The Insanity of the "right" to have guns!

[Lifelong_sinner]

I totally agree that It is clear that some here (including you!) have become so defensive about their false ideas that they now choose to personally attack those who disagree. All your arguments are demolished with plain Scriptures.

Here is what Jesus clearly said to Peter when He was being arrested and Peter resorted to violence. Matthew 26:52-53, " Then Jesus said to him [Peter], “Put your sword back in its place! For all who take hold of the sword will die by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot call on my Father, and that he would send me more than twelve legions of angels right now?"

So if someone has no faith they resort to violence. The message is clear to all except those who are willfully blind and have no faith.

are you saying self defense is sinful?

 

[Wrangler]

Matthew 26:52-53, " Then Jesus said to him [Peter], “Put your sword back in its place! For all who take hold of the sword will die by the sword

It’s ‘live by the sword,’ isn’t it? You are denying this is a rebuke of initiating violence.

 

[Stan B]

I am glad you liked Polycarp.

It is one of my favorite Christian films. If you liked that Christian movie, you may like my other recommendations here:

My Christian DVD Collection.

Blessings be unto you in the Lord.

Side Note:

I believe in New Testament Non-Violence. So one of the films that was in my Christian DVD collection was Hacksaw Ridge. However, once I learned of the many wrong beliefs of the SDA church, I threw it out of my collection. It’s unfortunate because it is a good movie to teach Non-Violence, but it’s not entirely biblical. Worth a watch at least once if you believe in NT Non-Violence.

“Sergeant York” is one of my OLD time favourites; a pacifist who ended who ended up being one of the most decorated soldiers of WWI, receiving the Congressional Medal of Honor.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yet the problem with this church age is , THEY think that if one suffers or loses things , THAT MEANS ITS BAD .
WHEN IN TRUTH , IF the loss of those things draws us only closer to GOD , TO only being able to trust iN HE ALONE
I TELL US ALL THIS IS A GREAT BEAUTY i would not trade in for all the riches of this world .
TOO many are under a wrong mindset . THEY think and believe one is cursed if they suffer loss
they think we KINGS KIDS and thus if GOD loved us HE WOULD BLESS US with much money and great health .
WHEN IN TRUTH , the GREATEST BLESSING OF ALL , IS TO SIMPLY KNOW HE WHO CAN SAVE US and HAS SAVED US only more .
Most folks have no idea what it means to be blesssed of GOD .
SO let me remind us of what JESUS taught and what HE called a blessing .
FIRST i remind us of what the false men say . BLESSED ARE YE OF GOD when your houses get bigger , your money grows
and life is easy .
YET JESUS SAID , BLESSED ARE YOU , WHEN MEN HATE YOU , WHEN YE ARE PERSECUTED .
PAUL said he counted the LOSS of all things as only gain for JESUS
and counted them all as but dung to win Christ .
I also see the same folks are quick to pray against their enemies , to pick up arms , to have hope in whatever man
or govt can give them an easier life . YET I SAY i could live as a king under any condition . I COULD SING in prison .
I can sing no matter what i lose for CHRIST . cause MY HOME aint HERE , MY KINGDOM AINT OF THIS WORLD
And thus my HOPE aint in it or its men and politics . I EXPECT TRIBULATION . AND I KNOW MY GOD WILL BE WITH ME
THROUGH IT ALL . I GOT ONE HOME , ONE KINGDOM , ONE TREASURE , AND IT AINT HERE , ITS ABOVE my friend .
SO no matter what comes against me , I KNOW MY GOD SHALL BE WITH ME . NO matter what i will suffer
I KNOW it will not only work to my GOOD but that i too will be able to help others through as well .
MY HOPE IS NOT OF THIS WORLD . ITS JESUS CHRIST . LEt this world do to me as it will . SO LONG as I HAVE CHRIST
THAT ALONE IS ALL THAT MATTTERS TO ME . PEROID . And my prayer and hope for even those who hate me most
IS they will too come to CHRIST . MY FRIEND I HAVE BEEN SET FREE . JESUS SETS US FREE .
TO SUFFER FOR HIM IS gain , TO DIE FOR HIM IS GAIN . THERE is nothing for me in this world .
FOR ME the only treasure , hope , riches , life and life abundant , IS JESUS CHRIST . THEY can keep the rest
I have MY REST , HIS NAME IS JESUS . HOW I PRAY FOLKS WILL LEARN THIS FAST .

