The Law of the Spirit of Life

[gadar perets]

These things are self-evident. If one is in Christ who was slain before the foundation of the world, then sin was also before the foundation of the world, or God is unjust, having slain Christ before any were guilty. But if you will deny the one, surely it is you who have questioned God.

Sin did not exist before the foundation of the world. Only the foreknowledge that sin would eventually come to be is what existed. The same is true of Messiah not being slain even before he was slain. He was only slain in the foreknowledge of YHWH.

But I do not question Him, but take Him to mean that when He says that He created man in His own image, that it is an image, and that just like the world, it is passing away, while the actual substance of all things is in God, and only manifest in the image that He has "created", which He refers to as a "shadow", as a revealing or revelation. These things are clear to me, not because it is my philosophy, or even that I merely "believe" them to be true, but because I know it by revelation - which is the promise of Christ unto all truth.

I don't question Him either. I question your interpretation of Scripture. Man is not an "image". He is a literal being created in YHWH's image. Nor is man a "shadow". He is the actual substance of what YHWH created. Man is not a shadow that points to some reality, but their are shadows that point to man as the reality.

No, you have Paul (for one) contradicting himself, which is not true. One cannot be a new creation in Christ and it no longer be them who lives, but Christ who lives in them...and still be that old man of sin who was without Christ - that is, unless you want also to claim that Christ will and does leave and forsake those to whom He has come.

Paul taught us that there is a war taking place in every believer to one degree or another (Galatians 5:16-25). Some BELIEVERS allow their flesh to have its way more often than the Spirit having its way, others allow the Spirit to have its way more than the flesh. I know of no believers other than Yeshua that never allow the flesh a victory. We ALL sin including you, Paul, James, Peter, etc. The ideal is to be sinless, but no one has reached that spiritual level. Do you know of any?

Let your nay be nay, and your yeah be yeah - a man is a new creation or he is not. If ones life is made new by the spirit of God, that spirit cannot and does not sin. Have you not read and acknowledged this from John, as the truth from God?

Was Paul a believer and a new creation when he sinned by speaking evil of the high priest in Acts 23? Even believers sin. Even the greatest believer in Scripture, Paul, was not sinless.

John was referring to practicing sin. He was not saying a believer cannot sin.

 

[ScottA]

Sin did not exist before the foundation of the world. Only the foreknowledge that sin would eventually come to be is what existed. The same is true of Messiah not being slain even before he was slain. He was only slain in the foreknowledge of YHWH.


I don't question Him either. I question your interpretation of Scripture. Man is not an "image". He is a literal being created in YHWH's image. Nor is man a "shadow". He is the actual substance of what YHWH created. Man is not a shadow that points to some reality, but their are shadows that point to man as the reality.


Paul taught us that there is a war taking place in every believer to one degree or another (Galatians 5:16-25). Some BELIEVERS allow their flesh to have its way more often than the Spirit having its way, others allow the Spirit to have its way more than the flesh. I know of no believers other than Yeshua that never allow the flesh a victory. We ALL sin including you, Paul, James, Peter, etc. The ideal is to be sinless, but no one has reached that spiritual level. Do you know of any?


Was Paul a believer and a new creation when he sinned by speaking evil of the high priest in Acts 23? Even believers sin. Even the greatest believer in Scripture, Paul, was not sinless.

John was referring to practicing sin. He was not saying a believer cannot sin.

You are somehow missing that one who is One with God in the spirit, cannot sin any more than God can sin - because the two are One. And by not taking this truth to heart, you allow a little sin to remain. On this, we disagree. I agree with John. Nonetheless, if the spirit of God is in a man, He does not sin.

1 John 3:6
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

 

[gadar perets]

You are somehow missing that one who is One with God in the spirit, cannot sin any more than God can sin - because the two are One. And by not taking this truth to heart, you allow a little sin to remain. On this, we disagree. I agree with John. Nonetheless, if the spirit of God is in a man, He does not sin.

1 John 3:6
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

I don't have time right now to address this fully. I will just give two points.

