The Judgement of Nations: Millennium Proof

[ewq1938]

Revelation 20:11-15 is perfectly clear: All people are judged and those worthy will receive Eternal life, those unworthy go into the Lake of fire.

There isn't anyone shown there receiving Eternal life.

Your scriptures that Promise immortality do not say when it will happen. You just assume it could be tomorrow, without any proof.

I do not assume that and never have. It isn't even possible so this falls into you confusing me for someone else, or this is just a basic strawman fallacy.

 

[rwb]

Revelation 20:11-15 is perfectly clear: All people are judged and those worthy will receive Eternal life, those unworthy go into the Lake of fire.
Your scriptures that Promise immortality do not say when it will happen. You just assume it could be tomorrow, without any proof.

Rev 20:11-15 does not say ALL people are judged! It says the DEAD are judged according to what is found written in the books and the book of life. The living is those who have part in the first resurrection through Christ and are not counted with the DEAD. While it is true that we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ, (Ro 14:10; 2 Cor 5:10) those, called sheep whom in life have put on Christ's resurrection life will stand at Christ's right hand, (Mt 25:33) not to be judged according to what is written, but to hear Him say, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". We will not be counted with the DEAD to whom He will say "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels". Believers shall not be judged with the dead because they shall already be clothed in immortal and incorruptible bodies resurrected to life when the last trumpet sounds and we are resurrected and changed. (1Cor 15:51-57)

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

John makes a distinction between those who have lived and reigned with Christ and those who shall reign with Christ in time, and the rest of the dead, or those who NEVER in time live and reign with Christ. Then John writes of the fate for ALL humanity. Our fate of resurrection to life or resurrection to damnation, that shall be in an hour that is coming is determined while we are alive in time or this age. (Jo 5:28-29) If we have part in Christ during this Gospel age of time (a thousand years), on judgment day we shall be called sheep at Christ's right hand clothed in immortal & incorruptible flesh ready to receive our eternal reward. But if we are those on His left, called goats, we must give account according to what is written in the books and the book of life. And because the names of the DEAD will not be written with the living, all who are on His left shall be cast into the lake of fire that is the second death.

 

[Keraz]

There isn't anyone shown there receiving Eternal life.

In Revelation 20:11-15, all people dead and alive are Judged, the unworthy get thrown into the Lake of fire.
As what happens next is Eternity, it is obvious that those found worthy, their names are in the book of Life; will receive immortality and go to live in the New Jerusalem. Revelation 21 to 22

Rev 20:11-15 does not say ALL people are judged! It says the DEAD are judged

But we are told by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, that those still alive at that time will be instantly transformed into immortality.
That Prophecy parallels Revelation 21:4, when Death will be no more. Only in Eternity.

Believers shall not be judged with the dead because they shall already be clothed in immortal and incorruptible bodies resurrected to life when the last trumpet sounds and we are resurrected and changed.

The only Judgment to happen before the GWT Judgment after the Millennium, is of the nations. Matthew 25:31-33
The Last Trumpet, can only be the one that brings everyone who has ever lived - dead and still living, before God.

I see that people make a lot of unsupported assumptions regarding when immortality is conferred. Jesus Promised Eternal life to all who believe in Him, but He never said when. We find that out from Rev 20:11-15.
It is good for evangelists to promote Eternal life, but it is bad for anyone to think it comes before the Bible says it will: - logically and sensibly, at the end of this physical world.

 

[ewq1938]

In Revelation 20:11-15, all people dead and alive are Judged, the unworthy get thrown into the Lake of fire.

Everyone there is called the dead, so no tuely alive people are there. Those alive were judged in the first resurrection. The second resurrection is for damnation.

As what happens next is Eternity, it is obvious that those found worthy, their names are in the book of Life; will receive immortality and go to live in the New Jerusalem. Revelation 21 to 22

Those were judged in the first part of chp 20.

 

[Keraz]

Everyone there is called the dead, so no tuely alive people are there. Those alive were judged in the first resurrection. The second resurrection is for damnation.

There will be millions of living peoples at the end of the Millennium. Shown by how many of them are seduced by Satan, when he is released for his short season. They muster to attack God's people, in Jerusalem.

Those were judged in the first part of chp 20.

Revelation 20:4a, simply mentions those to whom judgment is committed. Nothing about who is judged, or when.

ewq, your beliefs seem to come from teachings you have accepted, not from what the Bible actually says. To avoid being constantly and embarrassingly refuted. by plainly stated scripture, you need to check and confirm what you say is really true.

 

[ewq1938]

There will be millions of living peoples at the end of the Millennium. Shown by how many of them are seduced by Satan, when he is released for his short season. They muster to attack God's people, in Jerusalem.

After that is when I was addressing. Remember, you cited Revelation 20:11-15? We were not discussing previous verses.

Revelation 20:4a, simply mentions those to whom judgment is committed. Nothing about who is judged, or when.

When is known, and who is clearly those who died in faith for Christ. They are resurrected to immortality at that time.

ewq, your beliefs seem to come from teachings you have accepted, not from what the Bible actually says. To avoid being constantly and embarrassingly refuted. by plainly stated scripture, you need to check and confirm what you say is really true.

