The false gospel of grace

[Enoch111]

I think that theoretically it might be possible to do so for the rest of my life.

So now it becomes "theoretical" for you. You were supposed to tell us that this is your PRESENT REALITY 24/7! That's what you've been trying to suggest in many of your posts.

 

[Episkopos]

Now that I re-read some of these posts...it seems all this is being complicated needlessly. We are both spirit and flesh...we do not ALWAYS walk in the Spirit 24/7...I don't care what one says...we are NOT Jesus! When we walk, live by the Spirit of God, we will NOT sin, period. But, the times we lose the occasional battle WITH the flesh then, we are obviously are NOT walking by the Spirit of God who lives in us to the full.
We will fight the flesh/sin/Satan/the world until we die (physically)...but "He is faithful to complete the work He began in us."
It's all about abiding in Him, IMHO ♥
"Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh". –Gal. 5:17
So, then if you walk in the flesh, you will sin, IMO.

"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. –Rom. 12:2" <--- we are given a new way to think and walk in His Spirit!

I also find that the closer I walk with the Lord the less sin I engage in. When we are occupied with spiritual things...the carnal things fall to the side. But that does not keep us from falling victim to the sin inside us at times since the diligence required to stay a perfect course is outside our capabilities unless we are walking in the full grace of God.

But that's not what the bible is saying is the high calling in Christ. The high calling is not just to be a good Christian who sins less than before.

We are at a time in history where we can't even speak of these things any longer...the holiness of God...and the fear of God. Nevermind the heavenly walk.

Instead we just speak of practical things that we can do in our own power while we try to follow Christ to the best of our ability. And we can learn to do quite well.

This was not enough for Paul. Or for me for that matter. Once you have tasted the power of the life to come...you know there's something missing even when your mind is staid on Christ all day.

There is a way.. a narrow way...an ancient pathway, the way of holiness.

To be in the light as He is in the light...for real.
But to speak these things on this forum is a waste of time obviously.

There is a walk in holiness that is very difficult to enter into but when one walks there ...there is a treasure unspeakable...such is the constant keeping power of God.

 

[Nancy]

Hi @Nancy,

While I find that practically, I do not live according to the Spirit 24/7 myself, I think that theoretically it might be possible to do so for the rest of my life.

If I can walk 100% in the Spirit for the next ten minutes, then I could so so for a day. And if a day, then for a week. And if a week, then for a month. And if a month, then a year is not out of the question. And if a year, a decade is not too far-fetched either. Keep on extending this, and you might even find a consistent walk with the Lord for the rest of eternity, even in this flesh. (of course we will put off these fleshly bodies when the Lord returns. However, I wold point out that everyone who has this hope in the Lord purifies himself even as He is pure. This would indicate a working of that which is hoped for in the hoping, which works itself out in the person's life before what is hoped for comes to pass; so that what is hoped for is executed immediately, because of the hope that is there.

He is doing a work in us, constantly. I must say that, when still sucking my thumb and on the milk of scripture, I was blind to many of my sins. As I grew in Him and ask Him to show me my heart, He sure does it!...the Light of His Holy Spirit removes all the darkness, showing many sins that I hadn't even gave a thought to! So, I do not "feel" guilty anymore when I realize the sin I still have lingering because, I would not had known it unless His Spirit showed me, thus showing what I must lose.
Oh how I wish I had followed His ways decades ago...tsk tsk...bad on me! Stoooopid on me, really, LOL. Unless God keeps me alive for another 100 years, I know I will never be sin-less but, I know that I have and continue to sin less

 

[Nancy]

That's exactly what we find in Scripture. But I am still waiting for a few to make a bold public declaration that they are SINLESSLY PERFECT as we speak.

We will then have to submit their names to the Pope for canonization. Of course, he will want to know how many miracles they have performed!

"for a few to make a bold public declaration that they are SINLESSLY PERFECT as we speak."
Oh, I think there will be no shortage of that, lol.

