The Impotent Church

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stunnedbygrace

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Interesting thread, but I think you kind of missed it....

The Holy Spirit is neither masculine nor feminine, and this is what so many churches are missing--the power and unction of God's Spirit! This is the impotent church!!!

Male and female He made them. In his image He made them. It feels like God is like a father and the Holy Spirit is more gentle like a mother. But I certainly wouldnt get into an argument over it.
 

Prayer Warrior

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Male and female He made them. In his image He made them. It feels like God is like a father and the Holy Spirit is more gentle like a mother. But I certainly wouldnt get into an argument over it.

I'm certainly not ignoring how God made humans at all. He did make us male and female, and we have different roles to play in life even though some of those roles overlap and are filled by both males and females. Since my husband died, I've had to be mother and father to my daughters.

But the OP was claiming that the impotence of the Church is due to a move of the churches to become more feminine. I would just point out that in the Church, when the Spirit is moving, there is no male and female. I have seen God use women just as mightily as He has used men. There really is no difference. His power knows no gender and flows through both equally.
 

Prayer Warrior

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Bookmarked!

:)
Cool! I have to say that God used Wigglesworth in my life during a time of severe testing of my faith. He was so full of the Word of God and the Holy Spirit! His sermons are definitely worth reading.
 
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Episkopos

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1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the (addition, multiplying) increase.
Acts 11:23-24 Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.(as a wife does to her husband) [24] For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.

Luke 12:28-32 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, (Galatians 3:27-29 have put on Christ) O ye of little faith? [29] And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. [30] For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. [31] But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you. [32] Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure (having no pleasure in death)to give you the kingdom.

seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you. 2 Peter 1:5-7 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

James 3:17-18 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of (the Spirit of)righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. (Take Hold of the peace and righteousness of God)

Isaiah 27:5 Or let him take hold of my strength, (masculinity?)that he may make peace with me; and he shall make peace with me.

Luke 20:23-26 But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me? [24] Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's. [25] And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's. [26] And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.

The way you are trying to see things is conflicted. Look outside at a tree. Now you can see the tree superimposed on the sky. These are not against each other. They are part of the same scenery..one on the other....but together. The sky isn't fighting against the tree....and the tree isn't against the sky...but they are both part of the same picture.

Your way of seeing in conflicted...because you are really not understanding the gospel yet.
 

Hidden In Him

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As when the woman with a blood issue touched the hem of his garment and strength “virtue” went out from him?

Different Greek word.
Not disagreeing but “which means manliness or fighting spirit” could be received to puff up the flesh. Consider:
Luke 9:54-56 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? [55] But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. [56] For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

This wasn't James and John manifesting valor, however. it was them being given over to a spirit of anger and vengeance. Different thing.
Add to your Faith Manliness strength? @Hidden In Him quoted it...this strength “power” is added and comes from above of God. Man can’t add squat as Christ said not one can add to his stature.

Absolutely. You see, the teaching is capsulated in this saying, "God has not given us a Spirit of fear, but of power, love, and self-control." The boldness we receive to walk in spiritual valor before our our enemies and those who would kill us comes through that same Spirit, which is why Paul asked for prayers that he might be empowered with that boldness before men (Ephesians 6:18-19, which follows on the heals of the teaching on putting on the whole armor of God).

That God has not given us a Spirit of fear is what is behind numerous verses in both the New and Old Testaments.

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes … For in it the righteousness of God is revealed” (Romans 1:16-17).

“Many are my persecutors and my enemies, yet I do not turn from Your testimonies. I see the treacherous, and am disgusted, because they do not keep Your word" (Psalms 119:157-158).

“Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, you people in whose heart is My law: Do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their insults.” (Isaiah 51:7,).

Those who walk in the spirit of fear, however, will be condemned by God when the judgment comes:

"If we deny Him, He also will deny us" (2 Timothy 2:12)

“But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone” (Revelation 21:7-8).
 
