The Impotent Church

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Episkopos

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men’s strength not in conflict with God’s strength

2 Pet. 2:1 is about adding to our faith. I think the modern doctrines are very confused...pitting what we do against what God does.

So then in holiness: Man can do nothing. Only grace can empower us in holiness. No effort can make us walk in the power of Christ. it is a gift.

In righteousness: We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. If we do not conform ourselves to the obedience of faith...then we are transgressors.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
 

Grailhunter

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1. The impotency of the Church is by its own efforts. Those that divided Christ's Church into tens of thousands of denominations has made it virtually powerless. Does it promote faith to look at Christianity and see that they could not get it right, no matter how many times they tried?

2. In fighting...oh my...a house divided cannot stand...who was it that said that....some tall guy with a beard.

3. Women....I am a firm believer that they should know their place!!! In front of men! Most of the ills and failures of Christianity can be historically blamed on us menz! Equal is a misnomer when it comes to men and women but the status of women and men should be the same in the Churches of Christ. Some of you guys do not even deserve to have mother! Shame on you!

4. The don't doers religion....righteousness based on what you don't do. A religion that can practice its beliefs in a closet!

4. Fundamentalism....teaching things to children that appear to be a fantasy. The world is flat...science is bunk....dinosaurs and cavemen did not exist. Crazy logic! This all coming from churches that use technology and some are bouncing their services off a satellite 20,000 miles in orbit....and with a congregation which most have Smart Phones that have a thousand times the computing power and abilities than the computers that sent men to the moon. How do you define hypocrisy? When you work at making Christianity more and more unbelievable to the youth you are killing Christianity's future.
 
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Candidus

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1. No matter how qualified, men are built as men, and women as women. If the same demanding physical standards for performance were applied across the board, women could not meet them. Conversely transgender men (pretending to be women) are beating them in sports constantly, and everyone is up in arms about this.

2. Females are subject to monthly periods, which affect them emotionally and physiologically. They are built to have babies, and be mothers. Not go out in battle. There is not a single society in human history that sent women out into the battlefield.

3. Men and women do not think in the same way about things in general. That's why someone wrote a book about men being from Mars, women from Venus. This is quite natural, and no one should be surprised. Men do not express their emotions as women, neither do they discuss matters in the same way as women. War is brutal, and women are not. (Not to mention the crude and coarse language of soldiers).

4. Men instinctively want to protect women from harm and danger, which means they could jeopardize a mission because of this instinct.

5. Most critically, when you put men and women in close proximity, the sexual tension rises dramatically and there is no avoiding it. That is a major distraction for soldiers in battle. And then you have all this nonsense about unwanted attention, and the bogus MeToo Movement.

6. Men are not willing or prepared to be led by women, and if you put a woman in charge of troops, there is bound to be resentment (which will spill over into performance under fire). Once again, this is how God has made men and women, and Feminists have tried to overthrow the natural order to emasculate men. And the military leadership in the Western world has already been emasculated to the point that they agreed to allow women into battle. The problem is that no one wants to honestly say what should be said, and the labels of *sexist* and *mysogynist* are used very effectively to deflect from the truth.

You are correct that the military routinely lowers the bar to allow women in. The standard they set for men as the "minimum" to be able to physically handle the duties of a soldier, all of a sudden are not required if you are a woman.

The movie G.I. Jane raised the question: What if a woman could handle the same minimum physical requirements? If these standards were truly equal across the board, the percentage of females in most of the Services would not be there. Like it or not, equal standards or not, women are given a promotional edge in the military. If you are a male and chose a man over a woman applying for a promotion or position, you are potentially destroying your career by the slightest perceived hint of sexism; the finger is therefore, routinely placed on the scale in the females' favor to avoid having your career ruined. The military will say that they do not have any such quota, but it is a reality. 20 Years ago I witnessed this hugely disproportionate promotion of of the most incompetent, mediocre performing women getting promoted over the most competent and worthy males. While men were at 80-90% of the people in the careers they worked in, it appeared that a strange phenomenon happened; a specific proportion of men, women and minorities were always promoted at the higher ranks. 10 got promoted, which meant 5 women, three minorities (preferably females), and only two men got promoted. Minority females rocketed to the top, many that were far from qualified besides race and sex. This is not to say that some of the women were qualified and worthy of promotion, but when you see some get promoted and they are lackluster performers before, there is no other explanation for why more qualified males did not get the promotion. Whether written or not, there is a quota.

