The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism

[Bob Estey]

Confession is the act of the recognition of sin, and choosing to turn from it and experience the forgiveness of God. We need to develop a regular practice of asking the Holy Spirit to search our hearts and reveal any sin in our lives
Yes?
J.

I can't argue with that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have made a lot of uncalled for assumptions on my behalf, [that means...sinning]

I highly doubt I did. But if that is so, I would like to reconcile the situation if I did make false assumptions about you.
Please elaborate on what these false assumptions I made about you.

You are in no position to give me an Imperative what to use, and what not to use re secondary sources brother.

I can because the Bible condemns them.

The one who wants to get personal is you

Ah, now that is a false claim. I have not in any way sought to ask you personally about your walk with God.
I am merely condemning the false teaching with the Bible. It's also not personal to judge your open approach of quoting men and or worldly wisdom of others (rather than the Bible alone).

As I have said before...if you are "perfect" in word, thought and deed, then well done, you don't need to stand before the Judge since you are a "little god" with no accountability, no need for striving, no more need for growth, no need for sanctification, yes?

It's not about me (whether I am perfectly obeying in all things or not). That is not how we build our faith by looking to others (of which you apparently like to do by quoting others) when you should only be quoting the Bible.

You want to ekpeiradzo me?

Please speak in English.

Who started this nonsense re "sinless perfection?"

Wesley and Finney, yes?

No. It's God. It's called reading and believing your Bible.
Anyways, I don't have a lot of time here to reply to everything you wrote.
Lord willing I will try to reply to what you wrote when I do have more time.

 

[MatthewG]

And what is faith, my friend?

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Heb 11:11

Yes, as Christians we never seen Jesus Christ raise from the dead, but we believe it.

Paul talks about how people should be baptized in Christ death, in which we are raised to new life, and he talks about mortifying the flesh and to live by the spirit.


Totally a self - choice - between a person and God - which is their own individual sanctification by and through the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8

New International Version

​

Life Through the Spirit​

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the fleshcannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d]because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you.
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spiritthat we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

 

[Johann]

what might also be contemplated is the thing about a sin for me might not be a sin for you
wish i could stay for it!

Ain't that the truth!
Well, what about hamartia of omission, intentional, unintentional?


Jer 6:14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.
Jer 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

Pro 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.

We are to correctly cutting straight the D'var of YHVH...
J.

 

[Johann]

I am merely condemning the false teaching with the Bible. It's also not personal to judge your open approach of quoting men and or worldly wisdom of others (rather than the Bible).

And I condemn your false teaching re sinless perfection. Period.
In fact, you are calling Paul a liar, and John.

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

You want me to repeat it in Hebrew, Greek?

You will be judged, O sinless one! There is no escape.
J.

 

[Johann]

It's not about me (whether I am perfectly obeying in all things or not). That is not how we build our faith by looking to others (of which you apparently like to do by quoting others) when you should be only quoting the Bible.

I'm beginning to notice a pattern with you, come to think about it, you have hardly, or selectively, answered my questions.

I am holding myself accountable with a brother for over 40 years, the Lord be the Judge between me and you.

αγαπητοι μη παντι πνευματι πιστευετε αλλα δοκιμαζετε τα πνευματα ει εκ του θεου εστιν οτι πολλοι ψευδοπροφηται εξεληλυθασιν εις τον κοσμον

You are very audacious in attempting what I should, and should not use, and here you are sinning again, by calling me a liar for not quoting scriptures!

Who are you to dictate to me what I should, and should not use? Are you my tutor?

J.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And I condemn your false teaching re sinless perfection. Period.

Then you condemn God and the Bible because that is what He teaches in His Word.

In fact, you are calling Paul a liar, and John.

Not at all because Paul taught about how we need to be perfect.

Paul says, “Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” (Colossians 4:12).

Paul says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

John said by revelation,
“Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.” (Revelation 3:2).”

This church was said to have a name that they were alive but yet they were said to be dead (i.e. dead spiritually). What was part of the problem? The Lord said that He did not find their works perfect before God. This claims that even your works must be perfect. If not, then any believer’s fate will be the same as this other church.

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

The Bible also talks about reconciling with your brother. But it does not seem like you want to do that, though.

You want me to repeat it in Hebrew, Greek?

No. I want you to speak in English.

