The Lake of Fire or Hell

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Jane_Doe22

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You will go to Hell forever if you do not get out of that cult!

You know nothing at all about the actual Jesus Christ. You've been lied too - probably for your entire life.

19 Random Reasons I Am Not a Mormon....
  1. Joseph's many wives and sexual sin Click here.
  2. Brigham (Liked 'Em) Young Click here.
  3. Failed civil war prophecy Click here.
  4. No Evidence Talk to them
  5. DNA Evidence Click here.
  6. Mormons discuss Hill Cumorah Click here.
  7. Jericho's Walls prove the Bible Click here.
  8. Failed David W. Patten prophecy Click here.
  9. The Book of Abraham Click here.
  10. Pagan worship used for the book of Abraham Click here.
  11. Early Christians Corroborated about the Resurrection Click here.
  12. Mormonism contradicts the Bible Read all of Paul's epistles
  13. Mormons say "trust your heart" Talk to any Mormon missionary
  14. Awful translations Click here.
  15. Mormons don't use the translation they believe was inspired by God Click here.
  16. I was wrong about how much money the Mormon church has. It's way more Click here.
  17. LDS discredit the Bible Click here.
  18. Astronomical Evidence for the Bible: The Pleiades is Bound Click here. The belt of Orion is loose Click here.
  19. Cowdery left the faith Click here. Christ's followers didn't Click here.
That’s not accurate to what I beleive. I acknowledge your choice to continue beating the “anti-cult” drum. Have a nice day.
 

Logikos

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That’s not accurate to what I beleive. I acknowledge your choice to continue beating the “anti-cult” drum. Have a nice day.
It is what Mormonism teaches. If you deny all of them then you aren't a Mormon at all. If you acknowledge even one of them, you're a member of a cult that has nothing to do with the real Jesus or the real Christianity.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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It is what Mormonism teaches. If you deny all of them then you aren't a Mormon at all. If you acknowledge even one of them, you're a member of a cult that has nothing to do with the real Jesus or the real Christianity.
Have a nice day.
 

amigo de christo

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It's that people who believe God trust in his Grace and Mercy.
While others choose to follow condemnation.

Hugs
ziggy . my dear dear friend . now paul even reminded the church
to behold BOTH . both the goodness and severity of GOD . IT DO A SOUL REAL GOOD TO LEARN THEM BOTH REAL GOOD .
 
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amigo de christo

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He who beholds not the severity of GOD will always be led to preaching a false goodness , a false love o GOD .
He who beholds only the severity of GOD often preaches not the SOLUTION either .
GOTTA BEHOLD BOTH . BOTH . and remind all OF BOTH .
 
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amigo de christo

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AN example .
Those who behold not the severity of GOD
often try and omit hells fire and damnation by preaching another false goodness of GOD .
RATHER than PREACHING THE DIRE NECESSITY to BELIEVE ON CHRIST
they try and preach a version of love that omits things . tries to make god appear all loving and even denying HIS OWN JUDGEMENTS .
TIME TO PREACH THE DIRE NECESSITY TO BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS .
Cause i do assure us all , the lake of fire is very real , BUT THE SOLUTION IS FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST
not trying to air conditoin or omit hell , but rather JUST PREACH THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST .
Cause lambs WONT END UP THERE , but all who rejected HIM , SURELY SURELY WILL .
 
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keithr

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And yes, many modern translation change wording to accommodate certain false beliefs such as annihilationism
So why is it that every single English translation, including all the older ones, agree on the meaning? It sounds like you are trying to spread lies!
 

Big Boy Johnson

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So why is it that every single English translation, including all the older ones, agree on the meaning? It sounds like you are trying to spread lies!

The lies are coming from the one who has indoctrinated you to believe annihilationism in direct opposition to what Jesus said about those going to hell being tormented for all eternity

Matthew 25:46
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life

Mark 9:47-48

If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched

Read it and weep homie... weep in repentance before the Lord for being in opposition to Him!
 
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keithr

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Don't lie! I posted not only bible verses but an entire argument based on those verses.
I don't knowingly, or intentionally lie. You made a statement, with seemingly (to me) no evidence to support that statement. You then quoted some verses of Scripture which seemed unrelated and drifted off to trying to support the trinity.

