The Judgement of Nations: Millennium Proof

[robert derrick]

It always surprises me how obvious prove of well-known Scripture, is overlooked during seemingly endless debates looking elsewhere.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is called the judgment of nations, because it's the Lord judging the nations of earth after coming in His glory.

It's the nations being judged between sheep and goats.

It's not a judgement of saved saints, that are already resurrected to meet Him in the air, with power given to reign with Him over those nations.

The judgement of nations on earth, is the judgment of nations, not the judgement of resurrected saints.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

This is called the judgment of nations

It’s not called anything.

That’s what you are labeling it as…

It correlates well with the “judgement seat of Christ” (2 Corinthians 5:10).

 

[robert derrick]

Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.

This is prophecy of the judgment of nations: He will judge the people on the earth. Not the saints already resurrected from the earth.

He will judge them with righteous equity, not with precondemned punishment.

There will be an actual judgment and governing rule. Not just a kangaroo court followed by mass slaughter of all people, where there is nothing left to rule.

O let the nations be glad and sing for joy; for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

The judgement of nations will be cause for joy on earth, with the innocent natural sheep, who have always been a prey for the wicked in any nation.

He governs those sheep, not destroys them. And it is after judging between them and the goats of the nations.

Prophecy of Scripture says the nations to be judged at His coming are to be singing for joy.

Prophecy of another christ coming with condemnation and death for all without judgment, is obviously a false christ.

Those who prophecy that christ, are falsely accusing the Lord Jesus Christ contrary to Scripture.

 

[WPM]

It always surprises me how obvious prove of well-known Scripture, is overlooked during seemingly endless debates looking elsewhere.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is called the judgment of nations, because it's the Lord judging the nations of earth after coming in His glory.

It's the nations being judged between sheep and goats.

It's not a judgement of saved saints, that are already resurrected to meet Him in the air, with power given to reign with Him over those nations.

The judgement of nations on earth, is the judgment of nations, not the judgement of resurrected saints.

The Premil theory can only survive by avoiding clear and repeat climactic Scripture. They have no answer to it. That is why they avoid threads like this like the plague. This is why Amils have to repeat their posts so often. It is impossible to get Premils to acknowledge and address this truth.

Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

A plain reading of the passage before us reveals that Christ is coming back with wrath to execute judgment and destroy all those left behind. He is not going to reward men for their rebellion by leading them unto the glorified new earth. Neither is Christ coming to engage in some ill-fated war against evil for a thousand years – that is not remotely in the text. The King of kings and Lord of lords will not have to fight for victory. He already won that decisively at the cross.

He is going to obliterate the wicked when He comes not reward them as you do and welcome them into your so-called future millennium. He will smash them to shivers. There is no one left to populate your supposed future millennium. I have already showed you this and you have skipped around it. I will repeat:

Revelation 19 is climactic. It is the end of the world and the end of the wicked. It therefore forbids the Premil paradigm.
Christ is seen pouring out His wrath without mixture upon the nations as He smites them in His fury with “a sharp sword” that comes “out of his mouth.” What is the result of this act? It shall “smite the nations” that have missed the catching away. This is what awaits the nations. They are going to be smitten. The word for “smite” in this text is the Greek word patasso, which means to strike with a weapon or to smite fatally. It means to smite down, cut down, to kill, slay.

Let us be clear: He is Coming to smite down the nations, not corral them into some sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted millennial age. It says that “he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” This is not a pretty sight. This is not loose talk by God. This is not something that the nations should look forward to. What awaits the nations that have rejected Christ is utter destruction and devastation. The nations left behind are totally destroyed. Christ destroys them by the very utterance of His mouth.

The two words interpreted “fierceness” and “wrath” here are thumos and orge which are regularly employed in the New Testament to mean ‘fierceness, indignation, wrath and vengeance’. The word orge carries the additional meaning of ‘violent passion’. Clearly the Lord is not happy with those left behind. Like those left behind in Noah’s day and Sodom they face an awful end, as they receive the reward of their rejection of Christ.