You will be judged, O sinless one! There is no escape.
J.

Why would you want me to be judged? Do you not wish or desire that all should repent and change and not be judged? Did not Jesus say we are to even love our enemies? So I am again puzzled by your response here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm beginning to notice a pattern with you, come to think about it, you have hardly, or selectively, answered my questions.

I am holding myself accountable with a brother for over 40 years, the Lord be the Judge between me and you.

αγαπητοι μη παντι πνευματι πιστευετε αλλα δοκιμαζετε τα πνευματα ει εκ του θεου εστιν οτι πολλοι ψευδοπροφηται εξεληλυθασιν εις τον κοσμον

You are very audacious in attempting what I should, and should not use, and here you are sinning again, by calling me a liar for not quoting scriptures!

Who are you to dictate to me what I should, and should not use? Are you my tutor?

J.

No. I did not say you were not quoting the Scriptures. My problem is that you are quoting other men and that you look to commentaries, and lexicons as if they hold some kind of special insight when that is not always the case. My desire is that you quote the Bible alone and look to the Bible alone and ask God for the understanding. My desire for you is to just read and believe all of what the Bible says even when you may not like what it says (even when it talks about how we need to be perfect). Why? Because Jesus said that the Pharisees undid the Word of God by their traditions. The same is happening today when we look to scholars. Granted, I am not saying you cannot look to scholars or use lexicons, but they should be a last resort in my humble opinion. The Word of God does not look favorably upon worldly wisdom of men that seeks to make God’s Word say something different than what it plainly means.

 

[Johann]

Why would you want me to be judged? Do you not wish or desire that all should repent and change and not be judged? Did not Jesus say we are to even love our enemies? So I am again puzzled by your response here.

Puzzled?

Will Christians Be Judged?


by Rick Phillips October 15, 2000

Tonight's question for the Question Box is, "Will Christians Be Judged?" The Bible verse that prompts this question is 2 Corinthians 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

The answer, very briefly, is, "Yes, Christians will be judged." That is exactly what the Apostle Paul is saying in that verse. He had been talking, in chapter 4, about the struggles involved in Christian ministry, which he likened to an on-going death. Then in chapter 5, Paul expresses his joy at the knowledge that death is followed by heavenly life. Backing up to verse 9, he writes, "So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ." The answer, therefore, is "Yes, Christians will be judged according to our works, as will everybody else."

There are, I am sure, two questions lurking behind that one question. The first question has to do with the possibility of condemnation in that judgment. "Might Christians be condemned in that judgment to come?" Here, we have an opportunity to employ the vital principle of Bible interpretation, that a difficult verse is interpreted according to others that bear on the subject. For instance, in this case we turn to Romans 8:1, which says, "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." On the basis of that one verse alone – and of course there are myriad others like it – we can conclude that while believers will be judged after death we will not be condemned and consigned to hell. As Jesus tells us in John 6:40, "Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." That is a clear statement of justification at the end for all who look to Christ in faith.

The next question is this: "If salvation is by grace alone, apart from works, then how can believers be rewarded in heaven for our works?" First we have to observe that the New Testament definitely states that we will be rewarded for our good works. When we say that men and women are unable to please God by their works, we are talking about unregenerate sinners trying to be justified by works. That cannot be done. But it does not follow that regenerate Christians cannot please God, cannot do genuinely good works by means of an active faith in Christ. While the unsaved man cannot please God, the saved man can, by faith in Christ and through the power of the Holy Spirit, although our works in this life are never perfect. Right after assuring us that salvation is not by works in Eph. 2, Paul says this, "We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do" (v. 10).

Remarkably, the Bible insists that we will be rewarded for good works we do, even though we know they are God's own work in our lives. A clear example is found in the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus says, "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal" (Mt. 6:19-20). In other words, the saying, "You can't take it with you," simply isn't true when it comes to Christians. Indeed, we send such treasures ahead of ourselves in the form of good works. One of my own favorite verses comes from the Old Testament and makes a similar point: "Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever" (Dan. 12:3).

How can this be? How can we get rewards for what is God's work of grace in us? The answer is God's grace in Christ. It is in Christ that our works are received by God with favor and rewarded by His grace. Here, the Westminster Confession puts it well, remarking that just as believers are accepted in Christ, so also are the believer's works accepted in Christ. God "looking upon them in His Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections" (XVI. 6).

