The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[justbyfaith]

What needs to be realized in this discussion is that it is not OSAS, but POTS, that is the reality concerning eternal security; as is set forth in 1 John 2:17...

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Clearly, those who are Jesus' sheep hear His voice, and He knows them, and they follow Him.

And He gives them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither can anyone pluck them out of His hand...

They can walk away themselves, you say?

Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

Therefore, if there are any verses that seem to say that a man can lose his salvation, it is given to those who are not walking right in order that it might produce in them the fear of the LORD.

For those who are walking right (abiding in Him); it is written that if you do the will of the Lord you will abide for ever (1 John 2:17)...

This does not mean that you will abide for a limited period of time and then will stop abiding.

for ever has the same meaning as everlasting when we are told by Jesus that Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (John 6:47).

everlasting means that if it ever comes to an end (the life that Jesus gives to us), it was temporal rather than everlasting; and therefore, if that tbe the case, Jesus was lying in that verse.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Listen to what you said

you have eternal life as long as you abide and you obey

your trying to earn a reward not receive a gift

You don't understand the Spirit. He's at work through me AS LONG AS I DON'T QUENCH HIM, and go against my new nature. I do what comes naturally, not as those who have to stuggle to control their carnal natures.

You also have the delusion that obedience and abiding is a work - and "we are not saved by works," without understanding what Paul meant. So don't tell me that OSAS doesn't teach anything goes.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

One verse comes to mind that blows these guys ( anti OSAS) out of the water ....
Some things just can’t be argued with. If you have a brain.
“ All Of Those That Believe In Me ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life and shall NEVER come into Condemnation”. Case Closed.

 

[justbyfaith]

One verse comes to mind that blows these guys ( anti OSAS) out of the water ....
Some things just can’t be argued with. If you have a brain.
“ All Of Those That Believe In Me ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life and shall NEVER come into Condemnation”. Case Closed.

John 5:24 (kjv), John 10:27-30.

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jhn 10:27, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Jhn 10:28, And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Jhn 10:29, My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Jhn 10:30, I and my Father are one.

 

[Enoch111]

Why don't we just address the real questions?

No the real question is whether of not God designed a perfect salvation. Those who oppose and revile the eternal security of the believer are woefully ignorant about God's plan of salvation, particularly about the fact that Jesus Himself is ETERNAL LIFE.

Jesus said unto her, I am The Resurrection, and The Life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11:25,26)

For The Life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that Eternal Life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us. (1 John 1:2)

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and Eternal Life. (1 John 5:20)

For the Bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. (John 6:33)

And Jesus said unto them, I am the Bread of Life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. (John 6:35)

And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:40)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You don't understand the Spirit. He's at work through me AS LONG AS I DON'T QUENCH HIM, and go against my new nature. I do what comes naturally, not as those who have to stuggle to control their carnal natures.

You also have the delusion that obedience and abiding is a work - and "we are not saved by works," without understanding what Paul meant. So don't tell me that OSAS doesn't teach anything goes.

You have too many I’s

When you repent and become like the tax collector and fall on your knees. Or as Jesus said, became poor in spirit (literally spiritually bankrupt) then YOU will understand the spirit,

you say your not saved by works (what you do) yet you continue to say I must I do, I I I....in other words you contradict what you are saying

do not quench the spirit, by whom you have been seeded until the day of redemption.

you got the first part right, you totally ignored the second part.

Paul three times makes this claim of being sealed until the day of redemption. How you can read this and claim if you quench the spirit you will loose or break the seal of the spirit, is beyond me.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

One verse comes to mind that blows these guys ( anti OSAS) out of the water ....
Some things just can’t be argued with. If you have a brain.
“ All Of Those That Believe In Me ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life and shall NEVER come into Condemnation”. Case Closed.

Sadly the words never, eternal, everlasting and forever have different meanings to them

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No the real question is whether of not God designed a perfect salvation. Those who oppose and revile the eternal security of the believer are woefully ignorant about God's plan of salvation, particularly about the fact that Jesus Himself is ETERNAL LIFE.

Jesus said unto her, I am The Resurrection, and The Life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11:25,26)

For The Life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that Eternal Life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us. (1 John 1:2)

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and Eternal Life. (1 John 5:20)

For the Bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. (John 6:33)

And Jesus said unto them, I am the Bread of Life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. (John 6:35)

And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:40)

Amen, John 6 is the poster chapter for eternal security.

sadly they have mocked God and turned it into a flesh and blood communion/eucharist Ceremony that does not give the one who does what Jesus said anything he promised

 

[FollowHim]

This thread is needed because eternal security advocates tend to ignore relevant biblical contexts and verse clusters. The thread will initially focus on the 2nd half of the first century (Revelation and then Hebrews) and then shift to Paul and finally to Jesus. In the process, it will be demonstrated that the election and perseverance texts cited by the OSAS advocates are actually irrelevant to the issue. To avoid chaotic discussion please follow my lead and focus your remarks on the biblical book currently under discussion.

