Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
It is even better if it is read with understanding.
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The Elect?
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You continue to dither around in your confusion. God saves those who obey the Gospel. That is not self-righteousness but repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. "Lord, be merciful to me a sinner " is not self-righteousness. "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord" is not self-righteousness.
How long will you persist in your confused state? Why don't you study the Scriptures and then ask God to clear your mind from all the theological garbage that has settled there?
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
What an ignorant off topic post. The topic is election, not Calvin. Pull yourself together.
Dont be deceived, little children
“Who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.” Hebrews 5:7-9.
For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
and let Calvin stay in hell where he belongs imo
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
What people don't get is that Christ paid the debt for sin, and that God the Father accepted this payment.
So, if it was accepted, and it was for every single person ever, then all are converted and on their way to heaven. But this is biblically false.
The false message of foreseen faith (that "God looked down the corridors of time" nonsense "and saw all who would believe and decided to save them") is seen as erroneous. It turns salvation into a reward, not the free gift, and erases grace, making it meritorious.
How utterly absurd for Christ to have paid the debt of sin owed God, and then send those whose debt was paid, to hell for sin, sin that has been paid for. It's not only absurd, but it's also totally unScriptural.
Man's acceptation of this sacrifice and debt paid has no bearing -- it is the Father who has accepted it. It is not man's place to accept the sacrifice and debt paid, that is God's stead, not man's. We are called to repent and believe the Gospel.
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Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
No one obeys the gospel as you suggest showing your complete lack of understanding as well as repeating your wrong view of foreknowledge.
You will never come to truth with those defects.
And Romans 8 is one of best passages to explain the meaning of predestination:
1. For whom he did foreknow... predestination is based upon divine foreknowledge (God knowing the end from the beginning)
2....he also did predestinate... predestination is a Bible truth, but NOT for salvation
3....to be conformed to the image of his Son... predestination is for the perfection of the saints -- physically, morally, spiritually
4...that he might be the firstborn among many brethren... that the children of God would resemble the only begotten Son of God in eternity
5. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called... God calls His children through the Gospel, knowing who will believe
5... and whom he called, them he also justified... God justifies each one who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is justification by grace through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast
6... and whom he justified, them he also glorified... all the saints will be glorified at the Resurrection/Rapture. They will literally radiate light just as Christ (who is Light) radiates light.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Most who need to read this will not face it, plus most do not seem to read much
When I stop later I would like to explore it more, thanks for posting.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Yours is an inability to distinguish between prescriptive and descriptive texts, thus you come up with your false works "gospel."
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Your first error in point number 1 is the root of most of your errors.
You are confusing God's omniscience with His FOREKNOWLEDGE.....is of the sinners God elected to save before they were saved. They were saved by God before they had a desire to believe, God, giving them a new heart, repentance, and faith at their new birth.
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It's defined by 'whosoever believeth' in John 3.16. We don't know the end from the beginning and the eternal counsels of God; but He does!
Thanks for the answer! Here is the dilemma;
the premise; Jesus died for every sin of every man. I asked if unbelief was a sin, and he said that lack of faith is a sin.
~ If lack of faith is NOT a sin, then there is no penalty for it, and therefore everyone goes to heaven
~ If lack of faith IS a sin, then Christ's blood covered this sin as well, and therefore everyone goes to heaven.
Any way you slice it, if Christ died for all sins of all men, then everyone will be in heaven. This makes being a Christian completely useless.
Only those who are truly born again can definitely apply the promises to themselves by faith.
The offer of the Gospel to all - which I firmly believe in - is distinct from the effectual securing of the redemption of His people (Hebrews 1: 'He by Himself purged our sins').
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
This paragraph is key because many pastors have a fear of man rather than a fear of God.Most who need to read this will not face it, plus most do not seem to read much
When I stop later I would like to explore it more, thanks for posting.
It is a separating doctrine. The preaching of the sovereignty of God, as exercised by Him in foreordaining the eternal destiny of each of His creatures, serves as an effectual flail to divide the chaff from the wheat. "He that is of God heareth God's words" (John 8:47): yes, no matter how contrary they may be to his ideas. It is one of the marks of the regenerate that they set to their seal that God is true. Nor do they pick and choose, as will religious hypocrites: once they perceive a truth is clearly taught in the Word, even though it be utterly opposed to their own reason and inclinations, they humbly bow to it and implicitly receive it, and would do so though not another person in whole world believed it.
But it is far otherwise with the unregenerate. As the apostle declares, "They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error" (1 John 4:5, 6). We know of nothing so devisive between the sheep and the goats as a faithful exposition of this doctrine.
If a servant of God accepts some new charge, and he wishes to ascertain which of his people desire the pure milk of the Word, and which prefer the Devil's substitutes, let him deliver a series of sermons on this subject, and it will quickly be the means of "taking forth the precious from the vile" (Jer. 15:19). It was thus in the experience of the Divine Preacher: when Christ announced "no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father," we are told, "from that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him" (John 6:65, 66)!
True it is that by no means all who intellectually receive "Calvinism" as a philosophy or theology, give evidence (in their daily lives) of regeneration; yet equally true is it that those who continue to cavil against and steadfastly refuse any part of the truth, are not entitled to be regarded as Christians. It is a neglected doctrine.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Here is more clear teaching that anyone who can see believes.