The picture being portrayed here is that of the grapes being crushed by the vineyard worker making wine – only trodden in righteous anger. The reference to “the winepress” is symbolic language denoting the fate of the wicked when Christ appears – that is why it is called “the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” The Christ-rejecter misses the catching away, and is consequently trampled underfoot like grapes being crushed in a winepress. The grapes are the disobedient of all nations. How can these rebels possibly escape such a furious end? True judgment and righteousness has now arrived in the form of Christ and the glorified saints. Like every other Second Coming passage, this is climactic language describing the final end of rebellious man.

It is hard to think how the Holy Spirit could have used more cogent illustrations to show the annihilation of the wicked. Rather than showing their gracious preservation from the wrath of God they are actually seen to be the focus of His awful fury at His return. Rather than being welcomed into some supposed glorious future millennial kingdom the ungodly are shown to be decimated at the second coming. The wicked are likened unto grapes that are crushed in the vineyard and a clay pot that is broken to bits when found to be flawed and unusable. How can anyone impute blessing upon the recipients of this fiery destruction? How could anyone turn the wrath of the Lord upon the wicked in Revelation 2 and 19 into some kind of spiritual blessing?

 

[WPM]

It always surprises me how obvious prove of well-known Scripture, is overlooked during seemingly endless debates looking elsewhere.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is called the judgment of nations, because it's the Lord judging the nations of earth after coming in His glory.

It's the nations being judged between sheep and goats.

It's not a judgement of saved saints, that are already resurrected to meet Him in the air, with power given to reign with Him over those nations.

The judgement of nations on earth, is the judgment of nations, not the judgement of resurrected saints.

Revelation 19:17-18 continues, “I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

Please see that the wicked are destroyed by the sword of His voice. This is complete wholesale total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

The feasting part of the marriage supper of the Lamb is a symbolism depicted the destruction of the wicked. Why can this not be a symbolic depiction of the return of Christ and the events that accompany it (including the destruction of the wicked)?

The first part of the narrative outlines a detailed account of the assignment given to “the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven” by the heavenly messenger. The “fowls” are instructed to “come and gather” themselves “together unto the supper of the great God” in order that they would “eat”:

The flesh of kings,
The flesh of captains,
The flesh of mighty men,
The flesh of horses, them that sit on them,
The flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

This passage powerfully and solemnly reveals the full extent of the devastation that is to be focused upon the wicked on the day of God’s wrath. In perfect keeping with the rest of Scripture, this narrative graphically shows us that the destruction that occurs will be immediate, absolute and total and that, at this stage – after “the marriage of the Lamb” (Rev 19:7) – everyone left behind will be completely consumed; the birds of heaven filling themselves with “the flesh of all men.” Significantly, the suffix “both free and bond, both small and great” is added in order to fully impress the enormity and all-inclusive nature of this feast.

The whole thrust of this reading surrounds a climactic end to the world. Like the rest of Scripture, it records the complete rescue of the saints in the “marriage of the lamb” and the complete destruction of the wicked when the fowls consume the entire wicked left behind. The passage makes no allowance for goats-survivors in this great destruction passage or mortals squeezing into a supposed future millennium. This reading seems to fit in with the scriptural pattern of an all-consummating Coming - all the wicked being consumed.

The second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ will be a unique day in the annals of human history and unprecedented in its all-consummating character. Obviously, no other day has ever seen the end of the world and the final complete defeat of every last enemy of righteousness, truth and Almighty God. Neither has any other day seen the destruction of all wickedness by way of fire before. Notwithstanding, the Lord draws our specific attention to two notable days in human history to compare it with, and to fully illustrate the character and finality of this all-consummating day. These two particular days are familiar to most and are found in Holy Writ (both in the Old Testament), and give us an unparalleled insight into the nature, extent and detail of judgment on that impending last day. While, evidently there is no previous individual bygone historic example of a total global annihilation of the wicked by fire, these two individual days, when joined together, vividly portray what will occur on the final day of time. These two former days being (1) the day that Noah entered into the ark and (2) the day that Lot was rescued out of Sodom.

