The Insanity of the "right" to have guns!

[Jim B]

See. This is why many keep saying silly things like:…. “But what if your family was faced with this guy with a gun and, he does this or that?”

What of it?

If the Lord Jesus taught me Non-Violence (of which I believe He clearly did), that is something I must accept. The import thing for me to do is to obey Jesus Christ. That’s more important to me than anything else.

We will all have to give an answer for what we do in this life. Did you trust your gun or did you trust God and Scripture? That’s why Scripture is rarely brought up in this topic as much. The gun carrying defender must focus more on things outside of the Bible (or their own thoughts) to prove what they believe is true. But our faith rests first in what God’s Word says and not in what we say or think. For our thoughts are not God’s thoughts.

People carry guns for one reason only: fear. That is the opposite of faith. One either trusts God or doesn't.

With all the persecution that Paul suffered, not once did he resort to any form of retaliation. If anyone takes matters into their own hands then they no longer trust God.

 

[Jim B]

Did Jesus encourage the apostles to carry weapons to protect themselves (presumably from bandits who would attack them as they traveled)? Of course He did: Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (Luke 22:36). Swords in those days would have been similar to guns.

Now here is something which should be carefully noted. The apostles were carrying swords as they traveled with Christ and when they entered Gethsemane. Hence these two verses.
When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? (Luke 22:49)

And Peter actually used his sword to defend Christ: Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. (John 18:10)

Now since believing Jesus is the same as believing the New Testament, Bible Highlighter should live up to his screen name and highlight these verses, and ponder on their significance. When the apostles were persecuted for being Christians, they did not resist persecution. But it is clear that they were allowed to defend themselves against criminals and evildoers.

Luke 22:47-53, in context: "While he was still speaking, suddenly a crowd appeared, and the man named Judas, one of the twelve, was leading them. He walked up to Jesus to kiss him. But Jesus said to him, “Judas, would you betray the Son of Man with a kiss?” When those who were around him saw what was about to happen, they said, “Lord, should we use our swords?” [no answer from Jesus!] Then one of them struck the high priest’s slave, cutting off his right ear. [now He replies] But Jesus said, “Enough of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him. Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders who had come out to get him, “Have you come out with swords and clubs like you would against an outlaw? Day after day when I was with you in the temple courts, you did not arrest me. But this is your hour, and that of the power of darkness!” NET

It is a distortion bordering on blasphemy to justify violence using this scenario. You clearly don't understand eisegesis: the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Did Jesus encourage the apostles to carry weapons to protect themselves (presumably from bandits who would attack them as they traveled)? Of course He did: Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (Luke 22:36). Swords in those days would have been similar to guns.

#1. The main purpose of the swords was to fulfill the prophecy of Jesus being numbered with the transgressors (See: Luke 22:37).
#2. The disciples technically did not obey this instruction in the moment. They did not each sell their garment for them to each have a sword, but they brought forth only two swords (See: Luke 22:38).
#3. Jesus said the two swords were enough - which appears to go against his original instruction for them to each have a sword (Luke 22:38). We know our Lord does not contradict himself, and so the purpose of these swords was to of course shortly fulfill prophecy.
#4. In Matthew 26:47-56, we learn the result of what happened involving the swords. No victory battle was won. No lesson of self defense using Violence was taught.
#5. In Matthew 26:47-56, we learn a lesson of Non-Violence involving the sword:
(a) Jesus rebukes Peter for chopping off Malchus’ ear (in using his sword) and say he that lives by the sword shall die by the sword.
(b) Jesus rebukes Peter for using his sword by telling him to put his sword back in its place.
(c) Jesus rebukes Peter for using his sword by telling him that He could have asked the Father to send down twelve legions of angels to protect Him.
(d) Jesus undoes Peter’s damage by healing Malchus’ ear.
#6. Jesus said to buy a sword and He did not say to buy bow and arrows or a gun.
#7. If the “sell your coat and buy a sword instruction” of Luke 22:36 still applied to the disciples after the prophecy, and Jesus desired them to go out and still sell their coat or garments to buy a sword for each of themselves, then this would have to be with Non-Violence in mind because Jesus made it clear with Peter that he that lives by the sword shall die by the sword. So this means that the purpose of the sword would have to be for Non-Violent reasons. Meaning, they could use the sword to chop wood, cut meat, hunt, and keep the dangerous animal kingdom away; But not for violent purposes against man (As demonstrated by Jesus with Peter). So if we are to obey this instruction today, then take a sword into the forest with you to survive. Perhaps it could even be a gun (if you take the word sword as meaning to be any weapon), but this again would be for survival in the wilderness involving the animal kingdom and for you to eat, and it would not be in using self defense involving Violence.

