The false Messiah

[teleiosis]

Have you not read about Lazarus and the rich man per our Lord Jesus in Luke 16?

That's for mortal people. The God will selectively resurrect the dead on the Day of the Lord. Those in Hades suffer until the second Resurrection at the end of the Millennium when all are called up.

So what you cite as a place of separation in the "heavenly abode" is not reflective of the Temple of God in Heaven as seen in Revelation chapters 4 and 5. Furthermore, Satan is not imprisoned now but walks the earth.

I also note that you did not really answer any of the questions posed to you.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Shilohsfoal, if you were to check Scripture for the characteristics of who you claim Romney to be, where he is supposed to come out of, and even more importantly WHEN he is going to show up in the scheme of what takes place, you will see for yourself that you could be more wrong, but you'd really have to work on it.

As a side note, I believe Brack Obama will win re-election in Nov. I believe with my whole heart that it is because we have turned our back so completely on God that He is returning the favor.

I predict that once he does win re-election, Shilosfoal will do like the guys who pretdicted that the Rapture was coming last April...he will quietly fade into the woodwork and we won't hear from him again.




.

The false prophet is the king of the north.
He comes from the north obviously.

Not to be confused with the little horn who would come from the north west into the pleasant land.
That took place in 1948.
It is written that the little horn shall have a host given to it and it is the king ofthe north who gives that host to the little horn.

I will come back to say hi after Romney wins the election.
But I wont be here long.

 

[teleiosis]

The false prophet is the king of the north.

Seeing how the King of the North from Dan 11:45 is exactly like the events happening on the eve of the midpoint abomination in Lk 21:20 - and in the related section of Rev 13:14, the false prophet rising from the earth greets the beast of a man from the beast of a fourth terrifying nation with the talking image of himself just like Paul said in 2Th 2:4 and Jesus said in Mt 24:15 would be in the Temple (Holy Place) -

- I find your simple "this means that and that means this" equation to be utter fantasy and amazingly ridiculous.

 

[veteran]

That's for mortal people. The God will selectively resurrect the dead on the Day of the Lord. Those in Hades suffer until the second Resurrection at the end of the Millennium when all are called up.

That's the way many interpret the idea of a second resurrection in Rev.20, but that's not actually how it is meant. Like Christ said in John 5:28-29, all in the graves will resurrect at His coming, either to the resurrection of life or to the resurrection of damnation. Both are resurrections from the dead, but they are not both the same type of resurrection to the same condition. There will still be some subject to the "second death" after they are raised at Christ's return. The wicked will be raised and go through Christ's thousand years reign too, which is what the Rev.22:15 verse is about with their being outside the gates of the holy city. Our Lord Jesus taught about this concept of one still being spiritually dead with one's soul and spirit condition separate from the flesh, He just did not use the term spiritually dead.

So what you cite as a place of separation in the "heavenly abode" is not reflective of the Temple of God in Heaven as seen in Revelation chapters 4 and 5. Furthermore, Satan is not imprisoned now but walks the earth.

I also note that you did not really answer any of the questions posed to you.

It's not necessary to give a direct answer to your cornered style questions, since your questions lack Biblical depth and do not regard the relevant Scriptures that have been presented so far in this thread. If you desire to slice pieces out of God's Word while disregarding the rest then that's your own works, not The Lord's.

 

[teleiosis]

Many people do not interpret the second Resurrection like you do, and I am among that group.

The second Resurrection, if you actually read Rev 20:11 correctly, comes after the Millennium in Rev 20:7.

In fact there are five times in the Bible that two Resurrections are mentioned in pairs, and the order is always the same:
- The first Resurrection is only for the Righteous.
- The second Resurrection encompasses both Righteous and Wicked.

The question as to whether Satan is currently in the third Heaven of God the Father's presense accusing our Lord lacks Biblical depth - according to you.

