The Issue of Calvinism.

[justbyfaith]

There is still the issue of the origins of evil in the Universe.

From my perspective, free will is the only logical answer that glorifies the Lord.

All other answers make the Lord responsible for evil; and even the originator of it.

Calvinism seems to me to take away from the basic doctrine that satan fell from heaven because of pride.

If this was not the devil's choice (to operate in pride) then he has a case against God; especially if God created him to make that choice or else pulled on a puppet string attached to him so that he would fall because of pride.

 

[CoreIssue]

Here are the verses in context:

The Lord Jesus said a person does not choose for Jesus, and here are His words:

"You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16)

With that, Jesus indicated:
- a person does not choose Jesus at any level whatsoever
- the Lord Jesus does the choosing
- He did NOT address about a person choosing among various error doctrines

Joshua tells the Israelites to choose between two error doctrines/false gods (Joshua 24:15).

Moses commands the Israelites to "choose life" after he said "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today" (that is "witness against" not "witness for"), yet Moses did not say to choose God (Deuteronomy 30:19, here is the context Deuteronomy 30:15-20). The Israelites are presented information about blessing versus a curse. Now, expanding to the history we can see the results of curse being imposed on the Israelites, and here are a few: (1) God uses the Assyrians to punish Israel, (2) God uses Nebuchadnezzar to punish Judah, and (3) the Romans ravage Jerusalem (and the Jewish Temple is not there to this day). Amplifying, Moses did NOT command the Israelites to choose the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Now, back to the words of Jesus the Lord and God (John 20:28):

"You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16)

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." (John 12:48)

Please see "The Lord Jesus Says That Belief/Faith and Choosing Are All God Post".

John 12:48 alone rejects Calvinism. That is freewill choice.

 

[CoreIssue]

As for God create sin and evil. No.

But for love and acceptance of God to exist, the ability to hate and reject must also exist. You cannot have one without the other.

Remember, God hates and rejects, so they are not evil in and of themselves. Like guns, use they are put to are good or evil.

 

[CoreIssue]

It sure sounds to me like you are trying desperately to invalidate scripture.

The observations I presented about Romans 10:9-13 are truthful, logical, legal, valid, accurate, and legitimate; on the other hand, you violate truth by adding words to Romans 10:9-13 or subtracting words from Romans 10:9-13 scripture (Revelation 22:18-19), and here is the link to "The Accurate Presentation of Romans 10:9-13 Post".

Behold, the Lord Jesus said:

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)

"apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)

"You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16)

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day."

It is rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ to not give Him His due glory! Saving faith is for His glory.

Please see "The Lord Jesus Says That Belief/Faith and Choosing Are All God Post".

Unlike you I look at all the verses and do so in context by word meaning. I harmonize all scriptures. Not your shopping cart theology approach.

 

[CoreIssue]

You appear to be arguing in circles. You are not presenting scripture, rather you are presenting your point of view. In the absence of supporting scripture, you presented your interpretation that man either has a free will or that man makes a choice to salvation.

Romans 9:13 states "believe in your heart" (see the "The Accurate Presentation of Romans 10:9-13 Post"). Praise the Lord Jesus Christ for the gift of the new heart give to us believers (John 3:3, John 3:5, Ezekiel 36:26), so that we believers love the Lord our God with all our heart, and with all our soul, and with all our mind as well as love our neighbors as ourself. (Matthew 22:36-40). This is true, and the Lord Jesus said:

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)

The work of God is that a person believes in Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent. End of deal. The Lord Jesus left no squiggle room, period.

A person who says or writes that Jesus did not fully mean what Jesus said thus that person rejects the words of Jesus, and here is what the Lord Jesus has to say about His words:

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." (John 12:48)

Please see "The Lord Jesus Says That Belief/Faith and Choosing Are All God Post".

You don't realize you keep posting verses talking about freewill but read through the filter of no free will.

What is your point of being on this forum trying to convince others of your belief when by your belief it does not matter what they believe?

 

[Jun2u]

If He didn't do so, then He is responsible for all of the evil that we see in the world.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7

 

[CoreIssue]

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7

It is used in the Context of opposite of peace peace. Not what you're implying.

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 01254 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
arb a primitive root
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Bara' TWOT - 278
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
baw-raw' Verb
Definition

1. to create, shape, form
   1. (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)
      1. of heaven and earth
      2. of individual man
      3. of new conditions and circumstances
      4. of transformations
   2. (Niphal) to be created
      1. of heaven and earth
      2. of birth
      3. of something new
      4. of miracles
   3. (Piel)
      1. to cut down
      2. to cut out
2. to be fat
   1. (Hiphil) to make yourselves fat

 

[Jun2u]

Jun2u said: ↑
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7

It is used in the context of the office of the peace. Not what you're implying.

Concordances are a help however, man’s work at best is still tainted by sin. I would rather believe God than man.

So what you are saying when a tsunami, earthquake, and hurricanes… etc., hits where hundreds or sometimes even thousands are killed it is NOT an evil thing?

To God Be The Glory

 

[CoreIssue]

Jun2u said: ↑
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7

Concordances are a help however, man’s work at best is still tainted by sin. I would rather believe God than man.

So what you are saying when a tsunami, earthquake, and hurricanes… etc., hits where hundreds or sometimes even thousands are killed it is NOT an evil thing?

To God Be The Glory

So how do you know the true meaning and usage of each work if you don't know the definition?

