The GENDER Issue again :)

[ScottA]

@Oceanprayers is right. They still didn't know they were naked after Eve ate, but did once Adam ate. Why? Eve's was ignorantly unintentional against God, but Adam's was willfully against God.

This is a great point, but I would say (as do the scriptures)that Adam simply made the mistake of listening to the woman (meaning, to himself, from whom she was taken).

This is the error of women (self, men and women alike) not being silent in church.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And that somehow gives her a pass?

or “And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. [34] Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.”
Luke 23:33-34

 

[michaelvpardo]

Much of that is true, but it is all the revelation of Jesus Christ.

As for men foreshadowing Christ, Solomon is a big one...and even little known, so was Christ-opher Columbus, brought forth by Santa Maria (St. Mary).

Solomon was rebellious to the Lord, even building shrines for his pagan wives and worshipping the baals. That's why the kingdom was torn from his son Rehoboam. He didn't foreshadow Christ, but may have been a type of the Antichrist (his yearly tribute recieved was 666 talents of gold. )
14 The weight of gold that came to Solomon yearly was six hundred and sixty-six talents of gold, 15 besides that from the traveling merchants, from the income of traders, from all the kings of Arabia, and from the governors of the country. 1 kings 10 :14-15

 

[michaelvpardo]

This is a great point, but I would say (as do the scriptures)that Adam simply made the mistake of listening to the woman (meaning, to himself, from whom she was taken).

This is the error of women (self, men and women alike) not being silent in church.

You keep making the same error in your posts. Eve was made from Adam as a "helpmeet". Eve is not Adam and Adam is not Eve, but together they are defined as man. We are not God and God is not us, but together we are one body in Christ. The promise of God is that you will be like Him (ultimately) as revealed in His Son, renewed in His image, not that you will be Him, that's Buddhist teaching, Taoist teaching, the original lie "you shall be as God."

 

[ScottA]

Where did Jesus use the word "grace" in such a way - the opposite of the true meaning of God's grace.

You are correct, He did not say "grace " at that time, but then laid down His life...for God so loved the world.

 

[reformed1689]

or “And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. [34] Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.”
Luke 23:33-34

I think you missed my point.

 

[amadeus]

How does this have anything to do with what I said?

You are the one that suggested that Paul was not sinless as if someone were taking as their example to follow. Why did you mention him at all?

1) Was anything included in the Bible inspired by God and written by Paul?
2) Was anything he wrote that was included in the Bible not inspired by God?

How do you know the correct answers to my last two questions, if you do?

 

[ScottA]

Solomon was rebellious to the Lord, even building shrines for his pagan wives and worshipping the baals. That's why the kingdom was torn from his son Rehoboam. He didn't foreshadow Christ, but may have been a type of the Antichrist (his yearly tribute recieved was 666 talents of gold. )
14 The weight of gold that came to Solomon yearly was six hundred and sixty-six talents of gold, 15 besides that from the traveling merchants, from the income of traders, from all the kings of Arabia, and from the governors of the country. 1 kings 10 :14-15

Solomon was both...but the word of truth must be rightly divided. What he meant for evil God meant for good. An example would be Solomon having as many as a thousand wives/concubines...which is the spiritual meaning of innumerable things, as a foreshadowing of the Bride.

As for what Solomon did for his wives...has Christ made manifest anything less for us? No, but more.

 

[Cooper]

In the greater eternal context, the point is to only have the Holy Spirit speak, that nothing is ever the teachings of men (or women).

In spiritual translation we can now take it to mean, the Bride should be silent in church.

I haven't heard that before, but it's a nice thought.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Solomon was both...but the word of truth must be rightly divided. What he meant for evil God meant for good. An example would be Solomon having as many as a thousand wives/concubines...which is the spiritual meaning of innumerable, as a foreshadowing of the Bride.

As for what Solomon did for his wives...has Christ made manifest anything less for us? No, but more.

So let me try to understand your statement here. Do you see the rebellion of wives and women as legitimate and that we're destined to have the kingdom torn away from us? Can you explain anything clearly without obfuscation?

 

[Pearl]

Men and women are meant to complement each other; each has unique skills and talents. They are meant to work together in the service of God - both in the church and in the home. Setting gender against gender is an evil thing to do and prevents both from reaching their potential - again that would be in church and at home. It has been an ongoing argument for generations but these days more men are coming to the conclusion that women who are Spirit filled are to be encouraged to play greater roles and even to actually support them.

 

[reformed1689]

You are the one that suggested that Paul was not sinless as if someone were taking as their example to follow. Why did you mention him at all?

1) Was anything included in the Bible inspired by God and written by Paul?
2) Was anything he wrote that was included in the Bible not inspired by God?

How do you know the correct answers to my last two questions, if you do?

All Scripture is inspired. And I did not suggest sinning was an example to follow. I was refuting this ridiculous, unbiblical notion, that Christians are sinless before death. That is not found anywhere in Scripture.

 

[amadeus]

All Scripture is inspired. And I did not suggest sinning was an example to follow. I was refuting this ridiculous, unbiblical notion, that Christians are sinless before death. That is not found anywhere in Scripture.

