The Gift Of The Sabbath - Is It For Us? - NEW AND IMPROVED??

[Brakelite]

Same reason why His disciples were not guilty for profaning the sabbath because Jesus was with them.

It wasn't because Jesus was with them that made them guiltless. It was because the so called "profaning" was in the eyes of Pharisaical legalism and man made addendums to the Sabbath commandment. Not the commandment itself. There is nothing in the commandment that forbids picking fruit or rubbing grain together to eat if you are hungry. God's laws are moral obligations, not arbitrary tyrannical manifestations of authority.

This lack of careful instructions to not kill anyone breaking the sabbath day for Christians to keep the sabbath day is found wanting in the N.T

Israel was a theocracy. That no longer exists, as the caretakers of the kingdom have been replaced. Yet the wages of sin is still death.

The early churches in the N.T. worshipped Jesus Christ on the first day of the week because that is the Lord's day of His resurrection. That is when they did their collection at their church services for the support of the missionaries in the field.

A little more careful study of the NT would reveal that the collection was for the saints in Jerusalem, not for missionary work. The reason the money was set aside on the first day was so that the Sabbath, the day before, wasn't profaned by doing work associated with labor and counting profits and debts.

So Christians were honoring the Lord on Sunday to be distinctive different from the Jews on the sabbath

This I fully agree with. But it wasn't in the beginning. All Christians in the beginning met on the Sabbath as the book of Acts indicates. But the Jews were still at war with Rome. And over the ensuing decades, Rome would regularly raid the synagogues to carry away the recalcitrants. Christians often got caught up in the mix. Added to that was the Jews over time didn't want Christians I'm their meetings, and actually devised a program and set of prayers that blasphemed Christ. If course the Christians couldn't recite those prayers, and would be discovered and thrown out. I'm the end, another day to meet together made logical sense. Yet they still observed the Sabbath in private and in public places away from the synagogues. Sunday only became popular when the Roman Catholic church started mandating the day after the council of Laodicea in the 4th century. But there is historical evidence that churches outside of Roman influence continued to observe the Sabbath, such as the Celtic church in Britain and the church in the east and in Africa.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Some people idolize the sabbath to the point of idolatry, aka Sabbatholatry, which includes denying undeniable scriptures

And that makes you so much more superior than them sabbatholators.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

And here’s a bonus of truth about circumcision:

Gal 5:2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.

So you make it sommer Sabbath-inclusive. Christ will be of no use to you if you happen to believe in the Lord's Sabbath Day. You are a genius!
<<Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.>> The cursed Sabbath, sign between the Lord and those who belong to Him! How unworthy of a Christian like me!

 

[Curtis]

It wasn't because Jesus was with them that made them guiltless. It was because the so called "profaning" was in the eyes of Pharisaical legalism and man made addendums to the Sabbath commandment. Not the commandment itself. There is nothing in the commandment that forbids picking fruit or rubbing grain together to eat if you are hungry. God's laws are moral obligations, not arbitrary tyrannical manifestations of authority.

The law given to Moses calls for the death penalty by stoning, for doing any work, such as gathering sticks, on the sabbath.

And requires death penalty by stoning for adultery, for not honoring your parents, for murder, and many other offenses.

If the sabbath command is still in effect, the penalty for breaking it would still in effect, and sabbath keepers are breaking the law by not killing the sabbath breakers.

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

 

[Brakelite]

The law given to Moses calls for the death penalty by stoning, for doing any work, such as gathering sticks, on the sabbath.

And requires death penalty by stoning for adultery, for not honoring your parents, for murder, and many other offenses.

If the sabbath command is still in effect, the penalty for breaking it would still in effect, and sabbath keepers are breaking the law by not killing the sabbath breakers.

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

So you still stone adulterers then.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Continue from any word from your Confession of Faith with Scripture, and see where it brings you to. It will bring you to the doctrines you hold to. They will either be the doctrines of men, or the doctrines of Christ -- depending on how Scriptural your Confession of faith is or is not.

