The Gospel of Reconciliation

[Ritajanice]

This is what so many are missing regarding the fall of man. True, Adam broke the perfect relationship he had with God. But the consequence of that sin was death. Rom 5:12. That death was physical. God told Adam that he would return to dust. Gen 3:19. Adam lost for mankind and the world an eternal existence. Man was created to be eternal, not to die. Mankind became mortal, subject to death at any time. We live a life of survival. This is not life

The death was also spiritual ..as Gods word says.

Ephesians 2:1-10​

1 In the past you were spiritually dead because of your disobedience and sins. 1
2 At that time you followed the world's evil way; you obeyed the ruler of the spiritual powers in space, the spirit who now controls the people who disobey God.
3 Actually all of us were like them and lived according to our natural desires, doing whatever suited the wishes of our own bodies and minds. In our natural condition we, like everyone else, were destined to suffer God's anger.
4 But God's mercy is so abundant, and his love for us is so great,
5 that while we were spiritually dead in our disobedience he brought us to life with Christ. It is by God's grace that you have been saved.
6 In our union with Christ Jesus he raised us up with him to rule with him in the heavenly world.
7 He did this to demonstrate for all time to come the extraordinary greatness of his grace in the love he showed us in Christ Jesus.
8 For it is by God's grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts,
9 but God's gift, so that no one can boast about it.
10 God has made us what we are, and in our union with Christ Jesus he has created us for a life of good deeds, which he has already prepared for us to do.

 

[Rightglory]

A Born Again does not sin because they have been Born Again of imperishable seed?

Being born again does not prevent anyone from sinning. It would be great if true, but alas we all sin. That is our human condition in this life. We sin. If you think you don't sin or are without sin I John 1:7-9 says differently.

 

[Ritajanice]

He forced the reconciliation on us. After all, it was His creation that He was saving. However, mankind is free to choose whether he will accept the call to union with God, or can reject it. We have the same condition now as Adam had in the beginning

Those who already believe in Jesus are those who are Born Again by the will of God.

There is nowhere in scripture that says “you” chose to be Born Again of imperishable seed..that is an act of God..a supernatural,spiritual act of God...you cannot make yourself Born Again.

 

[Rightglory]

Do you actually read posts and scripture that members post?

Please explain this scripture?..thank you.

Bible, King James Version​

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Romans​

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Previous Chapter​

Rom.8​

[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[12] Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[15] For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
[18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
[19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
[21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
[22] For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
[23] And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
[24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
[25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
[31] What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
[32] He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
[33] Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
[34] Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
[35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
[36] As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
[37] Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
[38] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I do read them otherwise I would not have known it was not relevant to the topic which was the reconciliation by Christ.
We can discuss a believers relationship with Christ in other post and topics. But it is not germaine here.

 

[Ritajanice]

Being born again does not prevent anyone from sinning. It would be great if true, but alas we all sin. That is our human condition in this life. We sin. If you think you don't sin or are without sin I John 1:7-9 says differently.

Once again you haven’t answered any of my questions, regarding what it means to be Born Again of imperishable, you also deny the scripture that I posted, saying.

A Born Again does not continue to sin because they have been Born Again of imperishable seed.

I will now, walk away from our discussion as we are at different levels of spiritual understanding.

 

[Rightglory]

Those who already believe in Jesus are those who are Born Again by the will of God.

There is nowhere in scripture that says “you” chose to be Born Again of imperishable seed..that is an act of God..a supernatural,spiritual act of God...you cannot make yourself Born Again.

God does the regeneration, but man chooses for God to do so.
However, this is not what the topic is about.

 

[Ritajanice]

God doe the regeneration, but man chooses for God to do so.
However, this is not what the topic is about.

No ....man can not do that..and it’s also not biblical...it’s God who chooses who he regenerates..

Best get back on topic..there is a topic about being Born Again ,so, it can be discussed in there.

 

[Rightglory]

Once again you haven’t answered any of my questions, regarding what it means to be Born Again of imperishable, you also deny the scripture that I posted, saying.

A Born Again does not continue to sin because they have been Born Again of imperishable seed.

I will now, walk away from our discussion as we are at different levels of spiritual understanding.

That is your choice. You apparently do not understand the topic which is why you cannot stay on topic.

 

[Rightglory]

Scripture please?