1. THE BOOK OF REVELATION

The case against OSAS in Revelation is clearcut and decisive.

“If you conquer, you will be clothed like them in white robes and I will not erase your name from the Book of Life (3:6).”

The threat of erasure implies that the church of Sardis already has their names written in the Book of Life! To prevent the loss of their salvation, they must “conquer,” that is, they must heed the Lord's threat: “Remember then what you have received and heard; obey it and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief (3:3).” These Christians must persevere in their faith like “those who have not soiled their garments (3:4).”

In the letter to the church of Smyrna the need to “conquer” is again stressed as the way to avoid losing one's salvation: “Whoever conquers will not be harmed by the second death (2:11).” And how can Christians conquer? “Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of life (3:10).” Again, the implication is that if they are not faithful, their names that are already written in the Book of Life will be erased and they will forfeit “the crown of life.” Remember, the Greek word for “faith” also means “faithful.”

OSAS - is true for the elect, because from eternity they were chosen, and foreknown by God.

But as mortals we only can see the fruit of the heart and the flow of Christs word alive in the soul of another.
The mistake made by many is once secure in Christ the rest is irrelevant, behaviour, sin, faith, truth, lies.

It is like the emotional concept of being safe in God, means no boundaries or responsibilities or power of the Holy Spirit working through every aspect of ones life is a reality. So I would suggest the sin we can fall into is criticising Gods security and encouragement, while not opposing the delusion and fear people bound in sin and self condemnation believe they are not acceptable to the Lord.

As Gods people we face many frauds and liars, reprobates who will excuse behaviour and evil, while claiming to speak on Gods behalf while denying the walk and love that grounds being in Christ.

What is true, if we the elect do not rise up and conquer, overcome, walk the path carrying our cross, we do not know Jesus and are deluded.
This is the problem of a polarised discussion, by becoming the mirror image of the opposition one falls into their own heresy. This heresy is based on abiding sin, and hard hearts, which can only be resolved in their minds, by security in faith without reality within. And after discussing such issues for years with such folk, they do not realise how hard their hearts are, when topics which should stir them to weeping, bounce off like a bb gun pellet.

To make this pertinent today, Covid 19 and people dying. I know this disease kills, disables, destroys, it is the biggest threat to our health we have had in our generation. Good loving caring people have had PTSD reactions to the level of death and not being able to cope with this shock to loved ones and friends. Now among believers some say this is all a lie and fraud, not realising the insult and offence this creates to loving caring people who know its reality. But hard deluded hearts only see their own victimisation and need to maintain their own security, rather than see the truth.

Now if these same folk claim to know God and spiritual reality, one can simply say they know nothing other than self serving delusion.
So it is hard to see the truth through these issues, because the truth is often a mixture of so many issues, and God literally transcends them all.
God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

You have too many I’s

When you repent and become like the tax collector and fall on your knees. Or as Jesus said, became poor in spirit (literally spiritually bankrupt) then YOU will understand the spirit,

you say your not saved by works (what you do) yet you continue to say I must I do, I I I....in other words you contradict what you are saying

do not quench the spirit, by whom you have been seeded until the day of redemption.

you got the first part right, you totally ignored the second part.

Paul three times makes this claim of being sealed until the day of redemption. How you can read this and claim if you quench the spirit you will loose or break the seal of the spirit, is beyond me.

This is the penitent sinner who never realises victory or reality in Christ. An attempt here is made to try and personalise a position, "You have too many I's"

I got to laugh, it is like a critical thinker who believes they know their audience and how they are built, and their knowledge once shared will convict the audience straight away and make them like themselves. It is even funnier, because being with someone for years, can still make one wonder how they operate and behave as they do.

I do not know the author of these words, but this simplistic techique and presumption is clearly delusional. It assumes meaning is derived from ones attitude and outlook, and everything in life should take this view, and then heaven would be achieved, or is it, the world would continue asis but everyone would be saved. It is this delusional that the cross was this ineffectual, that the repentant heart, with the creator living within actually makes no difference to the believer, no one outside can see the difference or does it matter.

What is even more shocking is the idea that this view of Jesus should take over the world and is Christ purpose, rather than loving victorious people shinning as lights in a dark place to the glory of the living God. But Jesus said this

14 "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."
Matt 5:14-16

Love does this to you, but hard hearted people do not hear or know what this means, literally, but thankfully dear brothers and sisters in Christ, you do. God bless you

 

[Taken]

The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS
^ OP

Refutation-
OPINIONS without Understanding, is without merit.

