The Gospel of Reconciliation

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CadyandZoe

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Can you start a thread about TULIP?..then we can talk about the others..you can lead the way, as you have understanding of it...it sounds interesting..xx
I started a thread in the Christian Theology Forum, and I am providing a link below. I will post information there as I get time.

 
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Rightglory

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I’m trying to wrap my head around that Jesus died spiritually....if that had happened he would have ceased to be God, who came in the flesh.

What say you @Rightglory ?

I apologise if you feel you have been ganged up on, I played a part in questioning you, I also said that you didn’t understand the Living spiritual rebirth, I take that back.i had no right to make that assumption of you.

To be honest, I’ve read some posts on this thread how members believe they have been Born Again, including myself, some of their posts make no sense to me, as I’m sure mine are the same to them.

Looking to the cross and believing, I think to myself ,how can you do that , well, I guess you can look to the cross and believe in your own strength, which is meaningless imo..so, as you see I’m confused over that saying..yet, I’m not one bit confused over my own “ Living “ Spiritual birth as it was Spirit gives birth to spirit...see how we understand our becoming Born Again so very differently.

If you believe that you are Born Again, then that’s between you and God..I used to get accused of not being Born Again, my Faith is that strong now, the reason being, God chose me for his purpose and plan, he chose to birth my spirit into his, he has also given me heart revelation that I am Born Again of HIS imperishable seed, some don’t even know what that means.......all that matters is the Living word of God........we are all Born Again of the same Spirit....yet as you can see on this thread....everyone understands Gods word so very differently, ...as you know I believe Jesus died and was resurrected....I also believe we must be Born Again by the Living Holy Spirit.then I have been made right/ reconciled back to God, via being baptised in His Holy Spirit, a testifying with our spirit that we are children of God.......some say they believe and are Born Again...much more to it than that....you can initially believe in Jesus as God imo brings us to that place, ..then he must give us the Living Spiritual birth....you can’t believe that Jesus died and was resurrected without his Spirit witnessing that to our spirit....my opinion/ testimony and belief.
In answer to your question regarding spiritual death of Christ. It did not happen.
I do not mind the questions.
I have been on and off boards since early 2000's. There are people who will argue for their view over several other views, all claiming that they are correct. Logic says only one could be correct or none of them are correct. I see very few who change their view. As I stated somewhere in this thread, we are not necessarily saved based on knowledge but how we live our life in accordance to God's will which is outlined in the scriptures. However, there is a danger because of a serious false doctrine one could stray from the Truth. As time moves forward within the Protestant Melieu more and more denominations and outright different religions have been developed. This has never been a problem before in the US since all of them followed the basic Judao-Christian modal of morality. That is changing.
 
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Ritajanice

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In answer to your question regarding spiritual death of Christ. It did not happen.
I do not mind the questions.
I have been on and off boards since early 2000's. There are people who will argue for their view over several other views, all claiming that they are correct. Logic says only one could be correct or none of them are correct. I see very few who change their view. As I stated somewhere in this thread, we are not necessarily saved based on knowledge but how we live our life in accordance to God's will which is outlined in the scriptures. However, there is a danger because of a serious false doctrine one could stray from the Truth. As time moves forward within the Protestant Melieu more and more denominations and outright different religions have been developed. This has never been a problem before in the US since all of them followed the basic Judao-Christian modal of morality. That is changing.
Thank you for that information.

I agree about Christ Spiritual death it did not happen..

Good to see you back,xxx
 

Rightglory

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God is the creator of everything, not just somethings.
Wow, your theology just amazes me. So you make God the creator of sin, which is not a thing, but an act or an ommision of an act.
God did not create Adam or this creation mortal. Why would God create something to be eternal, call it good, then also create the means to destroy His own creation.
Adam brought sin into the world. Death was already here.
scripture disagrees with you here also. Adam sinned but did not bring sin into the world per se. The consequence of his was death, mortality which is described in Gen 3:19. Since then all men sin through our mortal nature. I Cor 15:56. We all will die for the sake of ridding this body of sin. We will all be raised immortal because Christ arose from the grave with our human nature.
Romans 8:18-21
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Adam didn't subject the creation to futility. God did. He subjected his creation to futility "in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its slavery to corruption." Futility, corruption, and death were built into creation from the very beginning.
Quite the contrary. God in His foreknowledge knew Adam would sin and had a plan to correct his error. Satan controls the power of death, thus sin and is the ruler of this world. What it means is that God permitted Adam to suffer mortality as well as the earth since man was created from the earth. God's plan was to have His Son, come into this world at an appointed time as Incarnate, meaning Christ divine nature would assume the human nature of man through the Virgin Mary. Because it was this human nature that died and was resurrected, so were mankind and the universe given eternal existence again. Christ in His human nature is consubtantial with the universe and man who was created from that universe. That is what the latter part of your citation is stating.
If irt was built into creation, then there would be no need for God to punish sin since, as you say, it was built into creation. There would be no need to correct the fact that we die.
I, for one, outside of scripture disagreeing with you, why would God create something then also built its destruction into it and call it good.

