The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

[CadyandZoe]

See, even you admitted some Truth.

Why wouldn't I? What's your point?

Why don't you quote the Scriptures instead of you opinions??? You're making up most of that!

Prove it.

Here's the Truth, Humans will suffer the same fate as the Devil:

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Okay. Does this verse say anything about punishment? No. It doesn't.

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.'

There are three people mentioned in this verse. Each of them is a demon. This verse proves that demons can be tormented. It isn't proof that people will be tormented.

 

[Jack]

I haven't made it up. Those who care about truth, look for themselves to make sure of all things. I Will help you--google-tetragramoton, its that simple.

You should read your own posts. You make false comments constantly!

 

[Jack]

Why wouldn't I? What's your point?

Prove it.

Okay. Does this verse say anything about punishment? No. It doesn't.

There are three people mentioned in this verse. Each of them is a demon. This verse proves that demons can be tormented. It isn't proof that people will be tormented.

You just admitted "they will be tormented day and night forever and ever". And humans suffer the exact same fate!

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.'

 

[Grailhunter]

Of course it means what it says. But it doesn't say what you think it does.

The thing is you have the lingo of a cult leader going full throttle . Which means you are probably involved with cult leader.

I know. I scripturally disproved your interpretation.

You proved nothing and I gave you a lot of very clear scripture....keep tap dancing.

I understand your temptation to strike out in contemptuous anger.

No it is more like pity.

Fortunately, one is not damned according to what one believes about hell. Besides, fear of hell is not a good reason to believe in Jesus. Only bullies use coercion to get their way.

Boy you are messed up! What sin has control of you? Repent.

I am attempting to correct your understanding of the writings of Jesus and the Apostles using scripture and sound reason. I encourage you to do the same.

All you are doing is digging your hole deeper.

 

[Grailhunter]

Okay now, just quiet yourself and let's do a Bible study together. You go first. Do a Bible word search in the New Testament and look up the word "weeping." Report back to the conversation what you find. Where does the weeping and gnashing of teeth take place?

Again you must not know who you are talking to.....
Word games are not going to help you.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, different theologians will interpret the Bible different, but that is generally because of the method they use. I take the Bible literal, and I find that others that do the same thing come to almost the same conclusions. When I say that, I recognize that there are parables and there is symbolism in prophecy. I am also someone that uses the KJV Bible only and Strong's Concordance Dictionary rather than dictionaries that are more like commentaries. If a person is interpreting scripture using anything but a literal interpretation, I am not going to agree with that person. I also reject those who strictly use hermeneutics because that doesn't work with the Bible.

Yeah , never follow those who use naught but hermes . Lambs have the SPIRIT
GOD KNOWS what HE INSPIRED and HE can teach us by the SPIRIT what HE INSPIRED .
YEP . Simply let us open those bibles and learn THAT GOD , HIS CHRIST and all sound doctrine .
ITS NOT nearly as complicated as men try and make it out to be .
THE TRUTH IS , they have to make it complicated to FIT THEIR OWN TEACHING .
ME , i just say WHAT IT SAYS . its real simple really . But its they who twist everything
its they who make cliams like we cannot understand an ancient text , that we need some kind of man made
THINGY MA DO to be able to understand what it means .
UHHH , YEAH NO . By grace i have been in that bible for over seventeen years . Guess what john
our sister becky has been feasting huge on it too . WE SEEM TO SEE IT the SAME MY FREIND .
ITS not complicated . MAN MAKES IT COMPLICATED . Cause man TWISTS STUFF
to fit their OWN teachings .
Many men have done such a thing . INSTEAD OF JUST READING and loving the HOLY TRUTH in that bible
and lettting the TRUTH form and shape their minds .
WHAT THEY DO is they have an IDEA of what they THINK TRUTH IS
then try and make the scriptures FIT THEIR TRUTH . YEAH , THAT WONT and DONT BODE WELL EITHER .

 

[CadyandZoe]

You just admitted "they will be tormented day and night forever and ever". And humans suffer the exact same fate!

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.'

I see that the everlasting fire is prepared for the demons. And I see that the demons are tormented day and night. What I need to see is that the goats are also tormented. Revelation 20:10 doesn't say that.

Jesus tells us that both souls and bodies are destroyed in the fire. This seems clear to me.

