The Immaculate Conception Error!

[KingJ]

1. King, please don't tell me that you would bring back the torture and the killing of anyone who doesn't agree with a specific theology?
Have you spent much time here? LOL...it would be a blood bath, my friend!

The thing is, while you might frighten people into saying that they agree with whatever brand of theology is doing the torturing, that doesn't mean that they actually do. You simply cannot force people to believe a certain way. You cannot control someone else's mind or heart, King.

Okay, maybe there are times I wish I could. For instance, if I were in charge of an Inquisition today, I would be hunting down everyone who dares to promote abortion. No Christian would be allowed to so much as whisper such a thing. And how about we punish any Christian who dares to defy me by plunging them into an acid bath, so that they might know what happens to the baby in the womb when the doc injects a saline solution into the amniotic fluid? Or we could apply suction to his limbs and tear him apart...

But, no. I could not be so cruel as that.

2. So, what is the answer, then, King?
Should we wipe them out?
Bomb Mecca, perhaps? Nuke 'em off the face of the earth?
Wouldn't that make us as bad as they are? Are we killers, King? Should we be?
Killers in the name of Christ?

I don't have any answers. Do you?

1. The point of a panel of respected clergy is to avoid senseless punishment and cruel torture. Again, think about the fact that only 3000 or so were killed over 400 years. I am not saying it was right, but it is understandable that some heretics be that bad that they deserve death. It must have been after many warnings. I wouldn't mind being one of those 3000 for the greater good.

Today I would settle for ANY Christian denomination before abortion and GLBT nonsense, being in power ;). Differences in beliefs over the rapture, purgatory, immaculate conception, OSAS are all non sequitur to what is important. Namely hating what is evil, avoiding all appearance of evil and clinging to what is good.

2. Of course we don't wipe them out :). Islam is a god fearing belief. I respect many Muslims! Inciting violence against them all makes us no better then the radicals. We just need to give the radicals a proper thumping to discourage that insanity. Because thats exactly what it is. The non radical Muslims have sanity and higher intellgence. Albeit the Quran says some crazy things, common sense still prevails for most (I think 80% was the %).

 

[Barrd]

1. The point of a panel of respected clergy is to avoid senseless punishment and cruel torture. Again, think about the fact that only 3000 or so were killed over 400 years. I am not saying it was right, but it is understandable that some heretics be that bad that they deserve death. It must have been after many warnings. I wouldn't mind being one of those 3000 for the greater good.

Killing someone because they don't believe the same way that you do? No, King, that just doesn't work for me.
What kind of "heretic" could be so bad that they deserve death?
So someone doesn't agree with you about the trinity, for instance. They should die for that? We should kill all Jehovah's Witnesses and all Mormons?
That just seems a bit over the top, to me.

Today I would settle for ANY Christian denomination before abortion and GLBT nonsense, being in power ;). Differences in beliefs over the rapture, purgatory, immaculate conception, OSAS are all non sequitur to what is important. Namely hating what is evil, avoiding all appearance of evil and clinging to what is good.

I think the RCC demonstrated what happens when any denomination has too much power. It would be the same, I think, if, say Pentecostals were to somehow come to absolute power, or Baptists, or Lutherans, or any other denomination. We have demonstrated that a Theocracy will not work...not without the Lord Himself sitting on the throne. A human proxy will not do, because, as we know, the heart of man is desperately wicked.

2. Of course we don't wipe them out :). Islam is a god fearing belief. I respect many Muslims! Inciting violence against them all makes us no better then the radicals. We just need to give the radicals a proper thumping to discourage that insanity. Because thats exactly what it is. The non radical Muslims have sanity and higher intellgence. Albeit the Quran says some crazy things, common sense still prevails for most (I think 80% was the %).

Yet, as you say, Christians are dying at their hands every day. I find it difficult to "respect" Muslims.
Actually, I don't think that bombing Mecca is such a bad idea.

 

[Barrd]

If you have read the Koran then you probably had a good laugh like I did when Bush said we were going to invade Iraq and make them a democratic nation. :lol:

All we can do for these folks is pray for them. They are even allowed to lie as long as it furthers the cause of Islam. So you cant make deals with them either, John Kerry.

I've read the Koran, Spiritus.
And it chilled me through to my very soul.

I've also read the Talmud. Trust me, today's Jews are not our friends.

 

[biointeger]

Even Christopher Hitchens conceded that the immaculate conception was possible. (Under certain conditions)

 

[KingJ]

1. Killing someone because they don't believe the same way that you do? No, King, that just doesn't work for me.
What kind of "heretic" could be so bad that they deserve death?
So someone doesn't agree with you about the trinity, for instance. They should die for that? We should kill all Jehovah's Witnesses and all Mormons?
That just seems a bit over the top, to me.

2. I think the RCC demonstrated what happens when any denomination has too much power. It would be the same, I think, if, say Pentecostals were to somehow come to absolute power, or Baptists, or Lutherans, or any other denomination. We have demonstrated that a Theocracy will not work...not without the Lord Himself sitting on the throne. A human proxy will not do, because, as we know, the heart of man is desperately wicked.