Even though you are not responding to me, I feel I should answer this post anyway.
The scripture is Gen 3:19, Rom 5:12, Rom 8:20-22

If Christ did not come died and was resurrected...so that we can become Born Again children..by receiving his Spirit, when, Spirit gives birth to spirit....then we would not spend eternity with God....we would spend it in hell.

No, there would be no eternity. That death, the consequence of Adam's sin was dust to dust, Gen 3:19. That was permanent death, non-existence of His whole creation which was subject to death. It would be continuous cycle of death. If man was to be eternal and have a relationship with God, death needed to be defeated. Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14-16, Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:21-22, and many others.

Where has God been if he hasn’t been around for ever?...

Deut.33:27: The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them. 1 Tim 1:17: Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Our bodies go back into the ground our spirit goes back to God..

Only because God promise Adam in Gen 3:16 that there would be redeemer to correct the error of Adam which was declared in vs 19.
We are not addressing the eternal state of God, but that of mankind and the created order (universe).

Christ was God in the flesh?

Already answered this.

All of my post was to do with reconciled back to God.

We are reconciled back to God via his Spirit...when he makes us Born Again.

I see you make no points on how we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God?

There is no place in scripture that says that a person is reconciled back to God by His Spirit. We reconcile ourselves to God by faith. II Cor 5:20.
Christ reconciled the world back to God by His death and resurrection. Col 1:20, II Cor 5: 18-19.
He reversed the fall of man, Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:21-22, Heb 2:14-16. He did it through His Incarnation.

 

[Ritajanice]

There is no place in scripture that says that a person is reconciled back to God by His Spirit. We reconcile ourselves to God by faith. II Cor 5:20.

I will answer now.lets discuss in a nice civil manner.....how can you reconcile yourself back to God by Faith?
Human faith won’t reconcile you back to God?

How do you know that Jesus died and was resurrected?

We know it by reading his written word.......where else in you do you know that Jesus died and was resurrected?.....you can’t just know it in the head.
Are you talking God given faith when we become Born Again?..which is a manifestation of the Spirit?
Where does the manifestation take place in the Born Again?

How can you believe/ have faith in God without his Spirit?..initially we are brought to believe in Jesus by God, then we must receive the gift of Faith which is a manifestation of the Spirit and the spiritual rebirth.where Spirit gives birth to spirit...only God can do that..you can’t birth your spirit into God’s Spirit.

We must be Born Again to be reconciled back to God and yes it’s all to do with the topic..for without his Spirit we are none of his?

We are forgiven our sins when we become Born Again and not until...


So how are we reconciled back to God without his Spirit?

We need the death and resurrection of Jesus..we also need the Spiritual rebirth...how else can we know God if we aren’t Born of the Spirit?

Tell me...what has been regenerated in you ? and how would you know you have been regenerated?

Also reconciled means to become right with God...when he forgives our sins and makes us Born Again..so Born Again has everything to do with being reconciled back to God...

Romans 5

Easy-to-Read Version

​

Right With God​

5 We have been made right with God because of our faith. So we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through our faith, Christ has brought us into that blessing of God’s grace that we now enjoy. And we are very happy because of the hope we have of sharing God’s glory. 3 And we are also happy with the troubles we have. Why are we happy with troubles? Because we know that these troubles make us more patient. 4 And this patience is proof that we are strong. And this proof gives us hope.5 And this hope will never disappoint us. We know this because God has poured out his love to fill our hearts through the Holy Spirit he gave us.
6 Christ died for us when we were unable to help ourselves. We were living against God, but at just the right time Christ died for us. 7 Very few people will die to save the life of someone else, even if it is for a good person. Someone might be willing to die for an especially good person. 8 But Christ died for us while we were still sinners, and by this God showed how much he loves us.
9 We have been made right with God by the blood sacrifice of Christ. So through Christ we will surely be saved from God’s anger. 10 I mean that while we were God’s enemies, he made friends with us through his Son’s death. And the fact that we are now God’s friends makes it even more certain that he will save us through his Son’s life. 11 And not only will we be saved, but we also rejoice right now in what God has done for us through our Lord Jesus Christ. It is because of Jesus that we are now God’s friends.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is what so many are missing regarding the fall of man. True, Adam broke the perfect relationship he had with God. But the consequence of that sin was death. Rom 5:12. That death was

This is in error God said in basically the moment you sin, you will die.

adam did die that moment,

Physical death is a result of sin, or a byproduct, not the penalty of sin.