 

[Jack]

What do we see here, billions of souls? I count three demons: the devil, the beast, and the false prophet. These three demons will be tormented day and night in the lake of fire, not billions of human beings who will be incinerated and destroyed in the fire.

Where does it say the 'false prophet' is a demon? It doesn't. Again you're making stuff up.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The thing is you have the lingo of a cult leader going full throttle.

I have the language of an intelligent person who has learned how to read. Is that your definition of a cult leader? Not mine.

You proved nothing and I gave you a lot of very clear scripture....keep tap dancing.

No it is more like pity.


Boy you are messed up! What sin has control of you? Repent.


All you are doing is digging your hole deeper.

Ridicule is a lost art. You aren't very good at it.

Take up the chalice Grailhunter.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Again you must not know who you are talking to.....
Word games are not going to help you.

All I know is that I am talking to a person who is unwilling to have a civil conversation.

 

[Jack]

Jesus tells us that both souls and bodies are destroyed in the fire. This seems clear to me.

Still making stuff up?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Where does it say the 'false prophet' is a demon? It doesn't. Again you're making stuff up.

Where does it say the 'false prophet' is a human being?

I'm simply attempting to make sense of all the facts. But suppose I am wrong? Revelation 20:10 mentions two beings, not billions. And Jesus says that the Lake of Fire is where God destroys body and soul. The idea of destruction overthrows the idea of torture. For this reason, it stands to reason that the beings suffering torment are not the bodies and souls of people. I am willing to concede that demons can suffer eternal torment. But since Jesus says that God destroys men in hell, then I am not at liberty to conclude that human beings are being tormented in the Lake of Fire.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Still making stuff up?

It's in the Bible. Look it up.

 

[Grailhunter]

I see that the everlasting fire is prepared for the demons. And I see that the demons are tormented day and night. What I need to see is that the goats are also tormented. Revelation 20:10 doesn't say that.

Jesus tells us that both souls and bodies are destroyed in the fire. This seems clear to me.

You cannot torment someone that is destroyed.
I can sin all I want...I will have fun while I can and then I will be destroyed....no pain....no torment!

 

[Jack]

Where does it say the 'false prophet' is a human being?

I'm simply attempting to make sense of all the facts. But suppose I am wrong? Revelation 20:10 mentions two beings, not billions. And Jesus says that the Lake of Fire is where God destroys body and soul. The idea of destruction overthrows the idea of torture. For this reason, it stands to reason that the beings suffering torment are not the bodies and souls of people. I am willing to concede that demons can suffer eternal torment. But since Jesus says that God destroys men in hell, then I am not at liberty to conclude that human beings are being tormented in the Lake of Fire

Your opinions do not overrule Jesus.

"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"

Luke 16
19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

He wasn't destroyed by the fire. He was TORMENTED and quite alive!

 

[Grailhunter]

I have the language of an intelligent person who has learned how to read. Is that your definition of a cult leader? Not mine.

Ridicule is a lost art. You aren't very good at it.

Take up the chalice Grailhunter.

No I understand the lingo.
You are well brain washed. Intervention is hard enough in person....I am not going to get it done on the forum.
My God have mercy on your soul.

 

[Jack]

It's in the Bible. Look it up.

Then why don't you have Scripture? Grailhunter gave you plenty of Scripture! Post 675

 

[Jack]

Where does it say the 'false prophet' is a human being?

I'm simply attempting to make sense of all the facts. But suppose I am wrong? Revelation 20:10 mentions two beings, not billions. And Jesus says that the Lake of Fire is where God destroys body and soul. The idea of destruction overthrows the idea of torture. For this reason, it stands to reason that the beings suffering torment are not the bodies and souls of people. I am willing to concede that demons can suffer eternal torment. But since Jesus says that God destroys men in hell, then I am not at liberty to conclude that human beings are being tormented in the Lake of Fire.

You just admitted that the false prophet is human and will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER!

 

[CadyandZoe]

You cannot torment someone that is destroyed.

Right. My point exactly.

I can sin all I want...I will have fun while I can and then I will be destroyed....no pain....no torment!

No life. Why dismiss life itself?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your opinions do not overrule Jesus.

"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"

Where was the rich man? He was in Hades. And what happens to Hades. It is destroyed.