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The Gospel Of Grace

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by RichardBurger, Jul 24, 2010.

  1. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    The Gospel of Grace: --- All scriptures from the NKJV

    After studying the Scriptures for over 60 years and writing many articles contradicting the writings of those that place their faith in their religions and religious practices, I have concluded that most will not believe what I write here. However, I am going to write what I believe to be the true Gospel of God’s grace based on the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

    The true Gospel of Grace is that God has now concluded ALL men are hopelessly lost and are continually sinful in the flesh. Since that is true, based on the law, then God is totally fair in offering salvation based on the work of His Son, Jesus Christ, on the cross. The blood of His Son, Jesus Christ, covers ALL the sins of anyone that will place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross. These are betting their eternal life on the work of God and are made children of God in Christ.

    It makes me sad to understand that most men/women do not really do this. They seem to place their salvation on religious activities and their works. They believe in the “social/moral gospel” taught by religions. In reality they place their trust in what they do, not what God has done. They cannot deny themselves and follow Jesus. They will not relinquish control of their salvation to God and, instead, place their bets on what they “do for God“, not on what God has done for them.

    The following Scriptures show us that it is the work of God that saves.

    2 Cor 1:20-22
    20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
    21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
    22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

    Rom 8:35-39
    35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
    36 As it is written:

    "For Your sake we are killed all day long;
    We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."

    37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
    38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
    39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    2 Tim 1:8-12
    8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God,
    9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
    10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
    11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
    12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

    1 Peter 1:3-5
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
    4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
    5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    1 Cor 15:56-58
    56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
    57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

    1 John 5:4-5
    4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
    5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

    All those that place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross are kept by the power of God, not by their own power. Many do not believe this and I, personally, believe them to be hopelessly lost.
     
  2. Jimmy Engle

    Jimmy Engle New Member

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    Very nice post and a great reminder. I believe that whenever our joy come from our performance and what we can do for God instead of what Christ has done for us...it is idolatry. Our joy should always come from the finished work of Christ and not from our performance/works.
     
  3. skyangel

    skyangel Realist

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    Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God . Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    on the other hand we have....
    James 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him /

    James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    Grace is no good alone as faith is no good alone. The faith that saves includes the works of faith which are obviously different to the works of the law.
    If there are no works of faith then the faith is dead. How can anyone be saved by grace through faith if they have no faith in the first place?
     
  4. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Faith without works, this is how works , work!

    You are siyying at home, relaxing, God speaks to you, He says", I want you to go to spain", so in faith, you respond , " yes Lord, When?. Now you may or may not get a response straight away, here comes the faith part. 4 days later a man knocks on your door, and says" Here. i have a ticket for you to spain". so you accept and in faith you jump on that plane and fly. Now you get to spain, you walk out of the airport, and there is a beggar sitting there, and God says to you, " Go give Him that last $50 you have", and in faith you go and give that man your last $50. now that works have being done,Gods will Gods way, not your own works, but His through you, in agreement with one another.

    In His Love

    PS now it takes faith as you await the next step
     
  5. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

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    Very good post Richard, I think I agree with you on this, it is sad but accurate, religion is so deceptive, it makes people feel free while enslaving them.

    I am rereading a book titled "Biblical Dyslexia" by Charles Wilhelm. He makes the point that many base their faith on the bible rather than their personal experiences with God, making them of a different faith than that of Abraham.
     
  6. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    It is sad that when a person posts about the simple gospel of grace many come on preaching works through the book of James. A book that is totally void of the gospel of grace. -- To those I say "show me where works and grace are the same."

    These people take what was CLEARLY written to the Jews and try to tell us it is written to the grace church. Satan uses it to persecution the grace church just as the Judizers did when the y kept trying to place the grace church under the Jewish Law. Although they say it is not works it clearly is.

    Works of the sinful flesh do not have anything to do with faith. Works are man's idea of trying to save themselves by works no matter how you cut it.

    In the book of Gal. 3 we find that no one can make themselves perfect (better) by the works of the flesh. Those that stress works to prove faith are the very same as everyone else. They sin just as much.

    Was James confused? Or was he still preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, which included the Law?

    James 2:20-21
    20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
    (NKJ)

    No, he was not!!!!!!!  ---- He was accounted righteous before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God. 

    Gen 15:4-6
    4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
    5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
    6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
    (NKJ)

    Not only that, but God accounted him righteous solely for his faith in His Promises, and not by anything that He did.  Paul accurately reports this.  It seems that James, in order to mix salvation by works and faith, did not consider this fact in the scriptures.  It was not until Genesis 22, many years after Isaac was born, when Abraham was well over 100 years old, that he agreed to offer Isaac.
     
