ignorance comes to mind.

APAK

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Apak

Your posts are non-Christian and blasphemous denying Jesus eternally existing as God.

 

[101G]

first thanks for the reply, second, another ERROR, you said,

I cannot answer your question because I believe you have based it on an incorrect reading and setting of this scripture. Jesus existed in the mind of God before he was actually born and became a man who humbled himself...

Let's take this one step at a time.
#1. "Jesus existed in the mind of God before he was actually born and became a man". ERROR Jesus is God, supportive scripture, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God".
you really don't understand John 1:1 do you?. this is in releation to Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". STOP, not equal "TO", but "WITH", meaning he's God himself. because of this, Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.". so that eliminates any other PERSON.

and for the notion that JESUS was in the Mind of God, Jesus is the wisdom, and "POWER" of God himself.

see apak, Jesus was before Philippians 2:6, so that notion he was his mind is in ERROR. you said, "The 'form' you are referring to in verse 6 is Jesus having the same mental state or attitude as his Father or God because his Father was in his mind and heart (spirit), at his birth because he did not exist before that time".
another ERROR, Jesus Existed before the world was, for he is God. no, apak, it was his flesh that did not exist before he came into this world that he created. Jesus is before his flesh. understand, the term "form" in Phil 2:6 is "NATURE", and God is "a" Spirit, "ONE" that why he diversified himself, and then G2758 κενόω kenoo his "OWNSELF" in that flesh....

this is just the first part of your reply, and haven't got to the good stuff yet, but I'll give you a chance to repsonse to what we have posted.

PICJAG.

 

[APAK]

@101G and @Anthony D'Arienzo I take it you both feel threatened and a bit vulnerable at this time judging by your panicked responses? It shall soon subside believe me, as your pride shall continue to reveal the truth you want to hear.

Blessings,

APAK

 

[101G]

@101G and @Anthony D'Arienzo I take it you both feel threatened and a bit vulnerable at this time judging by your panicked responses? It shall soon subside believe me, as your pride shall continue to reveal the truth you want to hear.

Blessings,

APAK

you didn't address my post.

apak, is Jesus God YES or NO? your answer please.
PICJAG

 

[Enoch111]

Therefore, Jesus never had the same divine nature of his Father at all, ever, or even some impossible version of his own concoction and delusion.

You are simply and with great futility contradicting the Bible:

HEBREWS 1
8 But unto the Son [Jesus] he saith, Thy throne, O God [Theos], is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God [Theos = Jesus], even thy God [the Father], hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord [Lord = God = Jesus], in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

Those who blatantly contradict the Word of God are simply asking for trouble.

 

[101G]

as in the apostle days so now,

@101G and @Anthony D'Arienzo I take it you both feel threatened and a bit vulnerable at this time judging by your panicked responses? It shall soon subside believe me, as your pride shall continue to reveal the truth you want to hear.

Blessings,

APAK

GINOLJC, to all.
Maybe it's you who is panicked when confronted by the TRUTH. for if not, you would had responded to the TRUTH by the scriptures. but we have seen this type of behavior before. dodge the question, and speak about how someone else is not knowing, or their pride is high... LOL. when it's you all along, now confronted with the truth.

excuses will never answer any question, only the word of God. and twisting scriptures want help either ...

Now once more, in order to get to this state of humility, a modest or low view of one's own importance. he, Jesus GOD, had to G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') himself, when he took on the flesh he came in. supportive scripture, Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man".

do one see the TRUTH.... "MADE" LOWER that the angels. meaning he was HIGHER than the angels before he took on flesh. and there are only three entities,
1. God
2. angels
3. man

well if he was made lower that the angels, then there is only one slot above the angels .... God. so your assessment that Jesus is not God is a ... the Word that begans with the letter "L" and rhymes with "Die".

now, knowing this, the Lord Jesus, just as Philippians 2:6 states "being in the form of God". bingo, yes, he's God. being is existence, no beginning, no ending. without father and without mother.

see apak, we support what we say by the scriptures. so that you can check out what we say. now if you believe that we're in error, put it on the table and let's examine your scriptures to say other wise. that's fair enough. if one is sure of their doctrine, put it on the table and let it be examine. if it's ture it will stand, else it will be burnt up by the word of God.


PICJAG.