God condemns those who do not repent of their sins.
agreed
Death is already part of our physical reality. It was already here when we were born. And it will be here after we die. The "sting" of death is sin, which -- if not forgiven -- will result in permanent nonexistence.
Yes, death is part of our reality and will be as long as the earth remains, as well as from the beginning. Christ did not change our mortal nature of this life, nor that of creation. He wanted to restore His creation back to an eternal existence where sin will no longer be a factor. He was not willing to permit His creation, let alone a creature that bore His Image to be dissolved by death. I Cor 15:56 which you quoted is the reason why we sin so easily and so much. God permitted sin to remain in order to provide a test to one's love for Him. A love willing to love freely and to follow Him. Which is why He provided sacrifice for sin so that those IN Christ can seek forgiveness of their sins and remain in fellowship with Him.
Nothing in this universe including every single human being will never be distroyed. Christ reconciled the world to God for the sole purpose of giving it an eternal existance again. He renewed creation, often called the recapitulation of the world.
Hell, if it exists, is only a temporary condition. The Lake of Fire is permanent.
Neither is permanent. every single person will live eternally. Scripture never explains where those who were condemned for their sin will actually dwell. All we know that God will be wherever that might be, because even as immortal beings, we achieved that status by grace, created. So to continue to uphold the new heaven and new earth, God will still be the source of divine energy.
God meant creation was "good: suitable for the story he wants to tell." Contrary to our idiom, "good" doesn't mean "perfect". Remember, God speaks things into existence. When he created light it says, "God said 'Let there be light.'" The creation is a story that God is telling and everything that exists and everything that happens serves his story.
OK
You misunderstand. Paul isn't suggesting that the Devil's power is in his ability to cause death. The power of the devil is the FEAR of death. The devil leverages our fear against us.
No, it says he has the power of death and to release those who had the fear of death were subject to bondage. Correct reading leads to correct understanding.
The devil caused many people to receive a deadly injection. Those who took it feared they would die from an illness.

Those in hell will be judged and then tossed into the Lake of Fire to be destroyed.

You misunderstand. God is not going to "restore" people back to an eternal existence. Those who are worthy to attain to the coming age will not be restored, they will be resurrected and glorified. And what is glorification? To be glorified is to be as Jesus was, good, true, righteous, kind, generous, and without sin.
God is love. No place in scripture does it say God will destroy any of His creatures or the universe. Rev 21, starts out with "He will make all things new. That is precisely what He did by His resurrection which is enacted in the eschotan.
You don't understand. Death is still with us today. Death will not be defeated until the resurrection when God will raise the "pleroma" from the dead and grant them a place in the coming age and glorify them to be like their master Jesus Christ.
I have no idea where you would find this in scripture?
Yes, it does. You seem to have missed the point. Those who survive into the coming age are those "whom you (the Father) have given me."
Which is every single human being. Col 1:20 is general, all things were reconciled. I Cor 15:53-54, all the dead, not some of the dead will be raised. Paul indicates in Rom 2:8f, all will stand before God and be judged for their deeds. Rev 20:11-13. John 6:39-- that all He has given me, I should lose nothing but should raise IT up at the last day. Vs 40 a distinction. that everyone who sees and believes may have everlasting life and raise him up AT THE LAST DAY.
 

Rightglory

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No. The Apostles teach us about glorification, which is a gift of God. Death is not our entrance into Glorification. Rather, grace is our entrance into glorification, through trust, forgiveness, and reconciliation.
Your response has nothing to do with my statement. You don't cite any scripture to show what you say would correct what I stated.
I understand your theology and I know from where it comes.
Where do you think it comes from?
No. Being raised from the dead is a future hope, not a current reality.
Never stated nor implied it was a current reality.
No, only all men "in Christ
If the context is I Cor 15:21-22 it is every single human being. At least the ones that bear a human nature that Christ assumed by His Incarnation.
No, hell is tossed into the Lake of Fire.
Yes, God will renew all things, He will declare a new heaven and a new earth. Rev 21.
Where those who were condemned will dwell scripture is silent. But we know that they will not be destroyed.
No, it means non-existence.
since nothing will be destroyed, God is not in the destruction business. He is in the renewal business.
 

