The Gospel of Reconciliation

[Rightglory]

More on the word of reconciliation!

The World here spoken of here 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

First of all, the World here are a mixture of jew and Gentile Elect! And a aspect of their reconciliation to God is God not imputing, charging or reckoning their sins, trespasses, iniquities unto them. 20

One incorrect statement and one correct statement.
The world means world, the physical world and everything in it. Col 1:20,
Your second statement you finally got correct. not imputing, means to overlook, or not charge their sins to them.
You are making progress, alleluia.

 

[brightfame52]

One incorrect statement and one correct statement.
The world means world, the physical world and everything in it. Col 1:20,
Your second statement you finally got correct. not imputing, means to overlook, or not charge their sins to them.
You are making progress, alleluia.

the World here are a mixture of jew and Gentile Elect! And a aspect of their reconciliation to God is God not imputing, charging or reckoning their sins, trespasses, iniquities unto them.

 

[Rightglory]

the World here are a mixture of jew and Gentile Elect! And a aspect of their reconciliation to God is God not imputing, charging or reckoning their sins, trespasses, iniquities unto them.

Since you have no knowledge of historical Christianity I will help you with some quotes from St Athanasius' book "On the Incarnation"
(lived 296 - 373 AD)

"We will begin, then, with the creation of the world and with God its Maker, for the first fact that you must grasp is this: the renewal of creation has been wrought by the Self-same Word Who made it in the beginning. There is thus no inconsistency between creation and salvation; for the One Father has employed the same Agent for both works, effecting the salvation of the world through the same Word Who made it in the beginning."
Texts that support this concept, Col 1:20, II Cor 5:18-19, I John 4:14, John 4:42. John 3:17.

"The Word perceived that corruption could not be got rid of otherwise than through death; yet He Himself, as the Word, being immortal and the Father's Son, was such as could not die. For this reason, therefore He assumed a body capable of death, inorder that it, through belonging to the Word Who is above all, might become in dying a sufficient exchange for all, and, itself remaining incorruptible through His indwelling, might thereafter put an end to corruption for all others as well, by the grace of the resurrection. ........For naturally, since the Word of God was above all, when He offered His own temple and bodily instrument as a substit ute for the life of all, He fufilled in death all that was required. Naturally also, through this union of the immortal Son of God with our human nature, all men were clothed with incorruption in the promise of the resurrection. "
Texts supporting the above, Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14-16, II Tim 1:10, I Cor 15:53-54, John 6:39, Rom 5:10, Rom 8:20.

Another text which you misunderstand because you have no understanding of the Incarnation is I Cor 15:21-22. Here is Athanasius again,

"For by the sacrifice of His own body He did two things; He put an end to the law of death which barred our way; and He made a new beginning of life for us, by giving us the hope of the resurrection. By man death has gained its power over men, by the Word made Man death has been destroyed and life raised up anew That is what Paul says, that, true servant of Christ; "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead, Just as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive,"
Other texts supporting this, Rom 5:12, Rom 5:18, Eph 2:1

 

[brightfame52]

Since you have no knowledge of historical Christianity I will help you with some quotes from St Athanasius' book "On the Incarnation"
(lived 296 - 373 AD)

"We will begin, then, with the creation of the world and with God its Maker, for the first fact that you must grasp is this: the renewal of creation has been wrought by the Self-same Word Who made it in the beginning. There is thus no inconsistency between creation and salvation; for the One Father has employed the same Agent for both works, effecting the salvation of the world through the same Word Who made it in the beginning."
Texts that support this concept, Col 1:20, II Cor 5:18-19, I John 4:14, John 4:42. John 3:17.

"The Word perceived that corruption could not be got rid of otherwise than through death; yet He Himself, as the Word, being immortal and the Father's Son, was such as could not die. For this reason, therefore He assumed a body capable of death, inorder that it, through belonging to the Word Who is above all, might become in dying a sufficient exchange for all, and, itself remaining incorruptible through His indwelling, might thereafter put an end to corruption for all others as well, by the grace of the resurrection. ........For naturally, since the Word of God was above all, when He offered His own temple and bodily instrument as a substit ute for the life of all, He fufilled in death all that was required. Naturally also, through this union of the immortal Son of God with our human nature, all men were clothed with incorruption in the promise of the resurrection. "
Texts supporting the above, Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14-16, II Tim 1:10, I Cor 15:53-54, John 6:39, Rom 5:10, Rom 8:20.

Another text which you misunderstand because you have no understanding of the Incarnation is I Cor 15:21-22. Here is Athanasius again,

"For by the sacrifice of His own body He did two things; He put an end to the law of death which barred our way; and He made a new beginning of life for us, by giving us the hope of the resurrection. By man death has gained its power over men, by the Word made Man death has been destroyed and life raised up anew That is what Paul says, that, true servant of Christ; "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead, Just as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive,"
Other texts supporting this, Rom 5:12, Rom 5:18, Eph 2:1

The World here are a mixture of jew and Gentile Elect! And a aspect of their reconciliation to God is God not imputing, charging or reckoning their sins, trespasses, iniquities unto them.

