The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

[Marymog]

It doesn't matter what he did before.

Ummmm.....Yes it does. Because if he had blasphemed the Holy Spirit he would not be saved......Just like Scripture says (Luke 12:10)

 

[Marymog]

There are none that are righteous.

Being a good person and being righteous are not the same thing kiddo sooooo I don't know what point you are TRYING to make.

We are none the less still told to pursue/strive for righteousness. If we do strive for righteousness all our other "things" (what we will eat, drink, wear) will be given to us as well. (Matthew 6:33, 1 Timothy 6:11)

 

[Marymog]

No, I am reading what Scripture actually says. Salvation has nothing to do with being a "good person." There is no such thing as a "good person" without Christ.

Ummmmm......You have to be a good person to be saved kiddo soooo being good person does have to do with being saved.

There are atheist who are good people.....they don't have Christ so you need to work on that theory

 

[Marymog]

I haven't dodged anything. We do good works BECAUSE of our faith. How many times do I have to say that?

Thank you. I specifically asked you if YOU did good works. Your answer(s) have been faith leads to good works and WE do good works because of our faith. You STILL have not told me that YOU do good works instead you keep speaking in broad terms answering for every Christian on earth of which you can't do....but it seems you are suggesting that you do do good works.

If you weren't a Christian you wouldn't do good works? Is that what you are saying??

Mary

 

[reformed1689]

There are atheist who are good people.....they don't have Christ so you need to work on that theory

Paul disagreed with you in Romans.

 

[reformed1689]

I know...I agree and never said that....Faith without works is dead....Just like Scripture says and I agree with.

Faith (belief), baptism, grace and works save us....Just like Scripture says, just like I have been saying.

Mary

Baptism does not save us. Scripture doesn't say that anywhere. Works do not save us, Scripture doesn't say that anywhere.

 

[Marymog]

Where is that in Scripture?
Where is any of this in Scripture?

You need Scripture to tell you that reading/researching Scripture and defending your belief is a good work in the eyes of God??? Are you being serious???

 

[reformed1689]

You need Scripture to tell you that reading/researching Scripture and defending your belief is a good work in the eyes of God??? Are you being serious???

That's not what I asked. Go back and read the post.

 

[Marymog]

Paul disagreed with you in Romans.

Ummmm....OK....would you care to share that passage?

 

[Marymog]

Baptism does not save us. Scripture doesn't say that anywhere. Works do not save us, Scripture doesn't say that anywhere.

I know it doesn't say that in YOUR bible but it does say it in The Bible.

 

[reformed1689]

I know it doesn't say that in YOUR bible but it does say it in The Bible.

Verse?

 

[reformed1689]

Ummmm....OK....would you care to share that passage?

Romans 3

 

[Marymog]

That's not what I asked. Go back and read the post.

We are discussing if work/good works are needed to obtain salvation.

I said: You have to work (read/research Scripture to see if it is true) to obtain faith. It just isn't given to you. Even after you have faith (belief) you still have to work on that belief (possibly by defending your belief) otherwise you could loose faith.

You retorted by asking: Where is that in Scripture?

So to me you are suggesting that YOU need Scriptural proof to tell you that reading/researching Scripture and defending your belief is a good work in the eyes of God.

If you don't need Scriptural proof then why are you asking the question: WHERE IS THAT IN SCRIPTURE?

 

[reformed1689]

So to me you are suggesting that YOU need Scriptural proof to tell you that reading/researching Scripture and defending your belief is a good work in the eyes of God.

Again, you are saying two different things in the statemnet

You said first, you have to read/reasearch Scripture see if it is true to obtain faith. I asked you WHERE is that found in Scripture? It isn't.

You then said you still have to work on that belief otherwise you could LOSE your faith. Where is that in Scripture? It isn't.

 

[Marymog]

Romans 3

Hmmmmm......I am unable to find a single passage in Romans 3 that says that an atheist can't be a good person.

Would you care to share that passage?

 

[reformed1689]

Hmmmmm......I am unable to find a single passage in Romans 3 that says that an atheist can't be a good person.

Would you care to share that passage?

There is none that are righteous.

 

[Marymog]

Verse?

We have already been down this road kiddo. You say 1 Peter 3:21 doesn't mean (in context) that baptism saves....even though is says "baptism now saves you". For 2,000 years Christians have preached and practiced OPPOSITE of what you believe. You have accepted the teachings of the Reformation.

In Acts 2, when St. Peter is preaching at Pentecost, his hearers ask what they must do to be saved? Peter would tell you the same thing David Taylor: “Repent and be baptized.”

Romans 6 says, “Don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” This idea that we are made one with Christ through baptism is reiterated by Paul in Colossians 2:12 when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead, and in Galatians 3:27 As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Paul likens baptism to “being clothed with Christ.”

If Peter and Paul are not good enough for ya' David then listen to Jesus: “No one can enter the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of water and the Spirit”.

Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

There is none that are righteous.

Yeah'.....ummmmm.....once again kiddo......being a good person and being righteous are NOT the same thing.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Marymog]

Again, you are saying two different things in the statemnet

You said first, you have to read/reasearch Scripture see if it is true to obtain faith. I asked you WHERE is that found in Scripture?