 

[BarneyFife]

The law given to Moses calls for the death penalty by stoning, for doing any work, such as gathering sticks, on the sabbath.

And requires death penalty by stoning for adultery, for not honoring your parents, for murder, and many other offenses.

If the sabbath command is still in effect, the penalty for breaking it would still in effect, and sabbath keepers are breaking the law by not killing the sabbath breakers.

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

All been covered. All of the desperate application of faulty human logic and rationalization won't suffice to prove the change or annulment of the 4th commandment of God's perpetual royal law.

For instance:

FYI sabbath just means REST. The rest used to be on the 7th day, hence the term 7th day sabbath - but now Jesus is our rest, so he is our sabbath today.

So, I guess if the words "Sabbath" and "rest" are interchangeable, then the Colossians 2 objection goes up in smoke, right, because it's only talking about rest, in general?

Trust me, Brother, the deeper this antinomianist hole is dug, the harder it is to crawl out of it.

Why do that to yourself?

Whereas, the more one practices the defense of the law of God, written with His own finger on tables of stone by rightly dividing the Word, the easier it becomes.

FYI, BTW, the ancient biblical languages were much more nuanced than you are portraying.

 

[BarneyFife]

I agree that it was not God's intention to dissolve sabbath observance altogether. The Catholics foolishly did that in the supposed authority they have to change things. I believe the intention was that we would continue to congregate on the sabbath, just not for reason of covenant or any other legalistic reason, but to worship and praise the Lord.

But isn't this just another way of saying the Sabbath is either optional or of less importance than the other 9 commandments? Is it legalism to have strict personal policies regarding murder, theft, adultery, idolatry, etc.?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The chapter concerns general commandment-keeping, proper fasting, and Sabbath-keeping.

Something's out of place here.

If you turn your foot from breaking the Sabbath, from doing as you please on My holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight, and the LORD’s holy day honorable,
if you honor it by not going your own way or seeking your own pleasure or speaking idle words
Isaiah 58:13
​

What Sabbath required not speaking idle words? He's obviously pointing to keeping the true sabbath rest - the one that counts - the sabbath rest from sin. Just as he has been talking about true fasting - the fasting that counts - fasting from sin.

With that established, we can see how sabbath keeping and circumcision are related. Respectively, they represent the spiritual reality of resting from your labor of sin, and putting off your sins of the flesh. Just as fasting represents the spiritual reality of fasting from sin.

I went looking for a Bible passage that relates the meaning or purpose of circumcision to that of the Sabbath or of rest, in general, and I couldn't find a single one. Perhaps you'll have better luck.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But isn't this just another way of saying the Sabbath is either optional or of less importance than the other 9 commandments?

Definitely!

You haven't entered into God's rest until you've done the other nine, and all the other similar commands in the law of Moses.

 

[Christ4Me]

El wrongo.

Romans 14 says God doesn’t care which days are honored by a believer, so stop judging that.

Rom 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

God says to stop judging others on the days the keep, the reason being there’s no command to keep any day in the two love commands that supersede the Decalogue.

As to Colossians 2:16-17

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH days:

Col 2:17 Which are a SHADOW of things to come; but the BODY isof Christ.


The word sabbath above, is H4521 in Strongs, and it means ALL the sabbaths, especially the WEEKLY sabbath:


G4521 (Strong)

σάββατον

sabbaton

sab'-bat-on

Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath(that is, Shabbath), or day of WEEKLY repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - SABBATH (DAY), week.

Total KJV occurrences: 68

All the types of the sabbath are shadows of Jesus, who is the substance that casts the shadow, especially the weekly sabbath..

So let no one judge us, says the passage, over the sabbath days, because they are but fore-shadows of the rest we have in Jesus now, no longer in a ceremonial shadow, but in Him.

That’s just too clear to obfuscate.

@BarnyFife @Backlit @Cassandra @1stCenturyLady

How can Jewish believers in Jesus Christ be known apart from the Jews that they are no longer under the Old Covenant but the New, if Jewish Christians still keeps the sabbath?