If physical death was the penalty of sin, Jesus would not have had to come, in fact he would not have to do anything, he could just let mankind rape murder and pillage itself until they died. Then they would be saved anyway. Because they paid their own debt in full

God told Adam that he would return to dust. Gen 3:19. Adam lost for mankind and the world an eternal existence. Man was created to be eternal, not to die. Mankind became mortal, subject to death at any time. We live a life of survival. This is not life.

You have an eternal soul When you spend the next lifetime is what is at stake here..

You do not just cease to exist.

Christ accomplished two things by His life/death/resurrection. The most important, primary work of Christ was to overcome death. Christ took on our human nature in order to raise that nature to life. Heb 2:9 Heb 2:14-16. Rom 5:18, Rom 8:20-22, I Cor 15:21-22, I Cor 15:53-54.
He also made a sacrifice for sin so that He could have union with man in this life as well as for an eternity. This sacrifice made forgiveness of sin possible.
Overcomeing death requires a resurrection of our natures. A sacrifice for sin does not require a resurreciton. It requires the shedding of blood only.

His resurrection was for our wellbeing. Basically it proved to us that God accepted his payment, Its hard enough to believe now. Imagine if there was not a ressurection.. How could we maintain our faith if there was no ressurection?

Yes, death needed to be overcome first. Because it was, we now can have forgiveness because of His sacrifice for sin.

Actually the penalty of sin had to be overcome first. If he left us in our sin, we will still be eternal. We would just suffer our fate because there would be no forgiveness..

He forced the reconciliation on us. After all, it was His creation that He was saving.

Where do you get this from? God does not force anything

However, mankind is free to choose whether he will accept the call to union with God, or can reject it. We have the same condition now as Adam had in the beginning.

Actually no we do not.

Adam was able to not sin, We are not able to not sin, We still have the old nature in us, and while it is crucified, it still can have power. Adan did not have this issue.

Adam was created to be eternal and in union with God. Adam's sin broke the relationship but also suffered death. God recreated the world through Christ, so that man was again eternal, and now we also have a choice, seek life or death.
This is explained in I Cor 15:45-49 What Adam did was reversed by Christ by doing it in the opposite sequence.
To clarify this. Adam lost spiritual union first, the suffered physical death. Christ suffered death, physical first, then spiritual was possible.

Christ died spiritually on the cross. When he said it was finished, he meant it, it is finished.. He had already dies spiritually, the same way adam died. And suffered that death for us

He could have come down off the cross and restored all mankind like he will when he returnes. But he chose to give us hope. He gave up hIs Spirit. We did not kill him, we do not have that power..

 

[JBO]

I have went into details on that subject already, you need to pay attention.

And you need to take an English refresher course.

 

[Rightglory]

The death was also spiritual ..as Gods word says.

Ephesians 2:1-10​

1 In the past you were spiritually dead because of your disobedience and sins. 1
2 At that time you followed the world's evil way; you obeyed the ruler of the spiritual powers in space, the spirit who now controls the people who disobey God.
3 Actually all of us were like them and lived according to our natural desires, doing whatever suited the wishes of our own bodies and minds. In our natural condition we, like everyone else, were destined to suffer God's anger.
4 But God's mercy is so abundant, and his love for us is so great,
5 that while we were spiritually dead in our disobedience he brought us to life with Christ. It is by God's grace that you have been saved.
6 In our union with Christ Jesus he raised us up with him to rule with him in the heavenly world.
7 He did this to demonstrate for all time to come the extraordinary greatness of his grace in the love he showed us in Christ Jesus.
8 For it is by God's grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts,
9 but God's gift, so that no one can boast about it.
10 God has made us what we are, and in our union with Christ Jesus he has created us for a life of good deeds, which he has already prepared for us to do.

I will answer now.lets discuss in a nice civil manner.....how can you reconcile yourself back to God by Faith?
Human faith won’t reconcile you back to God?

Because Paul says so in Rom 3:26-28; Rom 5:1; Eph 2:8, 15; Acts 3:16 and many others

How do you know that Jesus died and was resurrected?

We know it by reading his written word.......where else in you do you know that Jesus died and was resurrected?.....you can’t just know it in the head.

