The Falling Away from the Faith in These Latter Days

[Christ4Me]

This pertains to the apostate calling of another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, slain in the spirit phenomenon, holy laughter movement, Ernest Angeley's healing Crusades when he announces the Holy Spirit falling on an already saved believer to bring about a miracle as he lays his hand on their forehead as they fall backwards, and any supernatural continual filling of the "spirit".

Here is Paul prophesying about the falling away from the faith was to happen first before the Bridegroom comes and then the great tribulation afterwards.

2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Paul said this iniquity that causes the falling away from the faith in the latter days was happening even in his days.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Then he describes what is happening supernaturally that this iniquity causes this falling away from the faith.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Then he refers to this tradition below as he has taught them as reproof of that lie in exposing that iniquity for what it is; that these wayward believers actually believed the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation by a sign.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

[Christ4Me]

Now before any one panics about 2 Thessalonians 2:12, this damnation is referring to saved believer left behind for not being ready for why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House, that did not depart from iniquity. They shall be damned as vessels of wood & earth in being left behind to die, but resurrected after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings on earth. The prodigal son shall lose his first inheritance, but he is still son.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Paul goes on from 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter about addressing those that have fallen away from the faith in how we are commanded to withdraw from them with the Lord's help, but not to treat them as the enemy, bit admonish them as brothers still because they are saved.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;...

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Wayward believers can still repent by shunning tongues for private use, and pray normally but no longer chase after seducing spirits to receive after a sign when they have been always Spirit-filled since salvation for why they are not a leaky vessel in no longer hungering nor thirsting to be filled.

Matthew 12:9 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

 

[Christ4Me]

Matthew 12:9 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

I am repeating these reference above to apply to the rebuke to this church in Revelation below as that call to repentance is repeated below;

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Verse 24 is applied towards tongues for private use as scripture below testifies of this gibberish nonsense spoken of by those that seek familiar spirits.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Wayward believers can still repent by shunning tongues for private use, and pray normally but no longer chase after seducing spirits to receive after a sign when they have been always Spirit-filled since salvation for why they are not a leaky vessel in no longer hungering nor thirsting to be filled.

 

[Christ4Me]

The parable of the ten virgins also refers to this apostasy in the latter days for how the five that were foolish were out to the market getting oil to be filled whereas the wise had the oil with them for why they were ready as Spirit-filled since salvation. This does not mean the foolish virgins were not saved because they are of that kingdom of heaven when you read the first verse, but they were not ready for the Bridegroom when He had come.

Matthew 25:1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

This pertains to the apostate calling of another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, slain in the spirit phenomenon, holy laughter movement, Ernest Angeley's healing Crusades when he announces the Holy Spirit falling on an already saved believer to bring about a miracle as he lays his hand on their forehead as they fall backwards, and any supernatural continual filling of the "spirit".

Here is Paul prophesying about the falling away from the faith was to happen first before the Bridegroom comes and then the great tribulation afterwards.

2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Paul said this iniquity that causes the falling away from the faith in the latter days was happening even in his days.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Then he describes what is happening supernaturally that this iniquity causes this falling away from the faith.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Then he refers to this tradition below as he has taught them as reproof of that lie in exposing that iniquity for what it is; that these wayward believers actually believed the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation by a sign.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

