The Jesuits ... What is their role? Part 1 and 2

[BreadOfLife]

First, neither Paul nor any of his contemporaries have spoken to me orally. I only have your word that they said this and that, outside of scripture. I am not about to entrust my Eternal destiny to you.
Second, I have no issue with the letters, not any part of scripture. I do have issues with churches that allow their traditions to override and make of no effect the commandments of God as if the church has authority to change Gods laws. They make tradition of greater authority than the word of God. Isn't that how Eck defeated Luther in a debate? Claiming the tradition of Sunday keeping was a Catholic invention so revealing Luther's inconsistancy by keeping Sunday rather than the biblical Sabbath? And now you are attempting to do the same... Lifting tradition above scripture. I'm not buying it. And if course Sunday so called sacredness is not the only thing I have an issue with where tradition is contrast to scripture and common sense.

The SUCCESSORS of the Twelve (Acts 1:20) HAVE spoken - and you HAVE heard - yet you have rejected it in favor of the aberrant ravings of spiritually-rebellious 19th century woman, Ellen White.

Good luck with that . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Mmmmm. And this is the problem isn't it. The church claiming it speaks as God. I have no problem with a church claiming it is speaking on behalf of God... All we need to is compare those statements with scripture and if they contradict scripture, then they clearly are not from God at all. But claiming that doctrines pulled out of thin air are the word of God? Sorry, but that's Antichrist
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Ummmm like "Soul Sleep"?

OR, the idea that Hell is not eternal - even though the Bible says it IS . . .
(Isa. 33:11, 14, Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46, Mark 9:47–48, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9)?

How about FALSE prophecies regarding the Lord's Return??
I've never experienced a "Great Disappointment" with God . . .

 

[Brakelite]

@BreadOfLife your efforts at refuting my points are duly noted. But they are a fail. Why are they a fail? Because despite all your bombastic effusive vitriol and self important pretensions to scholarship, it didn't pass notice that you clearly deliberately avoided actually discussing the issue. That is... Tradition is more important and authorititive in Catholicism than is scripture. That's the point. And Sunday sacredness is the proof of that and your own church admits to it. Even boasts of it. And in the past has used it as a weapon against Protestants in debate. But not this time. You can't use it because it won't work. So your only avenue of escape is to avoid it altogether.

 

[BreadOfLife]

@BreadOfLife your efforts at refuting my points are duly noted. But they are a fail. Why are they a fail

Thank you for that impotent NON-response . . .

 

[Brakelite]

Thank you for that impotent NON-response . . .

Sorry, accidentally posted an incomplete response... Now edited.

 

[Illuminator]

Then PLEASE do . . .

That's a mistake because what they do is fashion weapons from the catechism and use it to attack the Church. It's a form of polemical witchcraft IMO. The same goes for the straw man fallacies against Tradition, so they are compelled to re-define it into something the Church never taught in the first place.

 

[Illuminator]

Topics include the Church's relationship with Muslims.
Scripture and Tradition
Abuse of Rev. 2:4-5 exposed
"it is written" distortions
1 Cor. 4:6
sola scriptura arguments exposed
material sufficiency vs formal sufficiency
authority
and others

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's a mistake because what they do is fashion weapons from the catechism and use it to attack the Church. It's a form of polemical witchcraft IMO. The same goes for the straw man fallacies against Tradition, so they are compelled to re-define it into something the Church never taught in the first place.

I know - but I LOVE to watch them scramble and piece together half-witted arguments that are Scripturally-bankrupt.

 

[BreadOfLife]

@BreadOfLife your efforts at refuting my points are duly noted. But they are a fail. Why are they a fail? Because despite all your bombastic effusive vitriol and self important pretensions to scholarship, it didn't pass notice that you clearly deliberately avoided actually discussing the issue. That is... Tradition is more important and authorititive in Catholicism than is scripture. That's the point. And Sunday sacredness is the proof of that and your own church admits to it. Even boasts of it. And in the past has used it as a weapon against Protestants in debate. But not this time. You can't use it because it won't work. So your only avenue of escape is to avoid it altogether.

Actually - that's a complete misrepresentation and a failure to understand BOTH Scripture and the Catechism.