Now here is something which should be carefully noted. The apostles were carrying swords as they traveled with Christ and when they entered Gethsemane. Hence these two verses.
When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? (Luke 22:49)

And Peter actually used his sword to defend Christ: Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. (John 18:10)

Now since believing Jesus is the same as believing the New Testament, Bible Highlighter should live up to his screen name and highlight these verses, and ponder on their significance. When the apostles were persecuted for being Christians, they did not resist persecution. But it is clear that they were allowed to defend themselves against criminals and evildoers.

It looks like you are ignoring the context in other gospels, friend. Jesus rebuked Peter for taking up the sword (See: Matthew 26:47-56).

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen @amigo de christo !

I rarely read long posts but yours was excellent!

I rarely read long posts too , due to the fact that most can be long winded and yet the words POINT NOT TO CHRIST .
A simple word that points to JESUS gives my soul both peace and rest
An entire book of mens wisdom gives me naught but unease of my soul .
YET the bible a book which contains sixty six books , GIVETH PEACE to my soul . ALSO it brings correction
and often sharpens me up . But the words of men , no matter what is said , cannot give me peace . ONLY TRUTH CAN .
And TRUTH cometh of GOD and would always exalt and point to the truth . many cannot grasp this .
I could sit and read the longest letters , IF said letters contained the truth . YET if not , I RUN and RUN FAST
nearly puking and half dead from the effects of said wisdom of men .
THE PROBLEM IS , most are the opposite . IF mens wisdom appears they can sit and heed it for hours upon days
YET one line of truth and they run for the hills . A lamb knoweth TRUTH and LOVES IT . FOR TRUTH not only COMES FROM
GOD , GOD is , CHRIST IS THE TRUTH . AND THE LOVE OF TRUTH is well planted on the heart of a lamb .
WHEN i say ye are saved by grace and not of us , ITS DIRE TRUTH . THE TRUE GRACE OF GOD, HOWEVER
points us not to the world nor its wisdom , but unto GOD , unto Christ .

 

[Lambano]

I remember when I was in the military I had a special bayonet for my M-16 and wanted one of those 50 caliber desert eagles. Reminds me of the good ol' days:

I saw a gold-plated one of these for sale. I decided there were better ways for me to spend $2K (now $3K)

 

[amigo de christo]

The problem is that the gun carrying Christians think things are random in life and evil falls upon all people by the random throw of the dice outside of God’s will. They don’t believe Romans 8:28. Why? Perhaps they are not loving God to truly know? Maybe they are justifying sin and they don’t have an assurance that God is going to truly work all things for good in their life? I don’t know that answer. Only God does. But its strange,

They keep saying silly things like:
“Yeah, but what if this bad thing happened to you?
Or this bad thing happened to you?”

I will say:
“Nope.
All things (good and bad) work together for good to
those who love God. Romans 8:28.
Read it.”​

Now, I believe there is a kind of bad that happens to unbelievers or sinners that is different for a believer. Because not all things are working for good to those who don’t love God. That’s the scenario the gun carrying person is trying to paint. They are trying to make us as if we don’t love God and that all things don’t work together for good to those who love God. They don’t believe Romans 8:28, and Psalms 91:10-12 is really true. They don’t full accept the truth of these verses.