"We will then have to submit their names to the Pope for canonization. Of course, he will want to know how many miracles they have performed!" Ahahaha...priceless .

 

[Nancy]

I also find that the closer I walk with the Lord the less sin I engage in. When we are occupied with spiritual things...the carnal things fall to the side. But that does not keep us from falling victim to the sin inside us at times since the diligence required to stay a perfect course is outside our capabilities unless we are walking in the full grace of God.

But that's not what the bible is saying is the high calling in Christ. The high calling is not just to be a good Christian who sins less than before.

We are at a time in history where we can't even speak of these things any longer...the holiness of God...and the fear of God. Nevermind the heavenly walk.

Instead we just speak of practical things that we can do in our own power while we try to follow Christ to the best of our ability. And we can learn to do quite well.

This was not enough for Paul. Or for me for that matter. Once you have tasted the power of the life to come...you know there's something missing even when your mind is staid on Christ all day.

There is a way.. a narrow way...an ancient pathway, the way of holiness.

To be in the light as He is in the light...for real.
But to speak these things on this forum is a waste of time obviously.

There is a walk in holiness that is very difficult to enter into but when one walks there ...there is a treasure unspeakable...such is the constant keeping power of God.

"I also find that the closer I walk with the Lord the less sin I engage in." For sure!

"When we are occupied with spiritual things...the carnal things fall to the side." Yes...we learn to hate sin more and more".
"But that does not keep us from falling victim to the sin inside us at times since the diligence required to stay a perfect course is outside our capabilities unless we are walking in the full grace of God."
Can we walk in the full Grace of God?
I would say yes...
2 Corinthians 9:8 "And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work."

His Grace is Sufficient in ALL things...It's finished . We are growing, learning...BECOMING transformed!

"There is a walk in holiness that is very difficult to enter into but when one walks there ...there is a treasure unspeakable...such is the constant keeping power of God."
Very difficult indeed. Especially for those coming into All Truth later in life it can be a bit harder, or, should I say take longer to reach spiritual maturity (but not necessarily!)...until when they see just how awesomely sufficient His Grace really is.
In Him Always!
nancy

 

[CoreIssue]

Lordship vs Free Grace

 

[justbyfaith]

No man can make a sinner a saint. That is entirely God's prerogative through Christ.

If the Lord can do it, then it's possible.

 

[justbyfaith]

So now it becomes "theoretical" for you. You were supposed to tell us that this is your PRESENT REALITY 24/7! That's what you've been trying to suggest in many of your posts.

I was mainly posting scripture that teaches the doctrine of sanctification; if I do not claim to have obtained it, this does not make the holy scriptures that teach the doctrine any less valid.

I don't think that I have been suggesting that I personally have this second benefit myself in my posts; I have merely been proclaiming the reality of it in scripture.

Can a man believe in the possibility of something and yet not have it be a reality in his life yet?

If the scripture declares the reality of something then it is a reality regardless of our experience.

 

[Nancy]

If the Lord can do it, then it's possible.

This is true...whatever is impossible for man...

 

[Episkopos]

If the Lord can do it, then it's possible.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Jesus did say that His followers were to raise the dead.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Big surprise, Calvin reject it.

I will have to get down in the weeds to examine all the details of it. But the basics of faith, believe, repentance, grace and freewill are exactly how one is saved.

What is free grace? What is Free Grace Theology?

You missed the point. This is what you do, you web search, fetch a link, and act like you proved something. You'll have to actually do a little bit deeper study to come up with the big picture rather than typing in a search engine and providing a link you like the sound of or that you think proves your presupposition.

Part of the deceptive nature of Free Grace Theology is that it seemingly checks all the boxes on Gospel salvation as far as its Statement of Faith. Churches also may have a solid Statement of Faith, yet deny its Statement in what they actually teach. For instance, some on here, you included make a Statement of salvation by grace, but deny it when you start teaching. Several have shown you this in your Romans 8 thread, and in your Romans 8 teachings wherein you claim things not found in that particular Scripture. No need to fabricate things, again, and say you've proven it's in there because any honest person knows it to not be the case.