 

[Rightglory]

The World here are a mixture of jew and Gentile Elect! And a aspect of their reconciliation to God is God not imputing, charging or reckoning their sins, trespasses, iniquities unto them.

So you keep saying but you cannot change what the Bible states and what historically it has meant from the beginning.
All you have is an errant understanding that has no basis in scripture. Problaby most, if not all , just your opinion.
I'm interested in knowing how Calvin treats the Incarantion? Could you supply his view of the doctrine?

 

[brightfame52]

So you keep saying but you cannot change what the Bible states and what historically it has meant from the beginning.
All you have is an errant understanding that has no basis in scripture. Problaby most, if not all , just your opinion.
I'm interested in knowing how Calvin treats the Incarantion? Could you supply his view of the doctrine?

The World here are a mixture of jew and Gentile Elect! And a aspect of their reconciliation to God is God not imputing, charging or reckoning their sins, trespasses, iniquities unto them.

 

[brightfame52]

So those Christ hath reconciled, God doesn't impute with sin, even though they sin! They are of these blessed ones spoken of here Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This applies to the world of God's Elect here 2 Cor 5:19!How we know that its Gods Elect? Because Paul calls them the Chosen in his first epistle to the Corinthians 1 Cor 1:27-28

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

 

[brightfame52]

Good News hard to believe

And what might that be ? That sinful men have been reconciled to God while they are enemies! The only condition they must meet is to be, ungodly enemies, opposing God in their minds by wicked works! And still sinners have obtained the Favor of God,Gods Wrath against them for many sins have been appeased. Now how could this be ? Tis because a multitude of Elect sinners, Loved and Chosen by God in Christ before the foundation of the World Ephesians 1:4. Now for them, Christ has discharged all the conditions and qualifications, performances needed for their full reconciliation to God! 20

 

[Rightglory]

Good News hard to believe

And what might that be ? That sinful men have been reconciled to God while they are enemies! The only condition they must meet is to be, ungodly enemies, opposing God in their minds by wicked works! And still sinners have obtained the Favor of God,Gods Wrath against them for many sins have been appeased. Now how could this be ? Tis because a multitude of Elect sinners, Loved and Chosen by God in Christ before the foundation of the World Ephesians 1:4. Now for them, Christ has discharged all the conditions and qualifications, performances needed for their full reconciliation to God! 20

It is hard to believe because no place in scripture will you find such an explanation regarding either reconciliation as you state.
First, Christ's reconciliation of the world was done so that man and the world would once again have an eternal existence. Foremost, death needed to be conquered which Christ did through His Incarnation, death and resurrection. He did it for the world.
It also was not that man needed to be a sinner or condemnation to death, that was the status of mankind since the fall of man.
Secondly, there has been no sin ever appeased by Christ. Every single human being that ever lived will give an account for what he did in his lifetime. Believers, if they have been faithful, will not be condemned because they confessed their sins and were remitted.
God does not appease sin, plain and simple.
His sacrifice for sin did not appease sin, it did not take any sins away. Sins are taken away by confession in the OT as well as in the NT. Christ now sits in the heavens as our High Priest, forgiving sins on the basis of His sacrifice for sin.

 

[brightfame52]

@Rightglory

It is hard to believe because no place in scripture will you find such an explanation regarding either reconciliation as you state.

Absolutely false. Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

These active enemies are reconciled to God by Christs death, so God is at peace with them, not at wrath with them Col 1:20


And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

[Rightglory]

@Rightglory



Absolutely false. Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

These active enemies are reconciled to God by Christs death, so God is at peace with them, not at wrath with them Col 1:20


And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

You have a bizarre understanding of these verses. You quote Col 1:20 which is a text that directly, specifically denies your whole view of particular atonement.
Paul is saying that Christ is the fullness and in His human nature resurrected and ascended. Christ is the created and glorified Head of all creation. Christ ends the alienation between God and creation, bringing creation as a sacrament into a living union with God.
This not about appeasing sinners. It is about Christ's sacrifice for sin, so that in age to come Christ as our High Priest might be able to forgive the sins of those who believe.

 

[brightfame52]

You have a bizarre understanding of these verses. You quote Col 1:20 which is a text that directly, specifically denies your whole view of particular atonement.
Paul is saying that Christ is the fullness and in His human nature resurrected and ascended. Christ is the created and glorified Head of all creation. Christ ends the alienation between God and creation, bringing creation as a sacrament into a living union with God.
This not about appeasing sinners. It is about Christ's sacrifice for sin, so that in age to come Christ as our High Priest might be able to forgive the sins of those who believe.