The Bereans read/researched Scripture to see if what Paul was telling them was true.....

I see what you are saying now. You ask a legitimate question.

I am taking this conversation using the preconceived thought that we are talking about the average person TODAY who can read. As we know for thousands of years a lot of people couldn't read and came to the faith none the less.

My answer is: Nowhere in Scripture does it say you have to research Scripture to see if it is true. By the faith (without research) of what we are being told or what we have read (or both) one could come to believe and have faith.

Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

 

[CovenantPromise]

First of all - I'm NOT calling Christ or anybody else a hypocrite - so calm down.

Secondly - you have NOT shown me where Scripture states that Scripture alone is to be our SOLE Authority.
The Scriptures themselves state that although the Scriptures are Authoritative - Christ's Church is our final earthly Authority - NOT the Scriptures (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Thirdly - 2 Tim. 3:16-17 does NOT preach Sola Scriptura - it states clearly that the Scriptures are PROFITABLE for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction - which they absolutely ARE. However - this does NOT mean that they ans they alone are our SOLE Authority - otherwise, you have to toss out ALL of the verses about Church Authority above as well as 2 Thess 2:15 which puts Sacred Tradition ON PAR with Scripture.

Prove Sola Scripture from Scripture alone - then we can move on. Otherwise - simply ADMIT what Protestant scholars have already admitted to in the past:
"Scripture Alone" cannot be shown from Scripture alone . . .

That's right one must enter by the fold any who would try to enter another way , is a thief . I have shown that concerning Constantine . And that goes for anyone else who would teach contrary to that which is held by the fold. Such as using Apocrypha to formulate doctrines. And I never said that the answers which are found in the scriptures alone are found without the Holy Spirit. I am simply saying in (clear ENGLISH) that those precepts given to us are the basis in which we can profit from in forming doctrines. You just do not like the truth . And the real truth is ,you have not proven ANYTHING I have said to be wrong. And no matter what, anything you know about Christ is according to Scripture alone. As for "oral" anything , comes from the apostles. And you do not hear from them personally. When they say "oral "they are speaking in present tense concerning- to their audience which they personally spoke to . In that case they spoke in oral Tradition in speaking of the scriptures and prophets which Christ fulfilled their words. Moving forward from their personal dialogue with their listeners who lived when they lived, they penned the word of God's- Law and ordinances (PRECEPTS) to be handed down, NOT TO EVER BE CONTRADICTED!

Anything which contradicts the scriptures , is not in harmony with the HOLY SPIRIT for both scripture and the spoken word by men- moving forward is anchored in what we first were taught in scripture . YOU JUST REJECT THAT TRUTH TO FEEL ALL SELF IMPORTANT!


You are the only one who has not and will not prove your point.
2 Timothy3:
All Scripture Is God-Breathed

10You , however, have observed my teaching, my conduct, my purpose, my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance, 11my persecutions, and the sufferings that came upon me in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra. What persecutions I endured! Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12Indeed, all who desire to live godly lives in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while evil men and imposters go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in the things you have learned and firmly believed, since you know from whom you have learned them.

15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction/profit, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.
COMPLETE_ FULLY EQUIPPED- like full of grace a permanent COMPLETE work for those who know it is the scriptures,( which are God breathed) ,that make us wise to the serpents out there.
You can call Timothy- friend and companion to the apostle Paul, a liar all you like. That does not ,make what he CLEARLY SAYS ....WRONG! It only proves you are a deceiver and imposter who goes from bad to worse. JUST AS HE SAID according to scripture alone!

You are indoctrinated by bunk and it is not that I HAVE NOT PROVEN MY POINT, you simply just do not accept the truth. Opinion is not enough , FACTS, EVIDENCE (empirical and rational ), is what is necessary which God provides in HIS written WORD ! His precepts in written word are the basis to profit/instruct a man in building DOCTRINE. You are one of two things, A DECEIVER or an IMPOSTER, That according to scripture alone which was penned by men in the Holy Spirit.

BOL said: "Thirdly - 2 Tim. 3:16-17 does NOT preach Sola Scriptura - it states clearly that the Scriptures are PROFITABLE for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction - which they absolutely ARE. However - this does NOT mean that they ans they alone are our SOLE Authority - otherwise, you have to toss out ALL of the verses about Church Authority above as well as 2 Thess 2:15 which puts Sacred Tradition ON PAR with Scripture."

That is right ! PROFITABLE and if out side of them- NOT PROFITABLE! And of course men will speak from the gifts given them by the Holy Spirit too, AND THOSE GIFTS NEVER CONTRADICT THE WRITTEN PRECEPTS OF THE SCRIPTURES FOR FAITH AND WORKS ARE ONE AS GOD IS ONE and that too is according to the teachings of the scriptures alone not any other book BEFORE IT!. That would be unprofitable . ARE YOU BLIND! That is right the scriptures set up WHAT CHURCH AUTHORITY IS ! Stop talking like a NIMROD. And listen to what you are even saying.


Continued......