The Inquisitions

[aspen]

Happy Ash Wednesday

 

[aspen]

The term "Roman Catholic Church" began as a derogatory term during the reign of Henry VIII.

If somebody is going to say "Roman Catholic Church" - there really is no such thing.
The official title of the Catholic Church is "The Catholic Church."

I don't really understand why it is so difficult for people to use that name.

Yeah, its a real bummer when others do not recognize you for who you really are.....oh wait....the catholic Church knows all about that...

 

[epostle1]

Thank you.

People like @Triumph1300 and others that deny history (Protestant Inquisitions) fulfill Matthew 7:3-5.

Respectfully, Mary

PS....I haven't read anywhere that the Protestant Inquisitions were "worse". It seems that did pretty much the same things. Can you qualify that statement? (curious historical Mary)

Don't try and read the whole thing at once.

INTRODUCTORY / OVERVIEW
I don't think you realize how much data you are asking from me.

The Protestant Revolt: Its Tragic Initial Impact
*
Protestant Inquisitions: “Reformation” Intolerance & Persecution
Luther Film (2003): Detailed Catholic Critique
Erasmus on Luther and Protestantism, and Luther on Erasmus [4-27-04] *
Luther’s Attitudes on Religious Liberty (Roland H. Bainton) [2-16-06]
Was Luther “Bloodthirsty” & Violent? (James Swan & I Agree!) [8-29-17]
Armstrong vs. Collins & Walls #13: “Reformed” Censorship & Intolerance [10-26-17]

CATHOLIC MARTYRS OF THE ENGLISH “REFORMATION” (SO-CALLED)

[1375 martyrs of Protestant tyranny documented in four papers]
St. Thomas More: Noble Heroism Amidst Treachery [1991] *

Luther on the Deaths of Zwingli, St. Thomas More, & St. John Fisher [11-30-07; expanded on 10-31-17]

430 Catholic Martyrs Murdered by Henry VIII (1534-1544) [2-6-08]

312 Catholic Martyrs & Confessors Under “Good Queen Bess” (Queen Elizabeth: r. 1558-1603) [2-8-08]

189 English Catholic Martyrs & Heroic Confessors: 1603-1729 [2-16-08]

444 Irish Catholic Martyrs and Heroic Confessors: 1565-1713 [2-27-08]
*
Discussion on Whether the English Revolution (aka “Reformation”) was a “Terrorist” Campaign [Facebook, 9-16-14]

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (ON THE CONTINENT) FOR HAVING DIFFERENT BELIEFS

Luther Favored the Death Penalty for Anabaptists [2-24-04]
*
Philip Melanchthon: Death for Denying the Real Presence (He Later Denied the Real Presence Himself) [5-23-06]
*
Lord Acton on Melanchthon and Persecution of Heretics for Denial of the Real Presence and Various Other Crimes [5-29-06] *

*
John Calvin’s Advocacy of Capital Punishment and Persecution of Those Whom He Considers “Blasphemers” or Heretics (Catholics, Anabaptists, Etc.) [6-1-09]
*
Protestant “Reformer” Martin Bucer Advocated Death for Adulterers [9-18-09; posted to Facebook on 2-6-17]
*
Luther: Execute Adulterers, Witches, Frigid Wives, & Prostitutes [12-20-07 and 2-22-10]
*
John Calvin: Torment of an Inept Execution “Special Will of God” [3-23-10]
*
John Calvin’s Mocking of Michael Servetus’s Initial Reaction to His Death Sentence (Burning at the Stake) [3-25-10; posted to Facebook on 8-30-17]
*
John Calvin Reiterates His Support of Capital Punishment for Heresy in 1557: Four Years After Servetus’ Execution [11-6-11]
*
Reply to Reformed Luther Apologist James Swan’s Request for Documentation of Executions of Anabaptists Sanctioned by Luther, in the 1530s [8-17-14]
*
Calvin the “Destroyer” of Servetus: James Swan Misses Forest for Trees [8-24-17]
*
PLUNDERING AND THEFT OF CATHOLIC CHURCH PROPERTIES

Dialogue on 16th-Century Christians and Religious Tolerance (With Attempted Analogies to Communists, Muslims, and Pagan Romans) (vs. “CPA”) [2-15-06] *
*
16th Century Theft of Church Properties (vs. Lutheran Historian) [2-22-06]
Calvinist Iconoclasm Against Lutherans and Lutheran Liturgical and Material Suppression (By Outright Theft) of Catholics [3-21-07] *

