The Gospel and the Spirit of Anti-Christ.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
There are translations that say that, for example:
Romans 10:4 (CEB) Christ is the goal of the Law, which leads to righteousness for all who have faith in God.
Can you acknowledge that the Greek word "telos" can mean either "end" or goal" and that "end" can mean "intention" or "aim" instead of "termination"? Greek words can have a variety of meanings which is why there are different translations of the Bible, so there should be room to discuss what the best word choice is.
No, if Christ is the end of the law, then according to certain definitions of "end", then that would mean that he abolished the law rather its fulfillment in spite of saying that he came to fulfill it in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it.
God has straightforwardly made His will known through His law (Psalms 40:8) and in Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will ever the Kingdom of Heaven in contrast with saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them. You are the one arguing in support of being workers of lawlessness by saying that God's law has ended while I'm the once arguing that we should do the will of the Father in obedience to His law, so I don't see how you can turn it around and expect that of me.
You have no knowledge of the New Covenant.
Under the New Covenant God's people no longer live by laws, rules or religion. Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. Living by faith does not mean living by laws rules or religion. The people that live by laws, rules and religion are Pharisees. Are you a Pharisee? Jesus didn't think much of the Pharisees, called them hypocrites 7 times in Matthew 23rd chapter.
Paul also said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what you do) no flesh will be justified" Romans 3:20.
The reason that Christians are no longer subject to the law is because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4. C
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Yesterday’s sermon was akin to this. The math equation presented:
Gospel + anything = nothing
Gospel - anything = nothing.
In other words, as Galatians delves into, the Gospel is an indivisible whole, adding or subtracting to it is NOT the Gospel.
If the Old Covenant taught us anything after 1700 years it is that man cannot meet the divine standard on our own, which means we are eternally trapped in our sins. Enter the Good News.
The Good News, is God found another way for us to be reconciled to him, which is through the atoning sacrifice of his Anointed, aka the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The humble reality is that our salvation is owed to what he did NOT what we did. Indeed, anyone who opposes this is an anti-Christ.
All we have to do is accept the priceless gift.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Hmmm. No. The notion of predestination naturally follows from the idea that God is all knowing.
St. Augustine, in Confessions, wrote that God is outside time since he created both motion and time.
The analogy is us looking at a completed painting. Although complete, it takes time to scan the area and absorb its meaning.
To believe that God predestinates people to heaven or to hell is to believe that God is an unjust sinner.
You will not find any scripture that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell. Therefore, you will not find any scripture that says God is an unjust tyrant.
Romans 9:14-24
King James Version
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Nope. Not even one little bit.
God's will be done, yes?
There is no power that can stop God's will. It is only our temporal existence that falsely perceives a lag between what God will's and the manifestation of that will. To God, his will is already done. You deeming the nature of God's existence outside and greater than time shows your rebellion to your Creator.
We are not saved because of the righteous choices yet to be made but by the choice he already made. Amen!
In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so if you want nothing to do with obeying it, then you then you want nothing to do with the New Covenant.
I don’t see how you can think that when NT because it contains 1,050 commands, such as with the two greatest commandments or the things spoken against in Romans 1:26-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-21, and Titus 3:1-3, or do you think the we are permitted to do those things? The NT repeatedly calls for us to repent from our sins. Even if you think that Acts 15:19-21 contains an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of a mature Gentile believer, the that still involves following laws.
In Romans 1:17, it is quoting Habakkuk 2:4, which was written by someone living under the Mosaic Covenant, so that is not a difference under the New Covenant, especially because the context of Habakkuk 2:4 contrasts the just who are living by faith with those who are not living in obedience to the Mosaic Law. Further, in Isaiah 51:7, the just are those on whose heart is that Mosaic Law, so the just living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it. It is contradictory to think that we should live by faith in God, but not by faith in what He has instructed.
Pharisees are far from the only group of people who live by laws, rules, and religion, so that alone does make someone a Pharisee, nor is it the case that someone being a Pharisee means that they are a hypocrite. Furthermore, it would be absurd to think that the problem that Jesus had with the Pharisees was that they were obeying what God commanded them to do. Jesus set a perfect example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he was much more zealous for obedience to it than the Pharisees were and he never criticized them for obeying it, but he did criticize them for not obeying it or for not obeying it correctly. For example, in Mark 7:6-9, Jesus said that they were hypocrites because they were setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the Mosaic Law of justice, mercy, and faith, so he was not opposing their obedience to the Mosaic Law, but rather he was calling them to have a higher level of obedience to it in a manner that is in accordance with its weightier matters.
The reason why we do not earn our justification as the result of obeying the Mosaic Law is not because it has ended, but because it was never given as a means of doing that, so that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t obey it for the purposes for which it was given. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that there are translations that say that Christ is the goal of the law?
Under the New Covenant Christians are taught and led by the Holy Spirit, John 16:13.
My KJV Bible says, "Christ is the END of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4. To be under the law or subject to it is to be under the curse. "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse" Galatians 3:10.
Proof that you are under the curse is because you reject salvation by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8.
God's will is that you trust and believe in Jesus Christ for your salvation. Plus nothing.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Friend, you are confused. You are confusing the means with the ends.
MEANS - Romans 10:9 if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from among the dead, you will be saved. Bible see other translations
END - God's will, outside of time, seems "predestined" from our perspective.
The only one that was predestinated was Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:4. He was predestinated to be the savior of the world, John 3:17. Salvation is given to those that call upon the name of the Lord. "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
(2 Corinthians 4:7–18) 1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase?2Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection. 6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. 7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. 10The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. 11So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires.13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. The Wages of Sin 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not! 16Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20For when you were slaves to sin, you were free of obligation to righteousness.21What fruit did you reap at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The outcome of those things is death. 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. |
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
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