The Church has ALWAYS taught - as does Scripture - that Scripture and Sacred Tradition are on par with each other as manifestations of God's Word (2 Thess. 2:15, 2 Thess. 3:6, 2 Tim. 2:2, 1 Cor. 11:2, 2 Tim. 1:12-14).

As I stated TWICE already - and which YOU keep running from - the Canon of the Bible itself is a Tradition of the Catholic Church.
Why do YOU hold it as your "SOLE" Authority if it is clearly a Tradition and not a list from the Bible itself?

 

[Brakelite]

The SUCCESSORS of the Twelve (Acts 1:20) HAVE spoken - and you HAVE heard

There, even you admit it. The successors (another tradition of the church) of the twelve have spoken. In this you are correct. They spoke in direct contradiction of scripture. Even in denial of God's commandments. Just like Jesus said if the Pharisees, your church did the same, and then claim to be dialing with the authority of God. As if God Himself changes His own laws. Your church in those days in bowing and submitting before Constantine's sun god and taking his day as their own made a mockery of God and it was from that moment on the apostasy spoken of by Paul began in earnest.
In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.

Now I am not claiming that canon29 of the council of Laodicea was the first time that Sunday was observed, but what it does reveal is that the Sabbath was still being observed by conscientious Christians well into the 4th century and it needed pretentious church clerics with the aid of the emperor to force them to abandon it. So much for religious freedom.

 

[BreadOfLife]

There, even you admit it. The successors (another tradition of the church) of the twelve have spoken. In this you are correct. They spoke in direct contradiction of scripture. Even in denial of God's commandments. Just like Jesus said if the Pharisees, your church did the same, and then claim to be dialing with the authority of God. As if God Himself changes His own laws. Your church in those days in bowing and submitting before Constantine's sun god and taking his day as their own made a mockery of God and it was from that moment on the apostasy spoken of by Paul began in earnest.
In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.

Now I am not claiming that canon29 of the council of Laodicea was the first time that Sunday was observed, but what it does reveal is that the Sabbath was still being observed by conscientious Christians well into the 4th century and it needed pretentious church clerics with the aid of the emperor to force them to abandon it. So much for religious freedom.

WRONG from the get go.

What you are trying to force on Scripture here is completely ANTI- Scriptural. Just as the Ministerial priesthood of the Levite Tribe was passed on from generation to generation - so is the Ministerial priesthood of Christ. This was in line with that supreme Authority that Christ gave to His Church in Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18 and John 20:21-23.
What you fail to remember as an anti-Catholic zealot is that NT fulfillments are ALWAYS more glorious and perfect than their OT Types - without exception.

Now - as to your usual Sabbatarian rant - Scripture shows us that the Church met on the FIRST day of the week, the Lord's Day (Acts 20:7 & 1 Cor. 16:1-2). As for the Early Church - the Jewish Christians DID continue to observe the Sabbath and other customs - but did NOT impose them on the Gentile Christians. We see the Church AND the Holy Spirit deciding on these matters at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 and in Paul's letter to the Colossians (Col. 2:16-17).

Acts 15:24-29
Since we have heard that some of our number who went out without any mandate from US have upset you with their teachings and disturbed your peace of mind, WE have with ONE accord decided to choose representatives and to send them to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have dedicated their lives to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. So we are sending Judas and Silas who will also convey this same message by word of mouth: IT IS THE DECISION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND US not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.’”

Col. 2:16-17
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or SABBATH. These are SHADOWS of things to come; the REALITY belongs to Christ.

You LOSE because you have rebelled against Christ by rebelling against His Church.

 

[Enoch111]

Then PLEASE do . . .

Let's take just one GLARING EXAMPLE from the CCC.

THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
IV. The Canon of Scripture
120 It was by the apostolic Tradition that the Church discerned which writings are to be included in the list of the sacred books.90
This complete list is called the canon of Scripture. It includes 46 books for the Old Testament (45 if we count Jeremiah and Lamentations as one) and 27 for the New.91
The Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings, 1 and 2 Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah, Tobit, Judith, Esther, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Song of Songs, the Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Baruch, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zachariah and Malachi. [Note: the seven books in red are apocryphal books NOT FOUND in the Hebrew Tanakh]

NOW THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER ON THE AUTHORITY OF CHRIST
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He [Christ] expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself... And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while He talked with us by the way, and while He opened to us the Scriptures?... And He [Christ] said unto them [the apostles], These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the [1] Law of Moses, and in [2] the Prophets, and in [3] the Psalms, concerning me. Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:27,32,44,45)

The Lord Jesus Christ -- who said that He had supreme authority in Heaven and earth -- authoritatively called the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh) "the Scriptures", "all the Scriptures", "Moses and the Prophets", and "the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms". That body of Scriptures consists of ONLY 24 BOOKS (39 in our OT). Not 46 books as alleged by the Catholic Church in the CCC.

