The "Fall" in Genesis (what does the text of Scripture say?)

[Nancy]

Genesis 2:16-17 16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."


Notice that God DOES NOT tell Adam IF you eat from it you will surely die. God commands Adam not to eat of the fruit and tells him that in the day he eats of it he will surely die.

Notice that God does not tell Adam that he will “die on the day he eats of the fruit” but that in the day he eats of it he will die, or that death will be a certainty (מוּת‎ מוּת or transliterated muth muth, die die). ‎ From the point of the command to Adam’s sin death was in the balance, hanging out just beyond the frame. Once Adam disobeys death will enter the world (at least the world of man).

Genesis 3:17-19 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."


Adam ate of the fruit.

What was the consequences of Adam’s disobedience? 1. The ground was cursed and Adam would have to work to eat of it. 2. Adam would return to the dust from which he was taken (Adam would die and his body would decay).

What change(s) happened to Adam?

Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"—

Adam became like God knowing good and evil.

"What change(s) happened to Adam?

Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"—

Adam became like God knowing good and evil.

Yes, Adam was out of fellowship with God for eating the forbidden fruit so...he was no longer welcome in the Garden of Eden and was tossed outside of it to, like you said, the place where he was created. Had he eaten of the Tree of Life afterwards...humans would have no chance at all for redemption as the Tree of life is for, well, life! And human kind would have remained in an eternity of sin and debauchery.
JMHO

 

[farouk]

"What change(s) happened to Adam?

Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"—

Adam became like God knowing good and evil.

Yes, Adam was out of fellowship with God for eating the forbidden fruit so...he was no longer welcome in the Garden of Eden and was tossed outside of it to, like you said, the place where he was created. Had he eaten of the Tree of Life afterwards...humans would have no chance at all for redemption as the Tree of life is for, well, life! And human kind would have remained in an eternity of sin and debauchery.
JMHO

@Nancy The New Testament doctrines of sanctification and separation are linked to this.

 

[Base12]

The flaming Cherubim in Genesis 3 represent God removing His Adobe off this earth where it once was, as shown in Genesis 2. Those Cherubim are guardians of the Tree of Life in God's Garden, which today is in another dimension of existence.

In other words, on the other side of the Portal.

 

[Base12]

What I'm about to post is for a future generation that may find this information. No offense, but most of you here are so indoctrinated with what you were TOLD to believe, there really isn't much hope.

The fact that you folks believe a Loving God either annihilates someone or torments them for all of Eternity just shows you do not posses the necessary Critical Thinking Skills to get past the lies you've been taught about Hell and the Lake of Fire. You Truly are your own worst enemy.

As a consequence, the information I will be presenting will look like 'gobblygook' or whatever idiotic word you people use when a subject is above your comprehension level. You are nothing but Dunces in the classroom making fun of the Teacher and the subject matter. Remember how sad and pathetic they were back in Grade School? Yeah, that's how a majority of you act on this Forum.

Anyhoo, on with the show...

As I've proven over and over again, the Lake of Fire is merely a portal back into the re-birthing process. Spirits are recycled. That's what God does with them. That's what Scripture teaches.

The Cherubim and Flaming Sword in Genesis are simply another perspective of that same Portal.

When the Stars in Revelation fall to Earth, they too go through the same Portal...

Revelation 6:13
"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind"

Oh look. A Fig Tree... like the leaves Adam and Eve tried to cover themselves with.



The Fig Tree represents Human Genetics. The Stars are Children about to be conceived in the Womb after passing through the fire.

A lot of Wicked Women are about to give birth to some sick puppies.

Now here is the critical part of how all of this works. Portals have entrances and exits. I've just described some of the entrances, but where is the exit?

Inside here...

The Tabernacle in the Wilderness is a picture of an Ovum at the Moment of Conception. The Portal to this World is via this...

The Ark of the Covenant represents the Nucleolus of the Cell where Spirit, Soul and Body all meet for the first time as a Child is conceived...

Hebrews 4:12
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart"

That is how each and every one of you arrived here. You entered from between the Two Cherubim and Word of God Sword...

Look familiar?

The Cherubim of Genesis and the Cherubim of the Temple are describing the same thing.

That is the Birth Portal.