1) If your view is correct, then how is it that both Peter and Paul sinned? Were they not "One with God in the spirit"?
2) I do not "allow a little sin to remain". I, as John, understand that it is still possible for a believer to sin.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
​

These verses are addressed to believers who are in Messiah Yeshua. If we sin as believers, we have Yeshua to advocate for us. We have no need of an advocate if we cannot/do not sin. We are to pray for brothers (fellow believers) who sin. How can they sin if it is impossible to do so?

 

[gadar perets]

You are somehow missing that one who is One with God in the spirit, cannot sin any more than God can sin - because the two are One. And by not taking this truth to heart, you allow a little sin to remain. On this, we disagree. I agree with John. Nonetheless, if the spirit of God is in a man, He does not sin.

Here is Spurgeon's commentary which is how I understand it.

"Whosoever abideth in Christ sinneth not." Now we are sure that cannot mean that he does not sin at all, but it means that sins not habitually, he sins not designedly, he sins not finally, so as to perish. The Bible often calls a man righteous; but that does not mean that he is perfectly righteous. It calls a man a sinner, but it does not imply that he may not have done some good deeds in his life; it means that that is the man's general character. So with the man who abides in Christ: his general character is not that he is a sinner, but that he is a saint-he sinneth not openly wilfully before men. In his own heart, he has much to confess, but his life before his fellow creatures is such a one that it can be said of him: "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not; but whosoever sinneth [the sins of this world. in which the multitude indulge] hath not seen him, neither known him."
​

If your view is correct, then any believer who commits the slightest sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8).

Also, take note of verse 4;

1 John 3:4 Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
​

John is defining what he means by sin. John knew full well that the law is still in effect, as did Paul (Romans 3:31). To break it is to sin. To keep it is to not sin. It would behoove every child of YHWH and believer in Messiah Yeshua to learn what the law says and obey it through faith in the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ScottA]

Here is Spurgeon's commentary which is how I understand it.

"Whosoever abideth in Christ sinneth not." Now we are sure that cannot mean that he does not sin at all, but it means that sins not habitually, he sins not designedly, he sins not finally, so as to perish. The Bible often calls a man righteous; but that does not mean that he is perfectly righteous. It calls a man a sinner, but it does not imply that he may not have done some good deeds in his life; it means that that is the man's general character. So with the man who abides in Christ: his general character is not that he is a sinner, but that he is a saint-he sinneth not openly wilfully before men. In his own heart, he has much to confess, but his life before his fellow creatures is such a one that it can be said of him: "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not; but whosoever sinneth [the sins of this world. in which the multitude indulge] hath not seen him, neither known him."
​

If your view is correct, then any believer who commits the slightest sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8).

Also, take note of verse 4;

1 John 3:4 Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
​

John is defining what he means by sin. John knew full well that the law is still in effect, as did Paul (Romans 3:31). To break it is to sin. To keep it is to not sin. It would behoove every child of YHWH and believer in Messiah Yeshua to learn what the law says and obey it through faith in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Now we're getting somewhere!

I don't care to read about the teachings of men if they support untruth. But, your comment about the slightest sin being of the devil, is absolutely true. Just ask Peter why he was rebuked by Jesus, saying "Get behind me Satan."

A person either walks in darkness or in the light, and if in the light, then He does not sin. But as John made clear, "Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." ...and you either believe that and reconcile it...or you don't - but that is the word of the Lord.

 

[gadar perets]

Now we're getting somewhere!

I don't care to read about the teachings of men if they support untruth. But, your comment about the slightest sin being of the devil, is absolutely true. Just ask Peter why he was rebuked by Jesus, saying "Get behind me Satan."

You misquoted me. I did not say the "sin was of the devil", but the "believer who commits the slightest sin is of the devil". Therefore, your view clearly says "Paul is of the devil" and "Peter is of the devil" since they both sinned while being believers in Messiah. Yeshua was not saying Peter was Satan. He was addressing Satan himself who was using Peter to thwart the plan of salvation.

A person either walks in darkness or in the light, and if in the light, then He does not sin.

John also made it clear in 1 John 1:8 that believers DO SIN. He used the present tense (have), not the past tense (had) referring to sin.

1 John 1:8 If we (believers including John) say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
​

The only one saying we have no sin is you.