Lutheran Josh S. Attempts to Rationalize and Justify the Wholesale Plunder, Theft, and Confiscation of the Protestant “Reformation” [5-21-07] *

 

[epostle1]

“Reformation” Theft of Thousands of Catholic Churches [4-12-08]

“Reformation” Theft of Catholic Church Properties and Supposed Catholic Apologetic “Blind Spots” [4-20-08] *

OPPOSITION TO CO-EXISTENCE WITH CATHOLICS AND THE MASS (“ANTI-ECUMENISM”)

The Real Diet of Augsburg (1530) vs. the Protestant Myth [3-3-04]
*
Regensburg (1541) & Poissy (1561): Protestant “Ecumenism”? [4-27-04]
*
Just Reward for the Most Satanic Pope and His Cardinals: Cranach’s “hanging” woodcut, commissioned by Luther (photo and short description) [6-9-04] *
*
Is Lutheranism Officially Anti-Catholic (The Book of Concord and the Catholic Mass)? (vs. “BWL”) [4-26-05] *

*The Early Protestants Were Ecumenical? NOT! (+ Part II) (vs. Dr. Paul Owen) [11-9-04 and 9-7-05] *
Birth and Origin of the Pope: Cranach’s vulgar woodcut, commissioned by Luther (photo and short description) [9-22-05] *
*
Word “Protestant” Stemmed from Intolerance of Catholic Worship [2-8-06]
*
The “Moderate” Heinrich Bullinger: More Evidence of Rabid Anti-Catholicism in the Protestant Founders [1-16-07] *

*
Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue #3: Comparative Ecclesiology / Grace and Merit / Lutheran View of the Mass Compared to the Catholic View of Lutheran Worship [11-19-07] *
*
Life in Calvin’s Geneva: the Protestant Panacea and City on a Hill? [9-11-09] *
*
Armstrong vs. Collins & Walls #13: “Reformed” Censorship & Intolerance [10-26-17]
*
ANTI-CATHOLIC PENAL LAWS
English Protestant Penal Laws and Extraordinary Persecution of Catholics: 1559-1829 [3-10-08] *
*
The Marvelous Religious Freedom of Catholics in “Reformation” Scotland (Up Till 1829) [3-10-08] *
*
English Protestant Persecution and Deprivation of the Religious Freedom of Irish Catholics: 1536-1829 and Beyond [3-10-08] *
*
Penal Laws Against Catholics in the English Colonies in America: 1606-1789 [3-10-08] *
*
ICONOCLASM (DESTRUCTION OF ART AS “IDOLATRY”) / EDUCATION

Early Protestant Antipathy Towards Art (+ Iconoclasm) [1991]
Astonishing Hostility to Higher Education in Early Protestantism [1991]

Calvin, Calvinism, and Violent Iconoclasm [7-4-04] *
*
Discussion With a Reformed Protestant (Catholic) on Art, Early Protestantism, and Catholic Corruption (vs. Kevin Johnson) [7-5-04] *

Calvinist Iconoclasm Against Lutherans and Lutheran Liturgical and Material Suppression (By Outright Theft) of Catholics [3-21-07] *

Dialogue on Jihadist & 16th Century Calvinist Iconoclasm (vs. David Scott) [10-7-13]

INTER-PROTESTANT INTOLERANCE

Sacramentarian Controversies (Calvin vs. Luther vs. Zwingli) [3-29-04]
*
Eucharistic Real Presence: Luther’s Magnificent Defense [6-21-04]
*
“Absurd” Protestant Divisions: Calvin’s Revealing Lament to Melanchthon [2-6-06]
*
Philip Melanchthon’s Agony Over Protestant Sectarianism [2-8-06]
*
Melanchthon in 1530 Longed for Return of Catholic Bishops [11-30-07]
*
Luther on the Deaths of Zwingli, St. Thomas More, & St. John Fisher [11-30-07; expanded on 10-31-17]
*
John Calvin Disses Lutheranism, Describes it as “Evil” and Worse Than Catholicism In Its Persecutions of Calvinists [12-18-07] *

