CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Yes, your version says "Israel", but the Greek does not.
Who are the Gentiles co heirs with?
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Yes, your version says "Israel", but the Greek does not.
Doesnt in the KJ, or teh esv, or teh 1611 kj
In the verse you cited, they are co heirs with believing Jews as I already stated in post #76.Who are the Gentiles co heirs with?
In the verse you cited, they are co heirs with believing Jews as I already stated in post #76.
You don't know me at all. How can you make such personal pronouncements of judgments. I was speaking to you in general terms that apply to all Christians and you turn around and launch specific accusations at me.God's standard of perfect righteousness only applies to a person who is seeking to be justified by the law. My justification/righteousness comes through faith in Messiah Yeshua. Therefore, my failure to keep the law at certain times is not a problem. When I sin, I confess, repent and receive forgiveness. The Almighty knows my heart and my desire to obey Him by keeping His laws. You, on the other hand, do not desire to obey His laws because you have been deceived into thinking they no longer apply to you. Your constant law breaking is problematic because you do not confess, repent and receive forgiveness since you do not believe you are sinning (sin being the transgression of the law - 1 John 3:4). You will be paid accordingly through the loss of rewards and blessings (not necessarily the loss of salvation, although that is a possibility depending on whether you are willfully sinning).
You don't know me at all. How can you make such personal pronouncements of judgments. I was speaking to you in general terms that apply to all Christians and you turn around and launch specific accusations at me.
Where did you get the notion, for example, that I do not desire to obey His law?
That wasnt the question, it is what was written in your ver of the bible, see how they are all different, adding too and taking away. As for the Heirs bit, cant answer that, as I dont know, but we are fellow Heirs with Christ in Gods Kingdom, all that He has is ours.Then who are the co heirs?
Perhaps to the intent of the heart and not the outward letter or outward performance. Point?Christ talk obedience to the intent of the law, not the letter.
Since you judged me as not keeping the law and of sinning, I assumed you do not keep the law either. If you desired to obey YHWH's law, you would not be speaking against me as a law keeper seeing how you would be a law keeper yourself. So since you did speak against my law keeping, I assumed you were not a law keeper. If I am wrong about you, then please correct me by telling me how you view the law and whether or not you desire to obey it.You don't know me at all. How can you make such personal pronouncements of judgments. I was speaking to you in general terms that apply to all Christians and you turn around and launch specific accusations at me.
Where did you get the notion, for example, that I do not desire to obey His law?
Perhaps to the intent of the heart and not the outward letter or outward performance. Point?
I think you completely misunderstood my point. My point was as Christians even our best EFFORTS at law keeping fall woefully short. We cannot rely on that which is imperfect (our law keeping), but must entrust our lives and hope in the One who perfectly kept the law in our stead.Since you judged me as not keeping the law and of sinning, I assumed you do not keep the law either. If you desired to obey YHWH's law, you would not be speaking against me as a law keeper seeing how you would be a law keeper yourself. So since you did speak against my law keeping, I assumed you were not a law keeper. If I am wrong about you, then please correct me by telling me how you view the law and whether or not you desire to obey it.
Right. I'm just not sure if you are saying all this in agreement or as a challenge.For believer intent of the law is part of the new have in mind we receive when born-again.
There are a lot of fakers in the world when it comes to actions.
I do not "rely" on my law keeping for anything. I simply endeavor to obey because I love my Heavenly Father and my neighbor. Yeshua did not keep the law in our stead. He took its penalty in our stead. We are expected to obey the law so that we do not sin. If you think we do not have to obey the law because Yeshua obeyed for us, you are grossly mistaken. Obedience to the law is a natural fruit of our salvation and stems from love.I think you completely misunderstood my point. My point was as Christians even our best EFFORTS at law keeping fall woefully short. We cannot rely on that which is imperfect (our law keeping), but must entrust our lives and hope in the One who perfectly kept the law in our stead.
Right. I'm just not sure if you are saying all this in agreement or as a challenge.
(Rom 5:19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.Yeshua did not keep the law in our stead. He took its penalty in our stead.
We sin because of our old sinful flesh/ old nature, not because fail to obey the law. IOW we sin because by our old nature we are sinners. Attempting to keep the law won't prevent us from sinning.We are expected to obey the law so that we do not sin.
We obey the law insofar as we live according to our new nature/ (new man).If you think we do not have to obey the law because Yeshua obeyed for us, you are grossly mistaken.
True, yet that obedience falls woefully short as we fail to love God with all our heart mind and soul and our nighbors as ourselves.Obedience to the law is a natural fruit of our salvation and stems from love.
I agree that legalism nullifies grace, but obedience to YHWH's laws out of love for Him does NOT nullify grace. It is a fruit of the grace and salvation we received through faith in Yeshua.We are to look at the intent of the law and keep it in our hearts and minds and spirits. But the second it turn it into a letter of the law legal requirement for salvation it becomes a death sentence because no one can do that.
Legalism nullifies grace.
(Rom 5:19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Yes, the old nature is too weak to obey the law, but the new nature is not as long as we allow the Holy Spirit to lead us to obey it as per Ezekiel 36:26-27. However, if we fight against the Holy Spirit's leading by saying things like "the law is abolished", "the law is bondage", "the law no longer applies to believers", "the Sabbath is now Sunday", "we can eat whatever we want", etc., then we will continue to sin daily.We sin because of our old sinful flesh/ old nature, not because fail to obey the law. IOW we sin because by our old nature we are sinners. Attempting to keep the law won't prevent us from sinning.
Correct. The old man refuses to obey Torah and the new man does not unless he fights against the Holy Spirit's leading as per Ezekiel 36.We obey the law insofar as we live according to our new nature/ (new man).
The more we walk in the Spirit, the less we will fail.True, yet that obedience falls woefully short as we fail to love God with all our heart mind and soul and our nighbors as ourselves.
I agree that legalism nullifies grace, but obedience to YHWH's laws out of love for Him does NOT nullify grace. It is a fruit of the grace and salvation we received through faith in Yeshua.
Label it whatever you want. It still results in obeying YHWH's laws which include the 7th day Sabbath, the dietary laws, and the Feast Days.Then it is an act of love, not law.