The Statement of Faith of FGT is not the issue; the issue with it is the teaching that a person can go on and live howsoever they desire and still "get into heaven." Charles Stanley and others like Zane Hodges have taught these things. You can web search for Grace Evangelical Society's stance on FGT as there is a video where it teaches what I've claimed.

The bottom line is that all of this is a denial of the transforming power of the Gospel; 2 Corinthians 3:18; 2 Corinthians 4:1-4 &c and is antinomianism. No, I don't agree with gotquestions on this one, the actual teachings of the proponents of Free Grace Theology support the fact of it being at the most antinomianism, and at the least teaches by implication that grace is license, and it is therefore false.

 

[CoreIssue]

I also find that the closer I walk with the Lord the less sin I engage in. When we are occupied with spiritual things...the carnal things fall to the side. But that does not keep us from falling victim to the sin inside us at times since the diligence required to stay a perfect course is outside our capabilities unless we are walking in the full grace of God.

But that's not what the bible is saying is the high calling in Christ. The high calling is not just to be a good Christian who sins less than before.

We are at a time in history where we can't even speak of these things any longer...the holiness of God...and the fear of God. Nevermind the heavenly walk.

Instead we just speak of practical things that we can do in our own power while we try to follow Christ to the best of our ability. And we can learn to do quite well.

This was not enough for Paul. Or for me for that matter. Once you have tasted the power of the life to come...you know there's something missing even when your mind is staid on Christ all day.

There is a way.. a narrow way...an ancient pathway, the way of holiness.

To be in the light as He is in the light...for real.
But to speak these things on this forum is a waste of time obviously.

There is a walk in holiness that is very difficult to enter into but when one walks there ...there is a treasure unspeakable...such is the constant keeping power of God.

 

[CoreIssue]

A waste of time to speak of these things in a forum? What self-righteous arrogance.

Upon salvation we are sanctified. The growth in sanctification is a life long path to walk. Every journey begins with a single step. That step being salvation.

 

[CoreIssue]

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Jesus did say that His followers were to raise the dead.

Raise the dead according to the thinking of the times. But not according to the biblical principle of when the spirit leaves the body, you're gone.

 

[CoreIssue]

You missed the point. This is what you do, you web search, fetch a link, and act like you proved something. You'll have to actually do a little bit deeper study to come up with the big picture rather than typing in a search engine and providing a link you like the sound of or that you think proves your presupposition.

Part of the deceptive nature of Free Grace Theology is that it seemingly checks all the boxes on Gospel salvation as far as its Statement of Faith. Churches also may have a solid Statement of Faith, yet deny its Statement in what they actually teach. For instance, some on here, you included make a Statement of salvation by grace, but deny it when you start teaching. Several have shown you this in your Romans 8 thread, and in your Romans 8 teachings wherein you claim things not found in that particular Scripture. No need to fabricate things, again, and say you've proven it's in there because any honest person knows it to not be the case.

The Statement of Faith of FGT is not the issue; the issue with it is the teaching that a person can go on and live howsoever they desire and still "get into heaven." Charles Stanley and others like Zane Hodges have taught these things. You can web search for Grace Evangelical Society's stance on FGT as there is a video where it teaches what I've claimed.

The bottom line is that all of this is a denial of the transforming power of the Gospel; 2 Corinthians 3:18; 2 Corinthians 4:1-4 &c and is antinomianism. No, I don't agree with gotquestions on this one, the actual teachings of the proponents of Free Grace Theology support the fact of it being at the most antinomianism, and at the least teaches by implication that grace is license, and it is therefore false.

What do you do? You spout your doctrine and then demand others accepted it as gospel.

 

[H. Richard]

Why is it that most do not know what "walking in the spirit" means.