3. Yet, as you say, Christians are dying at their hands every day. I find it difficult to "respect" Muslims.
Actually, I don't think that bombing Mecca is such a bad idea.

1. Nobody would just be killed for believing differently. There was always more to it. Qualified priests and qualified elders are smart and highly respected people in society, mostly.

2. The RCC demonstrated that a Christian denomination in charge is not perfect but certainly much better then Christian anarchy / unsaved in power.

3. There is a silent majority not included in the radical %'s. So your disrespect is understandable. But still, we can't be as bad as them. We have to isolate radicals. I do agree with Trump's proposal to ban all from entering as the risk is just too high.

 

[mjrhealth]

but it is understandable that some heretics be that bad that they deserve death.

If heretics deserve death than God would have to Kill all teh religious people of the world. What was done in those days was an abomination and a slap in teh face of God. He will not forget, and those behind it wil all pay the price. They made a mockery of God, murdering teh innocent in His name.

What does it say about,

" you father is teh devil, for he is a liar a thief and a murderer" as he was from teh very beginning.

 

[KingJ]

If heretics deserve death than God would have to Kill all teh religious people of the world. What was done in those days was an abomination and a slap in teh face of God. He will not forget, and those behind it wil all pay the price. They made a mockery of God, murdering teh innocent in His name.

What does it say about,

" you father is teh devil, for he is a liar a thief and a murderer" as he was from teh very beginning.

It is for the greater good MJR.

Look at Christianity today. There are so many churches I would not ever want to send my kids too. Now what about the churches of tomorrow if we do nothing about the heretics of today??????????

Yes I am getting mad ;). False teachers all deserve the death penalty. Even Jesus agrees Luke 17:12.

If heretics deserve death than God would have to Kill all teh religious people of the world.

This makes no sense to me. Why would God need to kill all?

 

[Barrd]

1. Nobody would just be killed for believing differently. There was always more to it. Qualified priests and qualified elders are smart and highly respected people in society, mostly.

Who gets to decide who is a "qualified priest" or a "qualified elder"? These 3000 who were killed...do we know what they had done that made them worthy of death?
3000 may not seem like a lot for a 400 year spread...but each one of those lives mattered to someone. Each life taken represented someone's father or mother or son or daughter. Remember, I'm the one whose husband was killed by a drunk driver...I know how devastating it can be to lose someone that way. Now, of course, he's a statistic...just one of those killed by alcohol that year.
So, "only' 3000 lives were taken. But how many more lives were devastated?
How does not believing in a certain way make someone worthy of death?

2. The RCC demonstrated that a Christian denomination in charge is not perfect but certainly much better then Christian anarchy / unsaved in power.

And what do we do with people who have no connection with Christianity at all? Shouldn't whoever is governing the people treat all people fairly, regardless of their religious beliefs? Sure, you and I are concerned with Christians and Christianity. And we want to promote our own doctrines.
Everyone should believe as I do...that the Ten Commandments are still in force, that we demonstrate our faith, as James said, by our works, that being 'under grace' does not mean that we are free to transgress God's law.
I am shocked when "Christians" tell me that they may sin with impunity, because Jesus paid for their sin, past present and future. To me, this seems like trampling the blood of Christ under their feet.
Should we kill them for this? Isn't that taking the judgement that belongs to God alone into our own hands?
And doesn't Jesus warn us that we will be judged by our own standard?
I believe with all of my heart that our judgement ought to be merciful and not harsh...because that is what we want from God when we stand before Him. We are told that we will give an account of every idle word that we let come out of our mouths. If that is so, when it comes my turn, I'm going to be standing there for awhile...mostly going "umm...errr...uh...but...well...uh...gee..."

3. There is a silent majority not included in the radical %'s. So your disrespect is understandable. But still, we can't be as bad as them. We have to isolate radicals. I do agree with Trump's proposal to ban all from entering as the risk is just too high.

Don't you understand, my brother, that when we advocate killing "heretics", that we are as bad as them?

 

[tom55]

How do you debunk something that's not true?

How do you prove it is not true? For all things are possible with God!

 

[Veni_Creator_Spiritus]

I've read the Koran, Spiritus.
And it chilled me through to my very soul.

I've also read the Talmud. Trust me, today's Jews are not our friends.

Yeah, people preaching dual covenant should probably read the Talmud, and get more familiar with the NT as well.

They have a very unflattering term to describe the virgin Mary. Although they have been known to dispute the references made to Jesus and Mary.

If Muslims did their homework they would know that Muhammed was foolishly quoting Talmud as if it were scared scripture.:

…if any one killed a person, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind; and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole of mankind…” Quran 5:32

That was ripped off from this::

Whoever destroys a single life is as guilty as though he had destroyed the entire world; and whoever rescues a single life earns as much merit as though he had rescued the entire world.

-The Talmud Mishna Sanhedrin 37a​

​

The Koran is a badly plagiarized cocktail of the Bible, Talmud and other sources to probably include Satan.

Never heard of any angels of YHWH choking people in caves to give them revelation.