I've always thought the falling away, was simply those people whose seed (the WORD) was planted in shallow soil or rocky soil. When tough times come, they abandon the little faith that they have - fall away. Their sokl wasn't nourished with the Word properly, nor did tjey have a relatiinship with Christ. And since faith comes by the Word, you just have people half listening on Sunday and never really getting into study during the week, taking it seriously - craving the Word like believers do. These are the ones who are on the fence about Jesus, maybe they go to church and go through the motions but are not born again believers.
That said, it seems like you have this negative critique of spiritual gifts, such as the gift of tongues. My Pastor had the gift of tongues but did not get up there are bark like dog! He was filled with the Spirit and the Spirit spoke through him. People sometimes misuse this gift. It is for personal edification only and unless there is an interpreter of tongues, they should not speak in tongues or pray to others in tongues. I never heard my Pastor in twelve years pray or speak in tongues, just knew that he could.
Assemblies of God, Pentecostal, Four Square churches all believe in the gifts of the Spirit. Frankly, we all have gifts and if your church is growing in any way, that congregation and Pastor is gifted in teaching, prophesy, healing. Tongues is the least of the gifts so you should not be so concerned about people who use them. AND it is a sign of the Holy Spirit, because it is not an earthly language, it is an angelic language.
And then as far as people of other faiths who believe in God, they have no anchor, no Light, no Savior, just a distorted false belief system. Whatever they are doing, however they are praying, it amounts to emptiness. The tough times come and they too fall away from whatever they had. So you would see Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus abandoning their faiths too.

 

[Christ4Me]

Jesus warned against the apostasy here again in Matthew 7:13-27 where the broaden the way in the worship place by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son ( Matthew 7:13-14 ) which leads to focusing on the Holy Spirit at various times in worship. This iniquity was introduced by that ecumenical creed of the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. as gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles for the Catholic Church.

This allows seducing spirits to come in and take that spotlight away from the Son, which is what the spirit of the antichrist does. With their visitations of signs and lying wonders where seemingly miracles are happening, like casting out devils, ( Matthew 7:21-23 ) many are falling in these movements of these spirits Matthew 7:24-27.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

The solution is to narrow the way back to the straight gate by keeping the spotlight & focus on the Son in worship in honoring Him and thereby honoring God the Father in worship.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[Christ4Me]

The solution is to narrow the way back to the straight gate by keeping the spotlight & focus on the Son in worship in honoring Him and thereby honoring God the Father in worship.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

The consequence for not honoring only the Son in worship in order to honor the Father, is being left behind from the Marriage Supper above.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[Christ4Me]

I've always thought the falling away, was simply those people whose seed (the WORD) was planted in shallow soil or rocky soil. When tough times come, they abandon the little faith that they have - fall away. Their soul wasn't nourished with the properly. And since faith comes by the Word, you just have people half listening on Sunday and never really getting into study during the week, taking it seriously - craving the Word like believers do. These are the ones who are on the fence about Jesus, maybe they go to church and go through the motions but are not born again believers.

Keep in mind in regards to that parable of the Sower is that only one out of the four did not receive the seed because the birds ate it up from being received to take root. Only that one is the unbeliever.

The two out of 3 are those who had received the seed and hence salvation but did grow into the word to not be offended like when that false science, the evolution theory, comes along and causes many to be offended by the truths in the Bible like Genesis for why they become former believers, but guess what? He still abides per 2 Timothy 2:13 for why they are still called to depart from iniquity in 2 Timothy 2:18-21 because that foundation and that seal of adoption can never be removed, but only works that deny Him on that foundation will be ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ).

Then you have those who lose sight of Christ & the Father in taking care of them in the world when they worry about the cares of this world in trying to survive. That one is not bearing fruit as His disciples as in not living this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ to bear fruit so that their joy may be full.

So discipleship is not about obtaining salvation because we need Him in us so we can run that race by looking to Him to lay aside every weight & sin daily to be that vessel unto honor in His House as ready to go with the Bridegroom to that Marriage Supper above. Hebrews 12:1-2

That said, it seems like you have this negative critique of spiritual gifts, such as the gift of tongues. My Pastor had the gift of tongues but did not get up there are bark like dog! He was filled with the Spirit and the Spirit spoke through him. People sometimes misuse this gift. It is for personal edification only and unless there is an interpreter of tongues, they should not speak in tongues or pray to others in tongues. I never heard my Pastor in twelve years pray or speak in tongues, just knew that he could.

1 John 4:1-6 is about testing the spirits and even the tongues they bring.

God's real gift of tongues is for speaking unto the people in their foreign tongue 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 and tongues are not to serve as a sign for already saved believers to seek after as if one can seek another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues or by the sign of tongues.