It seems to me that most think it is walking without sinning in the flesh.

What does it really meant to "walk in the spirit?"

Belief, faith, trust, and confidence are all words of spirit since they have no physical substance. What these words say can not be seen with the eyes so they are spiritual in nature.

Let no one deceive you. Walking in the spirit is walking with your faith in Jesus' work on the cross.

1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
NKJV

The children of God have overcome this world by placing their BELIEF, FAITH, TRUST, and CONFIDENCE in the finished work of Jesus (God) on the cross.

 

[justbyfaith]

Let no one deceive you. Walking in the spirit is walking with your faith in Jesus' work on the cross.

Walking with faith in Jesus' work on the Cross is a walk of holiness.

Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)

 

[H. Richard]

Walking with faith in Jesus' work on the Cross is a walk of holiness.

Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)

Sorry but I disagree. No man can can walk without sinning in the flesh and that is what you are saying. You are saying that salvation can only be to those who, by their own choice, can refuse to sin in the flesh and that is not true. If that is your truth then how does it stand up to the need for Jesus to pay for the sins of mankind?

The religious just can get over the fact that God has chosen those that acknowledge their sinfulness to be saved BY THEIR FAITH IN GOD'S WORK ON THE CROSS? It leaves no room for their pride.

1 Cor 1:28-31
28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God — and righteousness and sanctification and redemption —
31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."
NKJV

 

[justbyfaith]

Sorry but I disagree. No man can can walk without sinning in the flesh and that is what you are saying. You are saying that salvation can only be to those who, by their own choice, can refuse to sin in the flesh and that is not true. If that is your truth then how does it stand up to the need for Jesus to pay for the sins of mankind?

The religious just can get over the fact that God has chosen those that acknowledge their sinfulness to be saved BY THEIR FAITH IN GOD'S WORK ON THE CROSS? It leaves no room for their pride.

1 Cor 1:28-31
28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God — and righteousness and sanctification and redemption —
31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."
NKJV

I am not saying that those who fail to walk in the perfection that the Lord has provided for them are not forgiven/saved.

I am saying that entire sanctification is a second benefit.

I would suggest to you that you read the kjv from cover to cover and make your conclusion after having done so.

I think you will find that there are a great many verses that teach that we can walk in freedom and victory.

If anyone is truly born again, and is not walking in freedom and victory, they are not satisfied with their behaviour. Their attitude is, "Wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from this body of death?"

They will not have the lacksadaisical attitude that I see in some who defend their own sinful behaviour, teaching for their own sake that grace is a license for sin.

They will be rending their hearts and not their garments over the matter.

 

[H. Richard]

I am not saying that those who fail to walk in the perfection that the Lord has provided for them are not forgiven/saved.

I am saying that entire sanctification is a second benefit.

I would suggest to you that you read the kjv from cover to cover and make your conclusion after having done so.

So you wish to claim your sanctification as a benefit of your works. May I also suggest that you read the the NKJV yourself.

1 Cor 6:11
11 And such ***were*** some of you. But you ***were*** washed, but you ***were*** sanctified, but you ***were*** justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and ****by the Spirit of our God.***
NKJV

You can overlook the fact that all these WERE (PAST TENSE) if you wish but I will not. You can claim that these things are done by the person but I will not.

I am 86 years old and have been a child of God since I was 8 years old and have read the Bible from cover to cover many times. What I have seen is the constant effort of the Religious to place the Children of God under a false religion that teaches sinless perfection required for salvation. It has sent many to Hell.

I totally reject the idea that when a person reaches out to God to save them from their sinful flesh they must do it by them selves by becoming self-righteous. God has made a way for the un-godly to become sinless in THEIR SPIRIT, Not their flesh. God has replaced those who think they can do good works and become children of God with those who truly understand that God loves them even in their sin. He has shown that love in that He, Himself died for their sins.

It is the Holy Spirit that sanctifies , justifies, and washes the children of God. Man can not do these things.