The Jesuits ... What is their role? Part 1 and 2

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RogerDC

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Even more dumb are the ones who actually accept that such a stupid concept was one of their beliefs, as opposed to one made up by their enemies to justify their extermination to a gullible and superstitious populace.
So, the Catholic Church lies about what the Cathars believed? Please present some credible historical evidence that supports your claim. All you seem to have to offer is rumour and speculation.
Hmmm, I wonder whom I should believe - peer-reviewed, professional historians or … you? Tough decision!

Protestants are notorious for their fear of Church history - it presents inconvenient truths that most of them choose to deny. You need to take a leaf out John Henry Newmans’ book - he was an prominent Anglican priest and theologian who converted to Catholicism after honestly studying Church history (as a Protestant, he believed the Pope was the Anti-Christ!). He is famous for saying, “To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.”
And to think we are so stupid to accept this stupidity as one of their core beliefs is even more ridiculous.
How naïve. You seriously underestimate the human capacity for believing nonsense. The Cathars were not as stupid and foolish as the millions of atheists who don't believe in God at all.
 

RogerDC

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What if it is proven to be the One False Church?

Every Catholic owes it to himself/herself to carefully search the Scriptures and see if Catholic beliefs and practices are supported by the Bible.
That's nonsense. You're confused - the CHURCH is the primary source of Christianity, not the Bible, so your starting point of faith is wrong - little wonder you've ended on the wrong side of truth.
 

RogerDC

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You really need to educate yourself instead of continuing to promote the myth that the Catholic Church gave us our Bibles.
Talk is cheap. Please provide historical proof that it was not the Catholic Church that decided on the canon of the Bible. Good luck with that.
 

RogerDC

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Can you see how ludicrous your statement is?...
No more ludicrous than the Catholic listening to the local priest and trusting that he is telling the truth because...oh, he's a priest. He went to seminary. And at seminary they are taught doctrine from the Bi... Teachings of other priests who got their teachings from the Bi... Tradition, which evolved from the teachings of other priests who got their teachings from the Bi.... The church fathers who got their teachings from other priests such as Origen and His disciples who got their teachings from the Bi... Greek philosophy...
… and the Church Fathers got their teachings from the first Christians, who got their teachings from the Bi.... APOSTLES.
 
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RogerDC

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sola-scriptura.png
Yep, according to Protestant doctrine, God is the author of confusion and disunity.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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That sounds correct. In the 1960’s, Catholic intellectualism was hijacked by Marxists (and sadly, it remains that way today - mainstream Catholicism is saturated with cultural Marxism, which often operates under the pretence of “social justice”). Considering how intellectually influential the Jesuits had always been, chances are the Red Rot started with them (probably well before the 1960’s). By "they changed their spots", the Jesuit leader you refer to was almost certainly talking about the mass infiltration of Marxism into the Jesuit order (which Our Lady of Fatima warned the Church about - ie, “the errors of Russia”). I suspect many Jesuits in that era even become closet-Communists.

I would like to learn more about what this Australian Jesuit leader had to say. Can you provide a link, please?
I do not know where to look, I would of written it down some were I would think, I will have a look for you.

I think the devil in in the detail as in such has always been at hand in all Churches working to undermine Jesus Christ, from what I see of it, is that they may mean well in their intentions but sadly they are worldly people who have not the Holy Spirit to lead them, so it's just only mans works. nothing more than that of Judaism like religion that is at hand serving mans works. so people like so get out of hand, for they lack the Holy Spirit to guide them.
So they are devoid of Jesus Christ and start religious waring between Christians, such a thing is the work of Satan.

Many that I have come across will say that Paul was the greatest of all of the disciples and in a way I could agree in a way that one could see it that way but in reality that's just comes from a worldly boast, or when they point to Peter they will look at such a position as from a worldly stance of a Leadership, but that's not coming from the Holy Spirit point of view as Peter is not that type of Leadership and non of them are as such.
I believe that Peter is the Leader because the Bible says so in fact and no one could be so stupid to say otherwise. just because their was a point that Paul was pointing out to Peter does not in any regard make Paul the Leader. their only position is to lead all to Christ Jesus end of story, for they are nothing outside of the Holy Spirit.
That's the problem with religions ? one is trying to be loyal to a religion, but it's truly that one must be truly Born again because ones religion does not cut it, all this fighting among Christians takes the eye off Christ Jesus. back bighting does not help at all pitting believer against believer.
2 camps have been claiming the other is of Satan for 100's of years with ranting and raving.
 

BreadOfLife

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Can you see how ludicrous your statement is?...
No more ludicrous than the Catholic listening to the local priest and trusting that he is telling the truth because...oh, he's a priest. He went to seminary. And at seminary they are taught doctrine from the Bi... Teachings of other priests who got their teachings from the Bi... Tradition, which evolved from the teachings of other priests who got their teachings from the Bi.... The church fathers who got their teachings from other priests such as Origen and His disciples who got their teachings from the Bi... Greek philosophy...
Another typically asinine understanding of Catholic teaching - and dishonest as well.

The Catholic Church holds to the very BIBLICAL teaching that God's word is revealed to us through Scripture AND Sacred Tradition.
It's NOT just Tradition or what a priest tells another priest.

I say "dishonest", because it's ALL right there in the Catechism for you to read - IF you want to know what we REALLY teach.
I say, "asinine" because you should know better . . .
 

Brakelite

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Another typically asinine understanding of Catholic teaching - and dishonest as well.

The Catholic Church holds to the very BIBLICAL teaching that God's word is revealed to us through Scripture AND Sacred Tradition.
It's NOT just Tradition or what a priest tells another priest.