 

[robert derrick]

It’s not called anything.

That’s what you are labeling it as…

Ok, in this instance, like the rapture, I agree with the Christian tradition of calling it the judgment of nations, since He will judge the nations.

I'll risk that much.

 

[robert derrick]

It correlates well with the “judgement seat of Christ” (2 Corinthians 5:10).

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is called the judgment of nations, because it's the Lord judging the nations of earth after coming in His glory.

It's the nations being judged between sheep and goats.

It's not a judgement of saved saints, that are already resurrected to meet Him in the air, with power given to reign with Him over those nations.

The judgement of nations on earth, is the judgment of nations, not the judgement of resurrected saints.

 

[robert derrick]

The Premil theory can only survive by avoiding clear and repeat climactic Scripture. They have no answer to it. That is why they avoid threads like this like the plague. This is why Amils have to repeat their posts so often. It is impossible to get Premils to acknowledge and address this truth.

Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

A plain reading of the passage before us reveals that Christ is coming back with wrath to execute judgment and destroy all those left behind. He is not going to reward men for their rebellion by leading them unto the glorified new earth. Neither is Christ coming to engage in some ill-fated war against evil for a thousand years – that is not remotely in the text. The King of kings and Lord of lords will not have to fight for victory. He already won that decisively at the cross.

He is going to obliterate the wicked when He comes not reward them as you do and welcome them into your so-called future millennium. He will smash them to shivers. There is no one left to populate your supposed future millennium. I have already showed you this and you have skipped around it. I will repeat:

Revelation 19 is climactic. It is the end of the world and the end of the wicked. It therefore forbids the Premil paradigm.
Christ is seen pouring out His wrath without mixture upon the nations as He smites them in His fury with “a sharp sword” that comes “out of his mouth.” What is the result of this act? It shall “smite the nations” that have missed the catching away. This is what awaits the nations. They are going to be smitten. The word for “smite” in this text is the Greek word patasso, which means to strike with a weapon or to smite fatally. It means to smite down, cut down, to kill, slay.

Let us be clear: He is Coming to smite down the nations, not corral them into some sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted millennial age. It says that “he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” This is not a pretty sight. This is not loose talk by God. This is not something that the nations should look forward to. What awaits the nations that have rejected Christ is utter destruction and devastation. The nations left behind are totally destroyed. Christ destroys them by the very utterance of His mouth.

The two words interpreted “fierceness” and “wrath” here are thumos and orge which are regularly employed in the New Testament to mean ‘fierceness, indignation, wrath and vengeance’. The word orge carries the additional meaning of ‘violent passion’. Clearly the Lord is not happy with those left behind. Like those left behind in Noah’s day and Sodom they face an awful end, as they receive the reward of their rejection of Christ.

The picture being portrayed here is that of the grapes being crushed by the vineyard worker making wine – only trodden in righteous anger. The reference to “the winepress” is symbolic language denoting the fate of the wicked when Christ appears – that is why it is called “the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” The Christ-rejecter misses the catching away, and is consequently trampled underfoot like grapes being crushed in a winepress. The grapes are the disobedient of all nations. How can these rebels possibly escape such a furious end? True judgment and righteousness has now arrived in the form of Christ and the glorified saints. Like every other Second Coming passage, this is climactic language describing the final end of rebellious man.

It is hard to think how the Holy Spirit could have used more cogent illustrations to show the annihilation of the wicked. Rather than showing their gracious preservation from the wrath of God they are actually seen to be the focus of His awful fury at His return. Rather than being welcomed into some supposed glorious future millennial kingdom the ungodly are shown to be decimated at the second coming. The wicked are likened unto grapes that are crushed in the vineyard and a clay pot that is broken to bits when found to be flawed and unusable. How can anyone impute blessing upon the recipients of this fiery destruction? How could anyone turn the wrath of the Lord upon the wicked in Revelation 2 and 19 into some kind of spiritual blessing?