Good News hard to believe

And what might that be ? That sinful men have been reconciled to God while they are enemies! The only condition they must meet is to be, ungodly enemies, opposing God in their minds by wicked works! And still sinners have obtained the Favor of God,Gods Wrath against them for many sins have been appeased. Now how could this be ? Tis because a multitude of Elect sinners, Loved and Chosen by God in Christ before the foundation of the World Ephesians 1:4. Now for them, Christ has discharged all the conditions and qualifications, performances needed for their full reconciliation to God!

 

[brightfame52]

Be ye reconciled to God !

2 Cor 5:18-20

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Now exactly to whom does the Holy Spirit through Paul here preaching the word of reconciliation, bid "be ye reconciled to God" ?

Well, it most definitely isn't to the unreconciled to God, for its plainly said previously that those to whom he was writing had already been reconciled to God, Vs 18

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

And Vs 19 says

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So those spoken to in Vs 20 are those who already have been reconciled to God by Christ's death, as also says Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So, the Truth being told, the "be ye reconciled to God" imperative in Vs 20 is Gods call by the word of reconciliation, the Gospel of Peace, unto the already reconciled, to now apprehend their reconciliation to God by Faith, for Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, the Truth of God. Those who have been unconditionally reconciled to God by Christ's death, don't know it until God given Faith from the New Birth causes them to realize it or apprehend it.21

 

[Rightglory]

Be ye reconciled to God !

2 Cor 5:18-20

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Now exactly to whom does the Holy Spirit through Paul here preaching the word of reconciliation, bid "be ye reconciled to God" ?

Well, it most definitely isn't to the unreconciled to God, for its plainly said previously that those to whom he was writing had already been reconciled to God, Vs 18

You must have missed a word in vs 19. It says He reconciled the world. That means everything in the world as well as the world itself. You quoted Col 1:20 in another post. It does not say "world" in this text, but it clearly makes no exceptions from it.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

And Vs 19 says

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So those spoken to in Vs 20 are those who already have been reconciled to God by Christ's death, as also says Rom 5:10

Scripture being consistant Rom 5:10 also means ALL sinners, which is everyone that every lived save Christ Himself.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So, the Truth being told, the "be ye reconciled to God" imperative in Vs 20 is Gods call by the word of reconciliation, the Gospel of Peace, unto the already reconciled, to now apprehend their reconciliation to God by Faith, for Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, the Truth of God. Those who have been unconditionally reconciled to God by Christ's death, don't know it until God given Faith from the New Birth causes them to realize it or apprehend it.21

Yes, God is doing the calling, God desires that all would be saved. You are also correct in that it is one's faith that answers that call. It is not by predesitination which you also hold. It is quite clear in this text, the response is up to man.
Faith does NOT come from the New Birth. The New Birth is an event that comes from man's response by faith to repent, confess ones sins and be baptised. Baptism IS THE NEW BIRTH.

 

[brightfame52]

You must have missed a word in vs 19. It says He reconciled the world. That means everything in the world as well as the world itself. You quoted Col 1:20 in another post. It does not say "world" in this text, but it clearly makes no exceptions from it.

Scripture being consistant Rom 5:10 also means ALL sinners, which is everyone that every lived save Christ Himself.

Yes, God is doing the calling, God desires that all would be saved. You are also correct in that it is one's faith that answers that call. It is not by predesitination which you also hold. It is quite clear in this text, the response is up to man.
Faith does NOT come from the New Birth. The New Birth is an event that comes from man's response by faith to repent, confess ones sins and be baptised. Baptism IS THE NEW BIRTH.

You still dont get it.

 

[brightfame52]

Unconditional Reconciliation by the death of Christ!

This is a Grand Truth the enemies of the Gospel can't stand, and they come up many witty inventions to deny it. But what says the scripture Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

People Christ died for, were reconciled to God by Christ death, while they were enemies, unbelievers. If they were believers, they can't be enemies, for believers are never addressed as God's enemies. There were no conditions performed by these sinful enemies of God for them to be reconciled to God. And again these same ones have the Divine Promise that they shall be saved by His life. 21

 

[Rightglory]

What does it mean that Christ reconciled the world? And why?

The doctrine of salvation is rooted in creation. We must know what man is or was in order to understand salvation. The essential understanding is that man was restored from the fall. Restored to fulfill the created purpose of man's existence, to be eternally in union with God.
One of the most basic underlying premises of scripture is that man was created free. That he possesses a rational soul, free from coercion.
Created in His image entails freedom, uniqueness, and is relational. There is no necessity for God to create. He did it at His good pleasure. Man was also called to grow into the likeness of God. It has a dynamism, it is not static. This is confirmed by Paul in Rom 8:29 and Gal 4:19.