The Flaming Sword represents DNA. The flames come from Phosphorus that make up the two Serpent Strands.

Please LEARN WHERE THE SEAT OF SATAN IS...

Elemental phosphorus was first isolated as white phosphorus in 1669. White phosphorus emits a faint glow when exposed to oxygen – hence the name, taken from Greek mythology, meaning "light-bearer" (Latin Lucifer)

Phosphorus - Wikipedia

The Seat of Satan is in your DNA. Duh!!!

The Cross represents the Chromosome. The Serpent on a Pole is RNA.

Again, it's another perspective of the same thing...

Hebrews 10:20
"By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh"

Here is yet another perspective...

Pattern Recognition is your friend people.



Oh, and let's not forget that Tophet, the Lake of Fire, is Vesta the Hearth Goddess...

And what does she look like?

"The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few, and were limited to tales of miraculous impregnation by a phallus appearing in the flames of the hearth—the manifestation of the goddess"

Vesta (mythology) - Wikipedia

THE LAKE OF FIRE IS THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION!!!

Ariel is that same Goddess! The Hearth. EVERLASTING FIRE!

Isaiah 29:2 (New Living Translation)
"Yet I will bring disaster upon you, and there will be much weeping and sorrow. For Jerusalem will become what her name Ariel means— an altar covered with blood"

The Unsaved get thrown into the Altar of the Tabernacle Cell...

Just lol at you people for mocking this info.

 

[Davy]

In other words, on the other side of the Portal.

Portal? Where's that written in God's Word?

God's Word teaches there are TWO different dimensions of existence. This earthly material dimension is one, and the invisible heavenly dimension is the other one, which is where God's Abode today is.

Per Genesis 2, God's Garden of Eden was once upon this earth, with God's River flowing out of Eden to feed four other rivers upon the earth, two of which still exist today (Euphrates river, and the Tigris river, called Hiddekel in Gen.2).

Gen 2:10-14
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
KJV

That is the River of the Waters of Life mentioned in Revelation 22. It is a real River, God's River, and it is to return to the holy land as written in Ezekiel 47.

In the Septuagint Greek Old Testament Bible, the word Paradise is used for Eden. God's Paradise was once upon this ancient earth.

 

[Davy]

What I'm about to post is for a future generation that may find this information. No offense, but most of you here are so indoctrinated with what you were TOLD to believe, there really isn't much hope.

The fact that you folks believe a Loving God either annihilates someone or torments them for all of Eternity just shows you do not posses the necessary Critical Thinking Skills to get past the lies you've been taught about Hell and the Lake of Fire. You Truly are your own worst enemy.

As a consequence, the information I will be presenting will look like 'gobblygook' or whatever idiotic word you people use when a subject is above your comprehension level. You are nothing but Dunces in the classroom making fun of the Teacher and the subject matter. Remember how sad and pathetic they were back in Grade School? Yeah, that's how a majority of you act on this Forum.

Anyhoo, on with the show...

As I've proven over and over again, the Lake of Fire is merely a portal back into the re-birthing process. Spirits are recycled. That's what God does with them. That's what Scripture teaches.

The Cherubim and Flaming Sword in Genesis are simply another perspective of that same Portal.

When the Stars in Revelation fall to Earth, they too go through the same Portal...

Revelation 6:13
"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind"

Oh look. A Fig Tree... like the leaves Adam and Eve tried to cover themselves with.



The Fig Tree represents Human Genetics. The Stars are Children about to be conceived in the Womb after passing through the fire.

A lot of Wicked Women are about to give birth to some sick puppies.

Now here is the critical part of how all of this works. Portals have entrances and exits. I've just described some of the entrances, but where is the exit?

Inside here...

The Tabernacle in the Wilderness is a picture of an Ovum at the Moment of Conception. The Portal to this World is via this...

The Ark of the Covenant represents the Nucleolus of the Cell where Spirit, Soul and Body all meet for the first time as a Child is conceived...

Hebrews 4:12
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart"

That is how each and every one of you arrived here. You entered from between the Two Cherubim and Word of God Sword...

Look familiar?

The Cherubim of Genesis and the Cherubim of the Temple are describing the same thing.

That is the Birth Portal.

The Flaming Sword represents DNA. The flames come from Phosphorus that make up the two Serpent Strands.