This is why many today are assuming because tongues are not coming with interpretation, that it is for private use when they need to discern with Him that God's gift of tongues cannot be for private use and therefore it is not of Him at all, and neither by that extra phenomenon that many get that tongues for private use by.

One of the benefits claimed by tongues for private use is saying the Holy Spirit is praying for them in tongues but John 16:13 in ALL Bible versions that the Holy Spirit cannot speak from Himself but speak only what He hears. Most modern Bibles in Romans 8:26-27 implies that the Holy Spirit utters groanings without words but the KJV, ASV, and a few others kept the truth in His words with John 16:13 by testifying that not even His groanings can be uttered; hence no sound at all. The "he" is Jesus in Romans 8:27 as He searches our hearts ( Hebrews 4:12-16 ) and therefore "he" is the One that knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's unuttered intercessions to the Father. This is in according to the will of God of the man Christ Jesus being the only Mediator between God and men 1 Timothy 2:5 because Jesus is the One that answers prayers so that the Father be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers John 14:13-14 This is how the Father knows before we ask anything in prayer Matthew 6:7-8

So there are real gifts of the Spirit and they are in use today, but God's gift of tongues can never be for private use. One has to wonder if they even have the real gift because Joyce Meyers had said on how she interprets tongues by getting the gist or feel of what was being said, thus she was winging it. A church had thought they had the real God's gift of tongues and hired a linguist to record the event to see how many different languages was being spoken there; as it turned out, it was all gibberish nonsense. Now before we judge that church harshly as we know of believers faking tongues to fit in, ( even though there is an actual supernatural tongue as found in the world as gibberish nonsense ) but assuming they were faking interpretation, one should with hold that assumption on the basis of how Joyce Meyers was winging the interpretation and so she and the church can be sincere in thinking they are interpreting the tongues when that is not how interpretation is done.

Assemblies of God, Pentecostal, Four Square churches all believe in the gifts of the Spirit. Frankly, we all have gifts and if your church is growing in any way, that congregation and Pastor is gifted in teaching, prophesy, healing. Tongues is the least of the gifts so you should not be so concerned about people who use them.

I am concern when tongues for private use is not the real God's gift of tongues. If they had the real God's gift of tongues and the devil's tongues, I would believe the Holy Spirit would have outed that tongue for private use with God's gift of tongues with interpretation.

The fact that there is such a thing as a Charismatic Catholic Church that use tongues for private use, should alarm believers as to why the Holy Spirit has not corrected them yet to repent of the works of Catholicism? So this spirit is ecumenical n nature as a sign of a false prophet rather than the sign of the Holy Spirit.

AND it is a sign of the Holy Spirit, because it is not an earthly language, it is an angelic language.

I believe Paul was using a hyperbole for why he had written that as a form of an exaggerated example which is hardly realistic. One can discern that with Him by seeing the other exaggerated examples in the following 2 verses.

1 Corinthians 13:1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Has anyone removed mountains yet? Has anyone understand all mysteries ad all knowledge yet? I believe this when He brings us Home perfect in seeing Him face to face.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Any one feel like burning your body after giving your all to the poor? Since Paul has not done this yet, then he is using these hyperboles to stress the importance of having love of Christ in us. And some believers are going through trying times in loving others and they need His help to do it.

And then as far as people of other faiths who believe in God, they have no anchor, no Light, no Savior, just a distorted false belief system. Whatever they are doing, however they are praying, it amounts to emptiness. The tough times come and they too fall away from whatever they had. So you would see Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus abandoning their faiths too.

Paul prayed that while he was speaking in tongues as manifested by the Holy Ghost, that another would interpret. It was his spirit praying and not the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit was manifesting tongues through Paul, relaying the words of Christ through Paul. Paul is praying so that when it is interpreted, he may understand what was being manifested through him so that the tongue would be fruitful to himself as well.