Here it is again, ...

If you do not believe that God Himself died for your sin, you are not saved and if you physically die in that condition, you will pay your own sin debt. Therefore repent and believe that your sins may be blotted out and that you may live. While there is life, there is hope but when death comes, so also comes the judgment.​
Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
This doesn't have anything to do with God dying.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.​
You are preaching another Jesus that the Apostles did not preach, and are presumably claiming that Jesus was God and therefore God died. Nowhere does it claim that in the Bible.

The Mormons, JW's, "believe in Jesus," but not the Lord Jesus Christ of the scripture...​
That's totally irrelevant to your claim that God died for mankind's sins.

There is one God (See Isaiah 43:10; Isaiah 44:6-8, Isaiah 45:5).​
Yes, and God has never died. God annointed Jesus to redeem mankind and to be king over His kingdom. In the role as redeemer Jesus had to die, but Jesus is not God - he was sent by God and was obedient to God, and he is God's only begotten son. As Isaiah 43:11 says (WEB):

(11) I myself am Yahweh; and besides me there is no savior.​

but God (YHVH) did not personally die in order to save mankind, he instead appointed His son, Jesus, to redeem and save mankind. As Paul wrote, Colossians 1:13-20 (WEB):

(13) {God} who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the Kingdom of the Son of his love;​
(14) in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins;​
(15) who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.​
(16) For by him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and for him.​
(17) He is before all things, and in him all things are held together.​
(18) He is the head of the body, the assembly, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.​
(19) For all the fullness was pleased to dwell in him;​
(20) and through him {Jesus} to reconcile all things to himself {God}, by him, whether things on the earth, or things in the heavens, having made peace through the blood of his cross.​
Remember that John wrote, John 3:16 (WEB):

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him {Jesus} should not perish, but have eternal life.​

He did not write:

For God so loved the world, that he died himself, that whoever believes in him {God} should not perish, but have eternal life.​

The Lord Jesus Christ is both God, and man. (John 1:1, John 1:14; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, etc, etc, etc.)​
That is a misconception, but I would probably be judged to be breaking the anti Trinity discussion rule if I started to explain that!

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins​
Jesus claiming that he was the Messiah ,i.e. the one anointd by God to be the redeemer and saviour of mankind, does not mean that he was God, nor that God later died. Don't believe that absurd claim that Jesus saying in Aramaic "I am he" means that he was claiming to be God! The very next verse has his accusers (the pharisees) asking, “Who are you?”, so they obviously didn't undertand Jesus to be making that claim. His reply was, John 8:25 (WEB):

(25) They said therefore to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning.​

which was that he was the Son of God (e.g. John 9:35-37). That was what the chief priests used to condemn Jesus to death, John 19:7 (WEB):

(7) The Jews answered him {Pilate}, “We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.”​

I'm sure that if for a moment they thought that Jesus was claiming to be God Himself, that they would have used that accusation instead, or possibly even just stoned Jesus themselves!

John also wrote, John 20:31 (WEB):

(31) but these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.​

And Paul, upon his conversion, Acts 9:20 (WEB):

(20) Immediately in the synagogues he proclaimed the Christ, that he is the Son of God.​

There's no doubt about it, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, and the Bible declares him to be the Son of God, and nowhere in the Bible does it say that God died (or was killed)!

The Lord Jesus Christ, in no uncertain terms, ties himself to the Great "I Am," the LORD God, that appeared to Moses, at the "burning bush," and thus, tells everyone, who has "ears to hear," that if you do not believe He is God, you will die in your sins.​
That is very wrong! You have a strange idea of "no uncertain terms"! Jesus referred to God as his Father and as his God (John 20:17), so I'd say it is vey uncertain that Jesus "ties himself to" God (by which I presume you mean that he was claiming to be God).