An excellent example of this is found in the Eleventh chapter of Hebrews. God there presents the heroes of the faith and you may notice that none of their blemishes and sins that are obvious in the Old Testament are revealed in this chapter. Between the Old Testament record and the New Testament recounting is the shed blood of Jesus, which washes all our sins away and leaves only that which is pleasing to God. Those He is delighted as a Father to reward in love. Those rewards, no doubt, will be spiritual, consisting of joy and love and other eternal blessings.

None of this makes sense to us, I admit, until we remember that God is love. It is in His nature to give, the way a Father does to a child. He gives us the strength to act, He guides us with His very hand, He puts His Spirit within to give us new motivations, and when all that is said and done, He will cry with joy, "Well done, my child! Well done!" He is the God of love.

"Therefore," Paul says, "we make it our goal to please Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ." Yes, it is this future judgment that should motivate us. It is knowing that the condemnation we have deserved will not be inflicted on us that gives us gratitude to please Him; and it also is the anticipation of "solid joys and lasting pleasures" that encourages us in hardship to serve Him, looking forward to eternal rewards in heaven. The effect is to make our present actions purposeful. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians, our work will be shown for what it is, either burned up as simple chaff while we are saved, or refined to shine forever and ever, like the stars in the heaven, to the glory of God and to our own eternal delight.

Still puzzled?
J.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Sinless Perfectionism is a doctrine like that

You have put together a good study. I have had conflicts with those who think of "total sinless perfectionisn", which we will not achieve until we go to heaven and rid ourselves of the flesh. Jesus is sinless perfection and we are in Christ.
However, I believe we all have moments of perfection. These moments are prepared by God and He works through us to accomplish His will. In these moments, we are being perfect as our Father in heaven. Why else would He order us to be perfect - if we could not.
It could be just helping a person in need. Soemthing happened and they prayed to God for help and you are there. God tells you go help that person. You did and it was perfect. Maybe the same day you were walking down the street and a car drove over a puddle and splashed your new Sunday suit. Immediately you cussed at him. Well, that doesn't mean you didn't have a perfect moment earlier in the day, it just means you aren't perfect all the time.
He factors in our blunders with His plan, with His grace and sobin the midst of an uneventful day and/or darkness, light shines suddenly.
We can see that there are some people who have practiced doing His will more than others and they are better at it. We just need practice. "The workers are few". The servants, (who frequent these moments more than we do) are unselfish. They just love others more than we do. My wife is like that - I guess that is why I am with her, I hunger for the good stuff - but we both know she is not perfect all the time.
God wants us to desire (hunger) to be more loving but we continue to wrestle with our flesh.
So the key to walking in the spirit is to be an unselfish giver. I wrestle with and am prone to be more concerned about my needs and my family's more than anyone else's. I think if Christians are honest, most of us realize we are not like Mother Teresa or Billy Graham, willing to give up all to serve, love, be a priest or pastor, etc. Don't worry, we all are not called to live like that, we just need to be available when He calls on us to do the little things and they are perfect.

Perfectionism debunked

Spurgeon failed at that moment. That wasn't a perfect moment for him. It was rooted in pride, "I'll show him he isn't perfect, I will draw the worst out of him ... embarrass him so all can see ... ha, ha! Then I will write about ot in my next book ... use it to teach others ... I am so brillant." Is that what Jesus would do or Satan? Did the Holy Spirit lead him to poor milk over his head?
I could be wrong. God works in mysterious ways. He punishes us sometimes. ???

Jesus taught that Christians would ‘hunger and thirst’ after righteousness (Matthew 5:6).

A thought came to my mind when I read this in the context of your topic. We hunger for these moments of perfection and ultimately the state of perfection. If we were perfect all the time, there would be no hunger. It is like eating food constantly, you would be full always and never hunger.
That said, this analogy comparing physical hunger and thirst with spiritual food, proves that life isn't perfect and nobody is. It is good to go without food and drink sometimes to appreciate it more when you get it.
Another point to be made is God planned it this way. We appreciate what is good because there is evil.

The challenge of the flesh is not ended by claiming victory.