    James writes:
    22  You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
    23  And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.
    24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

    Neither of those last two statements jives with the Genesis 15:4-6 account. Nowhere does the OT Scripture say that Abraham "was called God's friend" BECAUSE he was willing to offer up his son Isaac. In Isaiah 41:8 it states that God called Abraham His friend but nowhere in the context of the chapter does He say it was because Abraham offered up his son Isaac.

    What James wrote, as shown above, is a direct contradiction of the Gospel that Paul taught and the account given in Gen 15:4-6. Abraham was righteous before God solely because he believed God’s promises.

    In my opinion the book of James is devoid of the gospel of grace as taught by Paul. Here are some facts that support my opinion. I find them interesting.

    1. The word “Law” is found in 18 places
    2. The word “grace” is found in 2 places
    3. The word “Christ” is found in 2 places
    4. The word “Justified” is found in 2 place with the words “by works” after them
    5. The words “by faith” is found 1 time (justified by works and not by faith only)

    6. The word “cross” is not found
    7. The word “reconciled” is not found
    8. The word “sanctified” is not found
    9. The word “saved” is not found
    10. The words “in Christ” are not found

    Above was written by: Richard Burger, 2003. Revised 2009

    Romans 4:1-7
    Abraham Justified by Faith (Genesis 17:10) 4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
    2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
    3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
    4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. David Celebrates the Same Truth
    5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
    6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
    7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
    NKJV

    Note verse 4 above. Please explain to me how the above stacks up against James.
     
  7. 242006

    242006 New Member

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    I do not think that you are taking into account that which took place in the first age.



    Act 3:20 ​



    And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

    Act 3:21
    Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began




    God's plan to send Christ was hatched before this second age -- even before God created flesh man.



    Joh 3:13​



    And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


    Here, Christ, Himself, tells us it was the plan, from the beginning, that Christ was to be born in the flesh. It was never a case of 'wait and see' as you portend, with God deciding to send Christ after observing sinful mankind.

    Rev 12:4​



    And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.



    Even Satan knew the plan from the beginning of this age and was waiting throughout in in order to mess up God's plan.

    One can conclude that this second age is the age of 'grace'; however, your reasoning therefore is fatally flawed.



     
  8. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    Here we go again!!!! "My reasoning is fatally flawed." -- Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll I know that your reasoning is fatally flawed, SO THERE!!!!!

    1 Corinthians 2:7-10
    7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
    8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
    9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."
    10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
    NKJV

    If Satan had known about the "HIDDEN"gospel of grace he would not have let Jesus shed His blood on a cross.


    The scriptures are very easy to understand """"IF""" you don't try to make a round peg fit in a square hole. The scriptures were never intended to be blended and harmonized so that they fit in a man made theolgy. Jesus did not come to offer a kingdom to the Gentiles. He was sent to the Jews to set up the kingdom that was promised to them. But many try and say he was sent to the Gentiles too and that is not supported by scriptures.

    Let me make it clear that Jesus Christ did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the "kingdom of heaven" TO the Gentiles. The following scriptures support my view.

    Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
    5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
    6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

    Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
    23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
    24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
    8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

    Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all that was written of Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8.

    If a person does not believe that Jesus was just sent to the Jews as He said He was then they are saying Jesus lied.
     
  9. fivesense

    fivesense New Member

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    Skyangel, you quote from a letter that has a group title on the address

    Ja 1:1 . James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

    If a letter addressed to my daughter came to my house, where she lives, and it had a check made out to her name in it, what would be thought of me if I opened it up and took the check, endorsed it, and spent the money? That would be considered extremely unethical. Well, it came to my house, I might protest. But the name on the envelope was your daughter's, not yours! So what? It's my house, isn't it?

    While there is many great truths of God in James' letter to the twelve dispersed tribes, none of it was written with us, the Body of Christ, in mind. Profitable for instruction, teaching, equipping? Yes, it is the truth of God given to the Jews, and it is for us to know. It is not written to us, not like Paul's letters and epistles. Correctly cutting the word of truth is vital to good teaching and is needed to be approved by God as a qualified workman. The mixing of Kingdom teaching to the Jews and the spiritual truths of Paul do not make for proper nourishment for the Body. It is poison at it's core.

    fivesense
     
  10. fivesense

    fivesense New Member

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    This has been one of the most spiritually satisfying posts I have been privelaged to participate in. It is not that I agree with you RichardBurger, because I do. It is because the advance towards Body truth being put forth, with all spiritual realities hinging upon this understanding of the dispensations of God with mankind. Understanding Who He is and what He is doing in the earth, and how to accord one's prayers towards God in His unfolding of this plan, is the "being in the will of God" that the ecclesia is unable to attain to, busily pursuing flesh and philosophy. I glory in God and exalt in His Son through the confirmation of your faith towards us.

    fivesense
     
  11. fivesense

    fivesense New Member

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    AV Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

    AV Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

    AV Eph 1:19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
     
  12. skyangel

    skyangel Realist

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    It appears that some of you hate the idea of the works of Faith and wish to believe it does not apply to you who claim to be saved by grace. However, if your faith in God does not result in works of faith then you make the grace of God of none effect in your lives and you worship the Lord in vain.