About 2 minutes to respond. This proves it's all copy and paste.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is called the judgment of nations, because it's the Lord judging the nations of earth after coming in His glory.

It's the nations being judged between sheep and goats.

It's not a judgement of saved saints, that are already resurrected to meet Him in the air, with power given to reign with Him over those nations.

The judgement of nations on earth, is the judgment of nations, not the judgement of resurrected saints.

 

[robert derrick]

Revelation 19:17-18 continues, “I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

Please see that the wicked are destroyed by the sword of His voice. This is complete wholesale total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

The feasting part of the marriage supper of the Lamb is a symbolism depicted the destruction of the wicked. Why can this not be a symbolic depiction of the return of Christ and the events that accompany it (including the destruction of the wicked)?

The first part of the narrative outlines a detailed account of the assignment given to “the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven” by the heavenly messenger. The “fowls” are instructed to “come and gather” themselves “together unto the supper of the great God” in order that they would “eat”:

The flesh of kings,
The flesh of captains,
The flesh of mighty men,
The flesh of horses, them that sit on them,
The flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

This passage powerfully and solemnly reveals the full extent of the devastation that is to be focused upon the wicked on the day of God’s wrath. In perfect keeping with the rest of Scripture, this narrative graphically shows us that the destruction that occurs will be immediate, absolute and total and that, at this stage – after “the marriage of the Lamb” (Rev 19:7) – everyone left behind will be completely consumed; the birds of heaven filling themselves with “the flesh of all men.” Significantly, the suffix “both free and bond, both small and great” is added in order to fully impress the enormity and all-inclusive nature of this feast.

The whole thrust of this reading surrounds a climactic end to the world. Like the rest of Scripture, it records the complete rescue of the saints in the “marriage of the lamb” and the complete destruction of the wicked when the fowls consume the entire wicked left behind. The passage makes no allowance for goats-survivors in this great destruction passage or mortals squeezing into a supposed future millennium. This reading seems to fit in with the scriptural pattern of an all-consummating Coming - all the wicked being consumed.

The second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ will be a unique day in the annals of human history and unprecedented in its all-consummating character. Obviously, no other day has ever seen the end of the world and the final complete defeat of every last enemy of righteousness, truth and Almighty God. Neither has any other day seen the destruction of all wickedness by way of fire before. Notwithstanding, the Lord draws our specific attention to two notable days in human history to compare it with, and to fully illustrate the character and finality of this all-consummating day. These two particular days are familiar to most and are found in Holy Writ (both in the Old Testament), and give us an unparalleled insight into the nature, extent and detail of judgment on that impending last day. While, evidently there is no previous individual bygone historic example of a total global annihilation of the wicked by fire, these two individual days, when joined together, vividly portray what will occur on the final day of time. These two former days being (1) the day that Noah entered into the ark and (2) the day that Lot was rescued out of Sodom.

More copy and paste.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is called the judgment of nations, because it's the Lord judging the nations of earth after coming in His glory.

It's the nations being judged between sheep and goats.

It's not a judgement of saved saints, that are already resurrected to meet Him in the air, with power given to reign with Him over those nations.

The judgement of nations on earth, is the judgment of nations, not the judgement of resurrected saints.

 

[robert derrick]

Who are the sheep nations?
Who are the sheep nations?

You have no reasonable comprehension of things written.

All the nations are judged. The sheep and goats will be divided from among the nations. The judged sheep of the nations, will be all that is left of the nations, for Him to govern.

But now you agree with the proof. It is the nations of earth judged, not the resurrected saints judging them with Him.

O let the nations be glad and sing for joy; for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

Prophecy of a christ coming with condemnation and death for all without judgment, is obviously a false christ of false prophecy.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

the judgment of nations

Do you currently live in a “nation” @robert derrick ?

 

[jeffweeder]

It always surprises me how obvious prove of well-known Scripture, is overlooked during seemingly endless debates looking elsewhere.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is called the judgment of nations, because it's the Lord judging the nations of earth after coming in His glory.