We can't helo but to shrug our shoulders sometimes. In many instances throughout history, pain, suffering, death was meant to be - ordained by God. And we don't always understand His will. But He is sovereign! So He has allowed everything to take place as it has and the future will pan out exactly as He planned. We are a part of history in good and bad ways and so we must accept it.

We desire perfection but it is our pride to think we have been completely perfected when we still posses our flesh. God is not yet finished with us. We are still growing. If we were perfect , there would no instructions for spiritual growth!

God will deal a wake-up call to those prestinely pure and holy folks who think they do not sin. It will be a perfect moment ... probably not a cup of milk poured on their heads.
Actually, when we receive our new eternal resurrected bodies THEN we will know perfection!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

hopefully the irony of one insisting “God hates homosexuals” in one thread whilst simultaneously expressing any interest whatsoever in a surely homosexual king’s translation in another is lost to all and sundry…
forsooth
no offense meant ok

This article answers the false claims that King James was a sodomite.

Another King James Bible Believer

The King James Bible.

brandplucked.webs.com

 

[Johann]

No. I did not say you were not quoting the Scriptures. My problem is that you are quoting other men and that you look to commentaries, and lexicons as if they hold some kind of special insight when that is not always the case. My desire is that you quote the Bible alone and look to the Bible alone and ask God for the understanding. My desire for you is to just read and believe all of what the Bible says even when you may not like what it says (even when it talks about how we need to be perfect). Why? Because Jesus said that the Pharisees undid the Word of God by their traditions. The same is happening today when we look to scholars. Granted, I am not saying you cannot look to scholars or use lexicons, but they should be a last resort in my humble opinion. The Word of God does not look favorably upon worldly wisdom of men that seeks to make God’s Word say something different than what it plainly means.

My desire, pathos and zeal, the same as you, is to glorify Christ Jesus.

There are more than 45,000 denominations globally. Followers of Jesus span the globe. But the global body of more than 2 billion Christians is separated into thousands of denominations. Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Apostolic, Methodist — the list goes on.

Pretty amazing, Is it not? Why all the denominations?

I am not angry or bitter with you brother and wish we could walk together, God willing.
J.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Puzzled?

Will Christians Be Judged?


by Rick Phillips October 15, 2000

Tonight's question for the Question Box is, "Will Christians Be Judged?" The Bible verse that prompts this question is 2 Corinthians 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

The answer, very briefly, is, "Yes, Christians will be judged." That is exactly what the Apostle Paul is saying in that verse. He had been talking, in chapter 4, about the struggles involved in Christian ministry, which he likened to an on-going death. Then in chapter 5, Paul expresses his joy at the knowledge that death is followed by heavenly life. Backing up to verse 9, he writes, "So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ." The answer, therefore, is "Yes, Christians will be judged according to our works, as will everybody else."

There are, I am sure, two questions lurking behind that one question. The first question has to do with the possibility of condemnation in that judgment. "Might Christians be condemned in that judgment to come?" Here, we have an opportunity to employ the vital principle of Bible interpretation, that a difficult verse is interpreted according to others that bear on the subject. For instance, in this case we turn to Romans 8:1, which says, "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." On the basis of that one verse alone – and of course there are myriad others like it – we can conclude that while believers will be judged after death we will not be condemned and consigned to hell. As Jesus tells us in John 6:40, "Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." That is a clear statement of justification at the end for all who look to Christ in faith.

The next question is this: "If salvation is by grace alone, apart from works, then how can believers be rewarded in heaven for our works?" First we have to observe that the New Testament definitely states that we will be rewarded for our good works. When we say that men and women are unable to please God by their works, we are talking about unregenerate sinners trying to be justified by works. That cannot be done. But it does not follow that regenerate Christians cannot please God, cannot do genuinely good works by means of an active faith in Christ. While the unsaved man cannot please God, the saved man can, by faith in Christ and through the power of the Holy Spirit, although our works in this life are never perfect. Right after assuring us that salvation is not by works in Eph. 2, Paul says this, "We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do" (v. 10).

Remarkably, the Bible insists that we will be rewarded for good works we do, even though we know they are God's own work in our lives. A clear example is found in the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus says, "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal" (Mt. 6:19-20). In other words, the saying, "You can't take it with you," simply isn't true when it comes to Christians. Indeed, we send such treasures ahead of ourselves in the form of good works. One of my own favorite verses comes from the Old Testament and makes a similar point: "Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever" (Dan. 12:3).

