The Half-Gospel.
- Thread starter Episkopos
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Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Blessings in Christ!
This sounds similar to Enoch's response, so reply to Post #37 for me.
If we really know Christ and by Him the Father, there is no trembling and fear, just wonderment and adoration, for than we know His , there love, and realize in them, there is no fear.
Than some times you ask too much of the wrong questions, and God tells you to stop trying to figure Him out. It was fun thought.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Ok.
Here is their post.... """""
If it has bearing on those who are "already saved," then it implies that their salvation can be in jeopardy if they should fall into egregious sin like the Israelites did before reaching the promised land, yes?"""
Once a person , a believer understands what Salvation is, and Who created it and who maintains it, then all USELESS self effort to try to do it for yourself, will end.
But you have to get there in your FAITH by Right Believing.
You have to come to the place where you realize that Salvation was created on the Cross and by the Death and Resurrection of Christ 2000+ yrs ago.
Its not something you do. Its something that God did for you, 2000 yrs ago, on the Cross, and by His death and resurrection, that GOD then offers as a GIFT. John 3:16
Once a believer can SEE THIS REVELATION = that Salvation is a GIFT, then they will stop trying to keep it or preserve it, or work to maintain it.
But until they can understand the word GIFT, they will run around doing the devil's work of (teaching and preaching) =THE substitution of Self Effort for the Grace of God.
Oh yes...!
"Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:2-3
"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
...a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:1,7
These are ALL just words. To open your post this way, this is posturing, as if, what, I write, Just words, and you, something . . . more?
I truly desire that people would be able to stick to the point, to address the posts, without all the extra stuff, it always takes so much time.
Few people will ever walk in the Spirit in our day.
Overgeneralization, vague, and is it even accurate?
People now prefer fables to the truth.
Same thing, a vague overgeneralization. What is the point? Unless you mean to imply that "I" prefer fables, is that what you mean? Can you answer honestly?
Indoctrination makes a philosophy and a vain religious posturing to be the biblical standard...which it is not.
I suppose so, what is the relevance here?
We are warned in the bible about the deceptions of the last days.
Something real! Yes, we are warned, and we need to know the teachings of the Bible, and compare all men's teachings to that.
The truth is that we can learn obedience through faith by being first LED by the Spirit. Only by the faith OF Christ will God permit an entrance into a heavenly walk in the perfected life of Jesus through His resurrection grace.
Scripture please!
In particular that defines the "heavenly walk". In the past, you mentioned a verse, "Where are you staying?" to which Jesus answered "come and see." But that doesn't say anything about a 'heavenly walk'.
There is Ephesians 2, which tells us that God has seated us in the heavenlies with Christ, that is, those who He's made alive in Christ, which takes us back to rebirth.
It's basically unknown...hence the false gospel that pretends much...but is an empty testimony.
What's unknown? Walking in the Spirit? Hardly!
And once people have been indoctrinated into the lie...they almost never humble themselves as this would seem like they are giving up their security.
When you come to this idea of whether or not we can trust God for our lives, both now and forever, personally, I'm going to keep trusting God.
Otherwise, your confidence is only going to be a great as your own sense of sinlessness.
And if we're talking about being able to rely on having completely accurate perceptions of ourselves, well, I'm going to keep trusting God.
Is it vanity to trust God, or is it vanity to think that you can complete the process?
Much love!
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Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry. I just realized I was wanting to back you all the way up to Post #22, which now that I realize it was actually addressed to you and you never answered.
I'll repost it for you. The question at the end is more particularly what I am after.
Post #22:
Hey, Behold. If you can, let me discuss this with you. 1 Corinthians 10 states as follows:
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 There has no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. 14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
Now, in this passage, Paul is comparing us to the believers in the wilderness, is he not? And if so, the admonition is that we not be overthrown in the wilderness like the Israelites were who fled Egypt, yes?
You are quite mistaken. Those were UNBELIEVERS who were overthrown in the wilderness.
Paul is simply using their example to warn Christians that once they have been saved, they must avoid sinning and any form of idolatry. There are serious consequences (short of losing salvation) for those who are children on God bu persist in any kind of sin.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Well now that's an interesting position. You're saying that the entire wilderness generation were unbelievers?
If so, you would now have the apostle Paul comparing the Corinthian church to unbelievers... we have people on this forum that do that to others quite a bit, but it's not something I condone, LoL. You truly think Paul would use unbelievers as examples for us to follow?
Moses is now an unbeliever? And Joshua and Caleb?
Can you say grasping at straws?
You twist and obfuscate in order to avoid admitting anything truthful. All the people were saved that died in the wilderness. Are you going to deny that they were God's people that He miraculously saved through the Red Sea? Will you stop at nothing in pursuit of an indoctrination into error?
Ex. 9:1 Then the Lord said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh, and tell him, Thus saith the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
Whose people were they?
Reading skills and honesty are required.
And most Christians today are just as unbelieving as they who were overthrown in the desert. They refused to humble themselves...and serve God...just as we are seeing right now from so many.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
I was going to point out to him that it's not just the obvious ones like Moses, Joshua and Caleb either. The text actually reads:
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand...
The some here is to be taken in context as a minority, because had they all been engaging in these sins, all of them would have come under the same judgments. But only those who worshipped the golden calf died. Only those among the 23,000 died. Only those who were destroyed by serpents, and only those who murmured against God.
Also, the statement, Wherefore let him that thinks he stands take heed lest he fall, becomes extremely odd in this context if it does not refer to "falling" in the same way as the Israelites did in the wilderness. It breaks with context so blatantly as to render the whole passage a reach on Paul's part, discrediting the entire teaching as if he were just going overboard in trying to scare people.
Deliberately misrepresenting someone else is as much a sin as lying about someone else. That was not about Moses, Joshua, and Caleb, but about those who perished in the wilderness because of their unbelief (the bulk of those who came out of Egypt).
And speaking of unbelief, since you DO NOT BELIEVE the true and full Gospel of God, you may consider yourself an unbeliever also.
You are forgetting that this was only a fraction of those who died in the wilderness because of their unbelief and rebellion. So you are the one taking things out of context. Here is the truth of the matter:
DEUTERONOMY 1: CALEB AND JOSHUA SPARED
34 And the LORD heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,
35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,
36 Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him will I give the land that he hath trodden upon, and to his children, because he hath wholly followed the LORD.
37 Also the LORD was angry with me for your sakes, saying, Thou also shalt not go in thither.
38 But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.
But you have taken this thread totally off topic. So you owe it to everyone to present the FULL AND TRUE GOSPEL (which Episkopos was unable to do, but which I presented, and he turned around and attacked me for dishonesty).
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Assuming that because they did not enter the promised land means they were unsaved is in error, Enoch. Moses didn't enter in either, so by this supposition Moses must not have been saved either.
Ok. Here it is:
Make Him not only Savior but Lord. Do that, and you're in.
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