All of that applies to you. Take every word to heart and re-evaluate everything you believe in and teach.

 

[robert derrick]

You make crazy accusations.

Calling your personal preference for physically beheaded saints, a fetish, is my personal description of your theology, not an accusation against what you prophecy.

Revelation 12:14 says the faithful Christians will be kept safe for the 42 month period of Satanic control.

Faithful Christians are not 'kept safe' during tribulation, temptation, and persecution. We come out from among them and keep ourselves from doing any of their deeds.

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The wilderness is ministry from house to house, catacomb to catacomb, if necessary. We depart from the world-wide organization of churches of AC and his false prophet leadership.

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Those Christians that do not come out from among them, also won't be coming out from the world into the air, at the Lord's second coming.

Adam through Billy Graham?

 

[Keraz]

After that is when I was addressing. Remember, you cited Revelation 20:11-15? We were not discussing previous verses.

1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is also a Prophecy about the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.
Pauls prophecy there tell us that those still living then and whose names are found in the Book of Life, will be instantly transformed into immortality.

When is known, and who is clearly those who died in faith for Christ. They are resurrected to immortality at that time.

Revelation 20:4a makes no mention of immortality then.
Can you not realize that immortality is something that cannot happen in this mortal world. It comes with Eternity, in the Spiritual world.

Faithful Christians are not 'kept safe' during tribulation, temptation, and persecution. We come out from among them and keep ourselves from doing any of their deeds.

Revelation 12:6 & 14 refute you.

Calling your personal preference for physically beheaded saints, a fetish, is my personal description of your theology

This is stupidity and shows that you fail to understand prophesies like Revelation 20:4-6

 

[ewq1938]

1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is also a Prophecy about the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.
Pauls prophecy there tell us that those still living then and whose names are found in the Book of Life, will be instantly transformed into immortality.

No, it is at the last of 7 end times trumps, the last trump is the second coming.

Revelation 20:4a makes no mention of immortality then.

The second death having no power over them means they are immortal. They partake of the first resurrection, the one the above scriptures speak of.

Can you not realize that immortality is something that cannot happen in this mortal world. It comes with Eternity, in the Spiritual world.

That's funny because even in your timeline immortality comes BEFORE the eternity (NHNE).

 

[jeffweeder]

The second death having no power over them means they are immortal.

Do you think the second death has power over you right now, as we speak?
For the "faithful to the end" mortal believer, Jesus has already taken their judgment upon himself. Do you agree?

 

[ewq1938]

Do you think the second death has power over you right now, as we speak?

Sure. That doesn't end until one is judged and is resurrected to life.

For the "faithful to the end" mortal believer, Jesus has already taken their judgment upon himself. Do you agree?

No.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[Keraz]

No, it is at the last of 7 end times trumps, the last trump is the second coming.

How can the Seventh Trump be the Return of Jesus? There are the Seven Bowls yet to come, culminating with Armageddon. Revelation 16:16-18 It is just a Prophecy, an assertion of Jesus' rightful rule, soon to come.

The second death having no power over them means they are immortal. They partake of the first resurrection, the one the above scriptures speak of.

It means they have the assurance of immortality. Those raised martyrs can die again, but when they stand before God along with everyone who has ever lived, their names will be found in the Book of Life and immortality will be theirs.

That's funny because even in your timeline immortality comes BEFORE the eternity (NHNE).

Immortality and the Spiritual new heavens and earth come at the Great White Throne wrap up of Gods 7000 year, decreed time for mankind.

 

[ewq1938]

How can the Seventh Trump be the Return of Jesus?

It is when he leaves heaven and returns, first to the clouds, eventually to Armageddon and Mt Zion.

There are the Seven Bowls yet to come, culminating with Armageddon. Revelation 16:16-18 It is just a Prophecy, an assertion of Jesus' rightful rule, soon to come.

He is seen in the sky when the bowls begin to pour.

It means they have the assurance of immortality. Those raised martyrs can die again, but when they stand before God along with everyone who has ever lived, their names will be found in the Book of Life and immortality will be theirs.

No, when the martyrs are raised, they are immortal right then.

Immortality and the Spiritual new heavens and earth come at the Great White Throne

No, immortality comes at the second coming and the NHNE comes after the GWTJ is over, first seen by John in Rev 21. The GWTJ is in Rev 20.

 

[rwb]

No.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Yes, we must ALL (without exception) appear before the judgment seat of Christ. But only the DEAD shall be judged according to what is found written in the books and the book of life. Therefore at the judgment seat of Christ the faithful having done good in life will receive resurrection of life. The DEAD who have done evil in life will be resurrected to be judged according to their evil works for the resurrection of damnation.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Revelation 20:12 (KJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[Keraz]

It is when he leaves heaven and returns, first to the clouds, eventually to Armageddon and Mt Zion.

Your false assumption.
So you have Jesus hanging about in the clouds of our atmosphere for the time of the Seven Bowls? Not likely!

He is seen in the sky when the bowls begin to pour.

Please give Bible support for this What John saw in Rev 14:14 was allegorical and in no way means we will see it.

No, when the martyrs are raised, they are immortal right then.