How can this be? How can we get rewards for what is God's work of grace in us? The answer is God's grace in Christ. It is in Christ that our works are received by God with favor and rewarded by His grace. Here, the Westminster Confession puts it well, remarking that just as believers are accepted in Christ, so also are the believer's works accepted in Christ. God "looking upon them in His Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections" (XVI. 6).

An excellent example of this is found in the Eleventh chapter of Hebrews. God there presents the heroes of the faith and you may notice that none of their blemishes and sins that are obvious in the Old Testament are revealed in this chapter. Between the Old Testament record and the New Testament recounting is the shed blood of Jesus, which washes all our sins away and leaves only that which is pleasing to God. Those He is delighted as a Father to reward in love. Those rewards, no doubt, will be spiritual, consisting of joy and love and other eternal blessings.

None of this makes sense to us, I admit, until we remember that God is love. It is in His nature to give, the way a Father does to a child. He gives us the strength to act, He guides us with His very hand, He puts His Spirit within to give us new motivations, and when all that is said and done, He will cry with joy, "Well done, my child! Well done!" He is the God of love.

"Therefore," Paul says, "we make it our goal to please Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ." Yes, it is this future judgment that should motivate us. It is knowing that the condemnation we have deserved will not be inflicted on us that gives us gratitude to please Him; and it also is the anticipation of "solid joys and lasting pleasures" that encourages us in hardship to serve Him, looking forward to eternal rewards in heaven. The effect is to make our present actions purposeful. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians, our work will be shown for what it is, either burned up as simple chaff while we are saved, or refined to shine forever and ever, like the stars in the heaven, to the glory of God and to our own eternal delight.

Still puzzled?
J.

No. When you said judged, it implied like I was facing some kind of condemnation in hellfire by God because you quoted certain words from 2 Timothy 3:1-9 as in reference to me (Because I am the only one in this thread that would fit your claim to that). You were saying there are superheroes who are self taught and they have a form of godliness. This is talking about those who are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth (Meaning, they are not saved).

However, I am not saying that Christians will not be judged. I have believed for a long time now that judgment must begin first at the house of God. But by what you said, it made it sound like I was go to end up in a not so nice place. If that is not what you meant, then praise God. But I just don’t get that impression at first glance.

 

[Johann]

You have put together a good study. I have had conflicts with those who think of "total sinless perfectionisn", which we will not achieve until we go to heaven and rid ourselves of the flesh. Jesus is sinless perfection and we are in Christ.
However, I believe we all have moments of perfection. These moments are prepared by God and He works through us to accomplish His will. In these moments, we are being perfect as our Father in heaven. Why else would He order us to be perfect - if we could not.
It could be just helping a person in need. Soemthing happened and they prayed to God for help and you are there. God tells you go help that person. You did and it was perfect. Maybe the same day you were walking down the street and a car drove over a puddle and splashed your new Sunday suit. Immediately you cussed at him. Well, that doesn't mean you didn't have a perfect moment earlier in the day, it just means you aren't perfect all the time.
He factors in our blunders with His plan, with His grace and sobin the midst of an uneventful day and/or darkness, light shines suddenly.
We can see that there are some people who have practiced doing His will more than others and they are better at it. We just need practice. "The workers are few". The servants, (who frequent these moments more than we do) are unselfish. They just love others more than we do. My wife is like that - I guess that is why I am with her, I hunger for the good stuff - but we both know she is not perfect all the time.
God wants us to desire (hunger) to be more loving but we continue to wrestle with our flesh.
So the key to walking in the spirit is to be an unselfish giver. I wrestle with and am prone to be more concerned about my needs and my family's more than anyone else's. I think if Christians are honest, most of us realize we are not like Mother Teresa or Billy Graham, willing to give up all to serve, love, be a priest or pastor, etc. Don't worry, we all are not called to live like that, we just need to be available when He calls on us to do the little things and they are perfect.

Spurgeon failed at that moment. That wasn't a perfect moment for him. It was rooted in pride, "I'll show him he isn't perfect, I will draw the worst out of him ... embarrass him so all can see ... ha, ha! Then I will write about ot in my next book ... use it to teach others ... I am so brillant." Is that what Jesus would do or Satan? Did the Holy Spirit lead him to poor milk over his head?
I could be wrong. God works in mysterious ways. He punishes us sometimes. ???