Well said. I agree, brother.

 

[Mantis]

Oh, but you understand freedom (unlike most people). Please enlighten us!

Meh, nice try

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It’s ‘live by the sword,’ isn’t it? You are denying this is a rebuke of initiating violence.

A bunch of guys came in armed to take Jesus. We know the story because we read about it, but Peter did not know what was about to happen. Peter seen a threat of armed men coming towards his Lord. Peter seen this as a threat to his Lord Jesus because Jesus told him that He could have asked the Father for twelve legion of angels (Note: That’s somewhere between 48,000 to 72,000 angels) so as to protect Himself (if needed). Peter even wanted to prevent Jesus from going to the cross, and our Lord Jesus rebuked him. So Peter did not want his Lord to get hurt or to die. So Peter was using “Violent Self Defense” for his Lord being in danger, and Jesus rebuked Peter involving the sword (a weapon). So the lesson here in this story is Non-Violence involving a sword and or other weapons. So if the original instruction of Luke 22:36 given to the disciples that said, “he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one” applies to us believers today, then this obtaining a sword or weapon would not be used for violent reasons against other humans but it could be used for other purposes (like for hunting, cutting wood, cutting meat, and or protecting yourself from dangerous animals in the wilderness or nature).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

“Sergeant York” is one of my OLD time favourites; a pacifist who ended who ended up being one of the most decorated soldiers of WWI, receiving the Congressional Medal of Honor.

I grew up in the 1980’s. So I caught some black and white rerun shows on TV. I kind of remembering watching one of the scenes from this movie vaguely. I think I seen the scene where he was in a trench at one point. I will have to watch it sometime. Thank you.

May God bless you.

 

[Wrangler]

So if the original instruction of Luke 22:36 given to the disciples that said, “he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one” applies to us believers today, then this would be obtaining a sword or weapon used for Non-Violent reasons (like for hunting, cutting wood, cutting meat, and or protecting yourself from dangerous animals in the wilderness or nature).

Bless your heart for exposing your reading comprehension to suppose Jesus command to buy a sword was so the Apostles and we could non-violently hunt.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

are you saying self defense is sinful?

Self defense using a lethal weapon against dangerous animals is not sinful.
Self defense using a lethal weapon (in general) within the Old Testament times was not sinful.
But when Jesus came and told us the following words, “all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword,” (Matthew 26:52), this was in context to attacking man or humans because Peter chopped off Malchus’ ear. Galatians 3:13 mentions how Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law. Meaning, death is the curse of the law (if one broke it). So if you take up the sword (to fight against man), you will perish by the sword. You will fall under the curse of death against the Lord’s will or instructions. So yes. It’s a sin to take up the sword in the same manner Peter did in trying to use a weapon in Violent Self Defense. Read the scene in Matthew 26:47-56.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Bless your heart for exposing your reading comprehension to suppose Jesus command to buy a sword was so the Apostles and we could non-violently hunt.

Your welcome.

Oh, and my grammar could have been a little better on this sentence. Sorry, my morning coffee has not kicked in yet. I re-edited my post to clarify better what I meant to say (So as not to cause confusion with others).

I meant to say (Which my post now says):

So if the original instruction of Luke 22:36 given to the disciples that said, “he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one” applies to us believers today, then this obtaining a sword or weapon would not be used for violent reasons against other humans but it could be used for other purposes (like for hunting, cutting wood, cutting meat, and or protecting yourself from dangerous animals in the wilderness or nature).

Blessings be unto you in the Lord this fine day.

 

[Wrangler]

are you saying self defense is sinful?

I noticed he did not answer the question.

 

[Wrangler]

So if the original instruction of Luke 22:36 given to the disciples that said, “he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one” applies to us believers today, then this obtaining a sword or weapon would not be used for violent reasons against other humans

What instruction would be for violent reasons against other humans?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Bless your heart for exposing your reading comprehension to suppose Jesus command to buy a sword was so the Apostles and we could non-violently hunt.

