Hi Axehead and dragonfly,
You worry so much over a 'lawless life' amongst Christians.
I am concerned about it because God is concerned about it, Haz. I care about what God cares about because He lives in me.
BTW, can you explain what is a 'lawless life'? What law are you speaking of?
A lawless life is disregarding the spiritual laws of God concerning sowing and reaping thinking that you are "covered" and "safe" and don't really have to be concerned about sin, because we prayed a prayer, live a good enough life and are members of the club (Christendom). That is lawlessness. Lawlessness is thinking that in the New Covenant there are only BLESSINGS and not CURSES, regardless of how one lives who is naming the name of CHRIST!
Lawlessness is FAITH without WORKS. The Thief on the cross HAD WORKS and every generation remembers the good confession that he spoke. The Faith in his heart
was manifested when he rebuked the other criminal and confessed Jesus Christ publicly to all, that HE had done no wrong. That was a
righteous work of declaration springing up out of that man's heart. And the fact that he was dying on the cross and he turns to another man who is completely emaciated and dying and being mocked by the throng, and he turns to this despised and rejected man and confesses that He is a LORD and has a Kingdom.
Haz, you completely miss the works of righteousness that God wrought in and through the thief on the cross by His Holy Spirit and have created your own doctrine of a "form of godliness" that seems to have no power to perform the works that God is after.
2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal,
The Lord knoweth them that are his. And,
Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Just as the thief on the cross, all who turn to Christ have the firstfruit, Christ Jesus. This makes them righteous, holy, sanctified, perfected and without sin.
But your insistence that in this imperfect physical life we live now, perfect behavior (or almost perfect behavior as I understand dragonfly puts it) is needed as evdience of ones salvation, this is not even witnessed in the lives of of you and your friends here (including whitestone).
You are not answering my questions. You constantly resurrect your "strawman" of
perfect behaviour.
If you ask any Christians here they will all say that their lifestyle has improved just as you guys claim yours has. BUT, the difference between us is that you guys claim this is evidence of salvation, whereas others here make no such claims. God does work in our lives and lifestyles do improve, but your argument that ones salvation is evidenced by a perfect lifestyle a misunderstanding of scripture.
Again, the "strawman" of
perfect lifestyle.
Regarding James 2:14-26, our works are to believe on Jesus, John 6:29. And faith without works is dead.
So, our only "works" are to believe on Jesus? Then what does it mean to believe on Jesus. Could you explain what belief means to you?
Does it mean that Jesus existed, He is the Savior of Sinners and I believe He saves me? Is that what belief means to you? I am sincerely trying to understand since you say, "Works" are "Belief", what does your "belief" look like (not necessarily physically). Can you explain your belief?
But believing on Jesus is harder than it appears, as some still turn back to works of self-righteousness (although they won't call it self-righteousness) to be perfected by the flesh, Gal 3:3.
Yes, many turn back. What will happen to them?
In the following verses where the word "works" is mentioned, would you call these works of self-righteousness"?
Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto
good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
1Ti_2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with
good works.
1Ti_5:10 Well reported of for
good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every
good work.
1Ti_5:25 Likewise also
the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.
1Ti_6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in
good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
2Ti_3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all
good works.
Tit_2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of
good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
Tit_2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of
good works.
Tit_3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain
good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Tit_3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain
good works for necessary uses,
that they be not unfruitful.
Heb_10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to
good works:
Jas_2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith
by my works.
Jas_2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that
faith without works is dead?
Jas_2:21 Was not Abraham our father
justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas_2:22 Seest thou how
faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas_2:24 Ye see then how
that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas_2:25 Likewise also
was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead,
so faith without works is dead also.
Jas_3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation
his works with meekness of wisdom.
1Pe_2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may
by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
Haz, in light of the previous scriptures, can you tell me if TRUE FAITH produces GOOD WORKS?
Also, have you thought about what JESUS was interested in and highlighted to the SEVEN CHURCHES in REVELATION? WORKS!!!
Rev_2:2
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent,
and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev_2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev_2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Rev_2:19
I know thy works, and
charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
Rev_2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and
I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Rev_2:26 And he that overcometh,
and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev_3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars;
I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev_3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for
I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev_3:8
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev_3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Is Jesus being self-righteous because He is focusing on WORKS?
Don't you see by now that if you continue to label everyone on this forum self-righteous who talks about Godly works, and works generated and produced by the Holy Spirit with man in union with God, then you have to call all the Apostles SELF-RIGHTEOUS because they spoke of WORKS!!
AND WORST OF ALL, YOU HAVE TO CALL JESUS CHRIST SELF-RIGHTEOUS because of His OBSESSION with WORKS.
Rev_2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and
I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
These works that Jesus is talking about are works that He is doing in and through His children, but some don't want to cooperate with Him and submit to Him and so they have created their own doctrine of "just believe".
Axehead