If the Lord Jesus Christ is not God, He is in no position to claim to be the "lamb without blemish, sinless, the satisfactory sacrifice (propitiation) and in no position to save anyone.​
Why isn't he? Genesis 22:8 (WEB):

(8) Abraham said, “God will provide himself the lamb for a burnt offering, my son.” So they both went together.​

Was the lamb that God provided Abraham God Himself in the disguise/form of a lamb, or was it a lamb? It was a type foretelling how God would provide a lamb for sacrifice, a sacrifce to redeem mankind, and that sacrifice would be His only begotten Son, just as Isaac, who Abraham was willing to sacrifice, was Abraham's only begotten son.

I strongly disagree!
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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You are preaching another Jesus that the Apostles did not preach, and are presumably claiming that Jesus was God and therefore God died. Nowhere does it claim that in the Bible.

And yet... the Father called Jesus... GOD:

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.


Of course it was Jesus Who went to the Cross... God's Word having been made Flesh, none the less Jesus is also God

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.
 
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Hobie

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That's a ridulous claim to make - it sounds like you have no sensible counter argument. If you don't like your American Satandard Version translation, then look into it more deeply yourself, rather than making yourself look stupid by claiming it's a fake quote.

Try the KJV, Ezekiel 28:19

(19) All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.​

According to Stong's about the Hebrew word ayin (emphasis mine):

ay'-yin​
As if from a primitive root meaning to be nothing or not exist; a non-entity; generally used as a negative particle: - else, except, fail [father-] less, be gone, in [-curable], neither, never, no (where), none, nor (any, thing), not, nothing, to nought, past, un [-searchable], well-nigh, without.​

Are all these translations (from the Bible Hub) fake too? :

New International Version
All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.'"

New Living Translation
All who knew you are appalled at your fate. You have come to a terrible end, and you will exist no more.

English Standard Version
All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; you have come to a dreadful end and shall be no more forever.”

Berean Study Bible
All the nations who know you are appalled over you. You have come to a horrible end and will be no more.’ ”

New American Standard Bible
“All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever.”’”

NASB 1995
"All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever."'"

NASB 1977
“All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified, And you will be no more.”’”

Amplified Bible
“All the peoples (nations) who knew you Are appalled at you; You have come to a horrible and terrifying end And will forever cease to be.”’”

Christian Standard Bible
All those who know you among the peoples are appalled at you. You have become an object of horror and will never exist again.’ ”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
All those who know you among the nations are appalled at you. You have become an object of horror and will never exist again."

Contemporary English Version
and the people of other nations are shocked. Your punishment was horrible, and you are gone forever.

Good News Translation
You are gone, gone forever, and all the nations that had come to know you are terrified, afraid that they will share your fate."

GOD'S WORD® Translation
All the nations who knew you are horrified because of you. You have come to a terrible end, and you will never exist again.'"

International Standard Version
Everyone who knows you throughout all the nations will be appalled at your calamity and you will no longer exist forever."'"

NET Bible
All who know you among the peoples are shocked at you; you have become terrified and will be no more.'"

Classic Translations
King James Bible
All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

New King James Version
All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you; You have become a horror, And shall be no more forever.”

King James 2000 Bible
All they that know you among the people shall be astonished at you: you shall be a horror, and never shall you be anymore.

New Heart English Bible
All those who know you among the peoples shall be astonished at you: you have become a terror, and you shall nevermore have any being."

World English Bible
All those who know you among the peoples shall be astonished at you: you have become a terror, and you shall nevermore have any being.

American King James Version
All they that know you among the people shall be astonished at you: you shall be a terror, and never shall you be any more.

American Standard Version
All they that know thee among the peoples shall be astonished at thee: thou art become a terror, and thou shalt nevermore have any being.

A Faithful Version
All who know you among the people shall be astonished at you; you became a terror, and you will not be any more." ? "

Darby Bible Translation
All they that know thee among the peoples shall be amazed at thee: thou art become a terror, and thou shalt never be any more.

English Revised Version
All they that know thee among the peoples shall be astonished at thee: thou art become a terror, and thou shalt never be any more.

Webster's Bible Translation
All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Early Modern
Geneva Bible of 1587
All they that knowe thee among the people, shalbe astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terrour, and never shalt thou be any more.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
Al they that haue ben acquainted with thee among the heathen shalbe abashed at thee: thou hast ben a terrour, and never shalt thou be any more.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
All they that haue bene acquaunted with the amonge the Heithe, shalbe abasshed at the: seinge thou art so clene brought to naught, and comest no more vp.

Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
All knowing you among the peoples "" Have been astonished at you, "" You have been terrors, and you are not—for all time.”

Young's Literal Translation
All knowing thee among the peoples Have been astonished at thee, Wastes thou hast been, and thou art not -- to the age.'

Smith's Literal Translation
All knowing thee among the peoples were astonished at thee: thou wert terrors; and thou not, even to forever.

Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
All that shall see thee among the nations, shall be astonished at thee: thou art brought to nothing, and thou shalt never be any more.

Catholic Public Domain Version
All who gaze upon you among the Gentiles will be stupefied over you. You were made out of nothing, and you shall not be, forever.”

Translations from Aramaic
Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
And all who know you among the people shall be ashamed at you, for you have been for destruction and you are not to eternity

Lamsa Bible
All those who know you among the people shall be astonished at you; you shall be brought to destruction, and you never shall be any more.

OT Translations
JPS Tanakh 1917
All they that know thee among the peoples shall be appalled at thee; thou art become a terror, and thou shalt never be any more.'

Brenton Septuagint Translation
And all that know thee among the nations shall groan over thee: thou art gone to destruction, and thou shalt not exist any more.


I can't find any translation which translates it to any other meaning than "you shall exist no more forever".
It is all that they can do is to deny what is there, they will just keep grinding away refusing to discern. If they dont have the love for the truth, what can you do.
 

keithr

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And yet... the Father called Jesus... GOD:

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:9 (WEB):
(9) You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.”​

God YHVH refers to His only begotten Son as a god, for that is what he is (a mighty one). It continues:

(10) And, “You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands.​
(11) They will perish, but you continue. They all will grow old like a garment does.​
(12) You will roll them up like a mantle, and they will be changed; but you are the same. Your years will not fail.”​
(13) But which of the angels has he told at any time, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies the footstool of your feet?”​
(14) Aren’t they all serving spirits, sent out to do service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?​

There is only one almighty God - YHVH. Jesus is second only to YHVH, just as Joseph was second only to Pharaoh (Genesis 41:40-41). God refers to His Son as god, but not as YHVH, for that is God's name only.

The chapter starts with, Hebrews 1:1-2 (WEB):

(1) God, having in the past spoken to the fathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,​
(2) has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds.​

Just because God spoke through prophets, that does not mean that those prophets were God, and likewise God speaking through His Son does not mean that God's Son is God! It's simple common sense!

Of course it was Jesus Who went to the Cross... God's Word having been made Flesh, none the less Jesus is also God

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.
There's no excuse for quoting 1 John 5:7 in that corrupted form. As Albert Barnes' Notes says, "If there is one thing that is certain in textual criticism, it is that this famous passage is not genuine. ... The only words which are genuine in this verse are, For there are three that bear record, or more accurately, For those who bear witness are three: ". As you have quoted it, it is, to put it in a simiilar way to your post #149, "a fake quote from" Trinitarians who corrupted the Scripture to create their own fake bible translation so they could say "hey man, it's what the Bible says".

You should put your trust in uncorrupted verses, like 1 Corinthians 8:6 (WEB):

(6) yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.​
 
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Logikos

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I don't knowingly, or intentionally lie. You made a statement, with seemingly (to me) no evidence to support that statement. You then quoted some verses of Scripture which seemed unrelated and drifted off to trying to support the trinity.


This doesn't have anything to do with God dying.


You are preaching another Jesus that the Apostles did not preach, and are presumably claiming that Jesus was God and therefore God died. Nowhere does it claim that in the Bible.


That's totally irrelevant to your claim that God died for mankind's sins.