Once...Saved
Requires The ACT of The Lord God to Have Given the Gift of HIS Salvation To an individual...

Refute once The Lord God HAS Given the Gift of HIS Salvation TO an Individual, The Lord God "TAKES BACK" HIS Gift of Salvation...

Where or where is such a Scriptural Teaching...that the Lord God, foolishly GIVES, HIS Gift of Salvation, and "THEN", acknowledges HIS "foolish error", and TAKES back HIS GIFT?

Beserk? Anyone?
Please DO Show the Scripture, of HOW the All Knowing Power of God, "Foolishly GAVE HIS Gift of Salvation, to an Individual, who Would Reject Him".?

* And How about...One Saved Always Saved DENIERS...
Give your own Testimonies...
HOW MANY TIMES...HAVE YOU Been SAVED?
LOL.

Legitimate Questions. Don't be Shy.
Tell us.
Waiting!!!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ChristisGod]

The underlying questions in this endless debate are: What constitutes backsliding and how does it affect salvation? Why don't we just address the real questions?

I've never found " backsliding" in the bible thats a man made thing.

 

[user]

The underlying questions in this endless debate are: What constitutes backsliding and how does it affect salvation? Why don't we just address the real questions?

I agree with Barny. If a person who is once saved, should backslide and die in that backslid position, is he still saved? What happens when that backslid person robs a store and is shot in a hail of fire and dies? Taking this down that path to the uttermost.

I've never found " backsliding" in the bible thats a man made thing.

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


God Bless!

 

[ChristisGod]

I agree with Barny. If a person who is once saved, should backslide and die in that backslid position, is he still saved? What happens when that backslid person robs a store and is shot in a hail of fire and dies? Taking this down that path to the uttermost.




Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


God Bless!

like I said no mention of "backsliding" in scripture

 

[ChristisGod]

John 10:27-30
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Do you believe Jesus above or deny Him ?

hope this helps !!!

 

[user]

like I said no mention of "backsliding" in scripture

Perhaps you should open the Word of God:

In Jeremiah 2:19 God says, "Your own wickedness will correct you, and your backslidings will rebuke you. Know therefore and see that it is an evil and bitter thing that you have forsaken the Lord your God...."

Also, Jeremiah 3:22 says, "Return, you backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings."


Hebrews 6;4-6 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Proverbs 14:14 The backslider in heart will be filled with the fruit of his ways, and a good man will be filled with the fruit of his ways


Hope this helps.
God bless!

 

[ChristisGod]

Perhaps you should open the Word of God:

In Jeremiah 2:19 God says, "Your own wickedness will correct you, and your backslidings will rebuke you. Know therefore and see that it is an evil and bitter thing that you have forsaken the Lord your God...."

Also, Jeremiah 3:22 says, "Return, you backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings."


Hebrews 6;4-6 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Proverbs 14:14 The backslider in heart will be filled with the fruit of his ways, and a good man will be filled with the fruit of his ways


Hope this helps.
God bless!

try the NT with those who are born again

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is the penitent sinner who never realises victory or reality in Christ. An attempt here is made to try and personalise a position, "You have too many I's"

I got to laugh, it is like a critical thinker who believes they know their audience and how they are built, and their knowledge once shared will convict the audience straight away and make them like themselves. It is even funnier, because being with someone for years, can still make one wonder how they operate and behave as they do.

I do not know the author of these words, but this simplistic techique and presumption is clearly delusional. It assumes meaning is derived from ones attitude and outlook, and everything in life should take this view, and then heaven would be achieved, or is it, the world would continue asis but everyone would be saved. It is this delusional that the cross was this ineffectual, that the repentant heart, with the creator living within actually makes no difference to the believer, no one outside can see the difference or does it matter.

What is even more shocking is the idea that this view of Jesus should take over the world and is Christ purpose, rather than loving victorious people shinning as lights in a dark place to the glory of the living God. But Jesus said this

14 "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."
Matt 5:14-16

Love does this to you, but hard hearted people do not hear or know what this means, literally, but thankfully dear brothers and sisters in Christ, you do. God bless you

Peter! Long time no see! I see you have not changed a bit

anyone with any sense would realize that she has to many I’d

salvation is not what can I do
For you god. It’s what Can you do for
Me! When you add I to the equation you are admitting god needs your help

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree with Barny. If a person who is once saved, should backslide and die in that backslid position, is he still saved? What happens when that backslid person robs a store and is shot in a hail of fire and dies? Taking this down that path to the uttermost.




Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


God Bless!

Actually John answers this question

they were never if ya for if they were if ya they never would have departed

 

[ChristisGod]

Actually John answers this question

they were never if ya for if they were if ya they never would have departed

Amen to the truth !