It is an important point though; you just want to ignore it.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Seeing how the King of the North from Dan 11:45 is exactly like the events happening on the eve of the midpoint abomination in Lk 21:20 - and in the related section of Rev 13:14, the false prophet rising from the earth greets the beast of a man from the beast of a fourth terrifying nation with the talking image of himself just like Paul said in 2Th 2:4 and Jesus said in Mt 24:15 would be in the Temple (Holy Place) -

- I find your simple "this means that and that means this" equation to be utter fantasy and amazingly ridiculous.

President Romney doesnt send a milllitary into Judea for a few years yet.
If you think its ediculous then you dont have a clue as to whats going on in the world.

 

[Rex]

How can Jesus reign supreme if Satan has a place in Heaven?
Has not Satan pursued the woman Israel to include the First Jewish Revolt of 67-70 A.D.?

Is Satan still falsely accusing Jesus to this day? Zec 3:1
How long is two thousand years to an immortal being? 2Pe 3:8

Great verse teleiosis I'll be adding it to my notes Zec 3:1
Thank You

 

[Axehead]

Shilohsfoal, if you were to check Scripture for the characteristics of who you claim Romney to be, where he is supposed to come out of, and even more importantly WHEN he is going to show up in the scheme of what takes place, you will see for yourself that you could be more wrong, but you'd really have to work on it.

As a side note, I believe Brack Obama will win re-election in Nov. I believe with my whole heart that it is because we have turned our back so completely on God that He is returning the favor.

I predict that once he does win re-election, Shilosfoal will do like the guys who pretdicted that the Rapture was coming last April...he will quietly fade into the woodwork and we won't hear from him again.

Interesting that you should say that, Foreigner. My "gut" feeling is that Obama serves another 4 years, too. I don't want him to and this is not anything the Lord has told me (I don't think).

 

[veteran]

Many people do not interpret the second Resurrection like you do, and I am among that group.

The second Resurrection, if you actually read Rev 20:11 correctly, comes after the Millennium in Rev 20:7.

In fact there are five times in the Bible that two Resurrections are mentioned in pairs, and the order is always the same:
- The first Resurrection is only for the Righteous.
- The second Resurrection encompasses both Righteous and Wicked.

The question as to whether Satan is currently in the third Heaven of God the Father's presense accusing our Lord lacks Biblical depth - according to you.

It is an important point though; you just want to ignore it.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

You're just another one of the Biblically illiterate with mule's blinders on that refuses to see anything but in the most narrow focus. And it's because you'd rather heed men's traditions that keeps those blinders on, and by your obvious desire for fame and money with writing your own book, just like the "hireling" my Lord Jesus warned His servants about in John 10.


The following is for AFTER Christ's second coming...

Zech 14:16-19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
(KJV)

So if the nations of spiritually dead that are left overs from coming upon Jerusalem on the last day of this present world are THERE, then they MUST be here too in Rev.20...


Rev 20:5-9
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
(KJV)

And lo and behold, there they are!!! for that's to occur BEFORE God's great white throne Judmgnent!

 

[Rex]

Hes not going to address your point teleiosis unless he thinks Zec 3-1 and Zec 14:16-19 are related to your talking point.
I think he's just preaching "repeating" his doctrine again.

The question as to whether Satan is currently in the third Heaven of God the Father's presense accusing our Lord lacks Biblical depth - according to you.

It is an important point though; you just want to ignore it.

 

[veteran]

Hes not going to address your point teleiosis unless he thinks Zec 3-1 and Zec 14:16-19 are related to your talking point.
I think he's just preaching "repeating" his doctrine again.

His points are easy to answer, but they are sitll irrelevant to the subject he tried to give them in answer to.

How can Jesus reign supreme if Satan has a place in Heaven?
Has not Satan pursued the woman Israel to include the First Jewish Revolt of 67-70 A.D.?