Yes, and God has never died. God annointed Jesus to redeem mankind and to be king over His kingdom. In the role as redeemer Jesus had to die, but Jesus is not God - he was sent by God and was obedient to God, and he is God's only begotten son. As Isaiah 43:11 says (WEB):

(11) I myself am Yahweh; and besides me there is no savior.​

but God (YHVH) did not personally die in order to save mankind, he instead appointed His son, Jesus, to redeem and save mankind. As Paul wrote, Colossians 1:13-20 (WEB):

(13) {God} who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the Kingdom of the Son of his love;​
(14) in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins;​
(15) who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.​
(16) For by him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and for him.​
(17) He is before all things, and in him all things are held together.​
(18) He is the head of the body, the assembly, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.​
(19) For all the fullness was pleased to dwell in him;​
(20) and through him {Jesus} to reconcile all things to himself {God}, by him, whether things on the earth, or things in the heavens, having made peace through the blood of his cross.​
Remember that John wrote, John 3:16 (WEB):

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him {Jesus} should not perish, but have eternal life.​

He did not write:

For God so loved the world, that he died himself, that whoever believes in him {God} should not perish, but have eternal life.​


That is a misconception, but I would probably be judged to be breaking the anti Trinity discussion rule if I started to explain that!


Jesus claiming that he was the Messiah ,i.e. the one anointd by God to be the redeemer and saviour of mankind, does not mean that he was God, nor that God later died. Don't believe that absurd claim that Jesus saying in Aramaic "I am he" means that he was claiming to be God! The very next verse has his accusers (the pharisees) asking, “Who are you?”, so they obviously didn't undertand Jesus to be making that claim. His reply was, John 8:25 (WEB):

(25) They said therefore to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning.​

which was that he was the Son of God (e.g. John 9:35-37). That was what the chief priests used to condemn Jesus to death, John 19:7 (WEB):

(7) The Jews answered him {Pilate}, “We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.”​

I'm sure that if for a moment they thought that Jesus was claiming to be God Himself, that they would have used that accusation instead, or possibly even just stoned Jesus themselves!

John also wrote, John 20:31 (WEB):

(31) but these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.​

And Paul, upon his conversion, Acts 9:20 (WEB):

(20) Immediately in the synagogues he proclaimed the Christ, that he is the Son of God.​

There's no doubt about it, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, and the Bible declares him to be the Son of God, and nowhere in the Bible does it say that God died (or was killed)!


That is very wrong! You have a strange idea of "no uncertain terms"! Jesus referred to God as his Father and as his God (John 20:17), so I'd say it is vey uncertain that Jesus "ties himself to" God (by which I presume you mean that he was claiming to be God).


Why isn't he? Genesis 22:8 (WEB):

(8) Abraham said, “God will provide himself the lamb for a burnt offering, my son.” So they both went together.​

Was the lamb that God provided Abraham God Himself in the disguise/form of a lamb, or was it a lamb? It was a type foretelling how God would provide a lamb for sacrifice, a sacrifce to redeem mankind, and that sacrifice would be His only begotten Son, just as Isaac, who Abraham was willing to sacrifice, was Abraham's only begotten son.


I strongly disagree!
You are not a Christian, except perhaps in name only and I don't know whether even that much is true.

I DO NOT debate Christian doctrine with unbelievers.

Bottom line....

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.​
John 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”​
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”​
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him;​
 

keithr

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You are not a Christian, except perhaps in name only and I don't know whether even that much is true.
You seem to think that if someone doesn't believe in the Trinity then they are not a Christian. You're wrong about that. Unfortunately we are not allowed to debate it in this forum, so I'll have to leave you to wallow in that error. :(
 

Logikos

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You seem to think that if someone doesn't believe in the Trinity then they are not a Christian. You're wrong about that. Unfortunately we are not allowed to debate it in this forum, so I'll have to leave you to wallow in that error. :(
I said nothing about the Trinity doctrine, per se. That's your own inference.

I know for a fact that if you deny the deity of Christ you are not a Christian. You are lost in your sin and will pay your own sin debt if you die in that condition.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

John 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him;
 

keithr

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I said nothing about the Trinity doctrine, per se. That's your own inference.
Yep!