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marks

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I guess I would like to see some concrete examples here beyond mere cosmetics. The church I currently attend has lots of men present and I'm just not sure what it is you think makes a congregation feminine? Is it music that speaks of a loving God? Maybe it's just my corner of the world, but I haven't seen any feminine churches and I attended several.
This echoes my thoughts.

Much love!
 

Hidden In Him

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I have seen God use women just as mightily as He has used men. There really is no difference. His power knows no gender and flows through both equally.

Agreed.
I do think popular culture is and will effect the modern church; the increasing affirmation of homosexuality by many churches is a prime example of this, which we can expect to continue, leading to even more things going on in the typical church environment that are distasteful to masculine sensibilities.

The good news is this: Persecution and sufferings in standing for the truth are coming, and they will be allowed by God for precisely this reason. They will separate the men from the girls, and by that I mean spiritually, not in the natural. They will separate cowards from those who, having done all to stand, will stand against the onslaughts of the enemy and refuse to back down, even if it costs them their livelihoods, their families or their lives.

These will be the true solders God has promised to raise up during the end-times (Joel 2), and they will be the most fearsome and disciplined army this earth has ever seen... (i.e. both male and female)
 
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Prayer Warrior

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I agree with this statement you made, @Hidden In Him:

The good news is this: Persecution and sufferings in standing for the truth are coming, and they will be allowed by God for precisely this reason. They will separate the men from the girls, and by that I mean spiritually, not in the natural. They will separate cowards from those who, having done all to stand, will stand against the onslaughts of the enemy and refuse to back down, even if it costs them their livelihoods, their families or their lives.
I see persecution coming to the Church in America, and really, it's already begun. The devil is using this deviation from what God created male and female to be, but also a corruption of what God made sex to be in general....

The good news is that as persecution increases, the sheep are being separated from the goats, as you pointed out. Christians will be much more serious about God's purpose for us here on this earth. And I'm praying for revival in the midst of the persecution, or perhaps, because of it.
 

Mungo

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In the Roman Catholic Church it has been the increasing emphasis on Mary as Co-Redeemer,

The is NO emphasis on calling Mary a Co-Redeemer in the Catholic Church (and please stop miscalling it the Roman Catholic Church).

Perhaps you mean Co-Redemptrix but that is not an official title. It has been pursued by a tiny, tiny minority of Catholics who have got nowhere with it.

I find it is Protestants who get obsessive about Marian titles.
 

bbyrd009

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The is NO emphasis on calling Mary a Co-Redeemer in the Catholic Church (and please stop miscalling it the Roman Catholic Church).
ha well pls stop recognizing a Roman pope lol, and then we will!

i mean you saying it is not "Roman" Catholic does not make it any less Roman Catholic wadr. Maybe if you stamped your foot or something tho :)
i mean pls

and there's lots of emphasis on Mary in the Roman Catholic corporation? Don't you even have prayers to Mary? No offense but the denial is just making anything else you might say suspect
 
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Episkopos

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No specific reference? Or would it be too much to dig for. I'd like to use a citation for it if possible, but I understand if tracking it back down might be like finding a needle in a haystack.

You'd have to read the ancient writers like Plutarch and Thucydides. Try a study on the ancient Greek notion of arete.

Here is a excerpt from wiki...

In Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, "arete" is used mainly to describe heroes and nobles and their mobile dexterity, with special reference to strength and courage, but it is not limited to this. Penelope's arete, for example, relates to co-operation, for which she is praised by Agamemnon. The excellence of the gods generally included their power, but, in the Odyssey (13.42), the gods can grant excellence to a life, which is contextually understood to mean prosperity.