Yet the problem with this church age is , THEY think that if one suffers or loses things , THAT MEANS ITS BAD .
WHEN IN TRUTH , IF the loss of those things draws us only closer to GOD , TO only being able to trust iN HE ALONE
I TELL US ALL THIS IS A GREAT BEAUTY i would not trade in for all the riches of this world .
TOO many are under a wrong mindset . THEY think and believe one is cursed if they suffer loss
they think we KINGS KIDS and thus if GOD loved us HE WOULD BLESS US with much money and great health .
WHEN IN TRUTH , the GREATEST BLESSING OF ALL , IS TO SIMPLY KNOW HE WHO CAN SAVE US and HAS SAVED US only more .
Most folks have no idea what it means to be blesssed of GOD .
SO let me remind us of what JESUS taught and what HE called a blessing .
FIRST i remind us of what the false men say . BLESSED ARE YE OF GOD when your houses get bigger , your money grows
and life is easy .
YET JESUS SAID , BLESSED ARE YOU , WHEN MEN HATE YOU , WHEN YE ARE PERSECUTED .
PAUL said he counted the LOSS of all things as only gain for JESUS
and counted them all as but dung to win Christ .
I also see the same folks are quick to pray against their enemies , to pick up arms , to have hope in whatever man
or govt can give them an easier life . YET I SAY i could live as a king under any condition . I COULD SING in prison .
I can sing no matter what i lose for CHRIST . cause MY HOME aint HERE , MY KINGDOM AINT OF THIS WORLD
And thus my HOPE aint in it or its men and politics . I EXPECT TRIBULATION . AND I KNOW MY GOD WILL BE WITH ME
THROUGH IT ALL . I GOT ONE HOME , ONE KINGDOM , ONE TREASURE , AND IT AINT HERE , ITS ABOVE my friend .
SO no matter what comes against me , I KNOW MY GOD SHALL BE WITH ME . NO matter what i will suffer
I KNOW it will not only work to my GOOD but that i too will be able to help others through as well .
MY HOPE IS NOT OF THIS WORLD . ITS JESUS CHRIST . LEt this world do to me as it will . SO LONG as I HAVE CHRIST
THAT ALONE IS ALL THAT MATTTERS TO ME . PEROID . And my prayer and hope for even those who hate me most
IS they will too come to CHRIST . MY FRIEND I HAVE BEEN SET FREE . JESUS SETS US FREE .
TO SUFFER FOR HIM IS gain , TO DIE FOR HIM IS GAIN . THERE is nothing for me in this world .
FOR ME the only treasure , hope , riches , life and life abundant , IS JESUS CHRIST . THEY can keep the rest
I have MY REST , HIS NAME IS JESUS . HOW I PRAY FOLKS WILL LEARN THIS FAST .

 

[amigo de christo]

They, they, they. Blah, blah, blah. I'm putting you on ignore.

P.S. There is no such thing as the "fememinst movement".

Tell that to THE FEMINIST MOVMENT . THEY even call it that .
All i can do is pray for you my friend . I desire only good for you no matter how you feel about me .
I was far worse than most , yet GOD sent grace to me . SO my hope for you IS only good .
Get back IN that BIBLE and learn THAT JESUS cause i am telling you too many are following another jesus which cannot save .

 

[dev553344]

I saw a gold-plated one of these for sale. I decided there were better ways for me to spend $2K (now $3K)

I saw one at a gun show we went to. It was black. My drill instructor was a 50 caliber gun marine in his squad. He was pretty big and strong and demo'd the 50 cal machine gun for us in boot camp. It had high explosive rounds in it. It was the most impressive use of power I have ever seen from a gun. He pummeled a vehicle tank and punched thru the armor with the H.E. rounds.

They also launched a jeep into the air with a claymore. Fun days in the military.

I got to run an M-60 out of a Huey door for a trip up to Canada in the woods.

Lots of good memories. And it really was leaps beyond boyscouts and shooting and hunting with family and friends.

 

[amigo de christo]

I saw one at a gun show we went to. It was black. My drill instructor was a 50 caliber gun marine in his squad. He was pretty big and strong and demo'd the 50 cal machine gun for us in boot camp. It had high explosive rounds in it. It was the most impressive use of power I have ever seen from a gun. He pummeled a vehicle tank and punched thru the armor with the H.E. rounds.