The "attitude" or "sexism" that has been raised towards men's attitude towards female leadership does not commonly occur because of chauvinism, but the reality of knowing that they never should have been placed over you. It is rarely "an ego problem." Some of this attitude is the anger of some servicemen who get crappy duty on the front lines, while women get the cushy accommodation in the rear of the combat areas. As long as they are there, your odds of not being up front in undesirable and dangerous duties are diminished greatly. The Navy only allows women on ships that accommodate a reasonable amount of privacy in their close quarters. This means that men have to take up the slack while Navy women on average get those dream shore jobs, while men get sent out to sea at much greater frequency. So, it is not a mere matter of being equal by meeting physical requirements, but the inequity Females bring to the unfavorable realities of being a male in a so-called "gender neutral" military.

There really are more factors than just the physical capabilities. In combat areas where soldiers are paired up in lonely foxholes at night, lends itself to a security compromise. Now that the homosexuality issue has been politically forced upon the military, Commanders have to know who is dating or who is romantically involved to avoid such compromises. Commanders certainly have more important things to consider. When you are in the middle of the desert, there is no privacy, no tree to go behind to "do your business." You are before God and Country! You try to bathe at night in the open, but that is not always an option. For that reason, those field showers and toilets are in the rear where all the females are! Such distractions are a negative combat multiplier. It makes no Army better or stronger.

But most of all, masculinity is a strong trait in most men in the military. If you are in a pitch battle and Joe gets shot in the leg and wounded next to Fred, Fred will likely continue to fight and tell Joe to shake it off until the battle is over. If a Mary gets shot in the leg next to Fred, his masculinity tends to want to rescue and care for Mary as she screams in pain. This magnifies the potential to take two people out of the battle if one gets wounded. I am all for women in the military dying for their Country equally as men; but no matter what the Government claims, men will always be less "equal" in the equation, and that will lead to discontent and affect performance. If you want "equal" and you do not want "chauvinism," then fight for all females to register for the Draft, and if it is enacted, demand that they cannot get out of it any more than a male can!
 
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marksman

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You know that the very first thing we are to add to our faith (for maturity) according to Peter (2 Pet. 1) is virtue. The Greek word is "arete" which means MANLINESS or fighting spirit. The Greeks honoured arete as a man having a warrior spirit in such men as King Leonidas (the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae)...and such mythic figures as Achilles and Ajax.

King David had this manly attribute in his slaying of Goliath...among other exploits. Without this kind of manly courage, all other attributes fail when testing comes.
Someone said that when David slew Goliath he caught him on the hop because such a thing had never entered his head.
 

mjrhealth

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1. No matter how qualified, men are built as men, and women as women. If the same demanding physical standards for performance were applied across the board, women could not meet them. Conversely transgender men (pretending to be women) are beating them in sports constantly, and everyone is up in arms about this.

2. Females are subject to monthly periods, which affect them emotionally and physiologically. They are built to have babies, and be mothers. Not go out in battle. There is not a single society in human history that sent women out into the battlefield.

3. Men and women do not think in the same way about things in general. That's why someone wrote a book about men being from Mars, women from Venus. This is quite natural, and no one should be surprised. Men do not express their emotions as women, neither do they discuss matters in the same way as women. War is brutal, and women are not. (Not to mention the crude and coarse language of soldiers).

4. Men instinctively want to protect women from harm and danger, which means they could jeopardize a mission because of this instinct.

5. Most critically, when you put men and women in close proximity, the sexual tension rises dramatically and there is no avoiding it. That is a major distraction for soldiers in battle. And then you have all this nonsense about unwanted attention, and the bogus MeToo Movement.