It's the nations being judged between sheep and goats.

All people from all nations will be there to realize their eternal fate.

I will let the Lord explain what happens to both groups..., Bolded and underlined.,


Matt 25:
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 I was naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me [with help and ministering care]; I was in prison, and you came to Me [ignoring personal danger].’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You as a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘I assure you and most solemnly say to you, to the extent that you did it for one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it for Me.’

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons);

42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me [with help and ministering care].’ 44 Then they also [in their turn] will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or as a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will reply to them, ‘I assure you and most solemnly say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these [my followers], you did not do it for Me.’ 46 Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.”



This is clearly the FINAL judgment.

It's not a judgement of saved saints, that are already resurrected to meet Him in the air, with power given to reign with Him over those nations.

The judgement of nations on earth, is the judgment of nations, not the judgement of resurrected saints.

It is a Final judgment of either unending glory or unending misery...see bolded and underlined above.

All who have ever believed will be raised and glorified on this day.

2Tim 4
7 I have fought the good and worthy and noble fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith [firmly guarding the gospel against error]. 8 In the future there is reserved for me the [victor’s] crown of righteousness [for being right with God and doing right], which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that [great] day—and not to me only, but also to all those who have loved and longed for and welcomed His appearing.

 

[robert derrick]

All people from all nations will be there to realize their eternal fate.

The nations of the world judged by the Lord at His return, do not include any of the resurrected saints judging them with Him.

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?

This is clearly the FINAL judgment.

Then the resurrected saints will not rise first to meet Him in the air.

At least you're not OSAS, that forbids being judged by works.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[robert derrick]

We know a proof has been given, when people must contradict their own prophecy to reject it.

Here is their prophetic scenario in response to it: The Lord returns to earth only to kill all nations on earth. And then immediately resurrects all people of history together at the same time, to judge them all side by side.

1. And yet, they say they will first be resurrected bodily, to condemn all nations with Him, and then He destroys them all.

No man, including Jesus, is resurrected twice.

2. Since there is no bodily resurrection of the saints to see Him kill and destroy all flesh, then they cannot be judging and watching Him kill and destroy all flesh.

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?

1 Cor 6:2 is rejected outright.

3. They say all nations on earth will be immediately destroyed on earth at the Lord's return.

Therefore, All saints must already be dead at the Lord's return, in order to avoid being appointed to wrath of God.

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thess 4:15 must rejected as false prophecy of Scripture.

Or, there are saints still alive on earth at His return, and are also burned up in wrath. So that they will be resurrected with them.

To reject any time of bodily resurrected saints judging and ruling with the Lord on earth at His return:

There can be no saints alive and remaining at His return, since they will suffer His wrath by fire.

There can be no saints judging the world with Him.

 

[jeffweeder]

Then the resurrected saints will not rise first to meet Him in the air.

At least you're not OSAS, that forbids being judged by works.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The dead in Christ rise first at his coming and together with the living in Christ we are caught up in Glory together.

Do you reject 2Tim 4 that all in Christ are resurrected and rewarded together?.... even Paul?
Do you reject 2 Thess 1 saying the Lord comes in eternal vengeance against unbelief on the day we are resurrected and glorified?
Do you doubt Job even believes that the heavens have to be no more before any resurrection of the dead takes place.?
Do you doubt the heaven and earth pass away after the millennium of Rev 20?

 

[Gilligan]

It always surprises me how obvious prove of well-known Scripture, is overlooked during seemingly endless debates looking elsewhere.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is called the judgment of nations, because it's the Lord judging the nations of earth after coming in His glory.

It's the nations being judged between sheep and goats.

It's not a judgement of saved saints, that are already resurrected to meet Him in the air, with power given to reign with Him over those nations.

The judgement of nations on earth, is the judgment of nations, not the judgement of resurrected saints.

That is simple, isn't it. He comes to judge the nations, and we are resurrected to judge the world with Him.

 

[Gilligan]

We know a proof has been given, when people must contradict their own prophecy to reject it.

