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Featured The "Fall" in Genesis (what does the text of Scripture say?)

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by John Caldwell, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    John, your taught blinkers are stopping you from seeing the truth.

    Physical death was always present for all of mankind. However, the length of a mans' life was initially around the 900-1000 years duration before it slowly reduced to no more than 120 years duration as shown in the attached chart.

    God said that He would not contend with man for a prolong period of time like around 900-1000 years for man was indeed flesh, and so he shortened the length of mankind's life to no more than 120 years. (Genesis 6:3)

    If God had created mankind as flesh, then death was already a consequence when God created Adam and as such the fall did not introduce physical death into the equation for mankind.

    Shalom
     

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  2. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    No, the natural is first, not the spiritual (1 Cor. 15).
     
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  3. Yan

    Yan Active Member

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    Leviticus 18:21
    "And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD"

    Pass through the fire is the requirement that forced to us (christian) by them (moslem), they called this process as "circumcision". They forced us to be tested by them with the devil to prove that whosoever could "pass through the fire" will be called as prophet, but in fact it was not a test but envy (Luke 11:46; Matthew 23:4; Galatians 6:12-18). They want us to be circumcised because they will measured our will to obey the law (Romans 7:7-8), but they measured us using a weight of temptation from the devil. Because they're worship the gods of Egyptian, so they're worship cat as a god presence of Bastet/Al-lat/Ba'al/Ananel (Romans 1:21-23; 1 Peter 5:8-9). So, do not ever again to
    stigmatize the other person as a false prophet that you will be judged by God to take responsibility for the safety of your neighbor, the stigmatization will make them to be judged by people and the same as commit a killing.
    So, the circumcision was only a formality to measuring our faith with the law, behind those requirements they treat us as a voodoo magical doll, this was also had happended to apostle Paul (2 Corinthians 12:7-10; 1 Timothy 3:7; Acts of the Apostles 19:13-20).
    The spiritual circumcision was meant to forced us to be like them and their ancestor Ishmael (Genesis 17:9-27), that's why Jesus who had cancel the Torah (Ephesians 2:11-22) warned us to not re-apply Torah and circumcision (Galatians 3:8-14).

    In ancient Israel there was two main religion which is Hellenistic Judaism and Torah Judaism, hellenistic people is now acknoledged as Islam & Kabbalah and Torah judaism people was also spread into Christianity, Catholic, Orthodox, Judaism.
    Since 70 a.d the people of Hellenistic were hide in Petra Jordan and some hide in Mecca to their ancestor Qedarites. After that they want to rebuilt the temple with "their own taste risen messiah" called mohammed to conquer the Jerusalem back into their own hands.

     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  4. Devin Wintch

    Devin Wintch Active Member

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    It was commanded to eat herb and fruit as good for meat. Genesis 1:29

    Then after the fall they went to eating burnt offerings and sacrificed animals. Then animal meat was good for repentance. Leviticus 9:3-4

    Then when Jesus came he gave his disciples bread and fruit wine and said it was his body and blood. Matthew 26:26-28

    When I look at these sequences of events, I see something interesting that leads me to the conclusion that killing animals and eating them may have something to do with the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the fall of man.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  5. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    1 Cor 15 is speaking about Adam bringing the second death upon all of mankind. We speak of the second death as being a spiritual death but the reality is that the second death is a complete separation of each of our spirits from God. It is not as such speaking of a spiritual death. That has been a man made construct and it is not in line with God's words on the subject.

    Shalom
     
  6. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    I am happy to be the odd one out. I am in good company when I present my posts that others disagree with particularly with respect to the word.
     
  7. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. The second death is a Christ-centered judgement. It is when Hades and death are cast into the lake of fire.
     
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  8. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    As written, you went out from us, because you were not part of us....
    1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not belong ...
    www . biblehub.com/1_john/2-19.htm
    Verse 19. - They went out from us ἐξ ἡμῶν ἐξῆλθαν; just as the evil spirit went out of the demoniac (ἐξῆλθεν ἐξ αὐτοῦ, Mark 1:26).But they were not of us οὐκ η΅σαν ἐξ ἡμῶν; they had not their origin with us, just as the unbelieving Jews were "not of God" ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ οὐκ ἐστὲ, but of the devil (John 8:23, 44, 47).

