The everlasting gospel, part 2: The fallen

[michaelvpardo]

We are judged after death, no second chances, unfortunately.

Those who never heard the gospel are judged by how they obeyed their conscience which is Gods law written on their hearts, which will accuse or excuse them.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

So if men judge themselves by their conscience and find no fault in themselves, they're clear of condemnation?

 

[amigo de christo]

So if men judge themselves by their conscience and find no fault in themselves, they're clear of condemnation?

exactly . a man cannot judge himself by his conscious . Even as a wicked pagan i had a conscious , but GOD was not IN my conscious .
We must examine ourselves all right . BUT DO SO against the biblical truth in that glorious and wonderous bible .
Now let the KING be praised my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

Many have a seared conscious . Many have not GOD , not the SPIRIT in their conscious .
These are deadly and dangerous times . One many beleives in abortion , another in gay marriage
and their conscious believes in this . WE must learn our bibles . Feast on the holy scriptures .
Make sure its the biblical JESUS we indeed are following . Test all spirits , test all . And do so against sound biblical doctrine .

 

[Curtis]

So if men judge themselves by their conscience and find no fault in themselves, they're clear of condemnation?

The conscience is Gods law, written on their hearts, and it’s their conscience - not their mind or thoughts - that judges then and either excuses, or accuses them on judgment day.

They aren’t in control of that.

That might conflict with the theology of some, but that’s what scripture says.

 

[Timtofly]

Ok, then what did the Lord mean in chapter 43 of the book of Ezekiel when starting to show him the vision of that temple?
And He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel forever. Ezekiel 43:7

A throne and a river are two separate things. The throne is already on earth as the base, the footstool. We cannot see it, but it is here. There is not a river flowing out of Jerusalem at the moment unseen by fleshly eyes. The river and throne of Christ happen at the Second Coming in Jerusalem.

 

[Timtofly]

Nope. Jesus said in the 'resurrection' they don't marry, but are as the angels of God in Heaven. That means they are IN an angelic type body, which cannot have children. This is why the angels are called "sons of God" in the Book of Job and Genesis 6, it's because all the angels all have the image of men.

So they don't have babies in Paradise right now, nor do they have babies in the resurrection in the world to come. Your idea is like something a pagan would come up with.

Sorry, but the angels are called stars, and humans are called the sons of God in Job. Two totally different creations. Jesus did not say angelic bodies. Jesus said like the angels. Like the angels do not procreate, neither will the sons of God. It is not that the body, cannot. It is that there is no need to.

So you don't accept those in Paradise have bodies. Most people do not believe that. They were taught that from human theology. Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 5 that the soul leaves this corruptible body, and recieves an incorruptible one that is permanent immediately. The soul of those in Paradise is never without a body.

 

[Timtofly]

What kind of whacked wierdness are you on about now, that those in Christ are waiting for the GWT??? I never said any such thing. Check your eyes!!!

And no... the resurrection of the dead is NOT YET. Don't you remember Apostle Paul rebuking Hymenaeus and Philetus for saying the resurrection is already past?

There are some posters here claiming the GWT is when all stand before God. You sounded like one of them. Some deny the Millennium, while some accept the Millennium, but it is to them the idea all stand at the GWT.


Paul was rebuking them, because they claimed Christ had returned. Matthew 27 already gave us the resurrection at the Cross. John 11 already gave us the resurrection of Lazarus. A resurrection had already happened. Stephen "walked" into heaven while being stoned to death. That is a resurrection from death to life.

Preterism did not happen in the first century. That is what Paul was rebuking.

 

[Timtofly]

You should be careful, because here is what you said in your post #68:



That's your declaration that those of the resurrection can have flesh offspring, which of course is a falsehood. There is no Scripture that supports such an idea.

That false idea comes from the orthodox Jews and their deceived brethren who think the resurrection is to another flesh body.

