The Elect?

[Stranger]

So Jesus didn't die for every sin of every man?

Jesus died for all sins as He paid the price for Adam's sin.

Jesus is the Last Adam but the Second Man. (1 Cor. 15:45-47) Adam's entire race is fallen. Christ, as the Last Adam, payed the price for all in Adam, and the offer of redemption is given. (1 Cor. 15:22) Believe on Jesus Christ. (John 3:16-18)

But though Christ has paid the price for all sins, you cannot remain in the first Adam and have your sins paid for. They are only paid in Christ. You must come out of the first Adam and into the new race of redeemed man, which is found in the Last Adam. You must be born-again.

So, in Adam, all his race is dead and will die. But in Christ, all His race lives and will continue to live. (1 Cor. 15:22)

Does this mean all those who are in the first Adam and stay in the first Adam, had their sins payed for? Yes, it does. But they refused to be redeemed and stayed in their sins.

Stranger

 

[Dave L]

You continue to dither around in your confusion. God saves those who obey the Gospel. That is not self-righteousness but repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. "Lord, be merciful to me a sinner " is not self-righteousness. "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord" is not self-righteousness.

How long will you persist in your confused state? Why don't you study the Scriptures and then ask God to clear your mind from all the theological garbage that has settled there?

You cannot obey in the flesh. It cannot discern the true Christ. You can only repent after being born again. And then it is because you hate sin and love repentance.

 

[Mjh29]

Jesus died for all sins as He paid the price for Adam's sin.

Jesus is the Last Adam but the Second Man. (1 Cor. 15:45-47) Adam's entire race is fallen. Christ, as the Last Adam, payed the price for all in Adam, and the offer of redemption is given. (1 Cor. 15:22) Believe on Jesus Christ. (John 3:16-18)

But though Christ has paid the price for all sins, you cannot remain in the first Adam and have your sins paid for. They are only paid in Christ. You must come out of the first Adam and into the new race of redeemed man, which is found in the Last Adam. You must be born-again.

So, in Adam, all his race is dead and will die. But in Christ, all His race lives and will continue to live. (1 Cor. 15:22)

Does this mean all those who are in the first Adam and stay in the first Adam, had their sins payed for? Yes, it does. But they refused to be redeemed and stayed in their sins.

Stranger

But if Jesus died for all sins, is refusal to be redeemed a sin?

 

[bbyrd009]

Does mercy?

boy, good Q.
But what are we going for with "saved" there?
Anyway I would say "yes," although it wouldn't surprise me if our def of mercy is somewhat whacked too, from like too many Righteous Retribution movies or something.
I say that bc any confessions are usually forced or given with pride?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Jesus died for all sins as He paid the price for Adam's sin.

Cool, end of story, then the debt for all has been paid in full and accepted by the Father. All will enter heaven, their debt having been paid and accepted by the Father.

 

[bbyrd009]

But if Jesus died for all sins, is refusal to be redeemed a sin?

dunno if you read this earlier, but fwiw I would suggest an alternate understanding of "Christ died for my sins" that does not involve the Man Jesus.

I killed Christ in me when I found the world

is the one I currently work from

 

[bbyrd009]

debt for all has been paid in full and accepted by the Father. All will enter heaven, their debt having been paid and accepted by the Father.

No one has ever gone up to heaven

preacher, so wadr I sure dunno where you got that idea, certainly not from the Bible ok
there is only One Immortal
I came that you might have life, more abundantly

et al, four others I guess, and that's just in plain English

 

[bbyrd009]

But before God gave them a skin, they sewed themselves their own covering from fig leaves! They thought they were properly covered, but God apparently did not think so. Does this also relate?

Ha, good one. I guess that was to fool themselves maybe?

 

[bbyrd009]

So.... yes? Everyone is in heaven? A straight answer would be very much appreciated

Wadr I don't think it would!

You might google "Mithraism and Christianity," which google Will autocomplete for you, and see what you will see.

but for anyone following, this is likely a great frame to read
"we are cock-sure, I say, and even wish we were already dead and partying with Jesus"

 

[Mjh29]

Wadr I don't think it would!

You might google "Mithraism and Christianity," which google Will autocomplete for you, and see what you will see.