NOW THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER AS FOUND IN THE HEBREW
1. The Tanakh = the Protestant Old Testament (39 books because several were split)

2. The Tanakh has three major divisions as stated by Christ:
TORAH = the Law of Moses (5 books)
NEVIIM = the Prophets = (8 books)
KETUVIM = the Psalms (or Writings) = 11 books
TOTAL = 24 BOOKS

TORAH = Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
NEVIIM = Joshua, Judges, Samuel (1 book), Kings (1 book), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, The Twelve (all 12 minor prophets in 1 book).
KETUVIM = Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Esther, Daniel, Ezra-Nehemiah (1 book), Chronicles (1 book).

As you can see, those seven apocryphal books are NOT INCLUDED. Since Scripture is foundational, we need not even go into all the other errors of the Catholic Church.

 

[Illuminator]

Let's take just one GLARING EXAMPLE from the CCC.

THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
IV. The Canon of Scripture
120 It was by the apostolic Tradition that the Church discerned which writings are to be included in the list of the sacred books.90
This complete list is called the canon of Scripture. It includes 46 books for the Old Testament (45 if we count Jeremiah and Lamentations as one) and 27 for the New.91
The Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings, 1 and 2 Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah, Tobit, Judith, Esther, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Song of Songs, the Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Baruch, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zachariah and Malachi. [Note: the seven books in red are apocryphal books NOT FOUND in the Hebrew Tanakh]

NOW THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER ON THE AUTHORITY OF CHRIST
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He [Christ] expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself... And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while He talked with us by the way, and while He opened to us the Scriptures?... And He [Christ] said unto them [the apostles], These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the [1] Law of Moses, and in [2] the Prophets, and in [3] the Psalms, concerning me. Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:27,32,44,45)

The Lord Jesus Christ -- who said that He had supreme authority in Heaven and earth -- authoritatively called the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh) "the Scriptures", "all the Scriptures", "Moses and the Prophets", and "the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms". That body of Scriptures consists of ONLY 24 BOOKS (39 in our OT). Not 46 books as alleged by the Catholic Church in the CCC.

NOW THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER AS FOUND IN THE HEBREW
1. The Tanakh = the Protestant Old Testament (39 books because several were split)

2. The Tanakh has three major divisions as stated by Christ:
TORAH = the Law of Moses (5 books)
NEVIIM = the Prophets = (8 books)
KETUVIM = the Psalms (or Writings) = 11 books
TOTAL = 24 BOOKS

TORAH = Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
NEVIIM = Joshua, Judges, Samuel (1 book), Kings (1 book), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, The Twelve (all 12 minor prophets in 1 book).
KETUVIM = Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Esther, Daniel, Ezra-Nehemiah (1 book), Chronicles (1 book).

As you can see, those seven apocryphal books are NOT INCLUDED. Since Scripture is foundational, we need not even go into all the other errors of the Catholic Church.

The Protestants attempt to defend their rejection of the deuterocanonicals on the ground that the early Jews rejected them. However, the Jewish councils that rejected them (e.g., School of Javneh (also called “Jamnia” in 90 – 100 A.D.) were the same councils that rejected the entire New Testatment canon. Thus, Protestants who reject the Catholic Bible are following a Jewish council that rejected Christ and the Revelation of the New Testament. (Enoch's "authority")

Matt. 2:16 – Herod’s decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 – slaying the holy innocents.

Matt. 6:19-20 – Jesus’ statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 – lay up your treasure.

Matt.. 7:12 – Jesus’ golden rule “do unto others” is the converse of Tobit 4:15 – what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 – Jesus’ statement “you will know them by their fruits” follows Sirach 27:6 – the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 – the people were “like sheep without a shepherd” is same as Judith 11:19 – sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 – Jesus’ description “Lord of heaven and earth” is the same as Tobit 7:18 – Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 – Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 – Jesus’ reference to the “power of death” and “gates of Hades” references Wisdom 16:13.