Isn't part of keeping the sabbath day to the Jews is executing those among them for breaking the sabbath?

Isn't part of keeping the sabbath day mean not having any one else work for you like going out to eat on the sabbath?

Isn't part of keeping the sabbath is having food already cooked in the house & prepared the day before to eat so that no one is cooking on the sabbath?

Are Christians really keeping the sabbath perfectly & holy as the Jews are supposed to?

So why call themselves Sabbath Keepers? To separate themselves from Christians that are not?

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?.........

Scripture says it is okay for Christians to honor the Lord any day, including the sabbath day, but it is not okay to be known as keeping the sabbath day holy, hence "Sabbath Day Keepers" because that would be testifying of ourselves in seeking our own glory as it separates us from the body of Christ & judges Christians that do not keep the sabbath "holy".

There is no way Christian "Sabbath Day Keepers" are keeping the sabbath day "holy" like the Jews are supposed to do.

But this is why Jesus came.

Out of the 7 churches in Revelations, the 5 that were bad were not chastened for not keeping the sabbath.

Out of the 7 churches in Revelations, the 2 that were good were not exhorted to continue to keep the sabbath day.

In all of the 7 churches, none was commended for keeping the sabbath day, and yet in this world today, there are a lot of churches not keeping the sabbath day but worshiping the Lord on Sunday.

If we believe that the Bridegroom returns is imminent for why we are to be ready & found abiding in Him & His words as His disciples ( John 15:1-8 ), how can the Lord overlook this offense unless He is able to make them stand regardless of profaning the sabbath?

 

[Christ4Me]

It wasn't because Jesus was with them that made them guiltless. It was because the so called "profaning" was in the eyes of Pharisaical legalism and man made addendums to the Sabbath commandment.

@BarnyFife @Cassandra @1stCenturyLady

Jesus gave 2 examples in the O.T. on how those saints in the O.T. had actually profaned the sabbath but were guiltless because they were in the Temple.

Then Jesus said One greater than the Temple was here as I believe He was testifying to the Jews why His disciples were guiltless because He was with them since He, as God, is greater than the Temple.

Now if you disagree, the you have to explain why He even bothered to cite those 2 examples of how the saints DID profaned the sabbath but were guiltless for being in the Temple.

Then you have to explain why He said One greater than the Temple was here unless it was to defend His disciples against those Jews.

Otherwise, you are glossing over why Jesus said that in defending His disciples against the Jews.

Indeed, if the charge was false, all He had to say was, "No, they are not."

If Jews are not allowed to work by gathering sticks or food ( manna ) on the sabbath, and were expected to provide for their meals the day before, can you see why the Jews were charging His disciples for picking ears of corn on the sabbath day to eat as profaning the sabbath?

 

[Christ4Me]

So you make it sommer Sabbath-inclusive. Christ will be of no use to you if you happen to believe in the Lord's Sabbath Day. You are a genius!
<<Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.>> The cursed Sabbath, sign between the Lord and those who belong to Him! How unworthy of a Christian like me!

How can Jewish believers in Jesus Christ be known apart from the Jews that they are no longer under the Old Covenant but the New, if Jewish Christians still keeps the sabbath?

Isn't part of keeping the sabbath day to the Jews is executing those among them for breaking the sabbath?

Isn't part of keeping the sabbath day mean not having any one else work for you like going out to eat on the sabbath?

Isn't part of keeping the sabbath is having food already cooked in the house & prepared the day before to eat so that no one is cooking on the sabbath?

Are Christians really keeping the sabbath perfectly & holy as the Jews are supposed to?

So why call themselves Sabbath Keepers? To separate themselves from Christians that are not?

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?.........

Scripture says it is okay for Christians to honor the Lord any day, including the sabbath day, but it is not okay to be known as keeping the sabbath day holy, hence "Sabbath Day Keepers" because that would be testifying of ourselves in seeking our own glory as it separates us from the body of Christ & judges Christians that do not keep the sabbath "holy".