Physical body, not Adam's flesh body. No one is genetically linked to Adam after the Second Coming. A resurrection is to a permanent God given body. If you think Adam’s flesh populates the earth after the Second Coming, that is the heresy of the Orthodox Jews.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Physical body, not Adam's flesh body. No one is genetically linked to Adam after the Second Coming. A resurrection is to a permanent God given body. If you think Adam’s flesh populates the earth after the Second Coming, that is the heresy of the Orthodox Jews.

Except that scripture tells us that there will still be rebellious behavior among the gentiles during the millennial reign of Christ. Obviously those outside the body are not perfected and without sin. Your current eschatology (as stated here) doesn't fully align with the word of God.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Many have a seared conscious . Many have not GOD , not the SPIRIT in their conscious .
These are deadly and dangerous times . One many beleives in abortion , another in gay marriage
and their conscious believes in this . WE must learn our bibles . Feast on the holy scriptures .
Make sure its the biblical JESUS we indeed are following . Test all spirits , test all . And do so against sound biblical doctrine .

Thank you brother. I always appreciate biblical wisdom and sound doctrine. I do believe it is wise to test the spirits, and I also believe that the "test" is quite simple and given to us by the Apostle John. In his time, the first century AD, there were already many antichrists and deceivers. From comments in the epistles it seems as though there were even epistles circulated with false authorship attributed to the Apostles.
John wrote:
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 1 John 4:1-3
This is not a test of sound doctrine but of a righteous spirit.
It has been my experience that cultists are never willing to confess that Jesus Christ and all that His title means as declared by scripture, has come in the flesh. Mohammed believed that Jesus was born to a woman named Mary, but did not believe that He is the only begotten Son of God, but called Him a prophet. Jehovah's witnesses are willing to call Him a son of God, but not the only begotten Son and equal to the Father. Others call the Lord a created being as well, always making Him less than the person of the Eternal God and Creator in a tabernacle of human flesh.
This site has rules about challenging the salvation of posters, but no born again believer has a problem with making a public confession of their faith in Christ and I find no valid reason for offense at being asked to share the reason for one's faith. On the contrary, those I know personally that are "in christ" are delighted to talk about our beloved Savior. Who doesn't like to talk about those that they love and that love them?
This isn't the same as being duplicative and asking questions just to catch someone in an error, something that the pharisees and scribes did to our Lord. In His grace the Lord did not condemn His detractors though He had no problem with calling out a wrong spirit, but rather, warned them not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Even though the Holy Spirit was not given to permanently indwell His disciples before the resurrection, He was still with them and performed great works through them to the glory of our Father through faith in His Son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ, blessed forever. Amen.

 

[michaelvpardo]

The conscience is Gods law, written on their hearts, and it’s their conscience - not their mind or thoughts - that judges then and either excuses, or accuses them on judgment day.

They aren’t in control of that.

That might conflict with the theology of some, but that’s what scripture says.

Pretty sure that it's Christ's words that judges us all at His "throne" or bema seat, not our own appraisal of conscience.
48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. John 12:48
But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God. 1 Corinthians 4:3-5

 

[Timtofly]

Except that scripture tells us that there will still be rebellious behavior among the gentiles during the millennial reign of Christ. Obviously those outside the body are not perfected and without sin. Your current eschatology (as stated here) doesn't fully align with the word of God.

What verses? Cannot comment on your interpretation alone.

However, rebellion under the law was immediate death. Parents were told to stone their children, lest rebellion spread. Individual rebellion will mean instant Death. I would say that one's name would be removed from the Lamb's book of life. I think rebellion is plausible, but rare.

What many try to claim is that sin and sin nature are rampant. That is not found in Scripture any where. Many claim Daniel 9:24 has been settled and implemented now. I do not see how.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The end of the 7th Trumpet brings these to reality. Revelation 10:7

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

We in sinful flesh cannot comprehend to the full extent life without sin. We imagine utopia at a price of liberty or freedom. Some have to pay so others can enjoy life. That is not the Scriptural Millennium. No one will even know what sin is. There will be laws. There will be no need to be rebellious and break them. Will some attempt to break them? You seem to have a reason based on sinful nature, that will happen. How about based on not having a sinful nature?

