The good man that turned bad out of necessity

[Wrangler]

I missed this thread.

Who's here that is sick of @Matthias? Let's all get Matthias banned for life.

I put him on ignore 6 months ago.

I sense a lot of animosity from you. Don't you think you'd be happier without that?

Prolly doesn't know how to let it go. One of the great gifts coming to Christ gave me was it allowed me to release my anger.

Sorry people. I really hate Christian's.

Animosity out in the open. Because of the hate, you are drawn to post in a Christian forum. We still love you.

 

[Wrangler]

why don't you just admit you don't know what you will do if you or your family (God forbid) are attacked.

I already told him repeatedly what to do as a pacifist when attacked.

STEP 1. Don't be racist.
STEP 2. Don't be Islamophobic.
STEP 3. Patiently wait for the police to come arrest you.
STEP 4. Don't react in anger. Use the incident to bring us all together.

 

[Matthias]

I put him on ignore 6 months ago.

When is the last time you posted a message directly to me? Was it this week or was it last week?

Post in thread 'God Commands Righteous Violence'
God Commands Righteous Violence

July 30, 2026 is the last one which I located quickly.

 

[Matthias]

I already told him repeatedly what to do.

STEP 1. Don't be racist.
STEP 2. Don't be Islamophobic.
STEP 3. Patiently wait for the police to come arrest you.
STEP 4. Don't react in anger. Use the incident to bring us all together.

She already knows that I’m not racist, nor Islamophobic. So do you.

She won’t understand step 3 and step 4 until you tell her the context.

 

[Matthias]

Did Jesus and the apostles stop bad men from killing and injuring more people?

No. They didn’t.

Why does that not settle the matter? It did for the church, up until the 4th century.

 

[Matthias]

Yes. Why didn’t she kill the Nazis?

Remember this teaching: “You aren’t following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

The teaching I quoted is from a false teacher.

She didn’t kill the Nazis because she obeyed the teaching of Jesus and the apostles.

 

[Matthias]

I think if all men were contentious objectors like him, we wouldn't have a military.

The early church was like him. The Roman Empire still had a military.

The roles of state government (non-followers of Jesus) and church (followers of Jesus and the apostles) weren’t mixed.

 

[Matthias]

To bring it back to the beginning of our discussion, I believe Christians should be willing to do what is necessary for the greater good.

The greater good is to be Messiah in you to the world.

That includes going against the golden rule.

That cannot include going against his teaching.

 

[Matthias]

Do you understand that the majority of men that fought and killed the Nazis in WW2 were Christian?

Do you understand that your line of thinking in general is an attempt to justify Christians killing fellow Christians?

Do you understand that it isn’t God or the Messiah who wants Christians to kill one another?

Do you understand that it is the devil who wants Christians to kill one another?

This is the low bar. Until we are able to clear this hurdle, there’s no possibility of us clearing the higher hurdle.

Are you willing to kill the brothers and sisters of Jesus, the body of Messiah?

 

[Matthias]

@Riven do you recognize this photograph?

It documents (without being too graphic) the aftermath of Christians killing and wounding fellow Christians, as well as killing and wounding non-Christians, for what you deem to be “the greater good”.

Would it have a different impact on you if it pictured the dead and dying Christians at the hands of Christians in addition to the demolished structures?

Demolished buildings at the hands of Christians? Meh?

Demolished Christians at the hands of Christians? Meh?

 

[Riven]

View attachment 87856

@Riven do you recognize this photograph?

It documents (without being too graphic) the aftermath of Christians killing and wounding fellow Christians, as well as killing and wounding non-Christians, for what you deem to be “the greater good”.

Would it have a different impact on you if it pictured the dead and dying Christians at the hands of Christians in addition to the demolished structures?

Demolished buildings at the hands of Christians? Meh?

Demolished Christians at the hands of Christians? Meh?

Yes. That's a picture of Japan after we bombed them with atomic weapons. They were not Christians, and the alternative, a full scale invasion of Japan proper, would have resulted in at least a million dead American Christian men.

 

[Matthias]

Yes. That's a picture of Japan after we bombed them with atomic weapons.

Specifically, Nagasaki.

They were not Christians …

Do you not consider Catholics to be Christians?

How many Christians were killed in Nagasaki when the atomic bomb was dropped on the city?

AI Overview -

“When the atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki on August 9, 1945, an estimated 8,000 to 10,000 (primarily Catholics) were killed. This loss wiped out roughly two-thirds of the city’s active Catholic population because the bomb detonated directly over the Urakami district, the historic center of Christianity in the city.

Impact on the Christian Community

• Urakami Cathedral: The hypocenter (ground zero) was near the Urakami Cathedral, the largest Catholic church in East Asia at the time, which was completely destroyed.