There is no way Christian "Sabbath Day Keepers" are keeping the sabbath day "holy" like the Jews are supposed to do.

But this is why Jesus came.

1 Corinthians 3: 21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Out of the 7 churches in Revelations, the 5 that were bad were not chastened for not keeping the sabbath.

Out of the 7 churches in Revelations, the 2 that were good were not exhorted to continue to keep the sabbath day.

In all of the 7 churches, none was commended for keeping the sabbath day, and yet in this world today, there are a lot of churches not keeping the sabbath day but worshiping the Lord on Sunday.

If we believe that the Bridegroom returns is imminent for why we are to be ready & found abiding in Him & His words as His disciples ( John 15:1-8 ), how can the Lord overlook this offense unless He is able to make them stand regardless of profaning the sabbath?

 

[Christ4Me]

But isn't this just another way of saying the Sabbath is either optional or of less importance than the other 9 commandments? Is it legalism to have strict personal policies regarding murder, theft, adultery, idolatry, etc.?

How can Jewish believers in Jesus Christ be known apart from the Jews that they are no longer under the Old Covenant but the New, if Jewish Christians still keeps the sabbath?

Isn't part of keeping the sabbath day to the Jews is executing those among them for breaking the sabbath?

Isn't part of keeping the sabbath day mean not having any one else work for you like going out to eat on the sabbath?

Isn't part of keeping the sabbath is having food already cooked in the house & prepared the day before to eat so that no one is cooking on the sabbath?

Are Christians really keeping the sabbath perfectly & holy as the Jews are supposed to?

So why call themselves Sabbath Keepers? To separate themselves from Christians that are not?

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?.........

Scripture says it is okay for Christians to honor the Lord any day, including the sabbath day, but it is not okay to be known as keeping the sabbath day holy, hence "Sabbath Day Keepers" because that would be testifying of ourselves in seeking our own glory as it separates us from the body of Christ & judges Christians that do not keep the sabbath "holy".

There is no way Christian "Sabbath Day Keepers" are keeping the sabbath day "holy" like the Jews are supposed to do.

But this is why Jesus came.

1 Corinthians 3: 21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Out of the 7 churches in Revelations, the 5 that were bad were not chastened for not keeping the sabbath.

Out of the 7 churches in Revelations, the 2 that were good were not exhorted to continue to keep the sabbath day.

In all of the 7 churches, none was commended for keeping the sabbath day, and yet in this world today, there are a lot of churches not keeping the sabbath day but worshiping the Lord on Sunday.

If we believe that the Bridegroom returns is imminent for why we are to be ready & found abiding in Him & His words as His disciples ( John 15:1-8 ), how can the Lord overlook this offense unless He is able to make them stand regardless of profaning the sabbath?

 

[Curtis]

There is no way Christian "Sabbath Day Keepers" are keeping the sabbath day "holy" like the Jews are supposed to do.

But this is why Jesus came.

Out of the 7 churches in Revelations, the 5 that were bad were not chastened for not keeping the sabbath.

Out of the 7 churches in Revelations, the 2 that were good were not exhorted to continue to keep the sabbath day.

In all of the 7 churches, none was commended for keeping the sabbath day, and yet in this world today, there are a lot of churches not keeping the sabbath day but worshiping the Lord on Sunday.

Excellent points!

 

[BarneyFife]

[

What Sabbath required not speaking idle words?

Possibly the one He refers to as His "holy day?" He said it--not me.

He's obviously pointing to keeping the true sabbath rest - the one that counts - the sabbath rest from sin. Just as he has been talking about true fasting - the fasting that counts - fasting from sin.

With that established

...unless it's not established...
(I try to avoid using words like "obviously.")

we can see how sabbath keeping and circumcision are related

...except that we can't, really.

Respectively, they represent the spiritual reality of resting from your labor of sin, and putting off your sin. Just as fasting represents the spiritual reality of fasting from sin.