    The works of faith are very different to the works of the flesh. Some of you seem to make no distinction between them.

    Faith always results in actions of faith. If you have no actions with your faith then your faith is dead.

    Look at all the acts of faith described in Hebrews 11. There is a whole list of the works of faith in that chapter. Those works of faith were done by the men of God and are listed as examples of faith and the way faith works.

    Faith always brings results through actions.

    The grace of God is THROUGH Faith. You cannot have access to grace without faith and you cannot have faith without the works of faith. If there are no works of faith then your faith is dead and does not work at all..

    James 2:20 - 26
    But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


    Those who think Abraham was not justified by works but was righteous and justified before he did any works of faith can make all the excuses you want to call the Word of God a lie.
    What excuses to do make about Rahab? Was she also justified and righteous before she did any works of faith ?

    Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    Hebrews 11 tells us the substance and evidence of faith is in the works of faith by giving us all the substantial examples of faith and describes the works done by the people of faith.

    If Faith did not demand works to prove that Faith then even the devil would be saved by grace since the devil also believes in God.

    James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    No wonder the followers of the devil and followers of the false Christ hate the Word of God through James and prefer to believe it is a lie. Satan does not and cannot do any works of faith and therefore must teach that works of faith are unnecessary.



    Heb 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Belief in God is not the same as faith in God. The devils, false prophets, and false teachers of a false Christ believe but have no faith and cannot please God at any time.

    James 2:28 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
     
  13. Paul

    Paul Member

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    sa, of all the things you have posted I believe these posts on James are the ones I can agree with completely. Few people understand the difference in James use of work and Paul's use of works.
     
  14. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    The subject of this thread is “the gospel of grace.” The gospel of grace is the power of God to save sinners in the flesh. --- We see how quickly Satan wants to turn this thread into a thread about works.

    It is a fact that Abraham was accounted as righteous before God simply because he believed God’s promises. Today, under grace, we are accounted righteous before God simple because we believe in His Son, Jesus. Believing in His son means we believe His blood shed on the cross is our atonement for our sins of the flesh.

    Religious men/women can not accept that because they don‘t have enough faith in God to keep His promises in Christ. They think doing good works shows they have faith. --- But we must try and see what they mean by works of faith. If you pin them down it reverts back to the works of the Law of Moses.

    Today, under grace, the work of the child of God is their placing their faith, trust, confidence and hope in the work of Jesus (God) on the cross. --- While Paul was preaching the gospel of grace there were Jews, called Judaizers. that were constantly trying to get the members of the Gentile church to go back under the Law of Moses. It is still happening today. However today some, if not most, of the Judaizers are the members of the Christian church.

    Every child of God proves their faith when they refuse to go back under the Law of works and stands fast against those that want them turn back to religious works.

    Hebrews 10:35-39
    35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward.
    36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
    37 "For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
    38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him."
    39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
    NKJV

    What is the will of God?

    John 6:28-29
    28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"
    29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
    NKJV

    John 16:8-9
    8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
    NKJV

    2 Corinthians 4:3-5
    3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
    4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
    5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus' sake.
    NKJV

    John 3:16-18
    16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
    17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
    18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    NKJV

    Nothing in the scriptures above says anything about works of the flesh.

    Okay, show me your faith. What are the works you are so proud of. You say they are different from works of the flesh so obviously you know what they are. So tell us what works you are doing that you seem to think no one else is doing.
     
  15. fivesense

    fivesense New Member

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    The difference between Paul's evangel, live and do, and the circumcision Gospel of the Lord, do and live, will not be made known to those who seek to hold to works of flesh as proof of faith. Such light is withheld from those which retain confidence in themselves and do not rely on the Living God. It is an easy matter to measure oneself to another if your standard proceeds from your own imagination. No doubt, we all see ourselves in the better light when we rely on appearance and actions. But in this spiritual battle we attend, which many often fail to see in their earnest desire to vaunt themselves over others, it is how we obey out of faith the leading of the Holy Spirit, which determines our place before God.

    God is not taking into account men's offenses any longer. There is no record of it going on. He is at peace with all men everywhere, His Son having made peace through the precious blood of the Cross. Works of the flesh, disguised as being faith-based, are condemned and will burn up like so much dry grass. It is obedience out of faith, in all matters, that forms the material of the workmanship of God through Christ Jesus in our mortal bodies. Works can and are counterfeited perpetually by sincere and honest believers, unaware that being fake has a reward.