 

[Veni_Creator_Spiritus]

1. Nobody would just be killed for believing differently. There was always more to it. Qualified priests and qualified elders are smart and highly respected people in society, mostly.

2. The RCC demonstrated that a Christian denomination in charge is not perfect but certainly much better then Christian anarchy / unsaved in power.

3. There is a silent majority not included in the radical %'s. So your disrespect is understandable. But still, we can't be as bad as them. We have to isolate radicals. I do agree with Trump's proposal to ban all from entering as the risk is just too high.

I was in favor of just allowing women and children to come. Then the attack on San Bernadino happen and I honestly feel uneasy about letting any of them come over since we know women are capable of being just as bad as the guys.

Then again, we may be the only Jesus these people ever see.

Whatever they do, proper screening needs to occur. But is that even possible? Lying is permissible in Islam so long as it furthers the cause of Islam. You cant trust anything they put on their applications. Maybe lie detector tests? Truth serum? They need to go to the extreme before letting them come.

 

[mjrhealth]

It is for the greater good MJR.

What murdering people because they wont conform, that is all that was about. Christians non christians alike, you dont conform you die. It was not hresy, teh church tha twas doing teh killing practised mot heresy tahn teh ones it was killing, and still si today.

 

[Barrd]

I was in favor of just allowing women and children to come. Then the attack on San Bernadino happen and I honestly feel uneasy about letting any of them come over since we know women are capable of being just as bad as the guys.

Then again, we may be the only Jesus these people ever see.

Whatever they do, proper screening needs to occur. But is that even possible? Lying is permissible in Islam so long as it furthers the cause of Islam. You cant trust anything they put on their applications. Maybe lie detector tests? Truth serum? They need to go to the extreme before letting them come.

If it were up to me, we'd not only not let them come, we'd deport all of them that are already here.

Lie detector test? No, Spiritus...all that is needed to pass a lie detector test is to keep yourself calm...
If you believe your own lie, how is the lie detector test going to work?

 

[Veni_Creator_Spiritus]

If it were up to me, we'd not only not let them come, we'd deport all of them that are already here.

Lie detector test? No, Spiritus...all that is needed to pass a lie detector test is to keep yourself calm...
If you believe your own lie, how is the lie detector test going to work?

I've heard the lie detector tests are like 97% accurate.

And we have guys who work for the CIA who are human lie detector tests.

If there is no way to properly vet them then we should not let them in.

I hate turning people away because as previously stated, we may be the only Jesus they ever see. BUT, I'm tired of these so called "moderate" muslims who remain silent while the terrorists kill innocent people. To me, they are guilty by association and by their own silence.

 

[Barrd]

I've heard the lie detector tests are like 97% accurate.

And we have guys who work for the CIA who are human lie detector tests.

If there is no way to properly vet them then we should not let them in.

I hate turning people away because as previously stated, we may be the only Jesus they ever see. BUT, I'm tired of these so called "moderate" muslims who remain silent while the terrorists kill innocent people. To me, they are guilty by association and by their own silence.

Supposedly, a lie detector test works by gauging your reactions as you speak. If you're lying, you are nervous, and the machine shows it.
But if you believe your lie, you won't have a reaction. To you, you are telling the truth, and the machine is going to read you as telling the truth.

 

[Veni_Creator_Spiritus]

Supposedly, a lie detector test works by gauging your reactions as you speak. If you're lying, you are nervous, and the machine shows it.
But if you believe your lie, you won't have a reaction. To you, you are telling the truth, and the machine is going to read you as telling the truth.

I know for a fact that they aren't 100% accurate because i took one before and was told I failed, even though I told the truth. lol. :wacko:

Probably the CIA guys are better at detecting lies than the machines are.

 

[Barrd]

I know for a fact that they aren't 100% accurate because i took one before and was told I failed, even though I told the truth. lol. :wacko:

Probably the CIA guys are better at detecting lies than the machines are.

If you told the truth and failed you were probably nervous.
I took one as part of a demonstration in college, and passed it, even though I lied. I think it comes of being a story-teller. To be any good at it, you have to believe the story you are telling...

 

[Veni_Creator_Spiritus]

If you told the truth and failed you were probably nervous.
I took one as part of a demonstration in college, and passed it, even though I lied. I think it comes of being a story-teller. To be any good at it, you have to believe the story you are telling...

I think the 97% figure must be total bogus then lol.

More like 50-60%

No wonder why they aren't admissible in court.

 

[Barrd]

I think the 97% figure must be total bogus then lol.

More like 50-60%

No wonder why they aren't admissible in court.

I'd say the 97% figure is totally bogus, yes.
Oh, and part of getting a positive for lies result is psyching your subject up before you hook him up to the lie detector. Scare him. Make him believe that the technology is accurate, and can tell if you are lying...whatever it takes to make him nervous. I saw one subject test positive for lying when he was asked where he lived, and I know he gave the right address. But he'd bought the hype, you see...and he went in nervous...


Maybe I shouldn't be telling you this stuff in an open forum... :unsure: :wacko:

 

[Born_Again]

I have tricked a lie detector. They aren't reliable. Hence why they aren't allowed to be used in court.