6. Men are not willing or prepared to be led by women, and if you put a woman in charge of troops, there is bound to be resentment (which will spill over into performance under fire). Once again, this is how God has made men and women, and Feminists have tried to overthrow the natural order to emasculate men. And the military leadership in the Western world has already been emasculated to the point that they agreed to allow women into battle. The problem is that no one wants to honestly say what should be said, and the labels of *sexist* and *mysogynist* are used very effectively to deflect from the truth.
In the OT I would agree with you, not in the NT, the OT was all carnal, the flesh, the NT is all the Spirit, so in the case of women being used by God thats His choice, HE has and will do, to manys disgust. As for women in Battle some of Russias greatest Aces where women, in WW2.

Did I leave out, the "church" mens churches are impotent because Gods not in it, its mens doing and He will not have anything to do with mens religions.
 
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Rita

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I sometimes agree with Enoch, but may I say in this case that I would like to distance myself as far as humanly possible from Post #55, LoL.
I am intrigued , In physical war I think a lot of what Enoch has said is true. I am not saying that every single women would not be able to fight in the same way, but certainly there comes a point in time where we do have to accept the reality that men and women were designed and wired in different ways. It’s not a failing, it’s to make us compatible. Women did , and do , play an important part in physical warfare - and equally relevant and important, but on this one I am in agreement with Enoch.
In spiritual warfare I have different views xx
Rita
 
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Hidden In Him

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I am intrigued. In physical war I think a lot of what Enoch has said is true....

Even if all we were discussing in the thread were physical war, in modern warfare there are a number of jobs soldiers fulfill that are not on the front lines. This is not ancient warfare anymore. We live in a technological age. And in a technological age women can play equally important roles. I am referring more specifically to those who serve in communications, radar, military intelligence, spying, and other roles. But some women serve on the front lines. Megan Leavey was a dog trainer who saved many lives through bomb detection in Iraq.

Corporal Megan Leavey and Sergeant Rex | Military dogs, Military working dogs, Working dogs

Just ask the Muslims how they feel about women on the front lines. They're petrified of being killed by a woman in combat, because it means they won't go to Heaven.


ISIS men AFRAID of being killed by women: Christian female fighters taking on jihadis

More to the point, however, this thread is not talking about war in the natural. This thread is about the church, and the context of discussing warfare here is about the war the church must fight, which is a spiritual one. In this, all the focus about men's physical superiority goes flying out the window as completely irrelevant. If he wishes to argue with me on this, he can, but I have more to say.
 
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Nancy

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I sometimes agree with Enoch, but may I say in this case that I would like to distance myself as far as humanly possible from Post #55, LoL.

Lol...I most likely should have as well stayed away from #55, lol. But gee whiz, cannot put 'em all in a box! Being in the Air Force, I did have many opportunities to see the Marines and Army on our bases for different exercises or deployment. And some of those women were pretty pumped up and fit and big! Can you see any "normal" healthy young man turning his head to something that looks like and acts like a man? My guess is he would run away! :) Not that there is no truth to what Enoch said but it is NOT cookie cutter, or it should not be anyhow. If the women desire to fight in the front lines then, yes I agree that they should be trained same as the men. if they don't cut it, then they don't fight, just like if a man washes out. Kay, I'm done :)
 
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Hidden In Him

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Lol...I most likely should have as well stayed away from #55, lol. But gee whiz, cannot put 'em all in a box! Being in the Air Force, I did have many opportunities to see the Marines and Army on our bases for different exercises or deployment. And some of those women were pretty pumped up and fit and big! Can you see any "normal" healthy young man turning his head to something that looks like and acts like a man? My guess is he would run away! :) Not that there is no truth to what Enoch said but it is NOT cookie cutter, or it should not be anyhow. If the women desire to fight in the front lines then, yes I agree that they should be trained same as the men. if they don't cut it, then they don't fight, just like if a man washes out. Kay, I'm done :)


It's a shame you're done. I'd rather read stuff like this than Post #55 any day of the week, LoL.
 
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Rita

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Even if all we were discussing in the thread were physical war, in modern warfare there are a number of jobs soldiers fulfill that are not on the front lines. This is not ancient warfare anymore. We live in a technological age. And in a technological age women can play equally important roles. I am referring more specifically to those who serve in communications, radar, military intelligence, spying, and other roles. But some women serve on the front lines. Megan Leavey was a dog trainer who saved many lives through bomb detection in Iraq.