Please LEARN WHERE THE SEAT OF SATAN IS...

Elemental phosphorus was first isolated as white phosphorus in 1669. White phosphorus emits a faint glow when exposed to oxygen – hence the name, taken from Greek mythology, meaning "light-bearer" (Latin Lucifer)

Phosphorus - Wikipedia

The Seat of Satan is in your DNA. Duh!!!
....

The dunce status is upon you for delving into those occult Kabbalistic doctrines which are NOT written in God's Word.

You have no idea where Satan's seat is. Comparing it with DNA certainly is foolishness.

And the flaming sword used to 'protect' the way to the tree of life is symbolic of God having moved... His Abode off... this earth, to the invisible dimension of the Heavenly where He is now!

Our Heavenly Father is NOT on some far away planet in another galaxy, for the universe is still this earthly material dimension we live in. He is not an alien extra-terrestrial. God's Paradise, where His Garden of Eden is today, is in the invisible Heavenly dimension, behind a 'veil' we cannot see (unless He allows it like He did with Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 12, and Isaiah in Isaiah 6).

 

[Timtofly]

1 Cor 15 is speaking about Adam bringing the second death upon all of mankind. We speak of the second death as being a spiritual death but the reality is that the second death is a complete separation of each of our spirits from God. It is not as such speaking of a spiritual death. That has been a man made construct and it is not in line with God's words on the subject.

Shalom

This is not spiritual death. We are dead spiritually, because our spirit is in God’s presence. Our spirit is dead to us. Or literally, we are dead without our spirit. The body of Spirit, Adam was created with, was that which God had communication with. They hid from God, because they knew this spirit body was gone. The were dead spiritually, thus without eating from the tree of life, their body of flesh would die, not their soul. God never told Moses where the soul went. God did show Moses and the Hebrews where a living body went. The earth opened up and swallowed them whole. By David’s day, David claims his soul would not be left in sheol. Why was this spiritual death still not known to this very day, in this very thread?

Moses was told that in Noah's day, the sons of God had spirits that were at odds with God's Spirit. The sons of God had their spirits, but the sons of Adam did not. Yet God saw a righteous (fallen human) Noah, a descendant of Adam. It was through this one man that humankind lived, and all of the created sons of God, God destroyed. The physical has to come first. No human after the Flood had a spiritual body.

A human remains spiritually dead, until the church is complete, and Jesus the Lamb presents a whole restored spirit, soul, and tangible incorruptible body to God. This does not happen at the end of time. It happens at the end of the church age. At the Cross, the Atonement presented a soul together with an incorruptible body able to enter Paradise. But Jesus only presented the 2 parts, until the whole church was complete. Before the Atonement, no human could enter Paradise. The soul was alone in sheol. It is now the end of Adam's 6000 year punishment of death and spiritual separation. The church is almost complete. The time cannot go past 6 Lord's Days, the last 6000 years. God created in 6 days. God will not force Adam's descendants to suffer past 6 days.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Theologians call this event a "fall" but it seems to me more like a "revealing" of sorts. Adam always had sin inside but until he ate from the tree, he didn't know it. What knowledge did the tree reveal? Through the commandment not to eat, Adam and Eve discovered the truth about themselves as moral agents. They came to know themselves as sinners, which before eating of the fruit remained an abstract possibility, became evident and realized afterward in the eating. They became like God only to the degree that they understood moral choice as an experience. In the process, deciding against a commandment of God, the creator, the couple took to themselves the sovereignty of the creator.

 

[Joseph77]

Adam always had sin inside

No.

 

[Davy]

Genesis 2:16-17 16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."


Notice that God DOES NOT tell Adam IF you eat from it you will surely die. God commands Adam not to eat of the fruit and tells him that in the day he eats of it he will surely die.

Notice that God does not tell Adam that he will “die on the day he eats of the fruit” but that in the day he eats of it he will die, or that death will be a certainty (מוּת‎ מוּת or transliterated muth muth, die die). ‎ From the point of the command to Adam’s sin death was in the balance, hanging out just beyond the frame. Once Adam disobeys death will enter the world (at least the world of man).

Genesis 3:17-19 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."


Adam ate of the fruit.