I know for a fact that if you deny the deity of Christ you are not a Christian. You are lost in your sin and will pay your own sin debt if you die in that condition.
Well deity means, "The state of being a god; divine nature; godhood", "The essential nature or condition of being a god; divinity" (from Deity Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary). I have never denied that Jesus, since his resurrection, has had the same divine nature that God has. Note also:

2 Peter 1:4 (WEB):
(4) by which he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.​
1 John 3:2 (WEB):
(2) Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that when he {Jesus} is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is.​
Philippians 3:20-21 (WEB):
(20) For our citizenship is in heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;​
(21) who will change the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working by which he is able even to subject all things to himself.​

Christians too have the promise that they will die, then be resurrected and changed to be like Jesus now is, following in his footsteps. They are described as becoming members of the body of Christ, and becoming the bride of Christ. They won't become members of God's body, nor become God's bride. 2 Corinthians 5:17 (WEB):

(17) Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new.​

God did not die and become a new creation of God! Jesus did die and at his resurrection he became the first of a new creation:

Romans 8:28-34
(28) We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose.
(29) For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.​
(30) Whom he predestined, those he also called. Whom he called, those he also justified. Whom he justified, those he also glorified.​
(31) What then shall we say about these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?​
(32) He who didn’t spare his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how would he not also with him freely give us all things?​
(33) Who could bring a charge against God’s chosen ones? It is God who justifies.​
(34) Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, yes rather, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.​

God's only begotten Son having been changed from a man to have the same nature as God, does not mean that when he died as a man that it was God that died - that's totally nonsensical! I don't deny Jesus' deity, I do deny that God Himself died for our sins.

As Peter said, Acts 2:22-24 (WEB):
(22) “Men of Israel, hear these words! Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved by God to you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him among you, even as you yourselves know,​
(23) him, being delivered up by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by the hand of lawless men, crucified and killed;​
(24) whom God raised up, having freed him from the agony of death, because it was not possible that he should be held by it.​

God's Son took on human form, not God Himself, and was crucified. After 3 days God raised His Son to life again. During those 3 days God was still alive, just as He always has been and ever will be.

John 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Jesus saying that he was alive before Abraham was born, is not a claim that he was God! The Greek is ego "I" and eimi "to be, to exist, am, or have been", e.g. in John 14:9 eimi is translated as "have I been":

(9) Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How do you say, ‘Show us the Father?’​

In John 8:58 it would be more properly translated as "from before Abraham was born, I have existed"
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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God YHVH refers to His only begotten Son as a god

That's false doctrine! Jesus is not "a" god.... He is God's Word come in the flesh!

The Father... is God, the Son... is God... the Holy Ghost... is God.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

You fellas need to start accepting what the Lord says and quit reading these commentaries


Just because God spoke through prophets, that does not mean that those prophets were God

You must be day dreaming again... I never said God's prophets were God.

What you fail to understand is... God spoke His Word thru them... and it's His Word that carries His Power and Authority.


There's no excuse for quoting 1 John 5:7 in that corrupted form

The darkness has blinded your mind homie...

Have you not seen all the scriptures speaking of God the Father?
Have you not seen all the scriptures speaking of God the Son?
Have you not seen all the scriptures speaking of God the Holy Ghost?

You've obviously been reading some commentaries written by people with dark and faulty understanding.

Hope that gets better for you homnie, I really do!
 
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keithr

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1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

You fellas need to start accepting what the Lord says and quit reading these commentaries
You are very slow to grasp what people tell you! So I'll try once more to help you understand. You seem to be too lazy to research it for yourself, even though it is so easy to do so nowadays - it took me only about a minute to come up with the webpage On the corruption of 1 John 5:7-8, the “Comma Johanneum”, from which here is an extract:

Just recently on Facebook, I’ve been quoted a famous text, verses which for hundreds of years were a favorite trinitarian proof text, seemingly the “smoking gun” verse that was needed – 1 John 5:7-8. Here’s how it reads in the King James Bible:​
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.​
Scholars refer to the parts in bold as the Comma Johanneum. The only problem is that this is demonstrably a corruption; and it was inserted very late. In short, a marginal note from the high middle ages jumped into the main body of the text. The correct reading is​
There are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree. (NRSV)​
This is only relevant to the Trinity (or the trinity) in that it mentions God’s Spirit/spirit; there’s no longer any statement that the Three are one god. To our shame, this corruption was known to the great scholar Erasmus (1466-1536). But we still have some people citing the corrupted version. This is a failure of biblical education in various churches since that time.​
Here’s an in-depth article that tells the whole story: Pastor Sean Finnegan: The Story Behind The Comma Johanneum (1 John 5.7)

If you'd prefer to watch a short video, see 1 John 5:7 Explained - "Three Bear Record"?? - Sean Finnegan & J. Dan Gill - The Comma Johanneum.

