The gospel was preached even to those who are DEAD

[Ritajanice]

Yes, I said it. Genesis teaches us that our existence as human beings is the result of a unified spirit and body. (Genesis 2:7)

Thank you for confirming @CadyandZoe .....I agree.

 

[JunChosen]

What did Peter mean by "spirits in prison"?

First we must separate 1 Peter 3:18 which speaks of the cross from 1 Peter 3:19 which does NOT speak about the cross.

We read in Luke 4:18: "The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor (in spirits" he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, (at one time we were under Satan and sin), and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"

Furthermore, Ephesians 4:8-9 reads:
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men (salvation).
9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? (is a figure of speech)
Verse 9 above means that Christ met us in the lower parts of the earth. In principle, we are all in hell, before we were saved and a slave of sin.

Deuteronomy 5:6 trads:
I [am] the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

FAQ: How would the spirit of Christ go about preaching to folks back then?

REPLY: By means of Noah's sermons. (2Pet 2:5)

Not quite.

"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost."

To God Be The Glory

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Can you quote some Bible verses that support the idea of a spiritual death?

Yes, read what God told Adam and Eve... they died spiritually and became separated from God!

God's has decreed that that will result in our eternal death

Yes... and you know spiritual death leads to being separated from God both now and eternally if they die in that condition.

In other words, as soon as they ate the fruit they started to die

No, the moment that ate the fruit... they because separated from God which is spiritual death

The death that God referred to was a bodily death

Spiritual death leads to all forms of death being true for that person.

The whole reason why we have to get born again is because all have sinned... and became separated from God.

There is far more to death than just physical death... when Christians sin, it's not business as usual with them and the Lord.

They must forsake and confess their sin before they can be in right standing with God.

Gal 6:7,8 tells us that if we sow to the flesh (sin) we shall of the flesh reap corruption which is separation from God as in no longer being in right standing with him.

 

[keithr]

Yes, read what God told Adam and Eve... they died spiritually and became separated from God!

That is not quoting Bible verses!

No, the moment that ate the fruit... they because separated from God which is spiritual death

You've still not quoted any Scripture that indicates that death is spiritual death rather than physical, or that spiritual death (or physical death) is "separation from God".

Gal 6:7,8 tells us that if we sow to the flesh (sin) we shall of the flesh reap corruption which is separation from God as in no longer being in right standing with him.

Let me quote those verses for you - Galatians 6:7-8 (WEB):

(7) Don’t be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.​

(8) For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.​

It says nothing about "separation from God". You're incorrectly interpreting "reap corruption" as "separation from God", and incorrectly interpreting "separation from God" as "no longer being in right standing with" God.

Mankind has not been "separated from God". He has not abandoned us but He has been continuously working to help us and to restore us to perfection so that we can live eternally. John 3:16 (WEB):

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.​

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 (WEB):

(18) But all things are of God, who reconciled us to himself through Jesus Christ, and gave to us the ministry of reconciliation;​

(19) namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and having committed to us the word of reconciliation.​

God has been working to restore a close, friendly relationship with us (reconciliation). Even when we are in hell (grave) we are not separated from God - Psalms 139:8 (WEB):

(8) If I ascend up into heaven, you are there. If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, you are there!​

The only way to be "separated" from God is if we do not exist at all - to perish in the second death:

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB):

(14) Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.​

(15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.​

Revelation 21:4 (WEB):

(4) He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away.”​

Just as death being symbolically thrown into a lake of fire (to destroy it) means that death will no longer exist, so also any living being dying the second death will no longer exist (body and soul/spirit having been destroyed) - only then you are "separated" from God!

 

[St. SteVen]

I’m of the belief that the Gospel is indeed preached to the dead. Simple as that. They get the chance to hear of Him, same as the people that heard while alive. Everyone gets the chance to reject or accept Christ.

This idea that someone would "reject" Christ when meeting Him in the afterlife seems madness to me.
It's one thing to be agnostic, or even atheist here when faith is required, but who would reject Christ when meeting him face to face?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Who are these dead people?

These dead people refer to:

1. The deceased patriarchs and the Old Testament saints. (Papists' Limbus)
2. The people who died in Noah's flood long ago.
3. Those who are alive but spiritually dead. (Amplified Bible)
4. The good Christians who died as martyrs.
5. All the dead and all will head to heaven eventually. (Origen, universal salvation)
6. Some dead people at the time. Some to heaven, others to hell.
7. A selected (or elected) group of dead people who never heard of the gospel when alive but would believe if they heard it.

I think options 6 and 7 are most likely.

Interesting topic, thanks.