• Casualties: Out of roughly 12,000 - 15,000 Catholics living in the immediate Urakami area, about 8,500 to 10,000 perished either instantly or from subsequent injuries.

• Historical Significance: Nagasaki’s Christian community had deep historical roots, having survived centuries of severe religious persecution and underground practice during Japan’s isolation period before worship was legalized in the 19th century.”

Have you not heard the story of Takashi Nagai?




That’s a photograph of him. He survived the bombing.



That’s a photograph with his wife and child. They did not survive the bombing.

Takashi Nagai - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now that you’ve seen some faces, what difference, if any, does that make for you?

P.S.

A book recommendation for you.

and the alternative, a full scale invasion of Japan proper, would have resulted in at least a million dead American Christian men.

 

[Matthias]

@Riven do you know what it is called when a civilian population is intentionally targeted for destruction?

 

[Debp]

Goodness...this thread just goes on and on. @Riven do you feel like you are being grilled? I feel like you are...but if you don't mind...

 

[Matthias]

@Riven please let me know if my questions have made you feel uncomfortable. I assure you that the questions you and others have asked me haven’t made me feel uncomfortable. I welcome them. If you don’t want to continue the conversation we can leave it where it stands.

 

[Riven]

Specifically, Nagasaki.



Do you not consider Catholics to be Christians?

How many Christians were killed in Nagasaki when the atomic bomb was dropped on the city?

AI Overview -

“When the atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki on August 9, 1945, an estimated 8,000 to 10,000 (primarily Catholics) were killed. This loss wiped out roughly two-thirds of the city’s active Catholic population because the bomb detonated directly over the Urakami district, the historic center of Christianity in the city.

Impact on the Christian Community

• Urakami Cathedral: The hypocenter (ground zero) was near the Urakami Cathedral, the largest Catholic church in East Asia at the time, which was completely destroyed.

• Casualties: Out of roughly 12,000 - 15,000 Catholics living in the immediate Urakami area, about 8,500 to 10,000 perished either instantly or from subsequent injuries.

• Historical Significance: Nagasaki’s Christian community had deep historical roots, having survived centuries of severe religious persecution and underground practice during Japan’s isolation period before worship was legalized in the 19th century.”

Have you not heard the story of Takashi Nagai?

View attachment 87877


That’s a photograph of him. He survived the bombing.

View attachment 87878

That’s a photograph with his wife and child. They did not survive the bombing.

Takashi Nagai - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Okay. So some of them were Christian. It is regrettable, but that is the nature of war. Imperial Japan was not a friendly country, and frankly, they attacked us first.

Now that you’ve seen some faces, what difference, if any, does that make for you?

As I said, I think their deaths are regrettable. But as was evident throughout the rest of WW2, civilian deaths go hand in hand with wars.

@Riven do you know what it is called when a civilian population is intentionally targeted for destruction?

It's called war. However, if the population is targeted for annihilation, then it's called genocide.

Goodness...this thread just goes on and on. @Riven do you feel like you are being grilled? I feel like you are...but if you don't mind...

@Riven please let me know if my questions have made you feel uncomfortable. I assure you that the questions you and others have asked me haven’t made me feel uncomfortable. I welcome them. If you don’t want to continue the conversation we can leave it where it stands.

No, I don't mind at all. I enjoy these discussions.

 

[Matthias]

Okay. So some of them were Christian. It is regrettable …

You say that Christians killing fellow Christians is regrettable. I think it is far more than that, but the question is this: What does Jesus think about his followers killing one another? Does he think it’s regrettable? Does he think it is more than that?

A secondary question: What does Satan think about the followers of Jesus killing one another?

… but that is the nature of war.

Yes. Up until the 4th century, the church taught followers of Jesus not to do it.

Imperial Japan was not a friendly country, and frankly, they attacked us first.

An historical fact.

As I said, I think their deaths are regrettable. But as was evident throughout the rest of WW2, civilian deaths go hand in hand with wars.

I presume you thought their deaths were regrettable before you saw Christian faces. Did seeing their faces deepen your feelings about it or make no difference in your feelings about it?

I’m asking because studies have shown that it makes a tremendous difference to soldiers. It’s much more than than regrettable to them. It’s easier to kill an enemy when you can’t see them than it is when you can see their faces.

It's called war. However, if the population is targeted for annihilation, then it's called genocide.

It isn’t called Just War. It’s called Total War. It’s called Terror Bombing. It’s called War Crime.

No, I don't mind at all. I enjoy these discussions.

I thought that was the case. Christians killing Christians and Christians killing non-Christians is an important issue to me. Thank you for discussing it with me.

 

[Matthias]

@Riven I would like for you to watch this 3 minute clip and tell me what you think about it.