Therefore tongues are not for private use. All the gifts of the Spirit are to benefit the body withal as the body of Christ and they cannot say they have no need of interpretation from another member of the body.

Do note how Paul maintains the testimony we all suppose to share in verse 13 for why God's gift of tongue is not gained by another baptism with the Holy Ghost just as no other gift is gained by another baptism with the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal....

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Wow, im actually glad you left the presbyterian church. We dont need such nonsense in our ranks.
1. You mentioned “Now before any one panics about 2 Thessalonians 2:12, this damnation is referring to saved believer left behind for not being ready.”
This is nonsense.

2. You said “Therefore tongues are not for private use. All the gifts of the Spirit are to benefit the body withal as the body of Christ and they cannot say they have no need of interpretation from another member of the body.”
The apostolic gifts no longer exist. No one speaks in tongues anymore.

3. You mentioned once about telling your church that the teaching elder was wrong. If you had done that, you would have deserved church discipline.

i wonder what other nonsense you’ll bring up next. You havent brought up the WCF yet.

 

[Christ4Me]

Wow, im actually glad you left the presbyterian church. We dont need such nonsense in our ranks.

You do correct others by scripture, do you not? Where is it now?

1. You mentioned “Now before any one panics about 2 Thessalonians 2:12, this damnation is referring to saved believer left behind for not being ready.”
This is nonsense.

You did not read the scriptures to prove I was not rightly dividing the word of truth.

2. You said “Therefore tongues are not for private use. All the gifts of the Spirit are to benefit the body withal as the body of Christ and they cannot say they have no need of interpretation from another member of the body.”
The apostolic gifts no longer exist. No one speaks in tongues anymore.

Do you mean no one speaks in tongues in the WCF Presbyterian Church?? Or no where in any Christian churches?

BTW is this your WCF catechism here? https://www.cityreformed.org/uploads/9/8/8/6/98869954/wcf_in_modern_english.pdf

As for the other apostolic gifts, scripture testifies they are not just given to apostle but every member of the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

As for God's gift of tongues, no, I have not seen it yet in any church I have been to even though some claim to have it but it is just gibberish nonsense whether they are faking it or an actual supernatural tongue but gibberish nonsense as still found in the occult is why I am alarmed.

That does not mean it is not being used elsewhere like outward ministry or where the scripture is not available, but as for other gifts. like prophesying which is edifying one another with the scripture, that has not ceased.

3. You mentioned once about telling your church that the teaching elder was wrong. If you had done that, you would have deserved church discipline.

I wasn't addressing an elder but the whole church being involved with the Promise Keepers program.

I have provided a link in this post earlier and it has this section;

Quoting from link ~~~~"CHAPTER XXII Of Lawful Oaths and Vows 1. A lawful oath is a part of religious worship, in which, on an appropriate occasion, the person swearing solemnly calls God to witness what he asserts or promises, and calls on God to judge him according to the truth or falsehood of what he swears. 2. People ought to swear only by the name of God, and in that, it is to be used with holy fear and reverence. Therefore to swear vainly or rashly by that glorious and dreadful Name, and to swear at all by any other thing, is sinful and to be abhorred. However, because an oath is warranted by the Word of God in matters of weight and significance, in the New Testament as well as the Old, in such matters a lawful oath ought to be taken, when required by a lawful authority. 3. Whoever takes an oath ought to duly consider the weightiness of so solemn an act, and in it to vouch for nothing except what he is fully persuaded is the truth. No one may bind himself by oath to do anything except what is good and just, or what he believes to be so, and what he is able and resolved to perform. Yet it is a sin to refuse to give an oath on anything that is good and just if it is required by a lawful authority. 4. An oath is to be taken in the plain and common sense of the words, without equivocation or mental reservation. It cannot obligate a person to sin, but in anything not sinful, if an oath is taken, it binds the person to perform it, even if to his own hurt. Also, it may not be violated on the basis that it was made to heretics or those who reject the faith. 5. A vow is similar in nature to a promissory oath, and ought to be made with the same religious care and performed with the same faithfulness ~~~ end of quote.