If Satan had not had conversations with Eve, would Eve have eventually eaten? Would her randomn thoughts just come and go on their own without acting on them?

 

[michaelvpardo]

What verses? Cannot comment on your interpretation alone.

However, rebellion under the law was immediate death. Parents were told to stone their children, lest rebellion spread. Individual rebellion will mean instant Death. I would say that one's name would be removed from the Lamb's book of life. I think rebellion is plausible, but rare.

What many try to claim is that sin and sin nature are rampant. That is not found in Scripture any where. Many claim Daniel 9:24 has been settled and implemented now. I do not see how.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The end of the 7th Trumpet brings these to reality. Revelation 10:7

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

We in sinful flesh cannot comprehend to the full extent life without sin. We imagine utopia at a price of liberty or freedom. Some have to pay so others can enjoy life. That is not the Scriptural Millennium. No one will even know what sin is. There will be laws. There will be no need to be rebellious and break them. Will some attempt to break them? You seem to have a reason based on sinful nature, that will happen. How about based on not having a sinful nature?

If Satan had not had conversations with Eve, would Eve have eventually eaten? Would her randomn thoughts just come and go on their own without acting on them?

I've already shared a number of such scriptures and you haven't apprehended them, but I'll repeat myself for your sake friend.
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. Zechariah 14:16-9
“Who are these who fly like a cloud,
And like doves to their roosts?
9 Surely the coastlands shall wait for Me;
And the ships of Tarshish will come first,
To bring your sons from afar,
Their silver and their gold with them,
To the name of the Lord your God,
And to the Holy One of Israel,
Because He has glorified you.

10 “The sons of foreigners shall build up your walls,
And their kings shall minister to you;
For in My wrath I struck you,
But in My favor I have had mercy on you.
11 Therefore your gates shall be open continually;
They shall not be shut day or night,
That men may bring to you the wealth of the Gentiles,
And their kings in procession.
12 For the nation and kingdom which will not serve you shall perish,
And those nations shall be utterly ruined. Isaiah 60: 8-12

 

[Davy]

Physical body, not Adam's flesh body. No one is genetically linked to Adam after the Second Coming. A resurrection is to a permanent God given body. If you think Adam’s flesh populates the earth after the Second Coming, that is the heresy of the Orthodox Jews.

Let me remind again what you said in your post #98...

---------------------------------------------------------
Timtofly said:

"Not that those resurrected in Revelation 20:4 cannot have offspring."

------------------------------------------------------------

What you said there goes directly against what Lord Jesus said in Matthew 22:30 that they don't marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

No, there is no offspring possible in the resurrection either.

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank you brother. I always appreciate biblical wisdom and sound doctrine. I do believe it is wise to test the spirits, and I also believe that the "test" is quite simple and given to us by the Apostle John. In his time, the first century AD, there were already many antichrists and deceivers. From comments in the epistles it seems as though there were even epistles circulated with false authorship attributed to the Apostles.
John wrote:
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 1 John 4:1-3
This is not a test of sound doctrine but of a righteous spirit.
It has been my experience that cultists are never willing to confess that Jesus Christ and all that His title means as declared by scripture, has come in the flesh. Mohammed believed that Jesus was born to a woman named Mary, but did not believe that He is the only begotten Son of God, but called Him a prophet. Jehovah's witnesses are willing to call Him a son of God, but not the only begotten Son and equal to the Father. Others call the Lord a created being as well, always making Him less than the person of the Eternal God and Creator in a tabernacle of human flesh.
This site has rules about challenging the salvation of posters, but no born again believer has a problem with making a public confession of their faith in Christ and I find no valid reason for offense at being asked to share the reason for one's faith. On the contrary, those I know personally that are "in christ" are delighted to talk about our beloved Savior. Who doesn't like to talk about those that they love and that love them?
This isn't the same as being duplicative and asking questions just to catch someone in an error, something that the pharisees and scribes did to our Lord. In His grace the Lord did not condemn His detractors though He had no problem with calling out a wrong spirit, but rather, warned them not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Even though the Holy Spirit was not given to permanently indwell His disciples before the resurrection, He was still with them and performed great works through them to the glory of our Father through faith in His Son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ, blessed forever. Amen.