    1 JOHN 2:19 KJV "They went out from us, but they were not ...
    www . kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-John-2-19/
    19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

     
  9. Yan

    Yan Active Member

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    If we as a Christ disciples are the rock which built into the foundation of the church (Matthew 16:18) and also Christ himself was the cornerstone who builders rejected (Acts of the Apostles 4:11-13), then the judgement will come upon those are intimidating and judging day and night of all His people (Revelation 12:7-12), and whosoever works with the sea of sinners (Revelation 20:11-15). As we know the sea of sinners where also the devil fish shark teeth Ifrit, and also the accuser are the one whosoever do the psychological warfare to His people. Because of the envy and the love of this world mankind persecute others only to fight money, and that will be the proof that no man is righteous before God; God will choose whosoever pleased him to enters heaven (Ecclesiastes 9).
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  10. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    This has never been something God says concerning Christ disciples today.

    Most who claim to be Christ's. , are frauds or are deceived (is that the same thing?) ...
     
  11. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    John you are welcome to disagree with me, that is your choice. I do not have to live with your choice, but your understanding, in my humble opinion is flawed, it is as simple as that.

    Shalom
     
  12. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I never advocate anyone adopt my understanding. I do not believe that is the value here.

    What we need to do is ask our questions, explain our positions, argue our points - not to change the other but to reexamine our views and better understand each other's interpretation.
     
  13. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, way... too far out.

    The flaming Cherubim in Genesis 3 represent God removing His Adobe off this earth where it once was, as shown in Genesis 2. Those Cherubim are guardians of the Tree of Life in God's Garden, which today is in another dimension of existence.

    The passing through the fire to Molech idea is about pagan idolatry. The house of Judah fell into that form of Baal worship at one time (Jeremiah 19). That worship including sacrificing children in burning fire. So that definitely is NOT... in association with the Cherubim in Genesis 3.


    Tophet was a place in the 'valley of Hinnom' where Baal pagans taught Judah to sacrifice their children in the fire. Again, see Jeremiah 19.

    "Ariel" in Isaiah 29 is about the day of destruction by God's vengeance with His consuming fire. It is not the 'lake of fire' event which is to occur at the end of Christ's future 1,000 years reign per Rev.20. In the New Testament Gospel Books, the word "hell" (KJV) in the Greek has different meanings. One of them is 'geena' from the Hebrew about the valley of Hinnom. Our Lord Jesus used the valley of Hinnom as a symbol for the future lake of fire event. The reason why He uses that as a symbol for the lake of fire is because of how the Baal prophets taught the evil of child sacrifice to Judah, a work which God said never even came to His Mind. Because of that, symbolic Tophet is reserved for the devil and his, God turning that burning upon those who created it.

    Jer 19:5-6
    5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into My mind:

    6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.
    KJV
     
  14. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 10:34 KJV
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.


    Luke 12:49 KJV
    I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
     
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  15. DPMartin

    DPMartin Well-Known Member

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    how do you know that's not true? this isn't semantics the Lord is plain straight forward they ate did they not ? therefore they died.

    and what Life did Adam die of "Adam, which was the son of God"


    Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. 

    you take 12 words out of context and say it means this or that, na, not buying pal. the day they eat they die then they ate therefore they die that day. but again


    Gen 3:19  In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. 

    which was not the case before they ate of the tree.



    and it was a day like we experience now not some theological day of the Lord consept because it was the cool of the day, hence a condition of weather and time of day


    Gen 3:8  And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. 
    Gen 3:9  And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? 
    Gen 3:10  And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. 
    Gen 3:11  And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? 


    so, your full of it.
     
  16. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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  17. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    2 Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
     
  18. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Naked. I posted this a few days ago in another thread...

    First of all, we must understand what the word 'naked' means. Never assume.

    Let's let the Word of God teach us...

    2 Corinthians 5:2-4
    "For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven"

    "If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked"

    "For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life"


    Adam and his Wife were 'naked' because they weren't clothed with a Tabernacle Body yet. That was the point of having the two Trees. Their Tabernacle Body would be determined by their choice of Fruit.

    They chose an Earthly (corrupt) Tabernacle Body to be 'clothed' with.

    Also...

    Be sure and not make the mistake of assuming that the 'Skins' God clothed them with were animals skins...

    Genesis 3:21
    "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them"


    The above verse was the moment Adam and Eve received their Earthly Tabernacle Body. How do we know?

    Again, let the Word of God teach us what the 'skins' were...

    Job 10:11
    "Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews"


    There you go. Adam and Ishshah died and were re-created according to the Law.

    The opposite would be this...

    Hebrews 7:16
    "Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life"


    Adam and Ishshah chose the wrong Mom...

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it funny how the Word of God goes out of its way to teach that there wasn't just one Adam made?

    1 Corinthians 15:45
    "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit"


    [​IMG]
     
  20. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Well-Known Member

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    I know it is not true be a use it is not on the Bible. The Bible not only tells us what God said to Adam but the Bible tells us what happened afterwards.

    Since your myth is not in the Bible we can be pretty sure it is wrong. I do not think this is something God would have just left out.
     
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