The text says #2 is the right answer, as I understand it. (1 Peter 3:20)
But I don;t think is was limited to that. I think everyone from Adam until Jesus death was there.
So, I agree with #5.
Here are my notes on the subject.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

Answer: the realm of the dead

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.” 9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

This idea that someone would "reject" Christ when meeting Him in the afterlife seems madness to me.
It's one thing to be agnostic, or even atheist here when faith is required, but who would reject Christ when meeting him face to face?

/

He was rejected by most even when He walked and lived and taught among them. And even heavenly angels fell, who had been with God in heaven.

 

[St. SteVen]

I believe it is #2.

Right.
That's what the text says.
But it seems to be a literary set-up for the comment about the Flood comparison.
So, I don't think it was limited to that group. Only intended as a time frame in general. IMHO

I think this verse gives us the answer, "the imprisoned spirits". Everyone held in Hades at the time.
All the way back to Adam.

1 Peter 3:19
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—

/

 

[CadyandZoe]

Thank you for confirming @CadyandZoe .....I agree.

I enjoy your posts. Thank you too.

I would like to sort things out a bit. As you are aware, we are talking about the following passage.

1 Peter 3:18-20

18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.​

Here, Peter intends to draw an analogy between baptism and Noah's flood. The fact that eight persons were brought safely through the water is analogous to our being saved by baptism. Our focus today is on verse 19, which some claim supports the idea that when Christ died, he went to hell to preach the good news to those "in prison." This is not the correct interpretation of what Peter said. IMHO

Peter seems fascinated with the flood event because he mentions it again in his second epistle.

2 Peter 3:4-5

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly . . .​

Peter refers to Noah as a "preacher of righteousness" in this passage. He also mentions that God did not spare the ancient world, and that angels were committed to pits of darkness. According to this epistle, it was Noah - not Jesus - who made a proclamation to the spirits that are now held in pits of darkness reserved for judgment.

There is a debate about who did the preaching and when it took place. Some people argue that Jesus preached during the three days and nights that he was in the tomb. However, according to Peter, Noah preached during a time of God's patience while he was waiting for Noah to finish constructing the ark (as mentioned in 1 Peter 3:20). After carefully examining these two passages, it is concluded that it was Noah who preached to those in prison while God waited for him to complete construction on the ark, not Jesus.

I think I can show you something interesting from the Greek text also, but let me leave it hear for how.

Have a Happy New Year, and may the Lord richly bless you in the coming year.

 

[St. SteVen]

He was rejected by most even when He walked and lived and taught among them. And even heavenly angels fell, who had been with God in heaven.

That's a good point. BUT... !!!
I don't think that argument holds water.
In the afterlife we will have a clarity that we do not have here on earth.

Something happened at the Fall that still affects us today, but I believe will NOT affect us in the afterlife.

At the end of Genesis chapter two, humankind was "naked and unashamed".
After eating the forbidden fruit A&E were literally out of their minds!
Reason being, they had allowed entrance of the enemy into their minds.

Who told Adam that he was naked?

This song says it best?

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522%2Fdevil-talkin
Title: Devil Talkin'
Track Time: 02:44 / BPM: 76

VS 1
"Ain't nobody watching"
Dat's dat devil dare talkin'
"Only the good die young."
Dat's dat devil dare talkin'
"You only go around once."
Dat's dat devil dare talkin'
"Better grab all the gusto."
Dat's dat devil dare talkin'

CHORUS 1 (spoken like Rap/Hip-hop)
There's an unanswered question - in Genesis three
I'll have to say - it's always intrigued me.
Adam said he hid - 'cause he was naked
God asked - "Who told you that you were naked?"
- Who indeed?

VS 2
"Go on, you deserve it."
Dat's dat devil dare talkin'
"I'll try anything once."
Dat's dat devil dare talkin'
"It's just experimenting."
Dat's dat devil dare talkin'
"Whatever gets you through the night."
Dat's dat devil dare talkin'

CHORUS 2 (spoken like Rap/Hip-hop)
That voice in your head - is messin' with you
If you listen to it - you'll be a fool
Learn to discern - right from wrong
You have to resist - if you want to be strong
- Heed the word!

MOSTLY INSTRUMENTAL ENDING
Dat's dat devil dare talkin' (repeat)
Who indeed? (repeat)
Heed the word! (repeat)

© Steve Lundgren 2019

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Definitely not. To reject the gospel of Christ until death is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which is the only unpardonable sin.
(To blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to continually reject His testimony about Jesus)

Another common misconception.
Jesus told us what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was.
Attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan.
They claimed that he was casting out demons by Beelzebub.

Granted, it's a difficult passage. But Bible commentators and theologians have
strayed FAR from the text to answer the question that was found right there. IMHO

/

 

[amigo de christo]

I’m of the belief that the Gospel is indeed preached to the dead. Simple as that. They get the chance to hear of Him, same as the people that heard while alive. Everyone gets the chance to reject or accept Christ.