We know it because it was proclaimed in scripture. We, by faith believe, and hope for the resurrection in the last day.

Are you talking God given faith when we become Born Again?..which is a manifestation of the Spirit?
Where does the manifestation take place in the Born Again?

How can you believe/ have faith in God without his Spirit?..initially we are brought to believe in Jesus by God, then we must receive the gift of Faith which is a manifestation of the Spirit and the spiritual rebirth.where Spirit gives birth to spirit...only God can do that..you can’t birth your spirit into God’s Spirit.

We must be Born Again to be reconciled back to God and yes it’s all to do with the topic..for without his Spirit we are none of his?

We are forgiven our sins when we become Born Again and not until...


So how are we reconciled back to God without his Spirit?

It has nothing to do with the topic, except that is why Christ needed to reconcile the world first. II Cor 5:20 explains BOTH reconcilements.
The first is Christ reconciling the world to God. vs 18-19. Then Paul says that we (the apostles) implore you to be reconciled to God. vs 20.

We need the death and resurrection of Jesus..we also need the Spiritual rebirth...how else can we know God if we aren’t Born of the Spirit?

Tell me...what has been regenerated in you ? and how would you know you have been regenerated?

What has been regenerated is a relationship with God that has eternal consequences We are born again through baptism which regenerates an eternal relationship, spiritual, that was lost due to the sin of Adam.
God had an eternal relationship with Adam in the beginning. Mankind lost it through the consequences of death to the world. By Christ reconciling the world back to God, recreated the world, we now can also have an eternal relationship with Him. But God does not compel us to have that relationship. It is a free choice of man to accept the call of the Holy Spirit to repentance or reject that call. II Pet 3:9.

 

[Ritajanice]

Because Paul says so in Rom 3:26-28; Rom 5:1; Eph 2:8, 15; Acts 3:16 and many others

We know it because it was proclaimed in scripture. We, by faith believe, and hope for the resurrection in the last day.

You need to know that Jesus was crucified and resurrected in your spirit, not just the written word...that is meaningless unless you are Born Again.

You can’t have human faith you must have God given faith to believe and understand the death and resurrection of Jesus, then the Holy Spirit leads us through scripture.

Gods written word is Spirit and you must be Born Again to understand it.

It has nothing to do with the topic, except that is why Christ needed to reconcile the world first. II Cor 5:20 explains BOTH reconcilements.
The first is Christ reconciling the world to God. vs 18-19. Then Paul says that we (the apostles) implore you to be reconciled to God. vs 20.

Being right/ reconciled to God by becoming Born Again has everything to do with the topic..

What has been regenerated is a relationship with God that has eternal consequences We are born again through baptism which regenerates an eternal relationship, spiritual, that was lost due to the sin of Adam.
God had an eternal relationship with Adam in the beginning. Mankind lost it through the consequences of death to the world. By Christ reconciling the world back to God, recreated the world, we now can also have an eternal relationship with Him. But God does not compel us to have that relationship. It is a free choice of man to accept the call of the Holy Spirit to repentance or reject that call. II Pet 3:9.

What has been regenerated is our spirit....Spirit gives birth to spirit..

John 3:1-21

English Standard Version

​

You Must Be Born Again​

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Titus 3:5-7​

​

King James Version​

​

​

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Now I know why I’m not understanding you....I will leave you to your own belief system....and I will stick with mine...bye,bye...no good going round in circles....we’re on different spiritual wavelengths.

 

[Rightglory]

This is in error God said in basically the moment you sin, you will die.

adam did die that moment,

Physical death is a result of sin, or a byproduct, not the penalty of sin.

If physical death was the penalty of sin, Jesus would not have had to come, in fact he would not have to do anything, he could just let mankind rape murder and pillage itself until they died. Then they would be saved anyway. Because they paid their own debt in full

He died both ways,. Spiritual first, broke the relationship. Second the world suffered death, physical death because of that sin.. Dust to Dust. Gen 3:19, It is reinforced in Rom 5:12, Rom 8:20-22.
If Jesus did not come it would not matter what you did. You would simply die as animals do. Dust to dust permanently, There would be no eternity. Christ gave life back to this world. That was His primary work, Rom 5:18 states this, I Cor 15:12-19 says ones faith would be worthless, futile, meaningless if Christ did not rise from the dead. Then Paul summarizes the equation between Adam and Christ. I Cor 15:21-22.