They also launched a jeep into the air with a claymore. Fun days in the military.

I got to run an M-60 out of a Huey door for a trip up to Canada in the woods.

Lots of good memories. And it really was leaps beyond boyscouts and shooting and hunting with family and friends.

Are you sure the demonstration of the fifty cal was not in SOI or MCT .
My friend i was in the marines long ago as well . But now are in a whole new army . Where our weapons are not carnal
but spiritual . I was in boot camp from march twenty fourth till june nineteenth of nine teen hundred and ninety two .
I bet you were close to the same time line .
SO heed this . IF you were infantry you will probably remember well
what crossing fields of fire , avenues of approach and covering said lines means .
What twenty five percent alert , fifty percent and seventy fire percent and one hundred percent alert means .
WELL in this day and age we are in the hundred percent alert mode .
THE ENEMY has broken the lines my friend , AND EVERY LAMB in EVERY FIGHTING HOLE must be awake
and the WALL OF IRON FIRE MUST be unleashed . EVERY MAN FIRIING HIS SPIRITUAL WEAPON OF TRUTH .
EVERY GUN blazing , THE ENEMY IS ALL OVER THE PLACE and is upon us . LET THAT IRON WALL OF FIRE BE UNLEASHED
lest HE TAKES the camp of christendom . DO you remeber intersecting fields of fire .
Remember there were two of us to a fighting hole . Each man had his own area to cover and both areas
would over lap one another , as well as each fire hole would do the same .
SO as all areas were covered by fire power . Also if you can remember we had certain alert status .
Twenty five percent meant out of two fire holes one man was to be awake and three could sleep .
FIFTY percent meant TWO , half of them , one in each hole had to be awake .
Seventy five percent meant three and one hundred meant all four .
THE ENEMY is not far off , HE IS AT THE DOOR my friend . WE HAVE NOT TIME LEFT . PICK UP THAT BIBLE
and FIRE ROUNDS and i say this to all christains , cause the enemy will take all . WE MUST DEFEND the TRUTH faith
WHILE there is still time to do so .

 

[Mantis]

People carry guns for one reason only: fear. That is the opposite of faith. One either trusts God or doesn't.

With all the persecution that Paul suffered, not once did he resort to any form of retaliation. If anyone takes matters into their own hands then they no longer trust God.

I trust God completely and I think I am indestructible until my testimony is over. I carry a gun because I can. Freedom, it is something that most people just can't understand. A novel concept to many.

 

[amigo de christo]

I trust God completely and I think I am indestructible until my testimony is over. I carry a gun because I can. Freedom, it is something that most people just can't understand. A novel concept to many.

Freedom is something that most do not understand . ON that you are right .
But my freedom is of Christ and no man , no situtation not even death itself can take that freedom from me .
SURE the world can strip me of all , of my house , my goods , put me in prison , YET STILL i am FREE .
FOR my freedom is not based on my situations in this world . ITS JESUS CHRIST . I LIVE FREE and SHALL DIE FREE .
MY END IS GOOD and far better than anything this world can offer .

 

[amigo de christo]

If I had nothing but prison and torture , STILL i would be free . A freedom this world can never give , IN JESUS DO I HAVE .

 

[Stan B]

To encourage you, I would recommend checking out this Christian DVD.

Watch Polycarp | Prime Video

It’s availabil free on Tubi

 

[Jim B]

I trust God completely and I think I am indestructible until my testimony is over. I carry a gun because I can. Freedom, it is something that most people just can't understand. A novel concept to many.

Oh, but you understand freedom (unlike most people). Please enlighten us!

 

[Enoch111]

It is a distortion bordering on blasphemy to justify violence using this scenario. You clearly don't understand eisegesis: the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas.

How can it be a "distortion" to quote the exact words of Christ as recorded in Luke 22? So let's go back and see that Christ was definitely NOT rebuking the apostles for arming themselves with swords. As a matter of fact He recommended the purchase of a weapon for those who had none:

LUKE 22: CHRIST HAS NO OBJECTION TO THE APOSTLES ARMING THEMSELVES
35And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

So in verse 37, we see Jesus prophesying about His crucifixion, and when two malefactors were crucified with Him, one on the left hand and one on the right, that prophecy was fulfilled. He was indeed numbered with the transgressors.