 

[APAK]

you didn't address my post.

apak, is Jesus God YES or NO? your answer please.
PICJAG

I guess you don't do real Bible Study much where at least people share their views on the TOPIC addressed without deliberately trying to derail the entire discussion. The Topic addresses the mind of Christ and the inference to his non-divinity, both. Throwing out a volume of disjointed cryptic and colorful (some in Red with different sized fonts) words that are meant to some how overpower me does not help either. I know you have your pet 'golden calf,' that Jesus is the HS.

Well for the last time I will answer your question, Jesus is not God or never was God...is this the third or fourth time now you have asked me this same question? Log it down this time.

Since you have taken liberty to ask me a couple of queries off topic, as a multiple choice answer selection, let me ask you one.

Yes, this is not in-line with the Thread...

Why was Jesus sinless when he was a mortal man on earth since his conception or birth?

a. He was God Almighty and therefore divine and could never sin?
b. His God, the Father of all, created him and remained resident within him, in his spirit-mind, permanently and naturally connected from his birth?
c. His Father overlooked and voided out some small sins he committed because the Father is the judge of sin?

Bless you,

APAK

 

[APAK]

You are simply and with great futility contradicting the Bible:

HEBREWS 1
8 But unto the Son [Jesus] he saith, Thy throne, O God [Theos], is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God [Theos = Jesus], even thy God [the Father], hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord [Lord = God = Jesus], in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

Those who blatantly contradict the Word of God are simply asking for trouble.

Enoch, I have read this type of reply many times now, not to be arrogant or prideful in my response here either.

I shall just tell you as I’ have said/written to others with this area of scripture you have presented; you need to carefully know the context and if the translation is reliable when it comes to God’s truth. Also, clear your mind and pray that the Spirit will guide you into understanding.

Let me again examine Hebrews 1:8-12:

First in verse 8: the error in this scripture translation is that god is deliberately written with a leading capitalized word “G.” This was done deliberately to support the Trinity model. Jesus was one of many folks in the OT that were considered gods or Lords. Even Jesus called himself a god not GOD when he spoke to the Pharisees. I’m sure you can find this scripture.

Jesus was promised the scepter from the house of David as a literal place of rulership (throne) in heaven as per the book of Revelation and in this verse. Jesus says to all overcomers they can sit in his throne (use his rulership) as he sits now in his Father’s throne (uses his rulership). There’s nothing here to say Jesus is God Almighty. Can you find it? I cannot I’m afraid.

Verse 9: You have deliberately altered the reading and thus misinterpreted the verse completely. It says because Jesus loves righteousness and hates evil, God, your (his) Father anointed Jesus (at his baptism with his fullness of his Spirit on/ within him). If you thought Jesus was in his Father from birth, them this action made Jesus on steroids with his Father’s ‘full’ spirit at his baptism. And he needed it to complete his mission to the cross. It says he was ‘anointed’ above all his mates…important point here.

Now anyone reading verse 10 for understanding must see that in verses 8-9 Jesus was the MAIN subject. Now the God the Father becomes the MAIN topic in this verse and the next two (11-12). It's a logical flow for the mind to understand.


God Almighty the true LORD, created everything not Jesus. No sign of Jesus, the Son of God here.

Now the writer is saying that God Almighty remains the same from eternity past and to eternity future, not Jesus as all other creatures! Yes he is immortal today....


Let’s sum up: Jesus is introduced first because the writer wanted to convey to the Jew audience that Jesus possesses his own rulership as promised and anointed over all human beings for the purpose of the work on the cross; given by his God, the Father, and not himself, which would be silly.

Then the writer was reinforcing that God Jesus Father made all this happen for Jesus. He is the eternal one and not Jesus. God Almighty is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He is the creator of all, including Jesus our Lord and 'god.'

Bless you,

APAK

 

[101G]

I guess you don't do real Bible Study much where at least people share their views on the TOPIC addressed without deliberately trying to derail the entire discussion. The Topic addresses the mind of Christ and the inference to his non-divinity, both. Throwing out a volume of disjointed cryptic and colorful (some in Red with different sized fonts) words that are meant to some how overpower me does not help either. I know you have your pet 'golden calf,' that Jesus is the HS.

Well for the last time I will answer your question, Jesus is not God or never was God...is this the third or fourth time now you have asked me this same question? Log it down this time.

Since you have taken liberty to ask me a couple of queries off topic, as a multiple choice answer selection, let me ask you one.