You have an eternal soul When you spend the next lifetime is what is at stake here..

You do not just cease to exist.

That is ONLY because Christ became Incarnated, became man, assumed our human nature to bring that nature and the world back to life, an eternal existence. God promised this would happen in Gen 3:15. If Christ DID NOT COME, you simply are dissolved by death, dust to dust from whence you came permanently.

His resurrection was for our wellbeing. Basically it proved to us that God accepted his payment, Its hard enough to believe now. Imagine if there was not a ressurection.. How could we maintain our faith if there was no ressurection?

His resurrection was for the life of the world. I would call that our wellbeing. I don't hold to the Satisfaction theory of His atonement. That was developed by Anselm in the 11th century, and for me it is a heresy.
We can maintain our faith or better way of saying it, it has eternal consequences because we have an eternal existance again. It is why all mankind will be raised in the last day immortal and incorruptible, I Cor 15:53-54. There will be a new heaven and a new earth. Mankind will stand in judgement to give an account of their deeds in the last day.

Actually the penalty of sin had to be overcome first. If he left us in our sin, we will still be eternal. We would just suffer our fate because there would be no forgiveness..

The penalty was death, physical death. Man became mortal. To overcome sin, if that is the ONLY thing Christ needed to do, then a resurrection is not required. Only the blood is required.

Where do you get this from? God does not force anything

Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:53-54. Do you think that you can raise yourself from the dead? Do you have a choice in being raised from the dead?

Actually no we do not.

Adam was able to not sin, We are not able to not sin, We still have the old nature in us, and while it is crucified, it still can have power. Adan did not have this issue.

This is true. But Adam sinned anyway. He was beguiled by the Devil. God put Him under a test to see if Adam would obey Him. Adam had a choice, life or death. We are in the same test. God commands us to follow Him. We can choose life or death.

Christ died spiritually on the cross. When he said it was finished, he meant it, it is finished.. He had already dies spiritually, the same way adam died. And suffered that death for us

Could you explain how Christ died spiritually on the Cross. What does spiritual death mean to you?
His work of redemption was finished. He would arise the third day, giving life to the world. He had recreated the world to the purpose God had intended in the beginning. It is why He is called the Savior of the world. I John 4:14, John 3:17, John 4:42

He could have come down off the cross and restored all mankind like he will when he returnes. But he chose to give us hope. He gave up hIs Spirit. We did not kill him, we do not have that power..

If He in fact did come down from the Cross, nothing would have been saved. We all would still be condemned to death eternally. God's creation would simply be a revolving cycle of death. There would be no resurrection.
He assumed our human nature for the express purpose of saving it, give it life, an eternal existance and be able to raise mankind from the dead in the last day.
As well as establish a new heaven and new earth.
We did not kill Him. He willingly gave up His life for the life of the world.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He died both ways,. Spiritual first, broke the relationship. Second the world suffered death, physical death because of that sin.. Dust to Dust. Gen 3:19, It is reinforced in Rom 5:12, Rom 8:20-22.
If Jesus did not come it would not matter what you did. You would simply die as animals do. Dust to dust permanently, There would be no eternity. Christ gave life back to this world. That was His primary work, Rom 5:18 states this, I Cor 15:12-19 says ones faith would be worthless, futile, meaningless if Christ did not rise from the dead. Then Paul summarizes the equation between Adam and Christ. I Cor 15:21-22.

Again, this is in error. If jesus did not come, we would all end up at the great white thrown judgment and cast into hell..

That is ONLY because Christ became Incarnated, became man, assumed our human nature to bring that nature and the world back to life, an eternal existence. God promised this would happen in Gen 3:15. If Christ DID NOT COME, you simply are dissolved by death, dust to dust from whence you came permanently.

Where do you come up with this stuff??

His resurrection was for the life of the world. I would call that our wellbeing. I don't hold to the Satisfaction theory of His atonement. That was developed by Anselm in the 11th century, and for me it is a heresy.
We can maintain our faith or better way of saying it, it has eternal consequences because we have an eternal existance again. It is why all mankind will be raised in the last day immortal and incorruptible, I Cor 15:53-54. There will be a new heaven and a new earth. Mankind will stand in judgement to give an account of their deeds in the last day.