According to Bernard Knox's notes found in the Robert Fagles translation of The Odyssey, "arete" is also associated with the Greek word for "pray", araomai.[7]

In regards to the Iliad the way Homer describes Achilles is an example of Arete (187). Arete is associated with the goodness and prowess of a warrior (187). Debra Hawhee points out that the norms and practices of Athenian virtuosity “operate within the politics of reputation, whose normative poles are honor and shame” (187). This means Arete functions as an external phenomenon depending on outside reception and acknowledgement for its instantiation (188). Dying in battle or securing a victory in the Olympic Games were considered agathos (good) and, hence, deserving of timê (honor). So, not only is Achilles a brave and brilliant warrior but also, from the outset, he is destined to die in battle at Troy with the utmost glory—a guarantor of Arete.[8]
 
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Nancy

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Only in the context of the divine Bridegroom and the redeemed Bride. But Christians are designated as soldiers engage in spiritual warfare. And until very recently, women were not sent into battle. That too was a huge mistake, and an accommodation to Feminists.

Why do you say that women who are in battle in the Armed Forces was a "huge mistake"? Israels Army has pretty much always had female warriors in their Armies, or what ever they call their Military.
I haven't heard any negative feedback from my nephew nor friends who have been to Iraq, Afghanistan, Beirut and all over, I've never heard one time any complaints of woman being in battle. If they are up to it, why not?
 
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Enoch111

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Why do you say that women who are in battle in the Armed Forces was a "huge mistake"?
1. No matter how qualified, men are built as men, and women as women. If the same demanding physical standards for performance were applied across the board, women could not meet them. Conversely transgender men (pretending to be women) are beating them in sports constantly, and everyone is up in arms about this.

2. Females are subject to monthly periods, which affect them emotionally and physiologically. They are built to have babies, and be mothers. Not go out in battle. There is not a single society in human history that sent women out into the battlefield.

3. Men and women do not think in the same way about things in general. That's why someone wrote a book about men being from Mars, women from Venus. This is quite natural, and no one should be surprised. Men do not express their emotions as women, neither do they discuss matters in the same way as women. War is brutal, and women are not. (Not to mention the crude and coarse language of soldiers).

4. Men instinctively want to protect women from harm and danger, which means they could jeopardize a mission because of this instinct.

5. Most critically, when you put men and women in close proximity, the sexual tension rises dramatically and there is no avoiding it. That is a major distraction for soldiers in battle. And then you have all this nonsense about unwanted attention, and the bogus MeToo Movement.

6. Men are not willing or prepared to be led by women, and if you put a woman in charge of troops, there is bound to be resentment (which will spill over into performance under fire). Once again, this is how God has made men and women, and Feminists have tried to overthrow the natural order to emasculate men. And the military leadership in the Western world has already been emasculated to the point that they agreed to allow women into battle. The problem is that no one wants to honestly say what should be said, and the labels of *sexist* and *mysogynist* are used very effectively to deflect from the truth.
 
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Hidden In Him

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Dying in battle or securing a victory in the Olympic Games were considered agathos (good) and, hence, deserving of timê (honor). So, not only is Achilles a brave and brilliant warrior but also, from the outset, he is destined to die in battle at Troy with the utmost glory—a guarantor of Arete.[8]


It's just fascinating. I was watching the movie Gladiator the other day, and the theme of dying honorably, like men, ran throughout. In entering the Coliseum, they were told, "Go, and die with honor!" which they acknowledged by repeating the words, "With honor!" It appears to have been the mindset of the era; that arete should characterize a man's life, and that the way a man died ought to be a statement to that effect.

Several lines stand out in my memory; the repeated phrase that "We are but shadows and dust," and also the line, "Death smiles at all of us. The most a man can do is smile back," i.e. without fear. In other words, value was not placed on this life but the next. "What we do in this life echoes in eternity."

Is that not the mindset the New Testament writers encouraged believers to walk in? It strikes me as so obvious now just how much Paul made appeals to Christians to lead lives of virtue, lives of honor, lives of valor. The martyrs went to their deaths in the Colosseum understanding this; that dying honorably was a witness to the world that they were the most virtuous of men. No small wonder Christianity began supplanting the pagan religions with increasing speed. The valor and courage that the saints manifested when facing death was a testimony to all humanity that the Spirit of God within them was greater than the spirit that was in the world (Philippians 1:28).