But as John made clear, "Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." ...and you either believe that and reconcile it...or you don't - but that is the word of the Lord.

I have reconciled it with what the rest of the NT says about sin. You have yet to reconcile your view with the fact that both Paul and Peter sinned. Do you accuse them of walking in darkness, being of the devil and of not knowing Yeshua? Please reconcile their sins with your view in your next post.

 

[ScottA]

You misquoted me. I did not say the "sin was of the devil", but the "believer who commits the slightest sin is of the devil". Therefore, your view clearly says "Paul is of the devil" and "Peter is of the devil" since they both sinned while being believers in Messiah. Yeshua was not saying Peter was Satan. He was addressing Satan himself who was using Peter to thwart the plan of salvation.

Just so we are clear, here is what you said:

If your view is correct, then any believer who commits the slightest sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8).

So...you think that Jesus was lying when He called Peter Satan, or when He called the descendants of Abraham the devil's children?

You think too much of yourself.

Now, I tell you the truth, and you do not believe.

John also made it clear in 1 John 1:8 that believers DO SIN. He used the present tense (have), not the past tense (had) referring to sin.

1 John 1:8 If we (believers including John) say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
The only one saying we have no sin is you.

You make it sound like John was preaching to the choir in heaven. But, no, he was not. He was preaching to the fallen, explaining a truth the world had not know before. The world was still in darkness - of course men sinned, they were no different than Peter or Judas, and only a very few had anything close to a complete understanding. At best, even the apostles would not have known the full implication of what the Holy Spirit spoke through them.

But when the dust settled and more than a few were filled with the Holy Spirit those who now hear the full account have no excuse, and the word of truth must be divided between what was then written to the unsaved and the saved. Both truths were written, but both were not to the saved, but to all - both to the wheat and to the tares, just as it is today.

I have reconciled it with what the rest of the NT says about sin. You have yet to reconcile your view with the fact that both Paul and Peter sinned. Do you accuse them of walking in darkness, being of the devil and of not knowing Yeshua? Please reconcile their sins with your view in your next post.

No, you have mixed what should not be mixed, for "what communion has light with darkness?"

As for Peter and Paul, I have reminded you of what Jesus said to Peter...and now you continue to deny it. All the while, it is written, and I should not have had to say anything - but when I quote it, you reject it from me also.

 

[gadar perets]

You think too much of yourself.

Here it comes. You can't refute my position so you turn the discussion personal. I humble myself by acknowledging my sins and confessing them. It is you that thinks too much of himself by claiming to be sinless.

As for Peter and Paul, I have reminded you of what Jesus said to Peter...and now you continue to deny it. All the while, it is written, and I should not have had to say anything - but when I quote it, you reject it from me also.

I do not deny what Yeshua said. I deny your interpretation of his words. Also, Peter was not a "born again" believer at that time. He did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is not that incident that I was referring to when I said Peter sinned, but to his hypocrisy spoken of in Galatians 2:11-14.

You have yet to address my position and answer my question concerning Paul and Peter after they became baptized, Spirit filled believers. Please address their sins. Do you accuse them of walking in darkness, being of the devil and of not knowing Yeshua? If not, then harmonize your view with their sins.

 

[ScottA]

Here it comes. You can't refute my position so you turn the discussion personal. I humble myself by acknowledging my sins and confessing them. It is you that thinks too much of himself by claiming to be sinless.


I do not deny what Yeshua said. I deny your interpretation of his words. Also, Peter was not a "born again" believer at that time. He did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is not that incident that I was referring to when I said Peter sinned, but to his hypocrisy spoken of in Galatians 2:11-14.

You have yet to address my position and answer my question concerning Paul and Peter after they became baptized, Spirit filled believers. Please address their sins. Do you accuse them of walking in darkness, being of the devil and of not knowing Yeshua? If not, then harmonize your view with their sins.

You are still mixing things up that should not be mixed. That is the only thing that applies to you personally, otherwise my point was not personal but an answer to your "any believer" comment, that you had rather given people too much credit for being saved while still continuing in sin, which the scriptures do not allow for. But you not only allow for it, you defend it, which is not me making things personal about you, but you about yourself.