And it is because Christ would not only be crucified, by rise from the dead, and ascend back to Heaven, that he encouraged His apostles to arm themselves for self-protection and self-defence. Not to attack anyone nor to resist when persecuted for the sake of the Gospels. In those days travel was hazardous (as we know from the parable of the Good Samaritan). So it was prudent for travelers (including the apostles) to be able to defend themselves against bandits and robbers.

It is clear that some here have become so defensive about their false ideas that they now choose to personally attack those who disagree. But someone has said that the pen is mightier than the sword, so all their arguments are demolished with plain Scriptures. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between justifying violence and justifying self-defense (which is perfectly legitimate).

 

[Stan B]

To encourage you, I would recommend checking out this Christian DVD.

Watch Polycarp | Prime Video

I watched this movie this afternoon. One of the truly great movies of the Faith!!

A companion of the Apostle John, and a great addendum to the Church of Smyrna (Rev2), where Polycarp was Bishop, a church of persecution.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

People carry guns for one reason only: fear. That is the opposite of faith. One either trusts God or doesn't.

With all the persecution that Paul suffered, not once did he resort to any form of retaliation. If anyone takes matters into their own hands then they no longer trust God.

oh boy

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I watched this movie this afternoon. One of the truly great movies of the Faith!!

A companion of the Apostle John, and a great addendum to the Church of Smyrna (Rev2), where Polycarp was Bishop, a church of persecution.

I am glad you liked Polycarp.

It is one of my favorite Christian films. If you liked that Christian movie, you may like my other recommendations here:

My Christian DVD Collection.

Blessings be unto you in the Lord.

Side Note:

I believe in New Testament Non-Violence. So one of the films that was in my Christian DVD collection was Hacksaw Ridge. However, once I learned of the many wrong beliefs of the SDA church, I threw it out of my collection. It’s unfortunate because it is a good movie to teach Non-Violence, but it’s not entirely biblical. Worth a watch at least once if you believe in NT Non-Violence.

 

[Jim B]

oh boy

Great in-depth reply.

 

[Jim B]

How can it be a "distortion" to quote the exact words of Christ as recorded in Luke 22? So let's go back and see that Christ was definitely NOT rebuking the apostles for arming themselves with swords. As a matter of fact He recommended the purchase of a weapon for those who had none:

LUKE 22: CHRIST HAS NO OBJECTION TO THE APOSTLES ARMING THEMSELVES
35And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

So in verse 37, we see Jesus prophesying about His crucifixion, and when two malefactors were crucified with Him, one on the left hand and one on the right, that prophecy was fulfilled. He was indeed numbered with the transgressors.

And it is because Christ would not only be crucified, by rise from the dead, and ascend back to Heaven, that he encouraged His apostles to arm themselves for self-protection and self-defence. Not to attack anyone nor to resist when persecuted for the sake of the Gospels. In those days travel was hazardous (as we know from the parable of the Good Samaritan). So it was prudent for travelers (including the apostles) to be able to defend themselves against bandits and robbers.

It is clear that some here have become so defensive about their false ideas that they now choose to personally attack those who disagree. But someone has said that the pen is mightier than the sword, so all their arguments are demolished with plain Scriptures. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between justifying violence and justifying self-defense (which is perfectly legitimate).

I totally agree that It is clear that some here (including you!) have become so defensive about their false ideas that they now choose to personally attack those who disagree. All your arguments are demolished with plain Scriptures.

Here is what Jesus clearly said to Peter when He was being arrested and Peter resorted to violence. Matthew 26:52-53, " Then Jesus said to him [Peter], “Put your sword back in its place! For all who take hold of the sword will die by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot call on my Father, and that he would send me more than twelve legions of angels right now?"

So if someone has no faith they resort to violence. The message is clear to all except those who are willfully blind and have no faith.