Is Satan still falsely accusing Jesus to this day? Zec 3:1
How long is two thousand years to an immortal being? 2Pe 3:8

1. How can GOD reign supreme while Satan and his angels that rebelled still exist???

2. Satan's pursuing of the symbolic "woman" of Rev.12 MUST include those who have the Testimony of Christ Jesus (Rev.12:17). Did those Jews in 67-70 A.D. have the Testimony of Christ? Obviously not, since Satan's servants by the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple at that time. Majority of those who believed on Christ Jesus then fled that area.

3. Satan in the heavenly is still falsey accusing Christ's saints on earth today, which is the subject of Rev.12:10.

4. Peter's declaration in 2 Pet.3:8 is how God's timing is different than man's on earth. a day with The LORD is as a thousand years he said.


None of that has anything to do with understanding Satan coming as the 'pseudo-Christ' which Christ warned of in Matt.24, Rev.12:7-17, Rev.13:11, Rev.9, and Rev.11:7, and 2 Thess.2.

That's for mortal people. The God will selectively resurrect the dead on the Day of the Lord. Those in Hades suffer until the second Resurrection at the end of the Millennium when all are called up.

So what you cite as a place of separation in the "heavenly abode" is not reflective of the Temple of God in Heaven as seen in Revelation chapters 4 and 5. Furthermore, Satan is not imprisoned now but walks the earth.

I also note that you did not really answer any of the questions posed to you.

What you're claiming for Rev.4 and 5 is just a tradition you're following. The "new song" there in Rev.5 is in connection with the timing of Rev.14 & 15, NOT A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE!

 

[Rex]

Thank veteran now teleiosis can reply to the question he was pursuing. I'd like to hear his point.

 

[veteran]

Thank veteran now teleiosis can reply to the question he was pursuing. I'd like to hear his point.

Why, so he can keep pushing the falseness of a pre-trib or pre-wrath rapture?

 

[Rex]

There is an opportunity to learn something from everyone. I've learned from a JW by simply listening first. A verse, or something the Sprite with-in says look at that little detail right there. Needless to say I don't believe the greater message but by listening to all they have to say I can then better respond. Simply because someone is a Adventist doesn't mean they are 100% wrong 100% of the time. The same goes for every man or his belief system.

I like you and your stubborn personality kind of remind me of Peter. But I see you sitting at your computer, the wall next to you is a mosaic of end time prophesy every detail carefully marked. In that I don't see you as having a conversation with people about the subject, you simply reference your charts and start typing. Sometimes it's simply better just to listen even if you don't agree. You should try it sometime, it's rather amazing what the Lord can speak to you about when your listening. God Bless you veteran.

 

[teleiosis]

Veteran: You don't have to be insulting.

There are five times the Bible says there are two resurrections: the first is only for the "Living" or Righteous. The second is for both "Living" and "Dead" or Righteous and Wicked.

The second Resurrection happens after the Millennium.

Jn 5:24-25 versus Jn 5:28-29. You quote one but you miss the other.
Dan 12:1 versus Dan 12:2
Mt 24:31 versus Mt 25:31-46
Rev 7:9-17 and 20:4-5 versus Rev 20:11-15.
The parable of the wheat and tare versus the parable of the net in Mt 13.

The point of Zec 3:2 is that when Jesus rose to the third Heaven to meet the Father - as He told Mary in the Garden in Jn 20:17 - He was carrying the sin on His death clothes for all of us. The "men wondered at" are those who captives (of death) who followed Jesus in His train as Ps 68:18 foretold. God the Father rebuked Satan twice. Satan has no more place. Jesus reigns supreme - the accuser has no place before the Lamb - he is missing from the Court of God the Father in His Temple in Heaven when John is called up there and writes down everything he sees.

Rev 12:17 differentiates "Israel" - the woman - (see Gen 37:9-10) from the Church.
Satan has been pursuing Israel for a long time now by our standards. By his standards, it's just been a couple of days...