A thought came to my mind when I read this in the context of your topic. We hunger for these moments of perfection and ultimately the state of perfection. If we were perfect all the time, there would be no hunger. It is like eating food constantly, you would be full always and never hunger.
That said, this analogy comparing physical hunger and thirst with spiritual food, proves that life isn't perfect and nobody is. It is good to go without food and drink sometimes to appreciate it more when you get it.
Another point to be made is God planned it this way. We appreciate what is good because there is evil.


We can't helo but to shrug our shoulders sometimes. In many instances throughout history, pain, suffering, death was meant to be - ordained by God. And we don't always understand His will. But He is sovereign! So He has allowed everything to take place as it has and the future will pan out exactly as He planned. We are a part of history in good and bad ways and so we must accept it.

We desire perfection but it is our pride to think we have been completely perfected when we still posses our flesh. God is not yet finished with us. We are still growing. If we were perfect , there would no instructions for spiritual growth!

God will deal a wake-up call to those prestinely pure and holy folks who think they do not sin. It will be a perfect moment ... probably not a cup of milk poured on their heads.
Actually, when we receive our new eternal resurrected bodies THEN we will know perfection!

Love your heart @Ronald David Bruno

Mat 12:20 A bruised reed He will not break, and a smoldering (dimly burning) wick He will not quench, till He brings justice and a just cause to victory.
AMPC

I simply love the way you post in sincerity and love my brother.

Shalom, peace and wellbeing to you and family.
Johann

 

[Johann]

No. When you said judged, it implied like I was facing some kind of condemnation in hellfire by God because you quoted certain words from 2 Timothy 3:1-9 as in reference to me (Because I am the only one in this thread that would fit your claim to that). You were saying there are superheroes who are self taught and they have a form of godliness. This is talking about those who are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth (Meaning, they are not saved)

I never said it nor implied it brother, I know you have a passion for Christ Jesus and seek every opportunity to glorify Him.
This is another uncalled for assumption on your part.

J.

 

[Johann]

However, I am not saying that Christians will not be judged. I have believed for a long time now that judgment must begin first at the house of God. But by what you said, it made it sound like I was go to end up in a not so nice place. If that is not what you meant, then praise God. But I just don’t get that impression at first glance.

Lol!
Get to know me better brother!
J.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My desire, pathos and zeal, the same as you, is to glorify Christ Jesus.

But defending sin from an erroneous interpretation on 1 John 1:8 or denying the Bible’s plain reading of telling us to be perfect never glorifies Jesus Christ. God cannot agree with our sin. God cannot agree with our thinking when it runs contrary to His Word. If God tells you to be perfect in the Bible, and He does, then that is something you have to accept whether you like it or not. Digging into the original languages sounds like an escape to undo what the text plainly says to me. The people who translated the Bible into English used the original languages to do it. We either believe the Bible as it exists today, or we just make up our own thing on what the original language might have said.

There are more than 45,000 denominations globally. Followers of Jesus span the globe. But the global body of more than 2 billion Christians is separated into thousands of denominations. Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Apostolic, Methodist — the list goes on.

Pretty amazing, Is it not? Why all the denominations?

I am not angry or bitter with you brother and wish we could walk together, God willing.
J.

I just want to know how I falsely accused you. I want to be able to reconcile that with you because I don’t want to have anything between me and God on the issue. We may disagree on this topic in the Bible, but that does not mean we should have anything personally against each other here. I desire peace even among my enemies.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I never said it nor implied it brother, I know you have a passion for Christ Jesus and seek every opportunity to glorify Him.
This is another uncalled for assumption on your part.

J.

I am glad to hear it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

James says God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith.
The poor guy with the Bible on the street is not going to have access to the original languages.
He will just read his Bible in the English and believe it. The Bible talks about us being perfect in many places.
All you have to do is go to BlueLetterBible and do a keyword search on the word “perfect.”
By doing so… you will find many places where God tells you to be perfect and or to be perfect in certain things in your life.

 

[Johann]

I desire peace even among my enemies.

Am I your enemy?

You should come and visit me, I have gangsters living in my backyard and shalom is Imperative, know what I mean?

I have nothing against you personally brother, relax.
J.