Abarim can also help I guess

1.) Explain how it wouldn't work. There are only 2 opitions:
~ Christ died for all sins of all men, and lack of ___________ [whatever you say is the prerequisite] is NOT a sin, than there is no penalty for it and all are in heaven
~ Christ died for all sins of all men, and lack of ____________ IS a sin; then Christ's blood covered this sin too, therefore it is forgiven and all are in heaven

2.) "Mithraism and Christianity"


OOOOOkay..... and way out in left field, having absolutely NOTHING to do with the question I asked......

Your point is? IS there a point, of are you just trying to stir the pot with no real purpose?

Are you saying Christianity is just another cult?

 

[bbyrd009]

We are over-confident, I tell you, and even wish that we were already dead...

"Mithraism and Christianity" has everything to do with the point

don't find love until you are ready

y'all have a nice day

 

[bbyrd009]

...There are only 2 opitions:
~ Christ died for all sins of all men, and lack of ___________ [whatever you say is the prerequisite] is NOT a sin, than there is no penalty for it and all are in heaven
~ Christ died for all sins of all men, and lack of ____________ IS a sin; then Christ's blood covered this sin too, therefore it is forgiven and all are in heaven

i mean...no offense, but what is even to be done with you, Mjh29?
How many other parts of the Bible do you refuse to see too? Best of luck in your quest for immortality in the Elysian Fields ok, sincerely

 

[Mjh29]

i mean...no offense, but what is even to be done with you, Mjh29?
How many other parts of the Bible do you refuse to see too? Best of luck in your quest for immortality in the Elysian Fields ok, sincerely

What is to be done with me? Idk, but what I do know is that you are the one who equated Christianity with a cult, said you have 'your Jesus' or some crap, and thinks that thinking logically is crazy! I would never ignore Scriptures. What I'm saying is that either your interpretation of them is wrong, or everyone is in heaven

 

[bbyrd009]

What is to be done with me? Idk, but what I do know is that you are the one who equated Christianity with a cult, said you have 'your Jesus' or some crap, and thinks that thinking logically is crazy! I would never ignore Scriptures. What I'm saying is that either your interpretation of them is wrong, or everyone is in heaven

"Either/or" gotcha, no third option. So I'll let you tell it now ok, I'm done.

And wadr imo you might get away from this "Cult = bad" perception too, at least where Scripture is concerned.
It amounts to a way for us to slur another believer today, but we do not use it the way Scripture does I guess. They seek a truthful understanding of God just like you or me I guess, generally speaking anyway.
Have your beliefs become absolute truths maybe when you weren't looking?
How did that happen?

 

[Stranger]

But if Jesus died for all sins, is refusal to be redeemed a sin?

Yes it is. That changes nothing. Though all their sins are paid for, they remain in their sins because they refuse Christ. One must be 'in Christ'. They remain 'in Adam'.

Stranger

 

[Mjh29]

Yes it is. That changes nothing. Though all their sins are paid for, they remain in their sins because they refuse Christ. One must be 'in Christ'. They remain 'in Adam'.

Stranger

That cannot be true.

If that is a sin, then Jesus blood covered that sin as well, and they are saved. Is refusal of Christ a sin?

 

[Stranger]

Cool, end of story, then the debt for all has been paid in full and accepted by the Father. All will enter heaven, their debt having been paid and accepted by the Father.

No, you're not paying attention. Though all their sins are paid for, they remain 'in Adam'. They must be 'in Christ' to be saved and go to Heaven.

Stranger

 

[Mjh29]

No, you're not paying attention. Though all their sins are paid for, they remain 'in Adam'. They must be 'in Christ' to be saved and go to Heaven.

Stranger

The question is; is being 'Out of Christ' and being 'In Adam' a sin?

 

[Stranger]

That cannot be true.

If that is a sin, then Jesus blood covered that sin as well, and they are saved. Is refusal of Christ a sin?

Jesus blood covered all sin. The question is not if Jesus died for all sins or not. The question is are you in Adam or Christ?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

The question is; is being 'Out of Christ' and being 'In Adam' a sin?

Being in Adam and not in Christ, means you remain in your sins, even though Christ has paid for them all.

Stranger