Corporal Megan Leavey and Sergeant Rex | Military dogs, Military working dogs, Working dogs

Just ask the Muslims how they feel about women on the front lines. They're petrified of being killed by a woman in combat, because it means they won't go to Heaven.


ISIS men AFRAID of being killed by women: Christian female fighters taking on jihadis

More to the point, however, this thread is not talking about war in the natural. This thread is about the church, and the context of discussing warfare here is about the war the church must fight, which is a spiritual one. In this, all the focus about men's physical superiority goes flying out the window as completely irrelevant. If he wishes to argue with me on this, he can, but I have more to say.
I did concur that women had a role to play in war, in context of the physical, I meant on the front lines along side the men - mixed attacks and combat. Perhaps it’s more the reality of men and women being together on the front line, I just don’t think it would work.
Yes, I had heard about Muslims being afraid of being killed by women, it’s probably equally linked to there superiority and the fact that it means the women were stronger if they were killed by one - hence no rewards.

I also concur that I had different views within the realm of spiritual warfare xx
Rita
 
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Hidden In Him

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I did concur that women had a role to play in war, in context of the physical, I meant on the front lines along side the men - mixed attacks and combat. Perhaps it’s more the reality of men and women being together on the front line, I just don’t think it would work.
Yes, I had heard about Muslims being afraid of being killed by women, it’s probably equally linked to there superiority and the fact that it means the women were stronger if they were killed by one - hence no rewards.

I also concur that I had different views within the realm of spiritual warfare xx
Rita


Yes. The points he was making about physical attributes are self-evident, but in the context of discussing the spiritual war they are actually counter-productive and undermining. The LAST thing we need are arguments that create division between men and women in the army of God. Women make up half that army, and I believe I read somewhere that in the end-times they will actually make up the majority of those who are truly doing the most damage to the enemy on the spiritual front lines. So presenting such a post in this particular context is IMO a carnal thing to do, and runs directly contrary to what the Spirit is now saying to the churches.
 
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Hidden In Him

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It entered his head, alright. Entered into his head pretty deeply, in fact, LoL.


David-and-Goliath-funny-real-true-story-7.jpg
 
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VictoryinJesus

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2 Pet. 2:1 is about adding to our faith. I think the modern doctrines are very confused...pitting what we do against what God does.

Yes, I’m confused there. I’m not pitting my own strength against God (I hope not)except where it is my old ways and my old thoughts of ruin. This thread is about women being in submission to their leader in the home and to know their place within the body. Then the other side argument (if I’ve understood correctly) is of women becoming too dominant and strong and presuming roles that is not theirs to assume but instead belongs to the men of higher authority. Maybe you and I can’t communicate well on this topic of our strength and Gods strength and do they coexist. because as a woman I am so confused when the message seems to be a woman with any strength is evil when she should be submissive, as strength belongs to the men. Admittedly I have issues. It is not like I am not trying the listen with an open mind to correction. Read this verse yesterday and was about to post it. Seems to fit here:
Proverbs 26:23-24 Burning lips and a wicked heart are like a potsherd covered with silver dross. [24] He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit within him;

I don’t want to be a dissembler with my lips, laying up deceit within me...covered with silver dross.

Do you think mens wisdom from beneath is against Gods wisdom from above? Or do they also coexist?
 

Episkopos

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Do you think mens wisdom from beneath is against Gods wisdom from above? Or do they also coexist?

Men's wisdom is most surely against God's. But not all of men's actions are so. To feed the hungry and clothe the naked is from men...and for God. He who is not against God, is for God.

So we are a mixed bag of sorts.

The righteous separate the good from the evil. The saints walk in an entirely different power...the power of life in Christ Jesus.
 
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marks

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The church is not impotent. The church is the body of Christ, the children of the Living God, the Creator of all, and we, God's children, are filled with our Creator God in all His power, and that is NOT impotent.

Now, given that so many do not teach faith that believes "He lives in me right now, He is working through me right now", given that many teach "if you aren't measuring up according to me you aren't gettin' any" or some such, given that so many believe, "I don't deserve it, I'm not qualified, Maybe someday", given all these false notions, I'm not too surprised when His children don't walk in His power.

Be it to you according to your faith. Test Him in this! Trust Him.

Much love!
 
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