CadyandZoe

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Wow, your theology just amazes me.
God creates everything:

John 1:3
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Yes, God created everything.

So you make God the creator of sin, which is not a thing, but an act or an ommision of an act.
If sin came into being, according to John, God was the author.
God did not create Adam or this creation mortal. Why would God create something to be eternal, call it good, then also create the means to destroy His own creation.
God didn't create anything to be eternal.
Quite the contrary. God in His foreknowledge knew Adam would sin and had a plan to correct his error.
So, God had foreknowledge of evil and did nothing about it? What does it say about a person who has foreknowledge of a murder and does nothing to prevent it? The God of your imagination is more evil than the one you are trying to protect with your philosophical speculation.

Satan controls the power of death, thus sin and is the ruler of this world.
No, Satan does not have control over death. Read the story of Job.
What it means is that God permitted Adam to suffer mortality
One does not suffer mortality. Either one is mortal or they are not mortal. If one is mortal, he suffers death.

as well as the earth since man was created from the earth. God's plan was to have His Son, come into this world at an appointed time as Incarnate, meaning Christ divine nature would assume the human nature of man through the Virgin Mary. Because it was this human nature that died and was resurrected, so were mankind and the universe given eternal existence again.
You said this already, but it doesn't square with scripture.
I, for one, outside of scripture disagreeing with you, why would God create something then also built its destruction into it and call it good.
Creation serves a narrative purpose. Why does an author create a character, committing a crime, and subsequently being put into jail? That is the story the author wants to tell, illustrating that crime doesn't pay.
He wanted to restore His creation back to an eternal existence where sin will no longer be a factor.
Creation never had an eternal existence.
Christ reconciled the world to God
No, God was reconciling the world to himself through Jesus Christ. But reconciliation involves two parties, 1) the offender and 2) the offended. Not every offender is reconciled to God.
He renewed creation, often called the recapitulation of the world.
The creation is not yet been renewed.
Neither is permanent. every single person will live eternally.
No. In a figurative sense, eternity is like a train moving ahead in time. Only those who board the train will live eternally. Not everyone boards the train.
Scripture never explains where those who were condemned for their sin will actually dwell.
They won't dwell anywhere. They are destroyed in the Lake of Fire.
No, it says he has the power of death and to release those who had the fear of death were subject to bondage. Correct reading leads to correct understanding.
Don't confuse the Devil with Jesus Christ. The devil uses the power of death to control us if we let him. But Jesus Christ is the one who can free us from that fear.
God is love. No place in scripture does it say God will destroy any of His creatures or the universe.
Yes, it does. Only those whom the Father has given to the son will survive into eternity. The rest will be destroyed.
I have no idea where you would find this in scripture?
The idea of the "pleroma" (translated as "fulness") is found primarily in the epistles of Ephesians and Colossians. In his epistle to the Ephesians, Paul indicates that the Father orchestrated history in order to bring all believers throughout time into his household under the leadership of Jesus Christ. Paul refers to the entire group of all believers who ever existed throughout time as "the pleroma: the fulness. " Only these people have the earnest of the Spirit and look forward to the inheritance of "the adoption as sons", which is eternal life - the blessing of Abraham.
Which is every single human being. Col 1:20 is general, all things were reconciled.
Nope. First of all, things are not reconciled. Second, Paul is talking about those who enter the kingdom of light.
I Cor 15:53-54, all the dead, not some of the dead will be raised.
Nope, only those "in Christ" will be raised.
Paul indicates in Rom 2:8f, all will stand before God and be judged for their deeds.
Yes, all will be judged.
Rev 20:11-13. John 6:39-- that all He has given me, I should lose nothing but should raise IT up at the last day. Vs 40 a distinction. that everyone who sees and believes may have everlasting life and raise him up AT THE LAST DAY.
The only ones who will be raised up on the last day are those whom the Father gave to Jesus. He does not give everyone to Jesus. Otherwise, there would be no reason to make such a distinction.
 