"The election of grace" (Rom. 11:5), then, is not to be understood as the genitive of origin, but of object or character, as in "the Rose of Sharon," "the tree of life," "the children of disobedience." The election of the church, as of all His acts and works, is to be traced right back to the uncontrolled and uncontrollable will of God. Nowhere else in Scripture is the order of the divine counsels so definitely revealed as in Ephesians 1, and nowhere else is emphasis placed so strongly upon God's will. He predestinated unto the adoption of children "according to the good pleasure of his will" (v. 5). He has made known to us "the mystery of his will" (not "grace") and that "according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself" (v. 9). And then, as though that was not sufficiently explicit, the passage closes with "being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will, that we should be to the praise of his glory" (vv. 11, 12). Let us dwell for a moment longer upon that remarkable expression "who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will"(v. 11). Note well it is not "the counsel of his own heart," nor even "the counsel of his own mind," but WILL: not "the will of his own counsel," but "the counsel of his own will."
Herein God differs radically from us. Our wills are influenced by the thoughts of our minds and moved by the affections of our hearts; but not so God's. "He doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth" (Dan. 4:35). God's will is supreme, determining the exercise of all His perfections. He is infinite in wisdom, yet His will regulates the operations of it. He is full of mercy, but His will determines when and to whom He shows it. He is inflexibly just, yet His will decides whether or not justice shall be put forth: observe carefully not "Who can by no means clear the guilty" (as is so generally misquoted), but "Who will by no means clear the guilty" (Exod. 34:7). God first wills or determines that a thing shall be, and then His wisdom contrives the execution of it.
"The election of grace" (Rom. 11:5), then, is not to be understood as the genitive of origin, but of object or character, as in "the Rose of Sharon," "the tree of life," "the children of disobedience." The election of the church, as of all His acts and works, is to be traced right back to the uncontrolled and uncontrollable will of God. Nowhere else in Scripture is the order of the divine counsels so definitely revealed as in Ephesians 1, and nowhere else is emphasis placed so strongly upon God's will. He predestinated unto the adoption of children "according to the good pleasure of his will" (v. 5). He has made known to us "the mystery of his will" (not "grace") and that "according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself" (v. 9). And then, as though that was not sufficiently explicit, the passage closes with "being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will, that we should be to the praise of his glory" (vv. 11, 12). Let us dwell for a moment longer upon that remarkable expression "who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will"(v. 11). Note well it is not "the counsel of his own heart," nor even "the counsel of his own mind," but WILL: not "the will of his own counsel," but "the counsel of his own will."
Herein God differs radically from us. Our wills are influenced by the thoughts of our minds and moved by the affections of our hearts; but not so God's. "He doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth" (Dan. 4:35). God's will is supreme, determining the exercise of all His perfections. He is infinite in wisdom, yet His will regulates the operations of it. He is full of mercy, but His will determines when and to whom He shows it. He is inflexibly just, yet His will decides whether or not justice shall be put forth: observe carefully not "Who can by no means clear the guilty" (as is so generally misquoted), but "Who will by no means clear the guilty" (Exod. 34:7). God first wills or determines that a thing shall be, and then His wisdom contrives the execution of it.
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
"These" ; are a collaboration of Nations that are Against the Lamb.
"These" ; ^^ shall become a group of Nations "under" their "king", ie the Anti-Christ.
"And They"; are "all" individuals whose Lord and King IS the Lamb.
It's a bit confusing at first.
Because All "nations" shall come against God and His Lamb.
What "Nations" do, is dictatated by it's Leaders (ie kings, rulers, etc.)
However, what "individuals" do, is dictated by "individuals"...
Regardless of what (kings / rulers) do.
IOW ~
A Nation can raise armies, be under the power of the anti-Christ, a majority go along with the Nations anti-Christ agenda;
Yet "individuals" can Reject "going along" with the Nations anti-Christ agenda....and become subject to Death...by the hand of the Beasts armies.
(Rejecting allegience, and rejecting the mark of the Beast).
"And They" the rejectors of the mark and allegiance to the Beast...
Are "They" who have become in allegiance to "the Lamb".
It is the Lamb, who will "overcome" those with Allegiance to the Beast.
His "reasons" are clear.
Any He has called / chosen...
AND ALSO "chose/elected" Him...
Become "His" Elect;
IOW ~ God First created all. Then reveals "HE" loves and "DESIRES" all, to Freely Love and Desire Him. When ANY individual Freely chooses to Love and Desire HIM, "HE" becomes the individual mans "ELECT" / "CHOSEN".
He CALLS all to be "saints".
When a man answers His call,
The man is "ELECTING" God to be his God.
Rom 1: [7] To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 1: [2] Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1 Thes 1
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
Billions have been naturally born, and considerably less than all naturally born become WITH God;
So "How many", is not given us in a concrete Number.
Many are Called...Few are Chosen.
(Which is to say, FEW answer the Call and become MADE converted and wholly Whole, and acceptable to be Forever WITH God).
God Knows all things.
Nothing is New, or takes God by surprise.
It is mankind, who stumbles through his natural life, making decisions, wishy washy back and forth, concerning IF he does or does not Believe in God.
It mankind who lands on his own decision to Believe and seek God or Reject Him.
God already KNOWS every mans decision BEFORE the man does.
God has Already Prepared Every mans Place, for Every mans freewill decision.
A Place for men who will choose to be With God and A Place for men who will choose to be Without God.
God IS Just.
Every man WILL receive what they freely Choose.
Glory to God,
Taken
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