Zwingli, Bucer, Oecolampadius: Luther & Lutherans Not Christians [1-10-08]
*
Quiz on Early Protestant / “Reformation” Eucharistic Harmony [8-23-09]
*
Luther’s Disgust Over Rampant Protestant Sectarianism and Radical Heresies; Can’t See the Connection with Sola Scriptura and Private Judgment [3-1-10] *
*
Lutheran Edward Reiss Says I Can’t Claim Luther Was in “Agony” Over Protestant Sectarianism, Even Though Luther Himself Said Exactly That! [3-10-10] *
*
John Calvin’s Disgusted Agony Over Genevan Morals, Personal Betrayal, Dissension of Lutheran “Beasts,” Etc. / Inflated Self-Comparison to King David [3-23-10] *
*
John Calvin Rebukes Lutheran “Beasts” and “Evil”, Calls Luther an Idolater [3-23-10; posted to Facebook on 8-26-17]

Melanchthon’s Agonized Tears Over Early Protestant Divisions [6-15-11; additions on 10-11-17]

Early Protestant “Unity”: Calvin vs. Westphal vs. Luther [11-6-11]
*
Armstrong vs. Collins & Walls #13: “Reformed” Censorship & Intolerance [10-26-17]

GERMAN PEASANTS’ REVOLT (1524-1525)

Martin Luther’s Inflammatory Rhetoric and the Peasants’ Revolt (1524-1525) (+ Part II) [10-31-03]

Read more at Protestantism: Historic Persecution & Intolerance (Index Page)

 

[Marymog]

Don't try and read the whole thing at once.

INTRODUCTORY / OVERVIEW
I don't think you realize how much data you are asking from me.

The Protestant Revolt: Its Tragic Initial Impact
*
Protestant Inquisitions: “Reformation” Intolerance & Persecution
Luther Film (2003): Detailed Catholic Critique
Erasmus on Luther and Protestantism, and Luther on Erasmus [4-27-04] *
Luther’s Attitudes on Religious Liberty (Roland H. Bainton) [2-16-06]
Was Luther “Bloodthirsty” & Violent? (James Swan & I Agree!) [8-29-17]
Armstrong vs. Collins & Walls #13: “Reformed” Censorship & Intolerance [10-26-17]

CATHOLIC MARTYRS OF THE ENGLISH “REFORMATION” (SO-CALLED)

[1375 martyrs of Protestant tyranny documented in four papers]
St. Thomas More: Noble Heroism Amidst Treachery [1991] *

Luther on the Deaths of Zwingli, St. Thomas More, & St. John Fisher [11-30-07; expanded on 10-31-17]

430 Catholic Martyrs Murdered by Henry VIII (1534-1544) [2-6-08]

312 Catholic Martyrs & Confessors Under “Good Queen Bess” (Queen Elizabeth: r. 1558-1603) [2-8-08]

189 English Catholic Martyrs & Heroic Confessors: 1603-1729 [2-16-08]

444 Irish Catholic Martyrs and Heroic Confessors: 1565-1713 [2-27-08]
*
Discussion on Whether the English Revolution (aka “Reformation”) was a “Terrorist” Campaign [Facebook, 9-16-14]

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (ON THE CONTINENT) FOR HAVING DIFFERENT BELIEFS

Luther Favored the Death Penalty for Anabaptists [2-24-04]
*
Philip Melanchthon: Death for Denying the Real Presence (He Later Denied the Real Presence Himself) [5-23-06]
*
Lord Acton on Melanchthon and Persecution of Heretics for Denial of the Real Presence and Various Other Crimes [5-29-06] *

*
John Calvin’s Advocacy of Capital Punishment and Persecution of Those Whom He Considers “Blasphemers” or Heretics (Catholics, Anabaptists, Etc.) [6-1-09]
*
Protestant “Reformer” Martin Bucer Advocated Death for Adulterers [9-18-09; posted to Facebook on 2-6-17]
*
Luther: Execute Adulterers, Witches, Frigid Wives, & Prostitutes [12-20-07 and 2-22-10]
*
John Calvin: Torment of an Inept Execution “Special Will of God” [3-23-10]
*
John Calvin’s Mocking of Michael Servetus’s Initial Reaction to His Death Sentence (Burning at the Stake) [3-25-10; posted to Facebook on 8-30-17]
*
John Calvin Reiterates His Support of Capital Punishment for Heresy in 1557: Four Years After Servetus’ Execution [11-6-11]
*
Reply to Reformed Luther Apologist James Swan’s Request for Documentation of Executions of Anabaptists Sanctioned by Luther, in the 1530s [8-17-14]
*
Calvin the “Destroyer” of Servetus: James Swan Misses Forest for Trees [8-24-17]
*
PLUNDERING AND THEFT OF CATHOLIC CHURCH PROPERTIES