I can see why you are puzzled about my stance against Freemasonry IF this quote from that link is of your WCF.

Scripture says this;

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

We cannot make promises to make ourselves good or to do good when we are to live by faith in Jesus Christ to help us to be good & to do good. If we could make ourselves good and to do good by making promises, then Jesus would not had to have come.

i wonder what other nonsense you’ll bring up next. You havent brought up the WCF yet.

You have to tell me if that is the correct link or not to the WCF.

Another thing, if you spot errors in other churches and correct by scripture then you have to do the same to lead by example in proving everything by Him by the scripture.

As it is Jesus had addressed 7 churches in Revelation whereby 5 needed to repent or else and 2 were exhorted to hold fast or else so no church is exempt from reformation by Him. No one should believe in these latter days that their church can do no wrong.

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

We should not be despising others as if they are unsaved, or not real Christians or not true believers when they are saved for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised him from the dead, even those who believe in His name are saved, but not all will be found abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes for how bad it will be in the latter days when faith is hard to find.

Jesus has warned believers and churches to be ready or else. If the church refuses to confirm all things with him by the scripture then it is up to you to do so with Him, trusting Him as your Good Shepherd to make sure you are abiding in Him.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

You do correct others by scripture, do you not? Where is it now?



You did not read the scriptures to prove I was not rightly dividing the word of truth.



Do you mean no one speaks in tongues in the WCF Presbyterian Church?? Or no where in any Christian churches?

BTW is this your WCF catechism here? https://www.cityreformed.org/uploads/9/8/8/6/98869954/wcf_in_modern_english.pdf

As for the other apostolic gifts, scripture testifies they are not just given to apostle but every member of the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

As for God's gift of tongues, no, I have not seen it yet in any church I have been to even though some claim to have it but it is just gibberish nonsense whether they are faking it or an actual supernatural tongue but gibberish nonsense as still found in the occult is why I am alarmed.

That does not mean it is not being used elsewhere like outward ministry or where the scripture is not available, but as for other gifts. like prophesying which is edifying one another with the scripture, that has not ceased.



I wasn't addressing an elder but the whole church being involved with the Promise Keepers program.

I have provided a link in this post earlier and it has this section;

Quoting from link ~~~~"CHAPTER XXII Of Lawful Oaths and Vows 1. A lawful oath is a part of religious worship, in which, on an appropriate occasion, the person swearing solemnly calls God to witness what he asserts or promises, and calls on God to judge him according to the truth or falsehood of what he swears. 2. People ought to swear only by the name of God, and in that, it is to be used with holy fear and reverence. Therefore to swear vainly or rashly by that glorious and dreadful Name, and to swear at all by any other thing, is sinful and to be abhorred. However, because an oath is warranted by the Word of God in matters of weight and significance, in the New Testament as well as the Old, in such matters a lawful oath ought to be taken, when required by a lawful authority. 3. Whoever takes an oath ought to duly consider the weightiness of so solemn an act, and in it to vouch for nothing except what he is fully persuaded is the truth. No one may bind himself by oath to do anything except what is good and just, or what he believes to be so, and what he is able and resolved to perform. Yet it is a sin to refuse to give an oath on anything that is good and just if it is required by a lawful authority. 4. An oath is to be taken in the plain and common sense of the words, without equivocation or mental reservation. It cannot obligate a person to sin, but in anything not sinful, if an oath is taken, it binds the person to perform it, even if to his own hurt. Also, it may not be violated on the basis that it was made to heretics or those who reject the faith. 5. A vow is similar in nature to a promissory oath, and ought to be made with the same religious care and performed with the same faithfulness ~~~ end of quote.

I can see why you are puzzled about my stance against Freemasonry IF this quote from that link is of your WCF.

Scripture says this;

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

We cannot make promises to make ourselves good or to do good when we are to live by faith in Jesus Christ to help us to be good & to do good. If we could make ourselves good and to do good by making promises, then Jesus would not had to have come.



