The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

[reformed1689]

It simply means that David was born with the stain of Adam’s sin.

Yes, and the Catholic Church teaches Mary did not have this stain, despite that is found nowhere in Scripture.

 

[reformed1689]

This is the doctrine of Original sin – and has ZERO to do with personal sin.

Actually it has EVERYTHING to do with it.

 

[CovenantPromise]

If there was no original sin there would be no sin in the world. I think you are on to something David Taylor. You may yet become a PERFECTED PREACHER, AUTHOR and HUSBAND. Let's see what unfolds. I had hoped in others , to only be disappointed.

 

[aspen]

I wonder if Mary was what we would classify as cognitively delayed? Suddenly, it would make sense that Joseph agreed to be her guardian.

there are so many possibilities, which is why it seems more and more obvious that this issue is artificial

 

[CovenantPromise]

I wonder if Mary was what we would classify as cognitively delayed? Suddenly, it would make sense that Joseph agreed to be her guardian.

there are so many possibilities, which is why it seems more and more obvious that this issue is artificial

Not as artificial as your intelligence. Clearly the only cognitive delay is on you part .Hence why you follow Jorge.

 

[aspen]

Not as artificial as your intelligence. Clearly the only cognitive delay is on you part .Hence why you follow Jorge.

I see that people with cognitive delay are not acceptable with you

 

[CovenantPromise]

I see that people with cognitive delay are not acceptable with you

As Long as Christ is the world = in His Elect which includes me, I heal those with such infirmities .Your cognitive disability has nothing to do with an infirmity but rather a retardation in growth spiritually of choice, concerning the knowledge of God. That is the only cognitive issue I have a problem with. As for the infirmity , Christ can heal that. Loving corruption......that has no cure.

 

[reformed1689]

@BreadOfLife Simple question. If Mary was sinless, why did she need a savior? What did she need saved from?

 

[aspen]

As Long as Christ is the world = in His Elect which includes me, I heal those with such infirmities .Your cognitive disability has nothing to do with an infirmity but rather a retardation in growth spiritually of choice, concerning the knowledge of God. That is the only cognitive issue I have a problem with. As for the infirmity , Christ can heal that. Loving corruption......that has no cure.

I pray that God will increase our compassion

 

[CovenantPromise]

I pray that God will increase our compassion

That will happen when men accept truth over lies. I have no compassion for love of corruption. When men deny Christ, and teach false doctrines ,what compassion is to be given that? I own what I say, and your "I choose love " -devilish love doctrine does not fly. No greater compassion than for the PASSION OF CHRIST. If aligned to Jorge then you are aligned with apostasy . But you are not alone. Even "Evangelicals" who align with Trump are for the plurality of religions. I speak against them all, as all Christians are required to . It is why all the apostles ,(except for one), were martyred .It is called proselytizing and TRUE evangelizing. Not embracing,but coming toward people with the ONE TRUE FAITH. It is to come to people through evangelizing -PREACHING THE GOOD NEWS!

 

[aspen]

That will happen when men accept truth over lies. I have no compassion for love of corruption. When men deny Christ, and teach false doctrines ,what compassion is to be given that? I own what I say, and your "I choose love " -devilish love doctrine does not fly. No greater compassion than for the PASSION OF CHRIST. If aligned to Jorge then you are aligned with apostasy . But you are not alone. Even "Evangelicals" who align with Trump are for the plurality of religions. I speak against them all, as all Christians are required to . It is why all the apostles ,(except for one), were martyred .It is called proselytizing and TRUE evangelizing. Not embracing,but coming toward people with the ONE TRUE FAITH. It is to come to people through evangelizing -PREACHING THE GOOD NEWS!

Hmmm

well, your rejection of corruption is noble. Of course, spending time tilting at windmills; starting over every time you discover humans acting like humans seem to me to be a waste of precious time.

Reminds me of the Protestant Reformation....

Look at all the corruption in the Catholic Church! What an abomination! What can we do? I know! Let’s start a Church!!”

instead, we are called to love through all that worldliness! Burying your treasure is not the way to go. Our hearts need transformation, which can only be achieved through loving others in concert with Christ. Time is short.

 

[Philip James]

So what are you implying, your prayer to God IS...?
That:
1) He will cause your child to be interested to hear His Word? Choose to Follow Him? Elect to Confess belief IN Him?
OR
2) That He will instantly give your child Salvation, whether or not they Believe and they Confess?

Can you answer

Sure,

That this gift:

The New Heart and New spirit of a man IS a Gift.

be given to our children..

We ask, in Faith, that Holy Spirit and the supernatural Faith that comes with Him be given to our children.

God is good!

Peace!

 

[CovenantPromise]

Hmmm

well, your rejection of corruption is noble. Of course, spending time tilting at windmills; starting over every time you discover humans acting like humans seem to me to be a waste of precious time.

Reminds me of the Protestant Reformation....