If anyone heard the gospel , IN this LIFE and yet rejected , no second chance .
If we take note the gospel was preached to the dead who had died BEFORE JESUS CAME , not to those who heard and yet rejected .
Jesus is very plain in HIS words, If one hears and rejects , Shake the dust off your feet as a testmony against them or that city
IT will be ever worse for them than ever it was for even SODOM . so lets not go jumping on the all inclusive false hope train ..............

 

[amigo de christo]

He was rejected by most even when He walked and lived and taught among them. And even heavenly angels fell, who had been with God in heaven.

JESUS made it very clear . He who hears and believes not will be damned .
If we take note we notice also that peter says he went unto the spirits in prison in noahs day etc
WE all know they had never heard the gospel . So it seems he preached it unto them .
But mark my words, we have men with agendas in these final hours .
Their goal is to take away the very dire need to have BeLIEVED on JESUS CHRIST and replace it with another kind of false hope .
Its real simple really.
WHY not we simply preach the dire need to BELIEVE ON JESUS and to warn those who reject of the damnation that awaits all who do so .
I mean KEEP it real simple and we never offer up false hope .
We speak what we know and what we know is
IF we watch JESUS and how the apostels did things we see real easy
THE MESSAGE WAS DIRE ye must BELEIVE ON HIM and those who rejected WOULD be damned . WE GOTTA KEEP IT SIMPLE

 

[Lizbeth]

In the afterlife we will have a clarity that we do not have here on earth.

You mean clarity like the rich man who was in hell and realized his wrong, too late unfortunately.....and who Abraham told that even if someone rose from the dead they will not believe....? There is more to this than simply "informing" the carnal mind. Even the devils are well informed, for all the good it does them. There is something deeply SPIRITUAL going on....it's about FAITH not "information"......"information" is on the carnal earthly fleshly level of Tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil. Remember the Israelites in the wilderness who even after experiencing and witnessing the amazing miracles that God did, later on kind of "forgot" them and didn't have FAITH to trust Him when they encountered problems which tested their faith. Salvation, ie, eternal life is received by FAITH/SPIRIT, not by merely being informed.

 

[Lizbeth]

Who told Adam that he was naked?

Yes, they had opened the door through disobedience, which allowed a wrong SPIRIT into their being. AKA the devil....god of this world, spirit of the world. This is what happened to all of us....we sinned and likewise stepped into the devil's snare. Only through FAITH and the HOLY SPIRIT can we be set free from it.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
In the afterlife we will have a clarity that we do not have here on earth.

You mean clarity like the rich man who was in hell and realized his wrong, too late unfortunately.....and who Abraham told that even if someone rose from the dead they will not believe....? There is more to this than simply "informing" the carnal mind. Even the devils are well informed, for all the good it does them. There is something deeply SPIRITUAL going on....it's about FAITH not "information"......"information" is on the carnal earthly fleshly level of Tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil. Remember the Israelites in the wilderness who even after experiencing and witnessing the amazing miracles that God did, later on kind of "forgot" them and didn't have FAITH to trust Him when they encountered problems which tested their faith. Salvation, ie, eternal life is received by FAITH/SPIRIT, not by merely being informed.

You probably know what I will say in response. So, no need to say it.
If you aren't sure. Read the post you replied to. Thanks.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Who told Adam that he was naked?

Yes, they had opened the door through disobedience, which allowed a wrong SPIRIT into their being. AKA the devil....god of this world, spirit of the world. This is what happened to all of us....we sinned and likewise stepped into the devil's snare. Only through FAITH and the HOLY SPIRIT can we be set free from it.

That's not the point. !!!

Question: Will the same voice that told Adam he was was naked be speaking to us when we meet Jesus face to face in the afterlife?

THAT'S THE POINT !!!!!!!!!!

/

 

[Lizbeth]

JESUS made it very clear . He who hears and believes not will be damned .

THE MESSAGE WAS DIRE ye must BELEIVE ON HIM and those who rejected WOULD be damned . WE GOTTA KEEP IT SIMPLE

Amen. It's the flesh of man that keeps looking for loopholes, but there aren't any. God has already provided the solution to the plight of fallen man - the way to salvation and eternal life......He has provided the Lamb. That Lamb, Jesus, is the only way that God has provided. People refuse God's way and to submit to His way because they want their own way or any way other than HIS way! AKA rebellion.
(Having computer problems at my end....had to cut out most of your post to be able to hit the reply button.)

 

[Lizbeth]

St. SteVen said:
In the afterlife we will have a clarity that we do not have here on earth.

You probably know what I will say in response. So, no need to say it.
If you aren't sure. Read the post you replied to. Thanks.

/

No I dont know, other than thinking you will probably not accept what I'm trying to say. And that apparently what I said annoys you.