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 – Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

Matt. 24:15 – the “desolating sacrilege” Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.

Matt. 24:16 – let those “flee to the mountains” is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.

Matt. 27:43 – if He is God’s Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.

Mark 4:5,16-17 – Jesus’ description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.

Mark 9:48 – description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.

Luke 1:42 – Elizabeth’s declaration of Mary’s blessedness above all women follows Uzziah’s declaration in Judith 13:18.

Luke 1:52 – Mary’s magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.

Luke 2:29 – Simeon’s declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.

Luke 13:29 – the Lord’s description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37.

Luke 21:24 – Jesus’ usage of “fall by the edge of the sword” follows Sirach 28:18.

Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 – Luke’s description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.

John 1:3 – all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.

John 3:13 – who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.

John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 – Jesus’, Luke’s and Paul’s usage of “signs and wonders” follows Wisdom 8:8.

Luke 1:52 – Mary’s magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.

Luke 2:29 – Simeon’s declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.

Luke 13:29 – the Lord’s description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37.

Luke 21:24 – Jesus’ usage of “fall by the edge of the sword” follows Sirach 28:18.

Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 – Luke’s description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.

John 1:3 – all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.

John 3:13 – who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.

John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 – Jesus’, Luke’s and Paul’s usage of “signs and wonders” follows Wisdom 8:8.

John 5:18 – Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.

John 6:35-59 – Jesus’ Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.

John 10:22 – the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59.

John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.

John 15:6 – branches that don’t bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5 where branches are broken off.
more here
Furthermore, there is no historical evidence of a 66 book Bible before the 14th century.

 

[Enoch111]

...on the ground that the early Jews rejected them

No. On the grounds that CHRIST rejected them. But you ignored everything I posted and failed to digest it also.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Let's take just one GLARING EXAMPLE from the CCC.

THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
IV. The Canon of Scripture
120 It was by the apostolic Tradition that the Church discerned which writings are to be included in the list of the sacred books.90
This complete list is called the canon of Scripture. It includes 46 books for the Old Testament (45 if we count Jeremiah and Lamentations as one) and 27 for the New.91
The Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings, 1 and 2 Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah, Tobit, Judith, Esther, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Song of Songs, the Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Baruch, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zachariah and Malachi. [Note: the seven books in red are apocryphal books NOT FOUND in the Hebrew Tanakh]

NOW THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER ON THE AUTHORITY OF CHRIST
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He [Christ] expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself... And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while He talked with us by the way, and while He opened to us the Scriptures?... And He [Christ] said unto them [the apostles], These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the [1] Law of Moses, and in [2] the Prophets, and in [3] the Psalms, concerning me. Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:27,32,44,45)

The Lord Jesus Christ -- who said that He had supreme authority in Heaven and earth -- authoritatively called the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh) "the Scriptures", "all the Scriptures", "Moses and the Prophets", and "the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms". That body of Scriptures consists of ONLY 24 BOOKS (39 in our OT). Not 46 books as alleged by the Catholic Church in the CCC.

NOW THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER AS FOUND IN THE HEBREW
1. The Tanakh = the Protestant Old Testament (39 books because several were split)

2. The Tanakh has three major divisions as stated by Christ:
TORAH = the Law of Moses (5 books)
NEVIIM = the Prophets = (8 books)
KETUVIM = the Psalms (or Writings) = 11 books
TOTAL = 24 BOOKS

TORAH = Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
NEVIIM = Joshua, Judges, Samuel (1 book), Kings (1 book), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, The Twelve (all 12 minor prophets in 1 book).
KETUVIM = Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Esther, Daniel, Ezra-Nehemiah (1 book), Chronicles (1 book).

As you can see, those seven apocryphal books are NOT INCLUDED. Since Scripture is foundational, we need not even go into all the other errors of the Catholic Church.

As my Jewish friends would say - "Oy vey!!"
Your ignorance of Scripture is ALMOST as profound and disturbing as your ignorance of history.
Sigh - time for another lesson . . .

As I have already explained to you and many of your fellow historically-bankrupt friends here on this forum - the OPEN Jewish Canon of Scripture in the FIRST century is different than the CLOSED Jewish Canon of Scripture after the SECOND century.