But as I said, finally we are getting somewhere, for you now admit that for Peter to be an instrument of Satan, means he was not born again. Which, if this is the standard that you apply to him and admit, will you now continue in a double standard and call sin something that someone who is born again will do? Do you not see that by such a double standard that you are doing exactly what Paul called Peter on (having a hypocritical double standard with regard to the gentiles)? I now call you on the same hypocrisy, because you also have a double standard for the old man and for the new.

As for answering your question, you have not been ready to discuss it. How can one who has allowed sin into the kingdom discuss what is holy? I could answer, but you have already held up sin in defense of itself. Such a discussion is not permitted.

 

[gadar perets]

But as I said, finally we are getting somewhere, for you now admit that for Peter to be an instrument of Satan, means he was not born again. Which, if this is the standard that you apply to him and admit, will you now continue in a double standard and call sin something that someone who is born again will do?

You keep giving me the same line of thinking, but you are refusing to address the NT examples that disprove your view. I say sin is something that a born again believer will do because that is what we see Paul and Peter did. They were both born again believers that sinned. Therefore, it is possible for a born again believer to sin. This is so simple to understand, but you shut your eyes to those examples and refuse to address them.

As for answering your question, you have not been ready to discuss it. How can one who has allowed sin into the kingdom discuss what is holy? I could answer, but you have already held up sin in defense of itself. Such a discussion is not permitted.

I do not uphold sin. I simply point out NT examples of born again Apostles committing sin. Sin is to be rid from our lives whenever it raises its ugly head, but even the greatest Apostles fell prey to it. It was not their lifestyle to commit sin, but it happens upon occasion, even to born again believers. That is why we have an advocate in Yeshua. For you to say you are sinless, having never sinned since becoming born again, is a lie from Satan. You are sadly deceived. And now you say such a discussion is not permitted. How convenient.

 

[gadar perets]

Is there anyone else on this forum that cares to weigh in with your view? How about you Emenke? Can a born again believer still sin?

 

[ScottA]

You keep giving me the same line of thinking, but you are refusing to address the NT examples that disprove your view. I say sin is something that a born again believer will do because that is what we see Paul and Peter did. They were both born again believers that sinned. Therefore, it is possible for a born again believer to sin. This is so simple to understand, but you shut your eyes to those examples and refuse to address them.

One thing at a time then.

No...you cannot have the scriptures about Paul and Peter contradicting those from John. But here you would have one of them wrong, and me as well, because I say the scriptures do not show any conflict, and you simply do not understand, therefore you claim one against the other(s) saying that what is impossible, is possible.

What you are seeing is not examples of the born again sinning. It is no longer they who live, but Christ who lives in them. To even say that the spirit of God could sin is blasphemy. You don't know what you are looking at.

 

[ScottA]

I do not uphold sin. I simply point out NT examples of born again Apostles committing sin. Sin is to be rid from our lives whenever it raises its ugly head, but even the greatest Apostles fell prey to it. It was not their lifestyle to commit sin, but it happens upon occasion, even to born again believers. That is why we have an advocate in Yeshua. For you to say you are sinless, having never sinned since becoming born again, is a lie from Satan. You are sadly deceived. And now you say such a discussion is not permitted. How convenient.

One is an advocate and one is an accuser. Which one are you, that you would accuse those who are One with God of sin?

 

[gadar perets]

One thing at a time then.

No...you cannot have the scriptures about Paul and Peter contradicting those from John. But here you would have one of them wrong, and me as well, because I say the scriptures do not show any conflict, and you simply do not understand, therefore you claim one against the other(s) saying that what is impossible, is possible.

The Scriptures I use do not contradict John. They contradict YOUR interpretation of John.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.​

A SUPERFICIAL reading of this verse clearly states what you believe; the believer cannot sin. The question is, "Is that the correct understanding of what John meant." Here is another example to help you see what you are doing.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
​

A SUPERFICIAL reading of this verse clearly states that the believer/disciple of Messiah MUST hate his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also. Do you hate those people in your life? If not, then you are disobeying Yeshua and are not a true disciple. Of course, I am interpreting the verse incorrectly to show you that you are doing the same thing to 1 John 3:6. Your rigid, literal interpretation flies in the face of the reality we see throughout the NT.