You have to tell me if that is the correct link or not to the WCF.

Another thing, if you spot errors in other churches and correct by scripture then you have to do the same to lead by example in proving everything by Him by the scripture.

As it is Jesus had addressed 7 churches in Revelation whereby 5 needed to repent or else and 2 were exhorted to hold fast or else so no church is exempt from reformation by Him. No one should believe in these latter days that their church can do no wrong.

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

We should not be despising others as if they are unsaved, or not real Christians or not true believers when they are saved for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised him from the dead, even those who believe in His name are saved, but not all will be found abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes for how bad it will be in the latter days when faith is hard to find.

Jesus has warned believers and churches to be ready or else. If the church refuses to confirm all things with him by the scripture then it is up to you to do so with Him, trusting Him as your Good Shepherd to make sure you are abiding in Him.

that is the 1788 version of the WCF, which had been changed. We follow the 1647 version, i’ll post a link to it. Also that link you provided was from a PCUSA denomination, which are verrrrrrrryyy liberal, ie. bad
Confession of Faith: The Orthodox Presbyterian Church

As far as the apostolic gifts, NO ONE has then any longer. They were for the actual apostles, and they stopped after john died. So no one anywhere right now can speak in tongues. As presbyterians and calvinists, we are cessationists.
As far as oaths, i had to take an oath when joining the military.
I dont despise anyone, but any church that allows people who disagree with what that church believes, to join that church is not a good thing. If you are a presbyterian, then you should believe and confirm that you will hold to the WCF and its catechisms. If you disagree, unless you have no other recourse such as no other church exists around you, then you shouldnt be trying to join that church.

 

[marks]

Only the 4th soil was fruitful.

Much love!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The two out of 3 are those who had received the seed and hence salvation

Many receive the Word but only the one who is saved us the one whi has fertile soil. God prepares our soil (hearts). The Holy Spirit waters the seed. The other other two son't have the Holy Spirit. They are not firm believers. They have'nt real repented and surrendered to and trusted Jesus with their lives. They fall because their roots aren 't deep. Just like the 5 virgins who did'n't have oil (Holy Spirit) for their lamps.

 

[Christ4Me]

that is the 1788 version of the WCF, which had been changed. We follow the 1647 version, i’ll post a link to it. Also that link you provided was from a PCUSA denomination, which are verrrrrrrryyy liberal, ie. bad

I agree, but it goes to show how any church can be seeping in letting in a little leaven to leaven the whole lump.

Thanks for providing the link to your WCF.

Confession of Faith: The Orthodox Presbyterian Church

As far as the apostolic gifts, NO ONE has then any longer. They were for the actual apostles, and they stopped after john died. So no one anywhere right now can speak in tongues. As presbyterians and calvinists, we are cessationists.

As the scripture was shown, the gifts were distributed to every member of the body and not just given to the apostles. Therefore it is an error to say those gifts were only for the apostles. Matthew 12:4-21

As far as oaths, i had to take an oath when joining the military.

So do elected government officials as well as elders and deacons for when they take office but it doesn't make it right.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.... 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Look at the judicial court system where they make the witness swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth but when it comes to questioning, if you do not answer certain questions yes or no, you will be held in contempt of court this the court that made you swear to tell the truth is preventing you from telling the truth and God CANNOT help you.

2 Corinthians 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

I dont despise anyone, but any church that allows people who disagree with what that church believes, to join that church is not a good thing. If you are a presbyterian, then you should believe and confirm that you will hold to the WCF and its catechisms. If you disagree, unless you have no other recourse such as no other church exists around you, then you shouldnt be trying to join that church.

All churches are commanded to follow Jesus by faith in Him to help us abide in Him & His words so He has the right to judge the churches by His words for being ready or not as abiding in Him & His words. Nowadays it is about making followers of a church or a theology and it is not the same thing as following Christ Jesus.