I say "dishonest", because it's ALL right there in the Catechism for you to read - IF you want to know what we REALLY teach.
I say, "asinine" because you should know better . . .
Funny. I quoted a students Catechism'to marymog the other day with regards the Sunday/Sabbath issue and she didn't want to know. Admittedly, it wasn't the fancy catechism you find in detail on the main Vatican web site... But it's still a Catechism'which I would imagine teaches Catholic truth according to Vatican guidelines right? Is trying to paint it to her that that Catechism actually teaches Sunday so called sacredness is a tradition of Catholicism and not biblical. Perhaps you can help me understand. Are some catechisms untrustworthy as marymog seemed to suggest? Was the catechism I was quoting from lying when it said Sunday was a tradition of Catholicism and not a biblical tenet? I mean, this catechism was being used to teach new Catholics things that Catholics were supposed to accept in order to become good Catholics. Would such a source be unreliable?
 

BreadOfLife

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Funny. I quoted a students Catechism'to marymog the other day with regards the Sunday/Sabbath issue and she didn't want to know. Admittedly, it wasn't the fancy catechism you find in detail on the main Vatican web site... But it's still a Catechism'which I would imagine teaches Catholic truth according to Vatican guidelines right? Is trying to paint it to her that that Catechism actually teaches Sunday so called sacredness is a tradition of Catholicism and not biblical. Perhaps you can help me understand. Are some catechisms untrustworthy as marymog seemed to suggest? Was the catechism I was quoting from lying when it said Sunday was a tradition of Catholicism and not a biblical tenet? I mean, this catechism was being used to teach new Catholics things that Catholics were supposed to accept in order to become good Catholics. Would such a source be unreliable?
What part of the following BIBLICAL command you you have difficulty with??

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."

YOUR problem has less to do with Tradition and everything to do with rebellion against Christ.

QUESTION:
The Canon of Scripture is a TRADITION of the Catholic Church.
Why do YOU adhere to it as your "Sole" Authority??
 
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Brakelite

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What part of the following BIBLICAL command you you have difficulty with??

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."

YOUR problem has less to do with Tradition and everything to do with rebellion against Christ.

QUESTION:
The Canon of Scripture is a TRADITION of the Catholic Church.
Why do YOU adhere to it as your "Sole" Authority??
KJV Mark 7
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
 

Brakelite

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What part of the following BIBLICAL command you you have difficulty with??

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."
First, neither Paul nor any of his contemporaries have spoken to me orally. I only have your word that they said this and that, outside of scripture. I am not about to entrust my Eternal destiny to you.
Second, I have no issue with the letters, not any part of scripture. I do have issues with churches that allow their traditions to override and make of no effect the commandments of God as if the church has authority to change Gods laws. They make tradition of greater authority than the word of God. Isn't that how Eck defeated Luther in a debate? Claiming the tradition of Sunday keeping was a Catholic invention so revealing Luther's inconsistancy by keeping Sunday rather than the biblical Sabbath? And now you are attempting to do the same... Lifting tradition above scripture. I'm not buying it. And if course Sunday so called sacredness is not the only thing I have an issue with where tradition is contrast to scripture and common sense.
 
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Enoch111

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KJV Mark 7
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
The Catholics replaced the Pharisees with man-made traditions superseding the Word of God. So now they have a Leftist pope who believes Climate Change is more critical than unregenerate Muslims being given false hope.
 

Brakelite

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The Catholics replaced the Pharisees with man-made traditions superseding the Word of God. So now they have a Leftist pope who believes Climate Change is more critical than unregenerate Muslims being given false hope.
Think about a scenario whereby that climate change becomes such a big issue with people panicking and governments overreacting like it's been with covid. We've already seen a little of that but what if a disaster takes place that actually threatens people's lives and in the minds of many, human Extinction becomes a possibility. Not that hard to imagine right? What will governments implement to counter that? What would the pope recommend?
 

RogerDC

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The Catholics replaced the Pharisees with man-made traditions superseding the Word of God. So now they have a Leftist pope who believes Climate Change is more critical than unregenerate Muslims being given false hope.
You're confused - what the Catholic Church teaches as doctrine IS the Word of God. Instead of studying the Bible, you would be much better off studying the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
 

Brakelite

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You're confused - what the Catholic Church teaches as doctrine IS the Word of God. Instead of studying the Bible, you would be much better off studying the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Mmmmm. And this is the problem isn't it. The church claiming it speaks as God. I have no problem with a church claiming it is speaking on behalf of God... All we need to is compare those statements with scripture and if they contradict scripture, then they clearly are not from God at all. But claiming that doctrines pulled out of thin air are the word of God? Sorry, but that's Antichrist
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
 

BreadOfLife

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KJV Mark 7
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Thank you for exposing your ignorance of Scripture with that inane response.
Looks like it's time for another Bible lesson . . .

It's a common anti-Catholic blunder to thin k that Jesus was condemning all Tradition in Mark 7:9 and Matt. 23:9. He was pointing out to the pharisees for placing MORE importance on their man-made traditions than the Word of God. He condemned them for USURPING God's Word in favor of their customs.

The Bible is crystal clear that their is tradition (man-made) and there is Tradition (Sacred) - and Tradition is a GOOD thing because it conveys the Word of God authoritatively through His Church . . .

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."

2 Thess. 3:6
"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us"

1 Cor. 11:2
"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you".

PS - the Canon of the Bible is a Tradition of the Catholic Church - and YOU hold to it as your "SOLE" Authority.
WHY is that??