​

What you are seeing is not examples of the born again sinning. It is no longer they who live, but Christ who lives in them. To even say that the spirit of God could sin is blasphemy. You don't know what you are looking at.

I am not saying the Spirit of God sinned. We are flesh with the Spirit indwelling. The flesh and the Spirit are at war with each other (Galatians 5:17). The closer we draw to YHWH and Yeshua, the more the Spirit will have its way with us and the less we will sin. When we fail to walk in the Spirit, the flesh wins and we sin. We are taught that we can grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30). This refers to believers doing the grieving by SINNING. Why would Paul write that if it was not possible for a believer to sin? We don't grieve the Holy Spirit by doing good, but by doing bad.

 

[ScottA]

The Scriptures I use do not contradict John. They contradict YOUR interpretation of John.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.​

A SUPERFICIAL reading of this verse clearly states what you believe; the believer cannot sin. The question is, "Is that the correct understanding of what John meant." Here is another example to help you see what you are doing.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
​

A SUPERFICIAL reading of this verse clearly states that the believer/disciple of Messiah MUST hate his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also. Do you hate those people in your life? If not, then you are disobeying Yeshua and are not a true disciple. Of course, I am interpreting the verse incorrectly to show you that you are doing the same thing to 1 John 3:6. Your rigid, literal interpretation flies in the face of the reality we see throughout the NT.

​

I am not saying the Spirit of God sinned. We are flesh with the Spirit indwelling. The flesh and the Spirit are at war with each other (Galatians 5:17). The closer we draw to YHWH and Yeshua, the more the Spirit will have its way with us and the less we will sin. When we fail to walk in the Spirit, the flesh wins and we sin. We are taught that we can grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30). This refers to believers doing the grieving by SINNING. Why would Paul write that if it was not possible for a believer to sin? We don't grieve the Holy Spirit by doing good, but by doing bad.

Sorry, but you are attempting to "save your life" and are "loosing" it.

And this you do because you do not hate in the way Jesus meant, because you have not understood. Instead, you have dismissed it in unbelief. But this I do not say because I interpret the words "literally", but rather with certainty and finality, and not by interpretation, but by the spirit of God.

 

[gadar perets]

Sorry, but you are attempting to "save your life" and are "loosing" it.

And this you do because you do not hate in the way Jesus meant, because you have not understood. Instead, you have dismissed it in unbelief. But this I do not say because I interpret the words "literally", but rather with certainty and finality, and not by interpretation, but by the spirit of God.

Fine. You go your way and pretend to be sinless and I'll go my way and confess and repent if I sin.

 

[ScottA]

Fine. You go your way and pretend to be sinless and I'll go my way and confess and repent if I sin.

Let your first confession, therefore, be that you do not believe that in the presence of God there is no sin, that if one is in Christ and Christ in Him, Christ has no power over sin, that it is not finished.

 

[ScottA]

@gadar perets

Now that we have walked through these defining points I would like to clear the air. Our difference is simply perspective.

In the world we see things much as you have described, and it is not wrong of you to describe things as you have. But as we go on to all truth our perspective should take on that of Christ's and of the Father, which is timeless. And that is the problem. The perspective that time presents is contrary to God. In other words, by the very definition of God by name, there is no progression, no process as it were, to "I am." God, and His greater truth, which we seek and aspire to attain...simply is. So when Jesus said "today" is the day of salvation and "it is finished", and a host of other passages refer to a multitude of events in present tense...it is because God has referred to them in that greater timeless truth.

So, when I argue from that perspective saying as the scriptures also say, that one who is in Christ is a new creation, that all things have been made new, and that one does not sin...I do so from that greater perspective.

Knowledge has been increased. Much like one would understand the images of an MRI, the greater timeless truth of God - in His greater reality, is then like a snapshot made up of a multitude of individual images, as if there were a progression or timeline, where there is none. Another analogy is the dividing of light (God) into different waves or colors. In this analogy, the light can be observed separately, but is one, and their division could be explained incrementally as God has done through the medium of time...but it would be wrong to consider their individual revelation as divided, when in God's greater reality, they are One.