Here is their prophetic scenario in response to it: The Lord returns to earth only to kill all nations on earth. And then immediately resurrects all people of history together at the same time, to judge them all side by side.

1. And yet, they say they will first be resurrected bodily, to condemn all nations with Him, and then He destroys them all.

No man, including Jesus, is resurrected twice.

2. Since there is no bodily resurrection of the saints to see Him kill and destroy all flesh, then they cannot be judging and watching Him kill and destroy all flesh.

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?

1 Cor 6:2 is rejected outright.

3. They say all nations on earth will be immediately destroyed on earth at the Lord's return.

Therefore, All saints must already be dead at the Lord's return, in order to avoid being appointed to wrath of God.

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thess 4:15 must rejected as false prophecy of Scripture.

Or, there are saints still alive on earth at His return, and are also burned up in wrath. So that they will be resurrected with them.

To reject any time of bodily resurrected saints judging and ruling with the Lord on earth at His return:

There can be no saints alive and remaining at His return, since they will suffer His wrath by fire.

There can be no saints judging the world with Him.

You've nailed the box they are in is they claim to be resurrected and judge and rule with Him over the nations, and then be resurrected again with the nations they say they will judge and help to destroy.

 

[rwb]

It always surprises me how obvious prove of well-known Scripture, is overlooked during seemingly endless debates looking elsewhere.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is called the judgment of nations, because it's the Lord judging the nations of earth after coming in His glory.

It's the nations being judged between sheep and goats.

It's not a judgement of saved saints, that are already resurrected to meet Him in the air, with power given to reign with Him over those nations.

The judgement of nations on earth, is the judgment of nations, not the judgement of resurrected saints.

The nations are represented as goats and sheep which is to say Christ separates unbelievers from believers.

Matthew 25:31-34 (KJV) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

When the saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the air they shall be resurrected in immortal and incorruptible bodies. (1Cor 15:51-53) Then in resurrected immortal/incorruptible bodies saints too shall be called to the judgment. Every work done in the body shall be judged whether good or evil. Those judged good, at Christ's right hand, shall inherit eternal life, those judged evil resurrected to condemnation in the lake of fire.

Romans 14:10 (KJV) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 (KJV) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The sheep and goat judgment of the nations shall be at the great white throne of God at the last day where all the dead (goats), not the living (sheep) shall be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life. The goats judged in bodies of death and corruption, the sheep in immortal/incorruptible bodies like Christ'. John is given to understand the judgment for condemnation shall be upon all the goats/dead found upon the earth when Christ returns. There will be only one judgment where the dead or the goats throughout the nations shall be cast into everlasting fire. Those cast there are not sheep because sheep are not of the dead, but are of the living in immortality and incorruption.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It always surprises me how obvious prove of well-known Scripture, is overlooked during seemingly endless debates looking elsewhere.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is called the judgment of nations, because it's the Lord judging the nations of earth after coming in His glory.

It's the nations being judged between sheep and goats.

It's not a judgement of saved saints, that are already resurrected to meet Him in the air, with power given to reign with Him over those nations.

The judgement of nations on earth, is the judgment of nations, not the judgement of resurrected saints.

Where does scripture teach that nations, rather than individuals, will inherit eternal life (Matt 25:46) in the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world (Matt 25:34)?

Where does scripture teach that nations, rather than individuals, will be cast into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41)?

All other scripture teaches that these things relate to individual believers and individual unbelievers, so why would Matthew 25:31-46 be any different from other scripture? Is it important to you to interpret this passage in such a way that it doesn't contradict other scripture?

 

[strepho]

Zechariah chapter 14, thiers no nations in Jesus kingdom at the 7th trump. Everyone is in their spiritual body during millennium. The millennium is time of teaching and discipline for the spirtualty dead, revelation chapter 20 to document. The millennium is time for priest's, that's God's Elect. Their called Zadok during the millennium, Ezekiel chapter 44 to document. The millennium is time of teaching and discipline for the spirtualty dead.