Yes, this is not in-line with the Thread...

Why was Jesus sinless when he was a mortal man on earth since his conception or birth?

a. He was God Almighty and therefore divine and could never sin?
b. His God, the Father of all, created him and remained resident within him, in his spirit-mind, permanently and naturally connected from his birth?
c. His Father overlooked and voided out some small sins he committed because the Father is the judge of sin?

Bless you,

APAK

well let's answer you one by one.
#1. you said, "I guess you don't do real Bible Study much where at least people share their views on the TOPIC addressed without deliberately trying to derail the entire discussion".
sure I have "REAL" bible study ... lol. and no I did not derail the discussion. we just only derail a none TRUTH.

#2. you said, "The Topic addresses the mind of Christ and the inference to his non-divinity, both".
we did address the TRUE mind of Christ, which is God, the Holy Spirit MIND. I guess you missed that.

#3. you said, "Throwing out a volume of disjointed cryptic and colorful (some in Red with different sized fonts) words that are meant to some how overpower me does not help either. I know you have your pet 'golden calf,' that Jesus is the HS".
well you got one thing right, .. not on your own of course. Yes Jesus is the Holy Spirit, and it's God pet pee.... . and those bold and big letter are effective, hey... LOL.

#4. you said, "Well for the last time I will answer your question, Jesus is not God or never was God...is this the third or fourth time now you have asked me this same question? Log it down this time".
been had it just want you to say it as many as time possible, so we can get the Maxum amount of coal upon your head ...
and two, that's where you fail, flat on your face.

#5. you said, "Why was Jesus sinless when he was a mortal man on earth since his conception or birth?". let us get out our BIG jeopardy buzzer for this one. Buzzzz... #1. Jesus was sinless, Hebrews 4:15. #2. Buzzzz .. #2. Jesus was NOT a MORTAL MAN... LOL, he was made in"LIKENESS" of man, Philippians 2:7. Buzzzz....#3. Jesus was never BORN, the Flesh he came in was BORN. man oh man you don't do bible study do you?.

see how we answer you by scripture.

 

[101G]

@101G ..one more thing I forgot to mention. You need start reading scripture before verse 6 to know that the context here is about believers being and having the mind of Christ as he did with his Father. Paul was not speaking to the nature of God or even Jesus. Then Paul jumps into verse 6.

I have to say yourself and most others just want to pull out verses that suit themselves for their own purpose, rather than trying to know what the text really says...I do get a bit frustrated when I get accused that I have it all wrong when I know these same folks have not read all the correct or applicable material...yes, ignorance comes to mind.

APAK

this is what you need to do. because verses 1-5 is setting us up to understand that God almighty diversified himself so that he could G2758 κενόω kenoo himself in flesh so that he could humble himself in the likeness as a man. hence the reason why he was "MADE LOWER, so that he could as the diversity of himself obtain a humble life to die for us.

so all that mumbo jumbo about him, "clearing his mind and will completely to become a servant to his Father" that's nothing but vain philosophy. Colossians 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

so you will never deceive us. .... ... lol.

PICJAG.

 

[APAK]

@101G well I guess you are done with this Thread based on your last bizarre and painful response. I do not take the bait from a false teacher. I suggest then you might need to move on to other Threads to find new recruits for your golden calf. Or should I say you and others (as you address yourself as 'we') that came with you.

Peace, love and joy is my desire with a humble heart as of Christ.

I regret to say that I cannot function or I am not willing to respond to your continued rashness hence forth by you/we until your 'Christian' attitude drastically changes, to one of edification with minimal pride and arrogance. You do know exactly my point here!

Blessings,

APAK

 

[101G]

@101G well I guess you are done with this Thread based on your last bizarre and painful response. I do not take the bait from a false teacher. I suggest then you might need to move on to other Threads to find new recruits for your golden calf. Or should I say you and others (as you address yourself as 'we') that came with you.

Peace, love and joy is my desire with a humble heart as of Christ.

I regret to say that I cannot function or I am not willing to respond to your continued rashness hence forth by you/we until your 'Christian' attitude drastically changes, to one of edification with minimal pride and arrogance. You do know exactly my point here!

Blessings,

APAK

(smile), so I'm a false teacher now. as the apostle Paul said, "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? ".

don't worry we will move on, because we don't like philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men.

Good day

PICJAG.