CadyandZoe

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Your response has nothing to do with my statement. You don't cite any scripture to show what you say would correct what I stated.
You need to follow the conversation closer.
I said, "People die all the time."
You: "Yes, for the purpose of ridding our mortal natures of sin. So they can be raised immortal.
Me: No. The Apostles teach us about glorification, which is a gift of God. Death is not our entrance into Glorification. Rather, grace is our entrance into glorification, through trust, forgiveness, and reconciliation.

You claimed that the purpose of death was to rid our mortal natures of sin. This isn't true and not taught in scripture.
Where do you think it comes from?

Never stated nor implied it was a current reality.
You said that "everyone was raised by His Spirit from the dead." For some reason you don't seem able to make contact with the way things really are. No one is raised from the dead. Look around you.
If the context is I Cor 15:21-22 it is every single human being. At least the ones that bear a human nature that Christ assumed by His Incarnation.
No. You need to follow Paul's argument, which are structured in a logical progression of ideas

1 Corinthians 15:20-24
But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

in Adam . . . in Christ . . .
This is NOT an equation as you suppose. Paul has developed a contrast: those who are "in Christ" are in contradistinction with those "in Adam." Paul is highlighting the difference between two groups of people. Everyone is "in Adam", but not everyone is "in Christ" as we see below.

after that those who are Christ's at His coming . . .
The only people who will be resurrected and advance into eternity are those who belong to Christ. The only ones who belong to Christ are those who are born again, believe in Jesus Christ, and commit themselves to obedience and service of Christ.
 

Rightglory

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You need to follow the conversation closer.
I said, "People die all the time."
You: "Yes, for the purpose of ridding our mortal natures of sin. So they can be raised immortal.
Me: No. The Apostles teach us about glorification, which is a gift of God. Death is not our entrance into Glorification. Rather, grace is our entrance into glorification, through trust, forgiveness, and reconciliation.

You claimed that the purpose of death was to rid our mortal natures of sin. This isn't true and not taught in scripture.

You said that "everyone was raised by His Spirit from the dead." For some reason you don't seem able to make contact with the way things really are. No one is raised from the dead. Look around you.

No. You need to follow Paul's argument, which are structured in a logical progression of ideas

1 Corinthians 15:20-24
But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

in Adam . . . in Christ . . .
This is NOT an equation as you suppose. Paul has developed a contrast: those who are "in Christ" are in contradistinction with those "in Adam." Paul is highlighting the difference between two groups of people. Everyone is "in Adam", but not everyone is "in Christ" as we see below.

after that those who are Christ's at His coming . . .
The only people who will be resurrected and advance into eternity are those who belong to Christ. The only ones who belong to Christ are those who are born again, believe in Jesus Christ, and commit themselves to obedience and service of Christ.
At least you admitted it is simply your opinion. None of your responses have ever been the Gospel Truth. You deny the creation story as scripture states. You have an unscriptural concept of the fall of man. You have no idea how God saved the world from destruction, in fact you think destruction was part of His will. You apparently hold to limited atonement which is an impossibility of scripture in light of the Incarnation of Christ. You also deny the eternality of those condemned to the second death.
Your views are not even consistent within your own explanations.

I'll stick to the Truth as the Holy Spirit gave to the Apostles once given, Jude 3.
A gospel that has been believed, taught the same, by Christians for 2000 years unchanged. That is the Truth that the Holy Spirit has guarded and guided through His Body the Church. I Tim 3:15.
 

CadyandZoe

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At least you admitted it is simply your opinion. None of your responses have ever been the Gospel Truth. You deny the creation story as scripture states. You have an unscriptural concept of the fall of man. You have no idea how God saved the world from destruction, in fact you think destruction was part of His will. You apparently hold to limited atonement which is an impossibility of scripture in light of the Incarnation of Christ. You also deny the eternality of those condemned to the second death.
Your views are not even consistent within your own explanations.

I'll stick to the Truth as the Holy Spirit gave to the Apostles once given, Jude 3.
A gospel that has been believed, taught the same, by Christians for 2000 years unchanged. That is the Truth that the Holy Spirit has guarded and guided through His Body the Church. I Tim 3:15.
I think you received more than what the Apostles taught. I suspect you have been reading the ECF's who taught all kinds of weird and erroneous stuff. I recommend that you limit your scope of study to the New Testament.
 

brightfame52

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The Mystery of Reconciliation ! 4

Another Mystery about biblical reconciliation by the death of Christ, which the natural mind cant understand, it is the fact, that those sinners Christ died for, and reconciled to God, even while they are being enemies, they have peace with God, God is at peace with them. Col 1:19-21

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;


20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

God has been reconciled and peace restored to all sinners Christ shed His Blood for, even when they are enemies !