Thanks for posting this morning, Episkopos. Any day I gain a better understanding of so many scriptures all at once is a good day to me.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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The way you are trying to see things is conflicted. Look outside at a tree. Now you can see the tree superimposed on the sky. These are not against each other. They are part of the same scenery..one on the other....but together. The sky isn't fighting against the tree....and the tree isn't against the sky...but they are both part of the same picture.

Your way of seeing in conflicted...because you are really not understanding the gospel yet.

“The way you are trying to see things is conflicted“ agree.

“Look outside at a tree. Now you can see the tree superimposed on the sky. These are not against each other. They are part of the same scenery..one on the other....but together. The sky isn't fighting against the tree....and the tree isn't against the sky...but they are both part of the same picture.” No offense not sure I follow you there. Are you comparing the natural with itself “Trees and sky” as an example of men’s strength not in conflict with God’s strength. doesn’t that born after the flesh persecute (wars against) that born after the Spirit say otherwise. Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
then is the flesh ceased?

“Your way of seeing in conflicted...because you are really not understanding the gospel yet“

again I agree.
 
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Nancy

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1. No matter how qualified, men are built as men, and women as women. If the same demanding physical standards for performance were applied across the board, women could not meet them. Conversely transgender men (pretending to be women) are beating them in sports constantly, and everyone is up in arms about this.

2. Females are subject to monthly periods, which affect them emotionally and physiologically. They are built to have babies, and be mothers. Not go out in battle. There is not a single society in human history that sent women out into the battlefield.

3. Men and women do not think in the same way about things in general. That's why someone wrote a book about men being from Mars, women from Venus. This is quite natural, and no one should be surprised. Men do not express their emotions as women, neither do they discuss matters in the same way as women. War is brutal, and women are not. (Not to mention the crude and coarse language of soldiers).

4. Men instinctively want to protect women from harm and danger, which means they could jeopardize a mission because of this instinct.

5. Most critically, when you put men and women in close proximity, the sexual tension rises dramatically and there is no avoiding it. That is a major distraction for soldiers in battle. And then you have all this nonsense about unwanted attention, and the bogus MeToo Movement.

6. Men are not willing or prepared to be led by women, and if you put a woman in charge of troops, there is bound to be resentment (which will spill over into performance under fire). Once again, this is how God has made men and women, and Feminists have tried to overthrow the natural order to emasculate men. And the military leadership in the Western world has already been emasculated to the point that they agreed to allow women into battle. The problem is that no one wants to honestly say what should be said, and the labels of *sexist* and *mysogynist* are used very effectively to deflect from the truth.


Seems it is the men who have an ego problem. And, yes i agree that both men and women should have to meet the physical requirements for certain duties in war. Unfortunately, many military woman agree with me. It is not fair that they are not given the same training. If they fail? Then they should be out. But, they are not offered the same training. Yes, many women should not be in combat for various reasons. A soldier takes commands no matter how dumb they seem and, if a women in camo in the middle of a war turns a male soldier's head...he is not fit to be a soldier...IMPO. My nephew is small in stature, not built up allot so, they used him as a gunner in Af. kinda peed me off as he was right in harms way but...it was because of his small size, making for a smaller target.
If men "won't" take orders from a woman then, that is not the women's problem that is totally on the man.
 

Episkopos

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Seems it is the men who have an ego problem. And, yes i agree that both men and women should have to meet the physical requirements for certain duties in war. Unfortunately, many military woman agree with me. It is not fair that they are not given the same training. If they fail? Then they should be out. But, they are not offered the same training. Yes, many women should not be in combat for various reasons. A soldier takes commands no matter how dumb they seem and, if a women in camo in the middle of a war turns a male soldier's head...he is not fit to be a soldier...IMPO. My nephew is small in stature, not built up allot so, they used him as a gunner in Af. kinda peed me off as he was right in harms way but...it was because of his small size, making for a smaller target.
If men "won't" take orders from a woman then, that is not the women's problem that is totally on the man.


Thy always give the biggest gun to the smallest soldier. It's a tradition of sorts! ;)
 
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