What was the consequences of Adam’s disobedience? 1. The ground was cursed and Adam would have to work to eat of it. 2. Adam would return to the dust from which he was taken (Adam would die and his body would decay).

What change(s) happened to Adam?

Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"—

Adam became like God knowing good and evil.

What did God do because of this change?


Genesis 3:23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.

Adam was sent out of the Garden and back to the ground from which Adam was made (remember, Adam was not created in the Garden but outside of the Garden and then placed in it).

God said to him that in the 'day' he ate of it, he would die, and that came to pass as written. The problem with men's doctrines on that is they can't understand that to God a day is like a thousand years (2 Peter 3:8). And so it was, Adam died before making it to a thousand years old.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No.

Yes. Consider the word of James,
James 1:13-15
13 Let no one say when he is tempted [tested], “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Here James lays out a direct path from lust to sin to death. Was Adam being tested? Yes. Was Adam being enticed? Yes. Was Adam carried away by his desire? Yes. Did his desire lead to sin? Yes. And did his sin ultimately lead to his death? Yes.

In light of this, how can you say "no?"

 

[Joseph77]

"light of this"?
What does any of that have to do with the false statement of Adam having sin within himself before he sinned?

 

[DPMartin]

2 Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

again cool of the day is a weather condition of a day as in rotation of earth and the sun's effect on it. not a view of a day as in creation where there was no sun until the fourth day. in creation it was God who was there and made known to us the order of things made. in the case of A&E's relationship with the Lord God, Adam was there as a witness. and again the condition of, of dust to dust, wasn't declared by God until they ate of the tree first. and again when you die from the world no one can perceive you but you still exist. they die of what Jesus restored the born again to, basically.


Luk 17:20　 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:　

Luk 17:21　 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.　


where is God? isn't He in Heaven? then how can one have the inner dwelling of God if God be in Heaven? Jesus who walked in the flesh said plainly that He was in the Father and the Father is in Him and His Father is in Heaven. and Jesus says God is Spirit and in this case a Holy Spirit of which the born again are born of, the Presence of God.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

again cool of the day is a weather condition of a day as in rotation of earth and the sun's effect on it. not a view of a day as in creation where there was no sun until the fourth day. in creation it was God who was there and made known to us the order of things made. in the case of A&E's relationship with the Lord God, Adam was there as a witness. and again the condition of, of dust to dust, wasn't declared by God until they ate of the tree first. and again when you die from the world no one can perceive you but you still exist. they die of what Jesus restored the born again to, basically.


Luk 17:20　 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:　

Luk 17:21　 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.　


where is God? isn't He in Heaven? then how can one have the inner dwelling of God if God be in Heaven? Jesus who walked in the flesh said plainly that He was in the Father and the Father is in Him and His Father is in Heaven. and Jesus says God is Spirit and in this case a Holy Spirit of which the born again are born of, the Presence of God.

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[CadyandZoe]

"light of this"?
What does any of that have to do with the false statement of Adam having sin within himself before he sinned?

Think about it.

 

[Joseph77]

No.
We are not to dwell on things false.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes. Consider the word of James,
James 1:13-15
13 Let no one say when he is tempted [tested], “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Here James lays out a direct path from lust to sin to death. Was Adam being tested? Yes. Was Adam being enticed? Yes. Was Adam carried away by his desire? Yes. Did his desire lead to sin? Yes. And did his sin ultimately lead to his death? Yes.

In light of this, how can you say "no?"

Sin was the result of Adam's disobedience. Adam's disobedience was not the result of sin. We as descendants of Adam are in Adam's sinful condition. Adam was only cursed with this condition after he disobeyed God. Before Adam disobeyed there was no sin or death period.

 

[Joseph77]

Amen. It is so.
Sin brought death into the world, when before there was no death.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Sin was the result of Adam's disobedience. Adam's disobedience was not the result of sin. We as descendants of Adam are in Adam's sinful condition. Adam was only cursed with this condition after he disobeyed God. Before Adam disobeyed there was no sin or death period.

The fact that Adam sinned, revealed him to be a sinner. To suggest that sin was not in Adam is to say that Adam had no reason or desire or wish to sin; and the conclusion is that God was unjust to punish Adam for something that wasn't his fault.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No.
We are not to dwell on things false.

If you don't think about what I said, how can you understand it?