The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

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CovenantPromise

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Then it should be EASY for you to prove my use of those verses wrong.
Perhaps we can take them verse by verse. I want top make this as EASY for you as possible . . .
OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT -
The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9
NT -
"Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)
This is an almost VERBATIM type and fulfillment.
Please explain HOW this has been "misinterpreted" . . .


OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT -
When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)
How has this comparison been misinterpreted. In both cases people were "leaping for joy" before the Ark/Mary.

OT -
The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom in the hill country if Judea for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God
goes to Elizabeth's house in the hill country if Judea for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)
Once again, the circumstances here are IDENTICAL.
How is this a Catholic "misinterpretation"?


OT -
The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT -
Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)
The circumstances are once again, uncanny, to say the least.

OT - The On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).
This type and fulfillment is FAR too precise top be a mere coincidence regarding the number of Priests/Disciples, the Holy Spirit coming down as FIRE, BOTH Arks, etc. Please explain how this is a "misinterpratation".

Here is ONE more that pretty much seals the deal on Mary's role as Ark of the New Covenant:
ALL
of the Books of the Bible were written as long, continuous letters. Chapter and Verse were not added by the Church until the Middle Ages.

In the Book of Revelation, we see the New Ark of the Covenant in Heaven being spoken of at the very end of Chapter 11, verse 19:
Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.

The very next verse is in Chapter 12 (Rev 12:1):
A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

Verse 2 says:
She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.

We know that this child is Jesus because in verse 4, we read:
She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.

There is simply NO getting around the fact that the Woman/Ark here in Revelation 12 is Mary.
Refute THAT, please . . .
MIC-DROP-475x300.png
 

reformed1689

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So, what you are saying is that you CAN'T refute ANY of the Scriptural points I made?
I'm saying your points are stupid. You have no basis in reality. The only special thing about Mary is that she was chosen to carry Christ. That's it. No sinlessness, no godlike standing, she most definitely is not to be worshipped, she has no merit to give us, I could go on and on about the idol you have turned a fellow sinner into.
 

CovenantPromise

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No, Christ was a descendant of Eve and therefore part of her seed. And there was enminty the moment this was spoken for their eyes were opened and mankind has been warring with Satan ever since. This is not rocket science and NO IT IS NOT talking about Mary.
What does Enmity mean concerning the Holy Spirit? if what you are saying is true then, there is a Holy people who are NOT with sin then and are exempt and then Paul is a liar, that we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God, right? Do you know what enmity means? And is it that partial or FULL ?
 

BreadOfLife

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I'm saying your points are stupid. You have no basis in reality. The only special thing about Mary is that she was chosen to carry Christ. That's it. No sinlessness, no godlike standing, she most definitely is not to be worshipped, she has no merit to give us, I could go on and on about the idol you have turned a fellow sinner into.
Your FALSE claims in RED aside - I'm not asking you to debate Mary's sinlessness.
I'm asking you to REFUTE the Scriptural comparisons I meticulously laid out for you.

You keep claiming that they have NO basis in reality and that they are "poop".
Show me WHY they have no basis in reality. Show me WHY they are "poop".
 

BreadOfLife

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Yet it is also one of the most accurate.
HOW, exactly?

By the way - ALL of your dodges are pure GOLD for everybody who is reading this exchange because they paint a picture of a very desperate man completely unable to support his position.
 

reformed1689

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HOW, exactly?

By the way - ALL of your dodges are pure GOLD for everybody who is reading this exchange because they paint a picture of a very desperate man completely unable to support his position.
I don't waste my time on nonsense. If you came up with something worthwhile to debate, something worth debating, I would actually do so. But so far you are grasping at straws.
 

CovenantPromise

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David did Eve conceive in sin YES OR NO? And who was her seed that crushed the head of the serpent? And if Paul said you are deceived like Eve , how is the prophecy of Genesis 3:15 about her and her seed (CHILD)?
2 Corinthians 11:1-3
Paul and the False Apostles
1I hope you will bear with a little of my foolishness, but you are already doing that. 2I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. For I promised you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 3I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ.…

This does not indicate an enmity between her and the serpent, between his seed(knowledge) and her seed (Christ). You are saying Christ comes from a corrupt seed when saying this:
David Taylor said:

"No, Christ was a descendant of Eve and therefore part of her seed. And there was enminty the moment this was spoken for their eyes were opened and mankind has been warring with Satan ever since. This is not rocket science and NO IT IS NOT talking about Mary."

How do you reconcile this with the scriptures?

As Christ is the second Adam His chosen mother is the second Eve.
 

CovenantPromise

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There is only ONE person who has ever been without sin. Christ.
Not according to you. Genesis 3:15 is about the Lady Elect Mother of Christ, PERIOD! Your interp makes no sense. The Woman in Genesis is the Woman of Isaiah and the Woman at the tree (Cross) and Rev.PERIOD!
 

BreadOfLife

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I don't waste my time on nonsense. If you came up with something worthwhile to debate, something worth debating, I would actually do so. But so far you are grasping at straws.
THANK YOU for admitting that cannot answer the question I put to you regarding Mary and the Ark of the Covenant.

Don't feel bad, though - I've NEVER run into a Protestant who was able to answer those questions.
Some tried and failed - but MOST do what YOU did and simply ran . . .
 
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CovenantPromise

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Only an idiot would make that assumption. You can't get that from the text.
Let's see: Eve listened to a lying fallen angel and said yes, Mother Miryam (Mary) listen to a heavenly angel and said yes. The chosen mother of Christ believed all that was told her and said "be it done according to your word to me". And Eve though told the Word- (COMMAND OF GOD), did the opposite. She, is according to you the prophesied Woman of Genesis 3:15 and I'm the idiot?
 

BreadOfLife

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Not according to you. Genesis 3:15 is about the Lady Elect Mother of Christ, PERIOD! Your interp makes no sense. The Woman in Genesis is the Woman of Isaiah and the Woman at the tree (Cross) and Rev.PERIOD!
Not only is the "Woman" from the prophecy on Genesis 3:15 Mary - In John's Gospel, Jesus refers to Mary exclusively as "Woman".

A lot of anti-Catholics point to this as Jesus disrespecting His mother - which is absolutely ridiculous. Jesus kept the Commandments and HONORED His Father and Mother. He gave her the HIGHEST honor by calling her "Woman".
 
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reformed1689

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THANK YOU for admitting that cannot answer the question I put to you regarding Mary and the Ark of the Covenant.
I admitted no such thing.

And if you want a simple answer, if Mary was the Ark because she carried God, then all believer's are the Ark because the spirit of God dweels within us.

1 Cor 3:16-17; 6:19-20
 

reformed1689

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Let's see: Eve listened to a lying fallen angel and said yes, Mother Miryam (Mary) listen to a heavenly angel and said yes. The chosen mother of Christ believed all that was told her and said "be it done according to your word to me". And Eve though told the Word- (COMMAND OF GOD), did the opposite. She, is according to you the prophesied Woman of Genesis 3:15 and I'm the idiot?
The part about the woman is NOT prophecy.
 

BreadOfLife

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I admitted no such thing.

And if you want a simple answer, if Mary was the Ark because she carried God, then all believer's are the Ark because the spirit of God dweels within us.

1 Cor 3:16-17; 6:19-20
Sure - we are arks in a lesser sense.

She was the ONLY person in human history to be impregnated - BY God WITH God.
BIG difference.