I always believed that Christians could hunt. For I know meat does not fall down from out of the sky, and Paul makes it clear we can eat anything as long as it is sanctified by the Word of God and prayer. Anyways, after examining Luke 22:36 more closely (in this discussion), I see this the command given to the disciples in Luke 22:36 (if applicable to us today) as taking up a sword (or weapon) as a means to hunt or protect yourself against the animal kingdom and not as a means to use as self defense violently against humans.

For Jesus says, “all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword,” (Matthew 26:52).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What instruction would be for violent reasons against other humans?

Believers are not to employ: Violent (Damaging), or Lethal Self defense, going to war, etcetera. Remember, I believe Jesus and His followers taught Non-Violence involving humans. Violence is with the intent to harm, damage and kill other humans. Non-Violence does not mean one sits by and does nothing if one’s family is attacked. It means one can use other methods of Non-Violent (non-harmful) force or tactics against one’s attackers.

The idea is to preserve all human life and not to harm or kill it, and yet also try and outsmart one’s enemy and protect your life (and the life of your family), as well. But we must TRUST God is also protecting us, too. Psalms 91:10-12 comes to mind. In other words, if we believe Psalms 91:10-12 and we focus and meditate on this passage, and we pray with God over it, I believe God can protect us whereby we would never have to worry about being in a situation whereby one would have to protect themselves.

 

[Wrangler]

Repeat again ...

For Jesus says, “all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword,” (Matthew 26:52).

It’s ‘live by the sword,’ isn’t it? You are denying this is a rebuke of initiating violence.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have heard of Christian testimonies whereby they were confronted with men with guns, and some praised God and Jesus and they were gone. A similar thing happened with some other Christians. They decided to close their eyes and pray to the Lord Jesus Christ and ask for protection and when they stopped praying, they were gone. Others have rebuked them in the name of Jesus Christ. So it takes faith to be able to stand. God can protect you, but you need faith. If one’s faith is not strong enough, its not going to work.

 

[Wrangler]

Believers are not to employ

So, you are stating verses clearly intended to arm yourself for self defense are not that purpose AND THEN deny that any statement could be taken to mean that.

Good bye.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Repeat again ...

Remember, Peter did not have the luxury of reading the gospels like we do and was able to know what was going on. Peter thought Jesus’ life was physically threatened or at risk. So this is a situation of self defense. Peter wanted to protect his Lord (family). Much like Bob might do if he seen some guys with some guns show up at his house, and he wanted to protect his family. Peter said he did not need Peter’s protection because He could have basically asked the Father for 48,000 to 72,000 angels to protect him. So Peter wanted to protect the life of Jesus. Peter was employing what you guys call self defense involving a weapon. Bad guys show up, and you can use your weapon. This is what Peter did. Peter did not initiate violence in a situation that was not threatening. Peter did not pull out his sword to attack amongst a crowd of defenseless women. That would be initiating violence in a non-violent situation. The soldiers were there to take Jesus, but Peter did not even know what was going on. Peter seen men with weapons and he thought Jesus was in trouble and needed protection. Peter was acting like a bouncer or body guard for Jesus. Peter seen a threat and he was employing like what you would call…. Self defense. For if some men came to Rick’s house with guns before his family (and these men with guns did not intend to shoot him), Rick could take that as a threat and shoot them (just as Peter took up his sword and attacked) when the men were simply there to find Jesus and capture him. Peter did not know that they were not going to be Non-Violent. He had no clue. He thought his Lord was in trouble and his life was at risk. So this is a clear situation of Self Defense of Violence being refuted by our Lord Jesus Christ. That’s what the story is plainly teaching. To deny this means you have fallen in love with your guns and or you trust your gun more than you do God to protect you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It’s ‘live by the sword,’ isn’t it? You are denying this is a rebuke of initiating violence.

Matthew 26:52 says it differently.
See the KJB (King James Bible) or the NASB.
It basically says all who take up the sword shall perish with the sword.
My previous quote of the words in red were a direct quote from Scripture.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

John the Baptist said, “Do violence to no man” (Luke 3:14).
So this is not a new teaching even by Jesus.
John the Baptist also was teaching the same thing.