The Blood of His Cross accomplished this for them, not anything they did or will do !

And we know this isn't true of all mankind since many are under Gods Wrath Jn 3:36 ; Rom 1:18, which can only mean Christ's Blood was not shed for them ! 15
 

Rightglory

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I think you received more than what the Apostles taught. I suspect you have been reading the ECF's who taught all kinds of weird and erroneous stuff. I recommend that you limit your scope of study to the New Testament.
Historically, all false teachings, until the Protestant Reformation, came from within the Church. Paul warned the early Church to watch for false teachers, including those of his day. This is why it is very easy to spot false teachings because they have never been believed from the beginning. Also, all false teachings were developed by individuals and all of them became heretics or their teachings. The Holy Spirit does not add to what was once given.
You are free to attempt to interpret doctrine from scripture. It has not worked out very well over the last 500 years in the protestant melieu. The number of denominations are in the thousands all developed by individuals who thought they had the next best doctrine. What is even more amazing, every single idea has been developed from scripture. Hardly something the Holy Spirit would do, lead astray.
I'll stick to the gospel once given to the saints.
 

CadyandZoe

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Historically, all false teachings, until the Protestant Reformation, came from within the Church. Paul warned the early Church to watch for false teachers, including those of his day. This is why it is very easy to spot false teachings because they have never been believed from the beginning. Also, all false teachings were developed by individuals and all of them became heretics or their teachings. The Holy Spirit does not add to what was once given.
You are free to attempt to interpret doctrine from scripture. It has not worked out very well over the last 500 years in the protestant melieu. The number of denominations are in the thousands all developed by individuals who thought they had the next best doctrine. What is even more amazing, every single idea has been developed from scripture. Hardly something the Holy Spirit would do, lead astray.
I'll stick to the gospel once given to the saints.
Your evaluation has a flaw. You paint all Bible students with a broad brush and with the color of those who attempted to establish "Christian Empires".
 

brightfame52

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Reconciled to Gods Law also !

Not only are the elect by Christ's death reconciled to God while being enemies, sinners, ungodly Rom 5:10, but they are reconciled to Gods Law as well. It , the Law of God cannot condemn them, it cannot lay any charge against them, in fact they are dead to the law, by Christ's death, the body of Christ Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Now why is this so ? Because of the full satisfaction paid to it by the Cross of Christ. You see, all those charges the law did accuse them of, they were guilty of, had been nailed to the Cross, Col 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Wherefore they became dead to the Law by the Body of Christ, reconciled to it, at peace with it and God ! And this even still while being enemies in our minds against God ! The natural mind of man cannot receive this tremendous truth of the Gospel of God ! 15
 

brightfame52

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The reconciliation is complete !


The reconciled world of 2 Cor 5:19 and Rom 5:10 by the death of Christ, cannot be under any circumstances, not one member of it, under the wrath of God, for reconciliation with God is also peace with God, meaning that through Christ's finished work, God is at peace with the reconciled world through the blood of Christ Col 1:19-22

For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

In the body of his flesh through death
, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Now the word for reconcile here vs 21,22 is apokatallassó and means nothing short of:

to reconcile completely !!! This is not a partial or one sided reconciliation as the false teachers tell us, falsifying by saying , God has done His part through Christ to reconcile man, but now its up to man to do his part by accepting it or believing it before it can be a complete reconciliation both ways. Again that's falsifying not found in scripture. This satanic teaching undermines and sabotages the complete sufficiency and efficiency of the death of Christ to have successfully reconciled both parties to one another, that is God to His Elect, and His Elect to God. In fact the word reconcile here goes on to mean: to bring back into harmony, to draw to Himself/Oneself so that the reconciled one becomes devoted to God.

However false teachers deny this, because they are unable to receive the scriptural teaching of being reconciled to God by the death of Christ, even while being enemies Rom 5:10 !
 

JBO

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The reconciliation is complete !


The reconciled world of 2 Cor 5:19 and Rom 5:10 by the death of Christ, cannot be under any circumstances, not one member of it, under the wrath of God, for reconciliation with God is also peace with God, meaning that through Christ's finished work, God is at peace with the reconciled world through the blood of Christ Col 1:19-22

For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

In the body of his flesh through death
, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Now the word for reconcile here vs 21,22 is apokatallassó and means nothing short of:

to reconcile completely !!! This is not a partial or one sided reconciliation as the false teachers tell us, falsifying by saying , God has done His part through Christ to reconcile man, but now its up to man to do his part by accepting it or believing it before it can be a complete reconciliation both ways. Again that's falsifying not found in scripture. This satanic teaching undermines and sabotages the complete sufficiency and efficiency of the death of Christ to have successfully reconciled both parties to one another, that is God to His Elect, and His Elect to God. In fact the word reconcile here goes on to mean: to bring back into harmony, to draw to Himself/Oneself so that the reconciled one becomes devoted to God.