Not long after the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ, a group of Rabbis asked permission from the Roman authorities to hold a Rabbinical school at Jabneh (or Jamnia). One of the things discussed was use of the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) by early Christians. The name, Septuagint", comes from the number of scholars (70) who translated the Hebrew texts into Greek.

At this gathering, they decided to eject 7 Books (and portions of Esther and Daniel) that they felt were uninspired. They provided a new Greek translation because the early Christians were converting the Jews using the Septuagint, which was compiled about 200 years before the birth of Christ. According to historical sources, the rabbinical gathering at Jabneh was not even an "official" council with binding authority to make such a decision. It can be clearly shown that Jesus and the Apostles studied and quoted from these 7 Books. In the New Testament, we see some 200 references to them.

The main advocate for removing the 7 Deuterocanonical Books was Rabbi Akiva, who was also known for proclaiming that a man named Simon Bar Kohkba was the “real” Messiah during the 2nd Jewish Revolt (circa 132 AD). So, Your Protestant Father, Luther chose to go with a POST-Christ, POST-Temple Canon of Scripture that was declared by a FALSE Prophet who proclaimed a FALSE “Christ”.

This is who YOU have chosen to follow instead of Christ’s Church, on whom He bestowed Supreme Earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Good luck explaining that to God when you are judged . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No. On the grounds that CHRIST rejected them. But you ignored everything I posted and failed to digest it also.

Based o the information I gave you in post #395 about the CLOSING of the Jewish Canon in the SECOND century and the deletion of the 7 Deuterocanonical Books at that time from the previously OPEN Canon - please show me from Scripture where Jesus "rejected" these 7 Books.

While you're at it - please explain why there are almost 200 references to those books in the New Testament - such as:
Eph. 6:13-17 - The discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20.
Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.

PLEASE explain this . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Based o the information I gave you in post #395 about the CLOSING of the Jewish Canon in the SECOND century and the deletion of the 7 Deuterocanonical Books at that time from the previously OPEN Canon - please show me from Scripture where Jesus "rejected" these 7 Books.

While you're at it - please explain why there are almost 200 references to those books in the New Testament - such as:
Eph. 6:13-17 - The discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20.
Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.

PLEASE explain this . . .

CRICKETS . . .

 

[quietthinker]

WRONG from the get go.

What you are trying to force on Scripture here is completely ANTI- Scriptural. Just as the Ministerial priesthood of the Levite Tribe was passed on from generation to generation - so is the Ministerial priesthood of Christ. This was in line with that supreme Authority that Christ gave to His Church in Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18 and John 20:21-23.
What you fail to remember as an anti-Catholic zealot is that NT fulfillments are ALWAYS more glorious and perfect than their OT Types - without exception.

Now - as to your usual Sabbatarian rant - Scripture shows us that the Church met on the FIRST day of the week, the Lord's Day (Acts 20:7 & 1 Cor. 16:1-2). As for the Early Church - the Jewish Christians DID continue to observe the Sabbath and other customs - but did NOT impose them on the Gentile Christians. We see the Church AND the Holy Spirit deciding on these matters at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 and in Paul's letter to the Colossians (Col. 2:16-17).

Acts 15:24-29
Since we have heard that some of our number who went out without any mandate from US have upset you with their teachings and disturbed your peace of mind, WE have with ONE accord decided to choose representatives and to send them to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have dedicated their lives to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. So we are sending Judas and Silas who will also convey this same message by word of mouth: IT IS THE DECISION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND US not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.’”

Col. 2:16-17
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or SABBATH. These are SHADOWS of things to come; the REALITY belongs to Christ.

You LOSE because you have rebelled against Christ by rebelling against His Church.

Ohhh BOL.....you dig your hole deeper with every retort but you do not see it anymore than those who condemned Jesus saw their own situation.

 

[quietthinker]

I know - but I LOVE to watch them scramble and piece together half-witted arguments that are Scripturally-bankrupt.

yes, this is what you get off on....this is in your own words where your love is anchored.

 

[RogerDC]

I have. And I could show you contradiction after contradiction.

There are no contradictions in Catholic doctrine, because the word of God doesn't contain contradictions. If you see contradictions in the CCC, all that means is, you don't understand the truth.