You must be day dreaming again... I never said God's prophets were God.
You must be day dreaming again! I never said that you did claim that prophets were God! I was just explaining a point, and you jumped to the completely wrong conclusion before finishing reading the sentence! This is what I wrote:

Hebrews 1:1-2 (WEB):​
(1) God, having in the past spoken to the fathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,​
(2) has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds.​
Just because God spoke through prophets, that does not mean that those prophets were God, and likewise God speaking through His Son does not mean that God's Son is God! It's simple common sense!​

What you fail to understand is... God spoke His Word thru them... and it's His Word that carries His Power and Authority.
Err. Look again. I had written, "Just because God spoke through prophets, ... and likewise God speaking through His Son". So far from failing to understand, it's actually what I wrote, and is what the Bible verses said! The point I was making is that God speaking through somebody doesn't make that person God. But perhaps this is a digression from your original claim that God called Jesus God and therefore Jesus must be God (Hebrews 1:8). You have ignored the following verse that I quoted, Hebrews 1:9 (WEB):

(9) You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.”​

Does God have a God? Here God was claiming to be His Son's God. Therefore Jesus can't be almighty God YHVH.

Deuteronomy 6:4 (WEB):
(4) Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God. Yahweh is one.​
Mark 12:29-30 (WEB):
(29) Jesus answered, “The greatest is, ‘Hear, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one:​
(30) you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment.​

Have you not seen all the scriptures speaking of God the Father?
Yes. The phrase occurs 11 - 16 times, depending on which Bible translation you use. For example:

Colossians 1:3 (WEB):
(3) We give thanks to God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,​
Colossians 3:17 (WEB):
(17) Whatever you do, in word or in deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father, through him.​
2 Peter 1:17 (WEB):
(17) For he received from God the Father honor and glory when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”​
Jude 1:1 (WEB):
(1) Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ:​

Have you not seen all the scriptures speaking of God the Son?
No. That phrase does not exist in the Bible.

Have you not seen all the scriptures speaking of God the Holy Ghost?
No. That phrase does not exist in the Bible.

You've obviously been reading some commentaries written by people with dark and faulty understanding.
You obviously need to pay more attention to God's word, and don't just accept what people have told you. Satan has sown some fake doctrine in the Church, and you have fallen for his deception.
 

Hobie

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That's false doctrine! Jesus is not "a" god.... He is God's Word come in the flesh!

The Father... is God, the Son... is God... the Holy Ghost... is God.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

You fellas need to start accepting what the Lord says and quit reading these commentaries




You must be day dreaming again... I never said God's prophets were God.

What you fail to understand is... God spoke His Word thru them... and it's His Word that carries His Power and Authority.




The darkness has blinded your mind homie...

Have you not seen all the scriptures speaking of God the Father?
Have you not seen all the scriptures speaking of God the Son?
Have you not seen all the scriptures speaking of God the Holy Ghost?

You've obviously been reading some commentaries written by people with dark and faulty understanding.

Hope that gets better for you homnie, I really do!
Wow, the darkness is coming as you say, and we see many ever learning, and yet....
 

Big Boy Johnson

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You are very slow to grasp what people tell you!

I go by what the Lord says in His Word... not what people say especially when they are speaking in opposition to God's Word.


No. That phrase does not exist in the Bible.

Wake up homie... there are many scriptures speaking of Jesus.


No. That phrase does not exist in the Bible.

Wake up homie... there are many scriptures speaking of the Holy Spirit


You obviously need to pay more attention to God's word

Not according to the spirit of error you have been listening to!


Wow, the darkness is coming as you say, and we see many ever learning, and yet....

That's what the demons claim as they twist and ignore God's Word.
 
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