Rememeber this as well , if anyone comes and preaches another Jesus , another gospel , Yeah dont heed a word they say .
Many can even say the gospel doctrinally correct and they can even proclaim the divinity of Christ
and yet , Just like i once did they follow darkness , another jesus , a jesus that is an idol of their own heart and their own making .
And that is IDOLATRY . IF we make up a JESUS that suits our own ambitions , we just invented an idol , a god to our own making .
Never forget this . Loving JESUS is truly tied into obeying HIM . The two cannot be seperated . Who we love is who we obey .
And we do so with joy . LET THE KING BE PRAISED .

 

[michaelvpardo]

Rememeber this as well , if anyone comes and preaches another Jesus , another gospel , Yeah dont heed a word they say .
Many can even say the gospel doctrinally correct and they can even proclaim the divinity of Christ
and yet , Just like i once did they follow darkness , another jesus , a jesus that is an idol of their own heart and their own making .
And that is IDOLATRY . IF we make up a JESUS that suits our own ambitions , we just invented an idol , a god to our own making .
Never forget this . Loving JESUS is truly tied into obeying HIM . The two cannot be seperated . Who we love is who we obey .
And we do so with joy . LET THE KING BE PRAISED .

We'll leave that to the Jehovah's witnesses, the muslims, the Luciferians, the Free Masons, and everyone else that would deny the Christ as He is, was, and always will be.

 

[michaelvpardo]

 

[michaelvpardo]

 

[Timtofly]

I've already shared a number of such scriptures and you haven't apprehended them, but I'll repeat myself for your sake friend.
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. Zechariah 14:16-9
“Who are these who fly like a cloud,
And like doves to their roosts?
9 Surely the coastlands shall wait for Me;
And the ships of Tarshish will come first,
To bring your sons from afar,
Their silver and their gold with them,
To the name of the Lord your God,
And to the Holy One of Israel,
Because He has glorified you.

10 “The sons of foreigners shall build up your walls,
And their kings shall minister to you;
For in My wrath I struck you,
But in My favor I have had mercy on you.
11 Therefore your gates shall be open continually;
They shall not be shut day or night,
That men may bring to you the wealth of the Gentiles,
And their kings in procession.
12 For the nation and kingdom which will not serve you shall perish,
And those nations shall be utterly ruined. Isaiah 60: 8-12

It is the rule of the iron rod. There are laws. There is no sin. Will a whole nation be killed for rebellion. Yes. If part of a nation wants to go up, but is voted down by the majority, is the whole nation condemned to death? Not enough information, but a nation as a whole can be punished, or the whole nation killed according to how much of the nation is in rebellion.

Why would the majority be voted down by a minority?

 

[michaelvpardo]

It is the rule of the iron rod. There are laws. There is no sin. Will a whole nation be killed for rebellion. Yes. If part of a nation wants to go up, but is voted down by the majority, is the whole nation condemned to death? Not enough information, but a nation as a whole can be punished, or the whole nation killed according to how much of the nation is in rebellion.

Why would the majority be voted down by a minority?

If you read all the passages about the millennial kingdom you'll find that there is a final rebellion when Satan is released. Rebellion is sin and always is. Your view of the "end times" just doesn't hold true unless you try to reason away what the scripture plainly says. Disobedience is sin. There is no need to rule with a rod of iron where there is no sin. There's also at least one verse that mentions the offspring of those Hebrews who are returned to the land from all the nations. The church may not be given in marriage in the resurrection, but it's clear from scripture that folks in Israel continue to have babies. Maybe you should just go back and read through all the prophets a few times. I keep seeing things that I missed before and have a few unanswered questions left in my mind, but I'm never disappointed by the teaching of the Holy Spirit. He kind of makes words just jump off the page. If you do word studies, a thorough study on "gentile " can add a great deal of understanding, especially concerning evangelizing Jewish folks familiar with scripture from the old testament (we're the enemies and those that enslaved and dispersed them around the world.)