As II Pet 1:4 states, we were created to share in the Divine Nature. The redemption of mankind is to restore man's ability and capability to become by grace, to be transformed into the likeness of God. Whether we fulfill our human vocation and live according to God's image or whether we reject God is up to each of us.
This growing into His likeness, being conformed to His Image, being the Mind of Christ, to be perfect as He is perfect, to be partakers of His Divine Nature, this is known as Theosis. This was the created purpose of man. We were created in order to do the works created for us. To bring ourselves and creation back to God as a living sacrifice so that God could be all in all. This is also referred to as salvation, the salvation of individual man. Salvation is the goal, the confirmation of our created purpose.

However, the fall separated man from God. We fell from this lofty abode of having a mutual, loving, obedient, relationship with God. In order to restore this communion and union, Christ needed to restore mankind and creation to the status it was before the fall. Man was unable to restore himself. He could not bring life back from a dead position (being mortal). Thus Christ was Incarnated, took on our fallen human nature in order to redeem that nature, to restore it, reconcile it back to God, so God could once again enter into a communal relationship with His creature, man. Col 1:15-20.

Though man disobeyed and fell, God also provided redemption. God was not willing to allow His creation to simply dissolve back into nothingness after the fall. The Revelation we have in the OT is God's message and the preparation of the coming of the Messiah. God sent His Only Son, Christ, to reconcile the world unto himself, II Cor 5:14-19. Because Christ is the eternal image of the Father, He alone is able to renew the image of God in man. Col 1:15-20; John 5:28-29; Rom 5:12, Rom 5:14-19; Rom 11:32; Rom 8:20, I Cor 15:12-22; II Tim 1:10, Heb 2:9 Heb 2:14-17, Col 1:20, I John 2:2, John 1:29, John 6:39. Texts that corroborate this view are: Acts 24:15; Acts 23:6; I Cor 15:52, Eph 1:10; Eph 2:1-5, John 5:28, John 12: 32, I Tim 4:10, Is 26:19, Dan 12:2, Luke 2:30-32, Rev 20:12-13. They also show the universality of Christ's redemptive work. John 4:42, I John 4:14.

Christ's work on the Cross is solely Grace, man has nothing to do with it, it is totally objective. See: John 1:13, I Pet 1:23, James 1:18, Gal 4:4, Heb 2:11, Rom 9:16.

Christ came to us Incarnate. Heb 2:14, I John 3:8, John 1:14, I John 3:8. Meaning He was both God and Man. It means that the joining of God's perfect Image was to be reunited with the fallen image of man and creation. Thus in summation, man lost the perfect created image in which he was made and lost the ability to commune with God so that man could attain Godlikeness. He lost life.

The Incarnation of our human nature was a necessity in order that Christ could redeem it. Christ became man, consubstantial with man, in order to effect the changes necessary to redeem our natures. Adam's sin resulted in a judgment against man's nature, death. Man became mortal, living in a state of death. Thus all men are born dead, by nature, inherited corruptness. It is from this state of death, mortality, the flesh that sin originates in man I Cor 15:56..

Salvation is the restoration of God's image in man, the uniqueness of each one of us, and our personhood, that of being relational. Christ in His death restored our nature. By His Life we live - we are able to fulfill our personhood. He overcame Death, freed mankind from the bondage to death and sin so that we could have communion again with Him. Mankind is saved from the fall so that man could freely choose to work with God as a created creature which is also called the salvation of one's soul or attaining eternal life.

 

[brightfame52]

Unconditional Reconciliation by the death of Christ!2

This reconciliation to God was unconditional to them Christ died, it was accomplished solely for them by His Death!

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 5:10 teaches limited atonement and here's why. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled[by His Death], we shall be saved by his life.

Those Christ died for are here promised that they shall be saved His [Christ's] Life.

Now are all men without exception going to be saved by His Life ? No, some will be lost. Remember Jesus will say to some Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These Jesus is speaking to are lost people.

So they cannot be of those who shall be saved by His Life in Rom 5:10

So consequently those Christ died for in Rom 5:10 and reconciled them to God while being enemies, they're limited to only some of mankind, Gods Elect. 21

 

[PGS11]

Let me make it simple - you have to start from the beginning and where does it start?With Satan and the forbidden fruit and how he condemned all of humanity to hell for any sin.His victory over God.The fallen angels do not want humans in heaven.Jesus came to restore humanity back to the father and heaven and he did this by dying for every last one of your sins on the cross in the sacrifice he made.You have done absolutely nothing to be saved you cannot earn it you cannot purchase it nor can you raise yourself up. You are saved completely by the grace of God which is offered to all.Interpretation doesn't save you and some will say Satan won and Jesus could only save very few souls.I remind you Jesus was victorious in what he came to do he did not fail as some would claim.That is the message you should be preaching not damnation.