The folly of Preterism

[MatthewG]

Please don't share your opinions here if you have no interest in backing them up. Thanks.

Information, is something to consider. There has been plenty of information given throughout the post.

Scripture teaches that we will all be changed and have spiritual bodies AT THE SAME TIME which will be at the last trumpet when Christ returns. How do you reconcile your view that we each are changed and have spiritual bodies upon death with what Paul wrote here:

1 Corinthians 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

That does not say that to you.

“Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ, through the will of God, and Sosthenes the brother, to the assembly of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all those calling upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place — both theirs and ours: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ!”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

1 Corinthians 1:1-3 Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ, through the will of God, and Sosthenes the brother, to the assembly of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all thos | Young's Literal Translation

Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ, through the will of God, and Sosthenes the brother, to the assembly of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all thos

bible.com

What do you believe about the future? Do you think things will just go on forever the same way it has throughout history so far? Do you think God will never put an end to death and sin?

Death and sin was taken care of be the Son of God, Jesus of Nazareth.

I think that in the future I will end up dying, and be resurrected.

 

[MatthewG]

Sorry! I don't have a clue about what the heck you are talking about?

Really?

It may depend on how you view Yahweh, or or something else.

Yahweh, is love, is spirit, is an all consuming fire. The best description I have ever heard is like a big bright white light, brighter than anything you have ever seen, and this is why the Old Testament prophets always hide their face away, as they would drop dead upon gazing on Yahweh and that is why he came in different forms like a fire in a bush, or a cloud.

I wonder if the lake of fire protrudes from Yahweh, or the Lord God Almighty, or is it both?

 

[Truth7t7]

Never learned about. Fire can purify and cook food. So I don’t see a problem with the Lake of Fire cooking out darkness and allowing what little light that was there to survive, which the soul now knows Christ?

It’s all speculation I’m not dogmatic about what any one here believers about the lake of fire; and for the most part all should be encouraged to think from themselves, but do research but you make up what you believe about God, Jesus, Sin, Death, resurrection , Satan, because this is a decision that every individual must be able to question and seek answers for; some things we simply don’t know there are things that can be known, if one is seeking for God worshiping in spirit and truth, allow him to point you to understanding a fuller understanding and wisdom which a hope and encouragement to each and all.

The Bible is very clear about the Lake Of Fire

Their worm dieth not, the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever, no rest eternally, it's that simple

A place no person would ever want to go, one reason why we are called to share the gospel unto salvation

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

I think that in the future I will end up dying, and be resurrected.

Everyone will die and be resurrected

Question is, will a person's resurrection be to eternal life or eternal damnation

 

[MatthewG]

Everyone will die and be resurrected

Question is, will a person's resurrection be to eternal life or eternal damnation

That is why I believe Jesus. I’m glad he came my friend.

The Bible is very clear about the Lake Of Fire

Their worm dieth not, the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever, no rest eternally, it's that simple

A place no person would ever want to go, one reason why we are called to share the gospel unto salvation

Jesus Is The Lord

The Jews had the messiah right there in their hands and let it slip, still thankful for the Jewish people though I don’t believe they have their linage foreboding to the knowledge they are part of such tribe any more today. Though the heavenly kingdom is the the new Jerusalem which believers do become adopted children of God because of the Gospel of Christ.

@Truth7t7 sorry not sure where my mind and went but the reason it was shared it to tell you, people will go and have their part but I do not believe it is forever as some people as and I believe it for a good purpose righteous way of God helping them somehow, also when it comes to Satan and the false prophet, and beast that are thrown in the fire and death, and hell, are all said to be done away with in revelation that is why I believe in Jesus and his victory; over all things but many people don’t have faith in that.

 

[MatthewG]

It’s like Satan, his demons and the false prophet, the beast and hell and death went up into ashes and to never been seen again; and those who are having a part in that lake of fire are not shown off in such a manner.

God is a good God.

 

[rwb]

Really?

It may depend on how you view Yahweh, or or something else.

Yahweh, is love, is spirit, is an all consuming fire. The best description I have ever heard is like a big bright white light, brighter than anything you have ever seen, and this is why the Old Testament prophets always hide their face away, as they would drop dead upon gazing on Yahweh and that is why he came in different forms like a fire in a bush, or a cloud.

I wonder if the lake of fire protrudes from Yahweh, or the Lord God Almighty, or is it both?

Actually, it's because I view most if not all of your replies to be touchy feely blabbering without reason, and definitely without verification from Scripture.

 

[WPM]

That would be big Devil, and small god. Which interestingly is true in the Bible, where there is the Devil and Satan, and other gods, that are no gods.


This is just copy and pasted subjective philosophy.

Once again you avoid the biblical evidence. You have to! That sums up Premil in a nutshell.