Dialogue on 16th-Century Christians and Religious Tolerance (With Attempted Analogies to Communists, Muslims, and Pagan Romans) (vs. “CPA”) [2-15-06] *
*
16th Century Theft of Church Properties (vs. Lutheran Historian) [2-22-06]
Calvinist Iconoclasm Against Lutherans and Lutheran Liturgical and Material Suppression (By Outright Theft) of Catholics [3-21-07] *

Lutheran Josh S. Attempts to Rationalize and Justify the Wholesale Plunder, Theft, and Confiscation of the Protestant “Reformation” [5-21-07] *

Thank you....I will get back to you next week with all this reading.

I already know about the numbers of people that suffered in both inquisitions. What made the Protestant Inquisition "worse" than the Catholics?

A brief summary of all those links would be great.

Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yeah, its a real bummer when others do not recognize you for who you really are.....oh wait....the catholic Church knows all about that...

???

 

[epostle1]

Thank you....I will get back to you next week with all this reading.

I already know about the numbers of people that suffered in both inquisitions. What made the Protestant Inquisition "worse" than the Catholics?

A brief summary of all those links would be great.

Mary

The information you are looking for is in the links provided. They are already brief summaries. Ask yourself how many reformers were sent to their deaths because they didn't agree with the Pope, (0) or how many Protestants were drawn and quartered by Catholics, or how many Protestant churches were sacked and/or stolen by Catholics, (0) and then there is Protestants persecuting Protestants; there is a whole section on that. An overview of the documented links shows the Protestant Inquisition was worse, it just takes a little effort to plow through the volume. I can't spoon feed you a steak.

 

[Triumph1300]

People like @Triumph1300 and others that deny history (Protestant Inquisitions) fulfill Matthew 7:3-5.

What do you know about what I deny or not deny?
Anyone who kills and torture people to make them believe what they believe are not Christians.
Both are liars.
Makes no difference wether they are Roman Catholics or Protestants.
Both can call and name themselves what they want.
So, Marymog, you should stop putting words into other peoples mouths.

 

[Marymog]

What do you know about what I deny or not deny?
Anyone who kills and torture people to make them believe what they believe are not Christians.
Both are liars.
Makes no difference wether they are Roman Catholics or Protestants.
Both can call and name themselves what they want.
So, Marymog, you should stop putting words into other peoples mouths.

Dear sir,

Here we are. One week since the day I have asked you: Why is your focus only on the Catholic Inquisitions???

And still no answer.

I have not put words in your mouth sir. The words of acknowledging our Christian history and acknowledging the brutal Protestant Inquisitions have not come out of your mouth.

Silence = denial

Mary

 

[epostle1]

What do you know about what I deny or not deny?
Anyone who kills and torture people to make them believe what they believe are not Christians.
Both are liars.
Makes no difference wether they are Roman Catholics or Protestants.
Both can call and name themselves what they want.
So, Marymog, you should stop putting words into other peoples mouths.

The links I gave are verified by Protestant, Catholic and secular historians, there is no room for doctrinal bias. No one is accusing anyone of lying.

 

[Helen]

@Marymog

I clearly saw @Triumph1300 say.. I quote him-

"Makes no difference wether they are Roman Catholics or Protestants."

We have (all) mostly already said in this thread...it has been Roman Catholic and Protestants..we agree.
What more do you want?

Bless you..H

 

[Marymog]

@Marymog

I clearly saw @Triumph1300 say.. I quote him-

"Makes no difference wether they are Roman Catholics or Protestants."

We have (all) mostly already said in this thread...it has been Roman Catholic and Protestants..we agree.
What more do you want?

Bless you..H

If it makes no difference then why only point out and focus on the Catholic Inquisition? It makes a difference to me.

Curious Mary

 

[Helen]

If it makes no difference then why only point out and focus on the Catholic Inquisition? It makes a difference to me.

Curious Mary

The bottom line is...we are not supposed to kill anyone..not even "In the name of the Lord" !!!

As usual the thread has wiggled all over the place since the OP.

Bless you....H

 

[Marymog]

The bottom line is...we are not supposed to kill anyone..not even "In the name of the Lord" !!!

As usual the thread has wiggled all over the place since the OP.

Bless you....H

Dear BG,

The OP only mentioned the....and I quote "Ecclesiastical Inquisition, Spanish Inquisition and Roman Inquisition".