However false teachers deny this, because they are unable to receive the scriptural teaching of being reconciled to God by the death of Christ, even while being enemies Rom 5:10 !
You are correct, it is not a partial or one sided reconciliation. It is complete. It is for the whole world. The cross of Jesus was sufficient to reconcile every last human being on this planet. But it is conditioned upon believing in God. You cite 2 Corinthians 5:19 and completely overlook or rather reject 2 Corinthians 5:20 which says, "Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."

If there were the unconditional election that you proclaim, there would be no need for God to make any appeal to be reconciled to God. There is indeed God's part and our part.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Grace is God's part, faith is our part. The gift is being saved by God's part through our part. It is in receiving that gift that we become one of the elect. And that is what was foreknown by God from before creation. It is by faith, i.e., by believing in God, that we are reconciled to God.
 

brightfame52

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The reconciliation is complete !2

Now how was this accomplished ? The text tells us Col 1:20

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

It was solely by /through the blood of His Cross, or His Death, the same Death of Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death or Blood of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And by it [His Death/Blood] He made Peace with God. And once again, lets now look at the word peace, its the greek word eirénopoios and means:

I make peace, reconcile.

to make peace, establish harmony

Now this could not be True if both parties have not been reconciled to one another ! It establishes a harmony between God and men. Now it doesnt begin with the men in and of themselves, but of men as they are represented in Christ their Head. Its just like in the beginning man had a harmony with God in Adam, their federal covenant head at creation, before the transgression, so likewise, those men in Christ, whom He represented in His death, burial, and resurrection, they now have a harmony with God, and vice versa because of the harmony that exist between Christ their Head and God !. Now all men Christ represented have no less harmony with God as man had with God before the fall in Adam ! Yes before the fall God was reconciled to Adam and men in him, and Adam and men in him reconciled to God.15
 

brightfame52

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You are correct, it is not a partial or one sided reconciliation. It is complete. It is for the whole world. The cross of Jesus was sufficient to reconcile every last human being on this planet. But it is conditioned upon believing in God. You cite 2 Corinthians 5:19 and completely overlook or rather reject 2 Corinthians 5:20 which says, "Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."

If there were the unconditional election that you proclaim, there would be no need for God to make any appeal to be reconciled to God. There is indeed God's part and our part.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Grace is God's part, faith is our part. The gift is being saved by God's part through our part. It is in receiving that gift that we become one of the elect. And that is what was foreknown by God from before creation. It is by faith, i.e., by believing in God, that we are reconciled to God.
You are denying reconciliation if you say its conditioned on believing, since the reconciliation was completed by Christs Death while the reconciled were enemies/unbelievers Per Rom 5:10'So it had nothing to do with anyone believing
 

JBO

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You are denying reconciliation if you say its conditioned on believing, since the reconciliation was completed by Christs Death while the reconciled were enemies/unbelievers Per Rom 5:10'So it had nothing to do with anyone believing
Rom 4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."

Rom 4:22 That is why his (i.e., Abraham's) faith was "counted to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:23 But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone,
Rom 4:24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,

Rom 4:25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Rom 5:11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Delivered up for our trespasses is reconciliation. Clearly you are terribly confused in your view of reconciliation.
 

brightfame52

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Rom 4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."

Rom 4:22 That is why his (i.e., Abraham's) faith was "counted to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:23 But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone,
Rom 4:24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,

Rom 4:25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Rom 5:11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Delivered up for our trespasses is reconciliation. Clearly you are terribly confused in your view of reconciliation.
Still you have a problem:

You are denying reconciliation if you say its conditioned on believing, since the reconciliation was completed by Christs Death while the reconciled were enemies/unbelievers Per Rom 5:10'So it had nothing to do with anyone believing
 

JBO

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Still you have a problem:

You are denying reconciliation if you say its conditioned on believing, since the reconciliation was completed by Christs Death while the reconciled were enemies/unbelievers Per Rom 5:10'So it had nothing to do with anyone believing
Rom 5:11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.