Or maybe you forget these verses were written millennia ago.

 

[Jun2u]

So how do you know the true meaning and usage of each work if you don't know the definition?

Or maybe you forget these verses were written millennia ago.

Why is it that people dance around or side-step and divert an issue? My question was simple.
Do you always answer a question with a question?

To God Be The Glory

 

[justbyfaith]

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7

Wow. Or, whoah. Or, Woe.

You just blamed God for all of the evil in the Universe, just so you could defend your doctrine.

 

[Enoch111]

Calvinism seems to me to take away from the basic doctrine that satan fell from heaven because of pride.

And clinging to Calvinisitic doctrines eventually becomes a matter of pride over truth. Rarely (if ever) will a Calvinist admit that his doctrines have no basis in Gospel truth, and that they are really just man-made doctrines. You can throw a boatload of Scripture their way, but it is of no consequence. That is a serious matter, and pride is at the root of resistance to the truth.

 

[CoreIssue]

Why is it that people dance around or side-step and divert an issue? My question was simple.
Do you always answer a question with a question?

To God Be The Glory

Let me try to answer this as follow-up.

Those things you listed are either natural or caused by God.

Nature is not evil as God create. God does not do evil.

So no, they are not evil.

The Bible makes it clear that in the last days God will withdraw a lot of protection from the earth. So nature will cause a lot more devastation and death.

 

[Jun2u]

Those things you listed are either natural or caused by God.
Nature is not evil as God create. God does not do evil.
So no, they are not evil.

Natural disasters are exactly what God meant however, in itself natural disasters are not evil. But when people die from it it then becomes evil because people die.

The Bible makes it clear that in the last days God will withdraw a lot of protection from the earth. So nature will cause a lot more devastation and death

I don’t know where these are stated in Scripture but what I read are more spiritual since Satan will assault the camp of the saints and many will die. I don’t think you know the Bible because you can’t “see” what is coming in the last days.

People tend to read about the things out there (the world) then read the Bible. The believers are told to watch and the only way to prepare for the coming disasters is to read the Bible for there is where we watch.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Kermos]

John 12:48 alone rejects Calvinism. That is freewill choice.

I am a Christian. I am not a Calvinist. I am a Christian because I follow Christ Jesus, my Lord, my Savior, and my God! I am a Christian because I abide the Word of God!

John 12:48 does not indicate freewill. Jesus did not say "by your willpower do this" nor "by your willpower don't do that".

You inject freewill where there is none in the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, even at the point where He condemns such activity.

Jesus said:

"You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16)

With that, Jesus indicated:
- a person does not choose Jesus at any level whatsoever
- the Lord Jesus does the choosing
- He did NOT address about a person choosing among various error doctrines

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." (John 12:48)

Please see "The Lord Jesus Says That Belief/Faith and Choosing Are All God Post".

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 10:13 says, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

With that, the Holy Spirit through Paul indicated:

--Anybody and everybody is a candidate to be saved.
--the condition for being saved is that we call upon the name of the Lord
--that if anyone calls upon the name of the Lord, it is absolutely promised that they shall be saved.

Jhn 16:12, I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Jhn 16:13, Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Jhn 16:14, He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 5:2 says, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

With that, the Holy Spirit by Paul indicates that:

--we have access into grace by Jesus Christ
--we have access into grace by faith
--we stand in grace because we have obtained this access into this grace wherein we stand, by faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Kermos]

Unlike you I look at all the verses and do so in context by word meaning. I harmonize all scriptures. Not your shopping cart theology approach.

You insult the words of Jesus that I have quoted again and again. You try to add freewill and/or choice into scripture, for example "CoreIssue's attempt to freewill into Romans 10:9-13 and/or John 3:16 Exposed Post", so that is you interpreting and changing scripture.

Now, back to the words of the Lord Jesus Christ:

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)

"apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)

"You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16)

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." (John 12:48)

Please see "The Lord Jesus Says That Belief/Faith and Choosing Are All God Post".

 

[CoreIssue]

You insult the words of Jesus that I have quoted again and again. You try to add freewill and/or choice into scripture, for example "CoreIssue's attempt to freewill into Romans 10:9-13 and/or John 3:16 Exposed Post", so that is you interpreting and changing scripture.

Now, back to the words of the Lord Jesus Christ:

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)

"apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)

"You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16)

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." (John 12:48)

Please see "The Lord Jesus Says That Belief/Faith and Choosing Are All God Post".

As I asked, since you believe in Calvinism why are you posting? Nothing you say and no debate will change anything per your thinking.

 

[Kermos]

It is used in the Context of opposite of peace peace. Not what you're implying.
...snip

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7)

The compound sentence recorded by the Prophet Isaiah, above, is clearly elucidated as the Word of God. The "and" is a conjunction used for continuation of the sentence. Thus, God has:
- I form the light.
- I create darkness.
- I make peace.
- I create evil.
- I the LORD do all these things.

On the other hand, you write "It is used in the Context of opposite of peace peace. Not what you're implying" to Jun2u. CoreIssue, you attempt to negate the robust words of God Almighty again. It appears that you imply that the fourth point is not what God meant; in addition, by implication of your assault on the fourth point you also assault the fifth point.

I love the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, and here they are:

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)

"apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)

"You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16)

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." (John 12:48)

Please see "The Lord Jesus Says That Belief/Faith and Choosing Are All God Post".