The penalty was death, physical death. Man became mortal. To overcome sin, if that is the ONLY thing Christ needed to do, then a resurrection is not required. Only the blood is required.

Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:53-54. Do you think that you can raise yourself from the dead? Do you have a choice in being raised from the dead?

This is true. But Adam sinned anyway. He was beguiled by the Devil. God put Him under a test to see if Adam would obey Him. Adam had a choice, life or death. We are in the same test. God commands us to follow Him. We can choose life or death.


Could you explain how Christ died spiritually on the Cross. What does spiritual death mean to you?
His work of redemption was finished. He would arise the third day, giving life to the world. He had recreated the world to the purpose God had intended in the beginning. It is why He is called the Savior of the world. I John 4:14, John 3:17, John 4:42

Wrong

I was born dead. I was physically alive

Paul said I was dead, and I was made alive

Jesus said we must be born again (a second time) because we are dead.

again, where have you learned these ideas from?

 

[Rightglory]

You need to know that Jesus was crucified and resurrected in your spirit, not just the written word...that is meaningless unless you are Born Again.

I have no understanding of what you are saying. Jesus's death and resurrection had no direct effect upon being born again. That was the purpose of God restoring life to the world.

You can’t have human faith you must have God given faith to believe and understand the death and resurrection of Jesus, then the Holy Spirit leads us through scripture.

That is not what scripture says. All men have the ability to respond to God. All men will be held accountable with what they did with the knowledge they had available. We live in the last dispensation where the scriptures have been given to us. We believe have faith by hearing or reading.

Gods written word is Spirit and you must be Born Again to understand it.

That would make scripture backwords. We do mission work to the unsaved. They are not born again. They believe what you are preaching, teaching, reading and if they accept the call of the Holy Spirit to repent, they will. Then they should desire to be baptised as Peter told the crowd on Pentecost. When one repents, confesses their sins, they can be baptized and will be given the Holy Spirit,

Being right/ reconciled to God by becoming Born Again has everything to do with the topic..

What has been regenerated is our spirit....Spirit gives birth to spirit..

Which has nothing to do with the topic. You are addressing why Christ reconciled the world. He did it to save His creation from destruction and to have the possibility again to have an eternal relationship with creatures made in His Image,
You are bypassing the whole topic. You use the words, death and resurrection but have no understanding of what they mean in scripture.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have no understanding of what you are saying. Jesus's death and resurrection had no direct effect upon being born again. That was the purpose of God restoring life to the world.

yep. lets just throw John 3 out the winder SMH

 

[Rightglory]

Again, this is in error. If jesus did not come, we would all end up at the great white thrown judgment and cast into hell..

Could you explain to me why Christ needed to die physically and rise from the dead physically if it was not necessary. Why did He need to assume our human nature in other words to be Incarnated, become man. if it was not necessary. A spiritual death has no effect upon our human nature. We became mortal as a consequence of Adam's sin and we remain mortal in this life until we die.
Christ had a relationship with man after Adam and before His coming. Forgiveness of sin was handled through the sacrifice of animals. It was the blood that was necessary, death only. He could have continued this, but alas, scripture says that it would be all futile unless Christ arose from the dead. I Cor 15:12-19. Paul states it twice, so he felt it was important to understand.

Where do you come up with this stuff??

Wrong

I was born dead. I was physically alive

Paul said I was dead, and I was made alive

Jesus said we must be born again (a second time) because we are dead.

again, where have you learned these ideas from?

They are all in scripture. I have given you all the texts to many throughout this thread. The problem you have having is no understanding of the Incarnation of Christ and why He needed to assume our human nature. This "stuff" is historical Christianity. It is an understanding held from apostolic times without change to the present time. It might benefit you to read a small book of Athanasius "On the Incarnation".
The Incarnation of Christ is one of the hallmarks of Christianity, along with the Trinity.

 

[Rightglory]

yep. lets just throw John 3 out the winder SMH

Are you referring to John 3:16-17 If so, it highlights what I have been saying.
By His Incarnation, Christ came to save the world, Save the world from what?: Death, Heb 2:14-16, Heb 2:9. He saved the world, so that all those who believe might have eternal life with Him.
If He did not save the world, any belief, faith would be worthless. I Cor 15:12-19.