Do you see Protestant Inquisitions mentioned? The original post started out with dishonesty. A denial of our Christian history.

How about if we "wiggle" into THE TRUTH and talk about The Inquisition's?

Everyone throw away your anti-Catholic bias and speak THE TRUTH on this subject. That is all I am asking for. I don't think that is unreasonable.

Mary

 

[tabletalk]

epostle1 is Kepha31, I think.

Dear BG,

The OP only mentioned the....and I quote "Ecclesiastical Inquisition, Spanish Inquisition and Roman Inquisition".

Do you see Protestant Inquisitions mentioned? The original post started out with dishonesty. A denial of our Christian history.

How about if we "wiggle" into THE TRUTH and talk about The Inquisition's?

Everyone throw away your anti-Catholic bias and speak THE TRUTH on this subject. That is all I am asking for. I don't think that is unreasonable.

Mary

You said: "The original post started out with dishonesty. A denial of our Christian history."

The O.P. states: Using these two sources, and any others submitted, I hope to get the facts of this "tormented phase in the history of the Church" (per Pope John Paul 11)(from CERC).

That is not dishonest.

 

[Marymog]

epostle1 is Kepha31, I think.




You said: "The original post started out with dishonesty. A denial of our Christian history."

The O.P. states: Using these two sources, and any others submitted, I hope to get the facts of this "tormented phase in the history of the Church" (per Pope John Paul 11)(from CERC).

That is not dishonest.

The dishonesty comes in when the title of the thread is The Inquisition's...and then the OP leaves out the Protestant Inquisitions and referencing only the Catholic Inquisition's.

Can you quote a Protestant preacher apologizing for their Inquisitions?

Mary

 

[aspen]

Isn’t our job as Christians to present the gospel and if it is rejected, to dust off our feet and move on? Seems to be applicable here

 

[GodsGrace]

But at least we know how it started with a fallen angel.

It goes back further than that...
But it's a good start there, I guess.

 

[epostle1]

epostle1 is Kepha31, I think.

That's true. The site would no longer accept my password no matter what I did. I had to start over.

You said: "The original post started out with dishonesty. A denial of our Christian history."

The O.P. states: Using these two sources, and any others submitted, I hope to get the facts of this "tormented phase in the history of the Church" (per Pope John Paul 11)(from CERC).

That is not dishonest.[/QUOTE]
Extreme bias the way the "facts" are presented IS DISHONEST. Including a highly selective list of 2 recources, one of them an 18th century bigot who had no access to the archives where all this stuff got recorded. So that's ONE source that's missing all the other statements Pope JP said on the subject. You can't just hit-and-run on such a complex topic, saying JP2 said such-and such on one occasion, and claim honesty.

The principle upon which the Inquisition was built is entirely defensible; indeed, Catholics everywhere have the duty to defend it. The Church was given by Christ Himself the mission of safeguarding the deposit of faith from distortion or corruption (cf. Mt. 28:16-20; Mk. 16:14-20; Jn. 21:15-19; 1 Thess. 2:13; Jude 3; Catechism, nos. 84-90, 172-75, 813-16).

However, we must distinguish between this principle and the means by which the faith should be defended. The Church herself, as evidenced in the Catechism, does not defend the regrettable practices of the Inquisition: Aspen doesn't get it and he doesn't care.

The Spanish Inquisition is the most notorious of the inquisitions for three reasons.

First, it was more cruel precisely because it was administered by the secular government. Second, it was concerned, in large part, with the conversos. These were Jews who had converted either under duress or out of social convenience, and were suspected of secretly practicing the Jewish faith.
And third, it has been the main target of Protestant and secular opponents of Catholicism who have fabricated through pamphlets, histories, plays, and even paintings cruelties and excesses far beyond what actually occurred.​

The Truth about the Spanish Inquisition <not a Catholic publication

 

[Marymog]

Isn’t our job as Christians to present the gospel and if it is rejected, to dust off our feet and move on? Seems to be applicable here

Hi aspen,

I'm curious. What do you mean by "present the gospel"?

Present everyone a bible? Or Present our version (interpretation) of the gospel?

I agree with you: If someone rejects the gospel we should dust off our feet and move on.

If someone teaches or practices heresy, what are we to do with them? That is what the Inquisition's were about. Not the rejection of the gospel, like you seem to believe, but a twisting of scripture.

Historical Mary