Look at all the corruption in the Catholic Church! What an abomination! What can we do? I know! Let’s start a Church!!”

instead, we are called to love through all that worldliness! Burying your treasure is not the way to go. Our hearts need transformation, which can only be achieved through loving others in concert with Christ. Time is short.

Really? And how compassionate , responding to a conversation with sarcasm. Sounds like the harlot for sure. Typical hypocrisy . I am not trying to reform you. You cannot reform certain types. You do know reform as a word has been before you? Reform is something all men need. Re-form you know, like a new creation. A creature that has been and is made a new creation in Christ re-formed. Christ would be the original reformer. You seem to think that if men (you do not like ) use a word to imply their intention that some how that word is coined by them . Get over it. Words are as powerful as the men or women behind them. When used according to the Word, they always cut. That does not mean with a carnal sword either. Something that the Harlot uses to gain power over men throughout her history (CARNAL MEANS). If I use the word Orthodoxy that doe not mean I can not use it as if the Orthodox coined it. The same with Universal. It is what I put into those words that make them powerful. Otherwise they are just words without conviction. Just because the Protestant fathers acted like your harlot fathers does not taint the word re-form.
And just because you behave like a harlot does not taint Christianity. The harlot has a gold cup that she presents her brand of Christianity in but is filled with the filth of her abominations . You keep it. I'll pass. The scriptures will stand with or without you.

And that all men need!

 

[Taken]

And there is nothing in Scripture that tells us that Mary had other children.

It doesn't matter IF Mary and her husband Joseph had children together, or Joseph had previous children with another wife.

Mary and Joseph were Jews.
It was Jewish custom to consumate a marriage on the wedding day, with a sexual relationship between the husband and wife.

WE KNOW, that Joseph and Mary did not consumate their marriage ON THEIR WEDDING DAY.
WE KNOW, Joseph's instruction was to WAIT until AFTER the Birth of JESUS.

Your church corruptly teaches Mary was a PERPETUAL virgin.
Scripture teachs no such thing.

Scripture teaches, Joseph DID have a sexual relation with his wife Mary, AFTER the birth of JESUS.

Matt 1 (KJV)
[25] And knew her not TILL she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Matt 1 (NIV)
[25] But he did not consummate their marriage UNTIL she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.(A)

You attempt to ARGUE Mary having "other" children as IF it is significant. It is irrelevant.

The revelance IS, Mary and Joseph HAD a Sexual relation AFTER Jesus was born... which made Mary, no longer a Virgin!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[reformed1689]

Scripture teaches, Joseph DID have a sexual relation with his wife Mary, AFTER the birth of JESUS.

Matt 1 (KJV)
[25] And knew her not TILL she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Matt 1 (NIV)
[25] But he did not consummate their marriage UNTIL she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.(A)

You attempt to ARGUE Mary having "other" children as IF it is significant. It is irrelevant.

The revelance IS, Mary and Joseph HAD a Sexual relation AFTER Jesus was born... which made Mary, no longer a Virgin!

Glory to God,
Taken

BOOM! There goes this perpetual virgin nonsense out the door! Can't argue with that.

CC: @BreadOfLife

 

[BreadOfLife]

So you are going to argue from a negative something that is not even implied or even come close to being implied? In fact, we know Jesus had siblings and there is no reason to believe they were not from Mary and Joseph.

Wrong.

It's implied a LOT stronger than your moronic argument about the Ethiopian Eunuch having "repented" when there is ZERO evidence of this.

Why should I give an educated response to an ignorant argument? Besides, your educated response is above.

You should ALWAYS give an educated response (1 Pet. 3:15).

However - you won't because you can't.

Under grace does not mean sinless.

You're right.
However, Kecharitomene means that Mary was COMPLETED in grace - perfectly and enduringly.

THAT means sinless . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL.. No

Glory to God,
Taken

Then I was right the first time.
Case closed.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Scripture?

Glory to God,
Taken

Sure.

Stephen was COMPLETED (FULL) in grace at the point of his martyrdom (Acts 7:8).
He saw the heavens open op to welcome him and saw Christ sitting at the Father's right hand (Acts 7:56).

Rev. 21:27 states emphatically that NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven.
Ergo, Stephen entered Heaven PERFECT in grace (sinless).

YOUR turn . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, and the Catholic Church teaches Mary did not have this stain, despite that is found nowhere in Scripture.

Sure it is.
It is implied in Scripture (Luke 1:28) - especially when you take that verse into context with Mary's fulfilling the role of the Ark:

OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom in the hill country of Judea for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house in the hill country of Judea for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

OT - The On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 PRIESTS present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 DISCIPLES of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Actually it has EVERYTHING to do with it.

Wrong.

As I have educated you several times now - Rom. 3:10-18 is a direct reference to Psalm 14:
Rom. 3:10-12
As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”

This is talking about the WICKED - and it indicates Personal Sin - not Original Sin. They have "turned away" and "have become" worthless.
This is not about the state they were born in - but something THEY DID.

Psalm 14:5 states that God is in the company of the RIGHTEOUS.