 

[Truth7t7]

It’s like Satan, his demons and the false prophet, the beast and hell and death went up into ashes and to never been seen again; and those who are having a part in that lake of fire are not shown off in such a manner.

A Big Fairy Tale In Denial Of Written Truth, That Has Been Presented To You Several Times

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Information, is something to consider. There has been plenty of information given throughout the post.

If you can't back up your beliefs with scripture, then you should just read and learn from those who can.

That does not say that to you.

What doe this mean? You seem to have a lot of difficulty with communicating in a way that can be understood.

“Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ, through the will of God, and Sosthenes the brother, to the assembly of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all those calling upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place — both theirs and ours: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ!”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

1 Corinthians 1:1-3 Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ, through the will of God, and Sosthenes the brother, to the assembly of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all thos | Young's Literal Translation

Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ, through the will of God, and Sosthenes the brother, to the assembly of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all thos

bible.com

Death and sin was taken care of be the Son of God, Jesus of Nazareth.

But people are still dying and still sinning, right? Do you think that people will continue dying and sinning for eternity?

I think that in the future I will end up dying, and be resurrected.

That isn't what I asked you about. I asked you if you think things will just go on forever the same way it has throughout history so far? And I asked if you think God will never put an end to death and sin?

 

[robert derrick]

Nice try, but we are speaking of the first resurrection of the church, not the first resurrection of a man, Jesus Christ.

I also made this clear, so you simply have no integrity. That's the nature of people who just copy and paste personal ideologies, and then purposely change what others say in response to it. No problem. I've already concluded by this post the worthlessness of dealing with you.

Now you've got it. I stopped bothering with them long ago.

It's sufficient for me to have learned your main error in symbolizing telos, rather than taking it as definitive and literal.

The Millennium of Christ is literal, because it's physical time of expiration is literal, just as the cross of Jesus. Telos is never used symbolically, nor for symbolic things. And so, to change the meaning of the word to symbolize it, does the same for both the Millennium and the cross.

It's the nature of the beast to do so:

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws.

Changing of times, or the meaning of time itself, is changing the natural order of things, including the meaning of words, in order to teach false doctrine and make false prophecy.

Now this is excellent. It's so simple, which makes it perfect. So many times I see how we all get caught up in complicated arguments, and the Lo and Behold, one simple Scripture ends the whole debate. It's like arguing with created christ believers on and on, until I realize the Word was God ends the argument.

It's the same here. By using the single meaning of a word of prophecy for expired, you show the millennial reign must be physically literal. And then tying it to the cross makes it even more real.

What you are showing is something so simple, that it has been staring us in the face all this time: The millennial reign of Christ cannot possibly be His current spiritual reign, because the millennial reign expires. It's not about all the side arguments, but simply the fact that God says it will one day end.

His current spiritual reign and everlasting kingdom cannot ever expire. And by showing how telos can only be used as literal, then expire cannot be symbolized into something eternal, or 'eternally expiring', of some other such nonsense.

Therefore, amils are saying Christ's spiritual everlasting kingdom will expire. They can make a thousand years last however long they want, but they cannot make it last forever, because for prophecy of Scripture to be true, it must one day literally come to an end.

Only a physical reign of Christ on this earth can expire, and even as His physical work on the cross is finished.

Good job.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Millennium of Christ is literal, because it's physical time of expiration is literal, just as the cross of Jesus. Telos is never used symbolically, nor for symbolic things. And so, to change the meaning of the word to symbolize it, does the same for both the Millinium and the cross.

Is it a literal day or a literal thousand years?

It's neither, thousand years is simply explaining that their isn't earthly time in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm

Revelation 20:1-6 is in this eternal spiritual realm, no kingdom on earth exists in the verses referenced, a Millennial Kingdom on this earth is a man made fairy tale

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[WPM]

Nice try, but we are speaking of the first resurrection of the church, not the first resurrection of a man, Jesus Christ.

I also made this clear, so you simply have no integrity. That's the nature of people who just copy and paste personal ideologies, and then purposely change what others say in response to it.


No problem. I've already concluded by this post the worthlessness of dealing with you.

It's sufficient for me to have learned your main error in symbolizing telos, rather than taking it as definitive and literal.

The Millennium of Christ is literal, because it's physical time of expiration is literal, just as the cross of Jesus. Telos is never used symbolically, nor for symbolic things. And so, to change the meaning of the word to symbolize it, does the same for both the Millinium and the cross.

It's the nature of the beast to do so:

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws.

Changing of times, or the meaning of time itself, is changing the natural order of things, including the meaning of words, in order to teach false doctrine and make false prophecy.

How can there be 2 first resurrections that are separated by 2000 years+? That does not add up. It is nonsensical. If there is one that follows the other it is obviously not the first but the 2nd. This shows the absurdity of Premil.

The fact that you mock Amils as being heretics for believing in the Lord's first resurrection shows who the real heretic is.