I don't see anything similar at all between circumcision and rest. The first thing I think of when reading or hearing about circumcision is PAIN--not rest. The Sabbath is, by definition within itself, about rest from work--not sin. The OT nowhere says "Sabbath your hearts," as it does with circumcision. And, if they are related, it sure doesn't say so in Isaiah 58.

 

[BarneyFife]

How can Jewish believers in Jesus Christ be known apart from the Jews that they are no longer under the Old Covenant but the New, if Jewish Christians still keeps the sabbath?

Haven't we been over this?

Isn't part of keeping the sabbath day to the Jews is executing those among them for breaking the sabbath?

And this?

Isn't part of keeping the sabbath day mean not having any one else work for you like going out to eat on the sabbath?

Definitely!

Isn't part of keeping the sabbath is having food already cooked in the house & prepared the day before to eat so that no one is cooking on the sabbath?

It sure sounds like a good idea, doesn't it?

Are Christians really keeping the sabbath perfectly & holy as the Jews are supposed to?

As they did under the theocracy? No.

So why call themselves Sabbath Keepers? To separate themselves from Christians that are not?

No, but it does tend to alienate an awful lot of folks. Christ conscientiously alienated so many religious people that they eventually had Him killed. Wouldn't it be awful if many conscientious believers in Christ were sentenced to death today?

Scripture says it is okay for Christians to honor the Lord any day, including the sabbath day, but it is not okay to be known as keeping the sabbath day holy, hence "Sabbath Day Keepers" because that would be testifying of ourselves in seeking our own glory as it separates us from the body of Christ & judges Christians that do not keep the sabbath "holy".

Nope. Just reminding people about the one commandment of God that begins with the word "Remember." Is that okay or is that judgment/condemnation?

Out of the 7 churches in Revelations, the 5 that were bad were not chastened for not keeping the sabbath.

Out of the 7 churches in Revelations, the 2 that were good were not exhorted to continue to keep the sabbath day.

In all of the 7 churches, none was commended for keeping the sabbath day, and yet in this world today, there are a lot of churches not keeping the sabbath day but worshiping the Lord on Sunday.

All arguments from silence. Why would He have to rebuke or exhort if they were already keeping the Sabbath?

They most likely were.

If we believe that the Bridegroom returns is imminent for why we are to be ready & found abiding in Him & His words as His disciples ( John 15:1-8 ), how can the Lord overlook this offense unless He is able to make them stand regardless of profaning the sabbath?

Profaning the Sabbath from ignorance can be forgiven. Conviction is between the Holy Spirit and the individual. We're just seed sowers.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Sabbath is, by definition within itself, about rest from work--not sin.

Yes, rest from work. YOUR work. Your work of sin. The sabbath is the designated 'day' in which the slave rests from his taskmaster (Deuteronomy 5:14-15). When a person gets saved they enter God's established day when they rest from their slavery to sin and their service to the taskmaster of sin. To not do so is to be cutoff from the covenant. To do so is to show that you are in covenant with God. That's why it's called one of the sign commands. Your rest from the slavery of your service to sin is the sign that you are in covenant with God. Just as circumcision was a sign command that showed you were in covenant with God, illustrating how the person who is circumcised in heart shows he is in covenant with God.

I don't see anything similar at all between circumcision and rest.

I showed you the similarity. Circumcision, fasting, and sabbath rest all illustrate the putting off and away of sin.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

There's only one difference and change between the Old Testament Sabbath Day and the New Testament Sabbath Day - the one and only difference you, all of you TOGETHER WITH THE JEWS, DO NOT ACCEPT, BUT REJECT WITH UTTER DISGUST -- CHRIST'S RESURRECTION ON THE SEVENTH DAY GOD THUS CONCERNING SPAKE AND WHEREFORE FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD, GOD'S RESTING THE SABBATH DAY REMAINS TO BE REMEMBERED -- remains to be remembered like Israel's coming up out of the Red Sea grave, was to be remembered, to keep the Sabbath by.