This idea is wrong, Rev 20:4 says they will be brought back to life. Not immortal, as they can die again. Rev 20:6

Yes, we must ALL (without exception) appear before the judgment seat of Christ. But only the DEAD shall be judged

Paul clearly says; those who are alive and remain will be instantly changed and Death will be conquered. 1 Cor 15:50-56
This Prophecy can only refer to what will happen at the Great White Throne Judgment, AFTER the Millennium.

 

[ewq1938]

Your false assumption.
So you have Jesus hanging about in the clouds of our atmosphere for the time of the Seven Bowls? Not likely!

Stop creating strawmans.

Please give Bible support for this What John saw in Rev 14:14 was allegorical and in no way means we will see it.

Other scripture addresses Christ being seen at the second coming.

This idea is wrong, Rev 20:4 says they will be brought back to life. Not immortal, as they can die again. Rev 20:6

They cannot die again. It literally says, "on such the second death hath no power" yet you claim they can die again in direct contradiction to the scripture.

Paul clearly says; those who are alive and remain will be instantly changed and Death will be conquered. 1 Cor 15:50-56
This Prophecy can only refer to what will happen at the Great White Throne Judgment, AFTER the Millennium.

No, it can only refer to what happens at the second coming.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Clearly the dead will be immortal at the second coming, the rapture happening just after. This is basic prophecy 101 yet you don't understand it.

 

[Keraz]

Stop creating strawmans.

But you have Jesus coming , then the 7 Bowls must take place. Someone is wrong?

Other scripture addresses Christ being seen at the second coming.

Sure they do, but Revelation 14 does not.

They cannot die again. It literally says, "on such the second death hath no power" yet you claim they can die again in direct contradiction to the scripture.

The actual and final Second Death is being thrown into the Lake of Fire, Rev 20:14
Rev 20: 6 refers to the GT martyrs mortal second death. Just as happened to Lazarus, he died again, then as Martha said, at the Judgment, he will rise into immortality.

No, it can only refer to what happens at the second coming.

I repeat: 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is a Prophecy about the GWT Judgment, AFTER the Millennium, not at the glorious Return of Jesus.
Proved by how it is only then that Death is conquered. Revelation 21:4

 

[ewq1938]

But you have Jesus coming , then the 7 Bowls must take place. Someone is wrong?

Yes, the one making assumptions. I never said he remains in the clouds for all the bowls. He must at least be above Armageddon to conquer there and then the last bowl is poured.

Sure they do, but Revelation 14 does not.

Another strawman. No one claimed Jesus is seen by humans in Rev 14's wording.

The actual and final Second Death is being thrown into the Lake of Fire, Rev 20:14

Almost. The concept of death itself is cast into the lake.

Rev 20: 6 refers to the GT martyrs mortal second death.

Nope. Those will not experience the second death. They died the first death, then resurrected as immortals.

Just as happened to Lazarus, he died again, then as Martha said, at the Judgment, he will rise into immortality.

Naturally anyone resurrected back to mortality will die a second time but this is not the second death of Rev 20. It is the first death experienced twice. The first death is death of body only. The second death is death of body soul and spirit, the complete person.

 

[Keraz]

Yes, the one making assumptions. I never said he remains in the clouds for all the bowls. He must at least be above Armageddon to conquer there and then the last bowl is poured.

Jesus leaves heaven and Returns at the Seventh Bowl. Revelation 16:16-18
He confronts the armies gathered at Armageddon and kills them by the Power of His Word. Revelation 19:21

No one claimed Jesus is seen by humans in Rev 14's wording.

Rev 14:14-20 is another Prophecy about the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, centred on the Middle East region. The Lord will not be seen then.
But Jesus IS seen in Revelation 14:1, where He selects the 144k from out of the vast multitude of Christian peoples, which will take place soon after the Sixth Seal. Revelation 7:1-14

The concept of death itself is cast into the lake.

Real Death is Eternal separation from God.

Those will not experience the second death. They died the first death, then resurrected as immortals.

You oppose plainly stated scripture.
Thinking that anyone receives immortality before the GWT Judgment and the commencement of Eternity, is in direct opposition to what the Bible says.
Faithful Christian peoples are Promised immortality and we are told when it will come; AFTER the Millennium. Not before then.

Naturally anyone resurrected back to mortality will die a second time but this is not the second death of Rev 20. It is the first death experienced twice. The first death is death of body only. The second death is death of body soul and spirit, the complete person.

I agree.
The second death of those resurrected martyrs, will be a mortal, natural death. The real Second Death of all the ungodly peoples, is their permanent annihilation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How can the Seventh Trump be the Return of Jesus? There are the Seven Bowls yet to come, culminating with Armageddon.

Because scripture indicates that He will return at the last trumpet and the seventh trumpet is the last trumpet to sound. Also, your chronological approach to the book of Revelation is failing you.

Revelation 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.” 16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying: “We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. 18 The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

The "time has come for judging the dead"? When does the judging of the dead happen? It is described here:

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

This occurs AFTER the thousand years and Satan's little season. So, that means the seventh trumpet will sound AFTER the thousand years and at the end of Satan's little season.