 

[MatthewG]

If you can't back up your beliefs with scripture, then you should just read and learn from those who can.


What doe this mean? You seem to have a lot of difficulty with communicating in a way that can be understood.


But people are still dying and still sinning, right? Do you think that people will continue dying and sinning for eternity?


That isn't what I asked you about. I asked you if you think things will just go on forever the same way it has throughout history so far? And I asked if you think God will never put an end to death and sin?

Yes Jesus makes a person who Is in spiritual darkness (spiritual death) alive again through his resurrection.


No death won’t stop as far as passing away from here, and sin is learned to become dead so through the spirit of Christ, and the holy spirt of God if one chooses that path in loving God and loving others. The sin of the human race was paid for - and because of this God through Christ reconciled the world unto himself.

It’s all up to your of course.

And if you did not understand, that is not my fault.

 

[MatthewG]

A Big Fairy Tale In Denial Of Written Truth, That Has Been Presented To You Several Times

You know, for me I trust what Jesus done and his victory over all things, most people don’t have faith in that. Very rare.

 

[MatthewG]

Actually, it's because I view most if not all of your replies to be touchy feely blabbering without reason, and definitely without verification from Scripture.

It’s not my fault. Scripture for the most part can be seen in the Bible, and no one has a perfect idea of what heaven is like other than from a worldly understanding; but it’s a spiritual place and God is called an all consuming fire.

Hebrews 12:29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”

Psalm 103:8
God is good because he loves us and wants what's best for us. His goodness is demonstrated through his actions toward us. In fact, we see evidence of God's goodness every day. We see it in the sun rising each morning, in the rain falling from the sky, and in the flowers blooming in our gardens.

John 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

1 john 4

God Is Love​

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.19 We love because he first loved us. 20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot[a] love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Revelation 21:8
But to the cowardly and unbelieving and having become abominable and murderers and the sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their portion is in the lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Revelation 22:15
Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

 

[WPM]

You know, for me I trust what Jesus done and his victory over all things, most people don’t have faith in that. Very rare.

Not true. That is pride talking. You think you are the only one who knows Him when in fact you are the one deluded by heresy.

 

[MatthewG]

Not true. That is pride talking. You think you are the only one who knows Him when in fact you are the one deluded by heresy.

Haha. What a silly remark. It is true I do believe in faith, of what Jesus promised to do and what God promised to do. It’s not that I see myself as better than others; there is no way I am better than anyone in the world being a sinner in need of Christ myself and it is rare you will run across someone who will straight up tell you what they believe to be true but that doesn’t mean they are any better than the next person. It’s rare to find someone who beliefs in the victory of Christ reigning completely true in their lives today in that faith, and regard.

It’s good for people to get to know God and his son, and should be encouraged to do such things as doing those two things is what produces spiritual fruit by growing, learning and knowing about them. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the reading and study of the word.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes Jesus makes a person who Is in spiritual darkness (spiritual death) alive again through his resurrection.


No death won’t stop as far as passing away from here,

How can that be in light of what John wrote here:

Revelation 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

The first heaven and first earth have not passed away and death is still occurring, as well as mourning, crying and pain. But, this says the first heaven and first earth will one day pass away and that "there will be no more death", so you are contradicting what John taught here.

Also, the sun does not have infinite energy and life on earth can't exist without the sun. So, eventually, apart from God's intervention and if time continued on for a very long time, there would be no more life on earth. So, how can you say that death won't ever stop?

Scripture teaches that Jesus will be burning up and renewing the earth, resulting in the new earth, when He returns (2 Peter 3:10-13).

and sin is learned to become dead so through the spirit of Christ, and the holy spirt of God if one chooses that path in loving God and loving others. The sin of the human race was paid for - and because of this God through Christ reconciled the world unto himself.

Why would you think that God would want to allow sin to continue occurring for eternity? You don't think He'd want to put an end to it once and for all at some point?

It’s all up to your of course.

And if you did not understand, that is not my fault.

How can it not be your fault that you are not communicating clearly?

 

[MatthewG]

How can that be in light of what John wrote here:

Revelation 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

The first heaven and first earth have not passed away and death is still occurring, as well as mourning, crying and pain. But, this says the first heaven and first earth will one day pass away and that "there will be no more death", so you are contradicting what John taught here.

Also, the sun does not have infinite energy and life on earth can't exist without the sun. So, eventually, apart from God's intervention and if time continued on for a very long time, there would be no more life on earth. So, how can you say that death won't ever stop?

Scripture teaches that Jesus will be burning up and renewing the earth, resulting in the new earth, when He returns (2 Peter 3:10-13).


Why would you think that God would want to allow sin to continue occurring for eternity? You don't think He'd want to put an end to it once and for all at some point?


How can it not be your fault that you are not communicating clearly?

You never studied this out before?