Satan is not coming as a pseudo-Christ. The anti-Christ is imbued with a demonic spirit, but then so too are the false prophet and the principality of the fourth terrible beast. And there are two kinds of dragons in Revelation: one is a long-lived Kingdom, the other is Satan... just as there are two kinds of beasts: one of a nation and the other being a beast of a man.

Rev 12:10 does not prove Rev 12:8 happened just now or long ago. That's circular logic: saying something is true because it is true. Why would God allow a false accuser to stand and tell lies when God the Father rebuked the devil twice already? Is God powerless?

Rev chapters 4 and 5 are John's witness as Court reporter. He has a writing kit and is writing down all he sees. The point of Rev 5 is to open the "book" which Daniel mentioned in Dan 7:10. Only the Lamb can open the Scroll. This is where the desolations God has decreed have been stored since the time that Gabriel told Daniel - Dan 9:26. The sixth Seal contains the sun/moon/star sign which heralds the Day of the Lord just like Mt 24:29. The result of the gathering in Mt 24:31 are the Great Multitude of Rev 7:9-17.

You want to argue like any eschatology other than your own is heresy. All I have to do is present the Bible.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Teleosis, I agree with most of what you wrote but I do see a couple of things differently.

1.Mt 24:31 versus Mt 25:31-46

I don't believe that Matt. 25:31-46 depicts the end of the millennium resurrection. I believe it occurs after Armageddon and decides which living humans qualify to enter into the millennium to help re-populate the earth. I also believe that Rev. 14:14-20 is a more colorful version of the same event.


2. "Satan has been pursuing Israel for a long time now by our standards. By his standards, it's just been a couple of days..."

I don't see any part of Revelations (from cp. 6 on except for a couple of things in Rev. 12) to have begun yet and I believe the specific event spoken of here won't happen until after the a of d is set up.

 

[teleiosis]

Trekson: Viewing Mt 25:31-46 as part of the Great White Throne Judgment is my take on it; I may be wrong.

As far as entering the Millennium, I can point out OT prophecy in Zechariah, but his visions are not laid out in a long linear narrative so sequencing is assured. However, I think from the desolations and other OT prophecy that people will be rare upon the earth. I do think other nations will have people who enter the Millennium along with the twelve Tribes, but again, I think more than 99% of mankind now isn't going to live to see that day.

In my opinion, I think all four Seals, as Spirits, are already at work in the world. Of course, I have a slightly different take on things than most normal commentaries - LOL.

 

[veteran]

There is an opportunity to learn something from everyone. I've learned from a JW by simply listening first. A verse, or something the Sprite with-in says look at that little detail right there. Needless to say I don't believe the greater message but by listening to all they have to say I can then better respond. Simply because someone is a Adventist doesn't mean they are 100% wrong 100% of the time. The same goes for every man or his belief system.

I like you and your stubborn personality kind of remind me of Peter. But I see you sitting at your computer, the wall next to you is a mosaic of end time prophesy every detail carefully marked. In that I don't see you as having a conversation with people about the subject, you simply reference your charts and start typing. Sometimes it's simply better just to listen even if you don't agree. You should try it sometime, it's rather amazing what the Lord can speak to you about when your listening. God Bless you veteran.

All I can say to that is, God's Word as written is indeed very 'cornered'. Obviously that's not popular with the majority here, as many appear to be more interested in coming up with something 'new' to try to get them out of their immaturity stage they should have grown out of before adulthood, like the philosophers of old Greece who met only to hear of new things.

 

[shilohsfoal]

You have no idea what I know! And I'm not too interested in saying much here. There's a pile of dung here now that I really don't like!

AND...

I've been studying the scriptures longer than you are old!

All that studying does no good at all if you dont know God.
You go ahead and think you know it all though.Thats fine with me.
Luke 10;21
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

 

[tgwprophet]

Well, Obama is still president.... Shilohsfoal, do you do like all the others that troll here? Or will you accept rebuke as correction.
BTW - I did not want Obama to win.