Thus, living in the world we can hold to yesterday, today, and forever, or we can come around to "I am." God has made it possible to do both, and that is the reason for our disagreement. But in the end, it was always One. Therefor do not confuse the mediums of time and revelation with the timeless truth of God, for "It is finished." And all that is being witnessed in the world, is simply what is written of it - word images, that are One.

 

[gadar perets]

@gadar perets
So, when I argue from that perspective saying as the scriptures also say, that one who is in Christ is a new creation, that all things have been made new, and that one does not sin...I do so from that greater perspective.

I believe we are new creatures in Messiah by faith, but not yet literally. The same is true of us being figuratively born again and figuratively raised up with Messiah and seated in heavenly places. It is by faith, but will become a reality when we are literally resurrected unto eternal life. It is spoken of in the present tense because of its certainty of coming to pass for those that live by faith. In the meantime, we must walk in the Spirit, obeying every command of YHWH and Yeshua so that we do not grieve the Holy Spirit by our sins.

Also, it is clear to me that the NT shows such new creatures can sin.

2Co_12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.
Eph_4:26 Be you angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Heb_12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.
Heb_12:4 You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Jas_2:9 But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas_4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.
Jas_5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
1Pe_4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Yeshua Messiah the righteous:
1Jn_5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.​

Thus, living in the world we can hold to yesterday, today, and forever, or we can come around to "I am." God has made it possible to do both, and that is the reason for our disagreement. But in the end, it was always One. Therefor do not confuse the mediums of time and revelation with the timeless truth of God, for "It is finished." And all that is being witnessed in the world, is simply what is written of it - word images, that are One.

"It is finished" pertains to the work that Messiah was to do in the flesh up until his death. It is not all encompassing as Revelation 10:7 shows;

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
​

It wasn't finished when Yeshua died and uttered those words. More was yet to come including his resurrection and heavenly ministry.

 

[ScottA]

I believe we are new creatures in Messiah by faith, but not yet literally. The same is true of us being figuratively born again and figuratively raised up with Messiah and seated in heavenly places. It is by faith, but will become a reality when we are literally resurrected unto eternal life. It is spoken of in the present tense because of its certainty of coming to pass for those that live by faith. In the meantime, we must walk in the Spirit, obeying every command of YHWH and Yeshua so that we do not grieve the Holy Spirit by our sins.

Also, it is clear to me that the NT shows such new creatures can sin.

2Co_12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.
Eph_4:26 Be you angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Heb_12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.
Heb_12:4 You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Jas_2:9 But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas_4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.
Jas_5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
1Pe_4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Yeshua Messiah the righteous:
1Jn_5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.​

"It is finished" pertains to the work that Messiah was to do in the flesh up until his death. It is not all encompassing as Revelation 10:7 shows;

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
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It wasn't finished when Yeshua died and uttered those words. More was yet to come including his resurrection and heavenly ministry.

That of course is the common understanding. But like the common understanding of Christ's first coming...it is far from accurate.

The problem is that time is an illusion (even scientifically), a created image of what is otherwise timeless in God. If many need to wait unto the end to know this truth, then so be it. Meanwhile the promise of Christ is that we will be lead into all truth - not as it has always been believed, but as it has actually always been. I do hope you will not demand to be unchangeable as all truth is revealed in this process.

Speaking of process, there is no "finish" to the mystery of God in the eternal realm of God, nor any beginning. Now I realize that the very idea is foreign to earth dwelling mankind, but the knowledge of men, is not what we are talking about. No, all that is "finished" in the "future" is limited to all truth being revealed to men "each in his own order." But that speaks only of when that light comes on for each individual - not when what is true became true. Let us be clear - God was never untrue. Therefore, what we are talking about is the darkness of men coming into the light - which is personal, and has nothing to do with when something with God is true, but only with the individual. So, by the renewing of our mind, we have need to change from our self-centered worldly outlook, to a God-centered eternal outlook and understanding. Thus, if we continue to think as men and continue to see even the world in terms of yesterday, today, and [someday] forever, then we will not see forever until [someday]. But that is not how God and eternity works, or else Jesus would not have spoke of those who [were] "entering in."