Really... and does Jesus lie?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

Who is Jesus? And where is he?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

 

[reformed1689]

Really... and does Jesus lie?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

Who is Jesus? And where is he?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

If you say you have no sin, you decieve yourselves and the truth is not in yhou.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Men and women are meant to complement each other; each has unique skills and talents. They are meant to work together in the service of God - both in the church and in the home. Setting gender against gender is an evil thing to do and prevents both from reaching their potential - again that would be in church and at home. It has been an ongoing argument for generations but these days more men are coming to the conclusion that women who are Spirit filled are to be encouraged to play greater roles and even to actually support them.

I agree with you. However, in this thread alone we have "sisters in the Lord" calling brothers chauvinist (apparently knowing nothing about Chauveu), contradicting the plain meaning of scripture by cherry picking verses to justify their attitudes, slandering their brothers in the Lord, and insisting that they don't have to listen to any authority other than Christ.
My X wife suffered the same malady asserting that her relationship with God was her walk, not mine, and that the submission spoken of in scripture was just about sex and not spiritual guidance. The divorce rate in the church is a direct reflection of that spirit of rebellion, self will, and lack of submission to any authority including the word of God.

Have you read all the posts? They're accumulating fast and this us because the bitterness of feminism is spreading sin like wildfire in the church. It can not go unanswered.

I've called out one individual specifically because her sinful responses go from bad to worse, trampling on not just my testimony, but the testimony of the word. I haven't labeled her a child of Satan or a tare, but she is on display as a child of rebellion in the midst of an electronic gathering of the saints.
I called upon another "sister" to give witness to the other's sin or to give witness to her innocence in order to execute church discipline. This other sister calls herself a teacher but is unwilling to even answer yes or no regarding the firsts's obvious transgression of the commandment, side stepping any responsibility to the church.

I've never had a problem with any of your posts. I recieve you as a sister in the Lord, and believe that you've been consistently honest and without duplicity, so am I unrighteous for calling out sin?
Is transgression justified by equality?

This is a small site with a limited viewing, but we're discussing a big problem, one that brings judgment upon the church.

If you haven't read all the posts, I'll give you a shortcut to understanding the hatred and slander directed at me and others. I believe all the scripture, including those passages that limit the participation of women in leadership roles based upon the differences between men and women as we've been created and as directed by the word of God, without the wresting of scripture out of context to justify transgression.
The individual that I've initiated church discipline upon grievously misinterprets scripture and trangresses the commandment openly and her discipline must be as open as her transgression. The alternative is God's discipline and it is far better to submit to righteous authority than to suffer the discipline of God (which can be abrupt and permanent. )

If you've read the offending posts, will you testify and approve the word of God? The goal here is restoration, not condemnation. My former wife is suffering horribly for her transgressions and this was never my desire or will, but you can not approach God in unrepentant sin, nor can you escape discipline if you're a legitimate child.
I ask you or any woman that believes herself faithful, to take a stand in His word and make a righteous judgment based upon a reasoned understanding and biblical wisdom, the word of God applied to circumstance.

 

[ScottA]

You keep making the same error in your posts. Eve was made from Adam as a "helpmeet". Eve is not Adam and Adam is not Eve, but together they are defined as man. We are not God and God is not us, but together we are one body in Christ. The promise of God is that you will be like Him (ultimately) as revealed in His Son, renewed in His image, not that you will be Him, that's Buddhist teaching, Taoist teaching, the original lie "you shall be as God."

"The two shall become one flesh" is quite clear. Why do you have a problem with that?

 

[michaelvpardo]

If you say you have no sin, you decieve yourselves and the truth is not in yhou.

Do you see how one person's bitterness spreads rapidly to bring division? This is the reason for church discipline. I hope that we do our appointed job before He does.

 

[michaelvpardo]

"The two shall become one flesh" is quite clear. Why do you have a problem with that?

Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit. I'm sorry, but none of us will ever be God.

 

[amadeus]

If you say you have no sin, you decieve yourselves and the truth is not in yhou.

All I did was ask questions and quote scripture. You did not answer my questions. If you don't know, say that!

What you did was paraphrased this verse as it that explained everything:

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." I John 1:8

This is for carnal men or even men still following their own heads instead of Jesus or for men quenching the Holy Spirit within themselves.

Consider the preceding verse:

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." I John 1:7

What sin is not washed away? If the Holy Spirit in us is leading, there is no sin to wash away because the Holy Spirit will never lead us to sin, right? So then recall what is written here:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

 

[michaelvpardo]

You are the one that suggested that Paul was not sinless as if someone were taking as their example to follow. Why did you mention him at all?

1) Was anything included in the Bible inspired by God and written by Paul?
2) Was anything he wrote that was included in the Bible not inspired by God?

How do you know the correct answers to my last two questions, if you do?

Hello brother. I know that you want to be the peacemaker and God bless you for that.
Paul shared in the same fallen nature that we are all born subject to. Jesus however, only shared the flesh, not the nature. He was fully man, but without sin. Jesus is the goal as He was for the Apostle as well, but Paul wrote follow me as I follow christ.
Why would he write such a thing?
Because it is impossible for the imperfect to be perfect. Our perfection doesn't exist before the redemption of our bodies, though as believers we partake of the same Spirit and strive for that goal. Jesus is our goal, because He alone is perfect. Paul is our example because he shares our fallen nature and so he can say "follow me as I follow Christ."
Don't let the bitterness of one sister come between you and the brethren. Bitterness spreads very quickly in the church, causing division, church splits, loss of fellowship with each other and with God.
Keep the faith, believe the word, use discernment for identifying sin, and judgment in applying discipline.