    Live by the Spirit and do the good works that were ordained to be accomplished in and through us, works that were already planned from before the disruption of the world. But it must be the Living One producing the goods, or it is all vanity. The Kingdom Gospel is not this way, it is "if" you do these things, you will live, if you do not, you will be cut off. The elect are justified already, finished, not guilty, access to the Father a surety. Not so the Jewish believer. Read James and John and you will find nothing of justification of the ungodly anywhere. Nothing.

    Entrance into this great truth, that there is only one Apostle that was given to the Gentile nations, the rest abdicating and loosing their privilage to go unto the nations, will never be understood by those who seek to obtain their righteousness based on their own works instead of the Achiever Himself.

    fivesense
     
  16. fivesense

    fivesense New Member

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    There is a difference between hating something and not being in agreement with it. Strong words meant to bias. Or discharge wrath. Neither are very godly.
    I searched the Scriptures for "works of faith", I could not find it. It seems a non sequitur to respond to it. I did not find "faith-works either. I did find "works of the flesh".

    AV Ro 4:14 For if they which are of the law [be] heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: This pertains to works and how it voids the promise of God to us.

    The Bible speaks nothing about " making the grace of God of none effect", so to take aim and shoot at people with a scripture-like sounding phrase, expecting to receive recognition for spiritual adroitness is a ploy that anyone knowledgable in the word of God is not put off by. It is hijacking and manipulation, not honesty displayed with integrity. There are better and more noble ways to address differences in faith.

    fivesense
     
  17. skyangel

    skyangel Realist

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    You would need to come and stay at our place for a month or so to see for yourself. There is no way you will believe me if I write it down.


    Read James chapter 2 and ask the Lord to show you.
     
  18. Adstar

    Adstar New Member

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    I agree.

    That is why paul says Jesus removes all boasting from man.

    Romans 3
    23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  19. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    What you don't seem to understand is that men can put on a religious show to everyone. They can fool others into thinking that they are closer to God than others. They can even fool themselves.

    When you set yourself up as having works to prove your faith you are boasting.

    Do you think God is blind and can not see into the hearts of men? The truth is that God sees into men/women's hearts and He knows those that trust in Him.
     
  20. 242006

    242006 New Member

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    LOL...This is the 'Christian Debate Forum'. If you wanted full agreement with your unbiblical positions, post somewhere else where no one actually studies the Bible. That way, you might get away with your Bible illiteracy. Your reaction to having your understanding proven false as to why Christ was sent by God is very childish.

    Obviously, by way of your comment, "here we go again", it is fair to conclude that others have found your understandings/beliefs to be unbiblical as well.

    2Ti 3:16​



    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:








    Pulling out one set of scriptures in support of one's position does not mean that one is necessarily correct. One's position needs to meet the burden of reproof in the totality of the Bible, as well, before the Bible-believing Christian can accept such position as Bible Truth. In my previous post in this topic, I demonstrated that your position does not meet that burden of reproof -- and, hence, your position is false. Accordingly, for those who actually believe the Bible, the only conclusion that can be reached is that you are in error.

    I hope this helps you with your future posts -- do your homework first.



    Thank you for proving yourself in error! Look at v. 7 -



    1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

    God's plan for salvation in this second age, through the shed blood of Christ, was ordained [meaning predetermined] before the world [meaning age -- See Strong's]. God ordained it without witnessing the sinful nature of flesh mankind. The position you took in the OP could not be more in error. As I indicated in my prior post, you are remiss in your failure to consider the first age, and that which transpired therein.

    Your conclusion [Satan would not let Jesus shed His blood on the cross] is certainly heretical -- even bordering on blasphemy!! You act as if salvation was ever available to Satan in this second age. Have you not read Eze. 28?? In v. 8 and v. 10, Satan's death sentence was pronounced [in the first age]. Satan knows of his death sentence. So, of course, Satan, with knowledge of the Son of God in the flesh of Christ, would want Him crucified. For you to contend that such foreknowledge of Christ would preclude Satan from having Christ crucified can only mean that you think salvation is available to Satan, which implies that Christ shed blood for Satan too. That is a dangerous belief that you have.

    The reference to 'rulers' ['princes' in the KJV] pertains to mankind -- not Satan. Your confusion of the term 'rulers' with Satan, and, thereby, conclude that salvation exists for Satan, is further proof of your Bible illiteracy -- leading to heretical, and, perhaps, blasphemous beliefs. Again, I suggest that you do your homework before posting.

    Once again, you demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge and your complete Bible illiteracy. Your position is so easily defeated. See Acts 10 and Peter's ministering onto Cornelius, a Gentile.


    Act 10:28 And he [Peter] said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

    Christ certainly did come to save Gentiles too! Your ignorance of the three ages, the purpose for this age, and Christ's mission speaks to your heresy. Again, I urge you to study and do your homework before posting.





     
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